Are you looking to convince your DM? try reaching out to sage advice.
Are you a DM looking for guidance? It sounds like you have made up your mind.
Are you looking for Community Opinions? you have a few at the start that agree with you and a couple that don't.
RAW I say you are not any official race, Personal ruling I think its fun to let you count as one race of your choice.
I am a DM.
Custom Lineage is an official rule that I plan to implement heavily, according to the Rules-As-Written and the Rules-As-Intended.
I need WotC to clarify what the official rule is.
As pointed out to you, Sage Advice would the be the outlet for an official WotC ruling, not the D&D Beyond General Discussion forum. I think you can email them directly, or pose your question in a concise tweet, maybe theirs a channel of Facebook and/or Instagram. Here, you're just going to get opinions of the rule and your reading of the rule.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Per RAW as I read it, Custom Lineage is your the race. Choosing to have your character look like an Elf has no mechanical bearing on the rules.
It doesnt matter what the character looks like.
What matters is if the Elf is "kin".
Mechanically that doesn't matter. Your race is Custom Lineage not Elf. There are no rules for "Kin"
Technically, Custom Lineage isnt a "race". Rather, it is a legal method for a player to create a new race.
For examples. If the player wants their character to be a mechanical, Renaissance-esque "automaton", then the race is "automaton".
If the player wants their character to be a product of a Wizard family who uses transmutation magic to improve their children, then the race is "human".
"Race" depends on the character concept. The character sheet will say "Automaton Fighter" or "Human Wizard", or so on, when the player legally customizes a new race or a new version of a race.
What you call it is irrelevant. You can make a character using the rules for a Dwarf and call it an Elf if you like, however you still have the follow the rules associated with Dwarf.
Custom Lineage is a rule set for a race, just like Dwarf, Elf and Human.
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races -> by you post #24 that would translate to "Instead of choosing Human you pick Human"
Instead of choosing the human that the game provides, you create your own version of a human.
Effectively, the variant human is itself a custom lineage. It chooses the skill instead of the darkvision. Its +1 +1 is equivalent to the +2. Then there is the choice of feat.
The difference is, the player can use the custom lineage method to create a new kind of "human" that has a +2 ability score improvement − if that is the character concept that the player wants to express mechanically.
Per RAW as I read it, Custom Lineage is your the race. Choosing to have your character look like an Elf has no mechanical bearing on the rules.
It doesnt matter what the character looks like.
What matters is if the Elf is "kin".
Mechanically that doesn't matter. Your race is Custom Lineage not Elf. There are no rules for "Kin"
Technically, Custom Lineage isnt a "race". Rather, it is a legal method for a player to create a new race.
For examples. If the player wants their character to be a mechanical, Renaissance-esque "automaton", then the race is "automaton".
If the player wants their character to be a product of a Wizard family who uses transmutation magic to improve their children, then the race is "human".
"Race" depends on the character concept. The character sheet will say "Automaton Fighter" or "Human Wizard", or so on, when the player legally customizes a new race or a new version of a race.
Being a legal method to create a new race doesn’t imply, let alone assert explicitly, that it’s a legal method to create a new race that’s functionally different from another one, while still counting as the same for specific purposes.
Don’t get me wrong, you can absolutely do this at your table. I don’t believe that’s in accordance with RAW or even RAI, however.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
it’s a legal method to create a new race that’s functionally different from another one, while still counting as the same for specific purposes.
If that is the kind of race that the player wants to create, then the player has "full control" to create this kind of race.
At your table. No issue with that. Again, I don’t think the RAW or RAI agrees. This “full control” is obviously and undeniably limited, since only the listed options are available - you can’t choose not to be humanoid, for one, or to have a different size from small or medium. Counting as a member of another race for some or all purposes is not among the listed possibilities.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Tashas introduces new technical terms into the Rules As Written.
The "lineage" refers to an aspect of the characters own "origin".
The "kin" inferably refers to other characters who share the same lineage.
"Origin" refers to the six ability scores and to race, class, and background.
"Lineage" relates to the aspect of "race".
Custom Lineage is a method that empowers the player to design a new race or to rethink the concept of a race. Lineage can go beyond race, such as creating a human family of psychics, where each seventh child inherits the gift. Or whatever the player the wants.
