So, I had a fairly simple idea, what do you all think of this:
All Small or smaller creatures increase their Unarmed Strike damage from 1+Str to 1d2+Str, Medium or larger creatures increase