As such, a "race" is a subset of "lineage". There are many different kinds of "lineage" that are now available to the player. Choosing a particular race is only one of these choices.
Yet, "origin" lists the aspect of "race".
Somewhat paradoxically, "lineage" is a method that can make "race" mean something else besides "race". Lineage expands the possibilities that can count as a race. Ultimately, lineage might be part of an overall design goal to move D&D away from the reallife problematic term "race".
It seems to me, a player can use Custom Lineage to create a new race, or a new subrace, or a variant of one of the official D&D races.
But mostly, the player can go beyond the concept of a race, to create a different kind of "origin story" that explains the capabilities of a character, in a way that reminds me of a superhero origin story. Some superheroes get powers from their race (like Superman or Thor), while other superheroes are members of the human race but have powers because of a mutation that future children may or may not inherit (like X-Men), while yet other superheroes get bitten by a radioactive spider (like Spiderman).
The Custom Lineage makes the technical term "race" mean something more like a superhero origin story, able to incorporate various character concepts. And in the magical worlds of D&D, this expansion of possibilities feels appropriate.
You can play your games using these rules if you like. I hope you and your players enjoy themselves.
However, after rereading the information on pages 7 and 8 that covers Origins, I can't find any of the information you provided other than Ability Scores, Race, Class and Background help paint a picture of your character's origin. The rest does not seem to appear there. If I am missing something, please provide the relevant page numbers.
You can play your games using these rules if you like. I hope you and your players enjoy themselves.
However, after rereading the information on pages 7 and 8 that covers Origins, I can't find any of the information you provided other than Ability Scores, Race, Class and Background help paint a picture of your character's origin. The rest does not seem to appear there. If I am missing something, please provide the relevant page numbers.
I am reading the same rules you are reading. The rules are conflictive. I am resolving these conflicts in consistent way.
The rules for Custom Lineage say, "full control over origin". This provokes the player to ask what does "origin" mean. Earlier, in the same section, which is called Customizing Your Origin, it says "origin" includes "ability scores, race, class, and background".
(Possibly, Alignment, Ideal and Flaw, and a Theros Supernatural Gift, would also count as aspects of a characters "origin"?)
In any case, Customizing Your Origin only discusses changes to a race, while the Custom Lineage box specifically relates to race (and not to class or background).
• "Instead of choosing one of the game's races, you can use the following traits to represent your character's lineage, thus giving you full control over how your character's origin shaped them."
This sentence has a perplexing shift in technical terms. Instead of a "race", you can have a "lineage" that controls the "origin". While the shift in terminology is jarring, it seems intentional, whose purpose is to allow other possibilities, even beyond the concept of a "race". This is were "full control" is significant, to allow the player to rethink the origin's aspect of "race", if that is what the player wants.
I find significant, the rules arent called "Custom Race", where the player only has permission to create a new race (or a variant of a race). Instead, the rules are called "Custom Lineage", which appears to include the possibility of character concepts that can go beyond "race". Mechanically, the lineage is limited by whatever feats the player is allowed to choose from. But flavorwise, the player can innovate various explanations for HOW the character acquired this feat. Perhaps the player wants the concept of race, so that the character got the feat because the character is the member of a race whose members exhibit this trait. Or perhaps there is some other origin story. Perhaps the character is a human who somehow acquires Telekinetic abilities along with a superior (+2) Intelligence. If a feat becomes available in the future, that allows an alternate beast form, the "lineage" might be a human who was bitten by a werewolf. To open the character concept to diverse possibilities for an origin, is what makes a "lineage" feel more like a superhero origin story to me. The origin can be a race, but alternatively it can also be something that has nothing to do with a race if that is what the player wants. Various origins are possible, depending on the character, and the player has full control over this origin story.
"Instead of choosing one of the game's races, you can use the following traits to represent your character's lineage, thus giving you full control over how your character's origin shaped them."
RAW, I would interpret that as Custom Lineage is its own thing and wholly separate from an existing game's race, thus disqualifying it from being able to take racial feats specific to the game's race. It does not say it is allowing you to customize an existing race and allowing it to qualify for their racial feat. And it does not mention ignoring the qualifications of racial feats.
If I am running my own personal game, I am pretty loose with the rules and I generally handwave restrictions if my players find certain restrictions unfun. But if my players want a strict interpretation of the rules, or if I need to GM in a more "official"/"professional" way, then I would disallow characters of Custom Lineage taking racial feats. I think it is better to err on the stricter and more conservative side of the rules, where if a rule does not explicitly say you can do it, then you cannot do it.
In any case, Customizing Your Origin only discusses changes to a race, while the Custom Lineage box specifically relates to race (and not to class or background)
Customizing your Origin is the all of Chapter 1, which includes Class options. As you stated, Custom Lineage specifically relates to race as does the rest of the information on pages 7 and 8.
I want to add this because I feel it needs to be very clear. I support you playing it how you want to play it. There is nothing wrong about it. We just disagree on whether it is RAW.
If you or any other DM wants to allow characters with a Custom Lineage to select race exclusive Feats, then go for it. Those characters would be giving up a lot just to pick up a Feat at 1st level. I really don't think it is worth while personally, but that does not mean that others can't feel differently about it.
Are you looking to convince your DM? try reaching out to sage advice.
Are you a DM looking for guidance? It sounds like you have made up your mind.
Are you looking for Community Opinions? you have a few at the start that agree with you and a couple that don't.
RAW I say you are not any official race, Personal ruling I think its fun to let you count as one race of your choice.
I am a DM.
Custom Lineage is an official rule that I plan to implement heavily, according to the Rules-As-Written and the Rules-As-Intended.
I need WotC to clarify what the official rule is.
Your first sentence means that you should change the word need in the last sentence to like. This is a game of make believe. D&D rules are and only ever have been guidelines. As DM, it's upon you to determine the level of your make believe. Make believe that the rule that makes most sense to you is what's best for your table. If they don't release official rules do you not use it, despite wanting to heavily use it in your game? That makes no sense.
This thread is a technical discussion about the Rules As Written. Everyone agrees that the DM has "Rule Zero" to override any rule that feels less useful or less fun to a particular table. At the same time, it is a fallacy to say that Rule Zero means that less useful or less clear Rules As Written dont need updates or clarifications.
Many DMs prefer to play according to the Rules As Written. I prefer to do so. Heh, I think of Rule Zero as the nuclear option, a last resort if the Rules As Written seem unworkable for a particular setting concept or play style.
In the spirit of myself and other forumers, enjoy the game in any way you and your players wish.
RAW, I would interpret that as Custom Lineage is its own thing and wholly separate from an existing game's race, thus disqualifying it from being able to take racial feats specific to the game's race. It does not say it is allowing you to customize an existing race and allowing it to qualify for their racial feat. And it does not mention ignoring the qualifications of racial feats.
I agree "Custom Lineage" is its own thing. However, I disagree it is "wholly separate" from race.
Note, the technical term "race" is being used to mean two different things. • Race as an origin category, alongside other origin categories of ability scores, class, and background. • Race as a particular kind of race, such as elf, dwarf, and dragonborn.
There is a difference in meaning because Custom Lineage allows the player to control the origin-race category. The player can decide to create a new race to fill the slot for the race category. But the player can even fill the race category with something that is not a race.
Ultimately, it appears the origin categories are: • ability scores • lineage (!) • class • background
Then, a character can have a race as the lineage, or have something else as the lineage.
Some forumers view "lineage" as a subset of race, so that lineage itself is its own kind of official weird miscellaneous race, alongside other official races like elf, dwarf, and dragonborn.
However, I view lineage as the bigger category. The race is a subset of lineage. The lineage can be a race like an elf or dwarf, but the lineage can also be a non-race like a werewolf, mutant, experiment, magical ritual, or so on. Lineage is a bigger category that includes many kinds of subsets to choose from.
Custom Lineage allows the player to choose something else instead of "one of the game's races". A variant race isnt a "game's" race. For example, a variant elf isnt the "game's" elf. Thus a player can use Custom Lineage to create a variant elf. This variant elf character is still an "elf", even if not the "elf" that the game officially describes. Thus the variant elf can qualify for a feat that prerequires having "elf" as the lineage of the character.
Note, if the player wants one of the game's races to be the lineage of the character, then the player doesnt need a Custom Lineage. The Custom Lineage is for players who want to have a different kind of lineage that rethinks a game's race or creates a new race.
The spirit of the rules in Tashas is to end any unintentionally "racist" rules. The purpose of the tools in the Tashas is to empower the player to control the concept of race or even to jettison it. The goal is for the player to have a character that the reallife player can be comfortable with. The fact that Xanathars continues to have such race-based rules, seems to be an oversight, due to more attention looking at the Players Handbook. I suspect, in the future, we will never see an other feat that prerequires a race.
Despite WotC being hesitant to implement errata, I hope to see an erratum that removes the race prerequisites from the Xanathars feats, similar to the way that an erratum removed the race prequisite from the Bladesinger Wizard subclass. Thus, the future erratum would remove any confusion about the Xanathars feats.
Even so, it is possible to read the Tashas rules in a way that Custom Lineage can access the Xanathars feats now. Simply put, a variant elf isnt the game's elf, thus Custom Lineage can create it and it can qualify. Generally speaking, the ability to override official race rules appears to be the intent of the game designers who wrote the rules in Tashas.
As pointed out to you, Sage Advice would the be the outlet for an official WotC ruling, not the D&D Beyond General Discussion forum. I think you can email them directly, or pose your question in a concise tweet, maybe theirs a channel of Facebook and/or Instagram. Here, you're just going to get opinions of the rule and your reading of the rule.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It doesnt matter what the character looks like.
What matters is if the Elf is "kin".
he / him
Mechanically that doesn't matter. Your race is Custom Lineage not Elf. There are no rules for "Kin"
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Technically, Custom Lineage isnt a "race". Rather, it is a legal method for a player to create a new race.
For examples. If the player wants their character to be a mechanical, Renaissance-esque "automaton", then the race is "automaton".
If the player wants their character to be a product of a Wizard family who uses transmutation magic to improve their children, then the race is "human".
"Race" depends on the character concept. The character sheet will say "Automaton Fighter" or "Human Wizard", or so on, when the player legally customizes a new race or a new version of a race.
he / him
Instead of choosing one of the game’s races -> by you post #24 that would translate to "Instead of choosing Human you pick Human"
What you call it is irrelevant. You can make a character using the rules for a Dwarf and call it an Elf if you like, however you still have the follow the rules associated with Dwarf.
Custom Lineage is a rule set for a race, just like Dwarf, Elf and Human.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Instead of choosing the human that the game provides, you create your own version of a human.
Effectively, the variant human is itself a custom lineage. It chooses the skill instead of the darkvision. Its +1 +1 is equivalent to the +2. Then there is the choice of feat.
The difference is, the player can use the custom lineage method to create a new kind of "human" that has a +2 ability score improvement − if that is the character concept that the player wants to express mechanically.
he / him
Being a legal method to create a new race doesn’t imply, let alone assert explicitly, that it’s a legal method to create a new race that’s functionally different from another one, while still counting as the same for specific purposes.
Don’t get me wrong, you can absolutely do this at your table. I don’t believe that’s in accordance with RAW or even RAI, however.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
If that is the kind of race that the player wants to create, then the player has "full control" to create this kind of race.
he / him
That is not even what the actual quote says. You choose two words from the quote then added your own to make it say what you wanted it to say.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
At your table. No issue with that. Again, I don’t think the RAW or RAI agrees. This “full control” is obviously and undeniably limited, since only the listed options are available - you can’t choose not to be humanoid, for one, or to have a different size from small or medium. Counting as a member of another race for some or all purposes is not among the listed possibilities.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Tashas introduces new technical terms into the Rules As Written.
The "lineage" refers to an aspect of the characters own "origin".
The "kin" inferably refers to other characters who share the same lineage.
"Origin" refers to the six ability scores and to race, class, and background.
"Lineage" relates to the aspect of "race".
Custom Lineage is a method that empowers the player to design a new race or to rethink the concept of a race. Lineage can go beyond race, such as creating a human family of psychics, where each seventh child inherits the gift. Or whatever the player the wants.
As such, a "race" is a subset of "lineage". There are many different kinds of "lineage" that are now available to the player. Choosing a particular race is only one of these choices.
Yet, "origin" lists the aspect of "race".
Somewhat paradoxically, "lineage" is a method that can make "race" mean something else besides "race". Lineage expands the possibilities that can count as a race. Ultimately, lineage might be part of an overall design goal to move D&D away from the reallife problematic term "race".
It seems to me, a player can use Custom Lineage to create a new race, or a new subrace, or a variant of one of the official D&D races.
But mostly, the player can go beyond the concept of a race, to create a different kind of "origin story" that explains the capabilities of a character, in a way that reminds me of a superhero origin story. Some superheroes get powers from their race (like Superman or Thor), while other superheroes are members of the human race but have powers because of a mutation that future children may or may not inherit (like X-Men), while yet other superheroes get bitten by a radioactive spider (like Spiderman).
The Custom Lineage makes the technical term "race" mean something more like a superhero origin story, able to incorporate various character concepts. And in the magical worlds of D&D, this expansion of possibilities feels appropriate.
he / him
You can play your games using these rules if you like. I hope you and your players enjoy themselves.
However, after rereading the information on pages 7 and 8 that covers Origins, I can't find any of the information you provided other than Ability Scores, Race, Class and Background help paint a picture of your character's origin. The rest does not seem to appear there. If I am missing something, please provide the relevant page numbers.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I am reading the same rules you are reading. The rules are conflictive. I am resolving these conflicts in consistent way.
The rules for Custom Lineage say, "full control over origin". This provokes the player to ask what does "origin" mean. Earlier, in the same section, which is called Customizing Your Origin, it says "origin" includes "ability scores, race, class, and background".
(Possibly, Alignment, Ideal and Flaw, and a Theros Supernatural Gift, would also count as aspects of a characters "origin"?)
In any case, Customizing Your Origin only discusses changes to a race, while the Custom Lineage box specifically relates to race (and not to class or background).
• "Instead of choosing one of the game's races, you can use the following traits to represent your character's lineage, thus giving you full control over how your character's origin shaped them."
This sentence has a perplexing shift in technical terms. Instead of a "race", you can have a "lineage" that controls the "origin". While the shift in terminology is jarring, it seems intentional, whose purpose is to allow other possibilities, even beyond the concept of a "race". This is were "full control" is significant, to allow the player to rethink the origin's aspect of "race", if that is what the player wants.
I find significant, the rules arent called "Custom Race", where the player only has permission to create a new race (or a variant of a race). Instead, the rules are called "Custom Lineage", which appears to include the possibility of character concepts that can go beyond "race". Mechanically, the lineage is limited by whatever feats the player is allowed to choose from. But flavorwise, the player can innovate various explanations for HOW the character acquired this feat. Perhaps the player wants the concept of race, so that the character got the feat because the character is the member of a race whose members exhibit this trait. Or perhaps there is some other origin story. Perhaps the character is a human who somehow acquires Telekinetic abilities along with a superior (+2) Intelligence. If a feat becomes available in the future, that allows an alternate beast form, the "lineage" might be a human who was bitten by a werewolf. To open the character concept to diverse possibilities for an origin, is what makes a "lineage" feel more like a superhero origin story to me. The origin can be a race, but alternatively it can also be something that has nothing to do with a race if that is what the player wants. Various origins are possible, depending on the character, and the player has full control over this origin story.
he / him
RAW, I would interpret that as Custom Lineage is its own thing and wholly separate from an existing game's race, thus disqualifying it from being able to take racial feats specific to the game's race. It does not say it is allowing you to customize an existing race and allowing it to qualify for their racial feat. And it does not mention ignoring the qualifications of racial feats.
If I am running my own personal game, I am pretty loose with the rules and I generally handwave restrictions if my players find certain restrictions unfun. But if my players want a strict interpretation of the rules, or if I need to GM in a more "official"/"professional" way, then I would disallow characters of Custom Lineage taking racial feats. I think it is better to err on the stricter and more conservative side of the rules, where if a rule does not explicitly say you can do it, then you cannot do it.
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Customizing your Origin is the all of Chapter 1, which includes Class options. As you stated, Custom Lineage specifically relates to race as does the rest of the information on pages 7 and 8.
Custom Lineage is a Race option.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I want to add this because I feel it needs to be very clear. I support you playing it how you want to play it. There is nothing wrong about it. We just disagree on whether it is RAW.
If you or any other DM wants to allow characters with a Custom Lineage to select race exclusive Feats, then go for it. Those characters would be giving up a lot just to pick up a Feat at 1st level. I really don't think it is worth while personally, but that does not mean that others can't feel differently about it.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Your first sentence means that you should change the word need in the last sentence to like. This is a game of make believe. D&D rules are and only ever have been guidelines. As DM, it's upon you to determine the level of your make believe. Make believe that the rule that makes most sense to you is what's best for your table. If they don't release official rules do you not use it, despite wanting to heavily use it in your game? That makes no sense.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
This thread is a technical discussion about the Rules As Written. Everyone agrees that the DM has "Rule Zero" to override any rule that feels less useful or less fun to a particular table. At the same time, it is a fallacy to say that Rule Zero means that less useful or less clear Rules As Written dont need updates or clarifications.
Many DMs prefer to play according to the Rules As Written. I prefer to do so. Heh, I think of Rule Zero as the nuclear option, a last resort if the Rules As Written seem unworkable for a particular setting concept or play style.
In the spirit of myself and other forumers, enjoy the game in any way you and your players wish.
he / him
I agree "Custom Lineage" is its own thing. However, I disagree it is "wholly separate" from race.
Note, the technical term "race" is being used to mean two different things.
• Race as an origin category, alongside other origin categories of ability scores, class, and background.
• Race as a particular kind of race, such as elf, dwarf, and dragonborn.
There is a difference in meaning because Custom Lineage allows the player to control the origin-race category. The player can decide to create a new race to fill the slot for the race category. But the player can even fill the race category with something that is not a race.
Ultimately, it appears the origin categories are:
• ability scores
• lineage (!)
• class
• background
Then, a character can have a race as the lineage, or have something else as the lineage.
Some forumers view "lineage" as a subset of race, so that lineage itself is its own kind of official weird miscellaneous race, alongside other official races like elf, dwarf, and dragonborn.
However, I view lineage as the bigger category. The race is a subset of lineage. The lineage can be a race like an elf or dwarf, but the lineage can also be a non-race like a werewolf, mutant, experiment, magical ritual, or so on. Lineage is a bigger category that includes many kinds of subsets to choose from.
Custom Lineage allows the player to choose something else instead of "one of the game's races". A variant race isnt a "game's" race. For example, a variant elf isnt the "game's" elf. Thus a player can use Custom Lineage to create a variant elf. This variant elf character is still an "elf", even if not the "elf" that the game officially describes. Thus the variant elf can qualify for a feat that prerequires having "elf" as the lineage of the character.
Note, if the player wants one of the game's races to be the lineage of the character, then the player doesnt need a Custom Lineage. The Custom Lineage is for players who want to have a different kind of lineage that rethinks a game's race or creates a new race.
The spirit of the rules in Tashas is to end any unintentionally "racist" rules. The purpose of the tools in the Tashas is to empower the player to control the concept of race or even to jettison it. The goal is for the player to have a character that the reallife player can be comfortable with. The fact that Xanathars continues to have such race-based rules, seems to be an oversight, due to more attention looking at the Players Handbook. I suspect, in the future, we will never see an other feat that prerequires a race.
Despite WotC being hesitant to implement errata, I hope to see an erratum that removes the race prerequisites from the Xanathars feats, similar to the way that an erratum removed the race prequisite from the Bladesinger Wizard subclass. Thus, the future erratum would remove any confusion about the Xanathars feats.
Even so, it is possible to read the Tashas rules in a way that Custom Lineage can access the Xanathars feats now. Simply put, a variant elf isnt the game's elf, thus Custom Lineage can create it and it can qualify. Generally speaking, the ability to override official race rules appears to be the intent of the game designers who wrote the rules in Tashas.
he / him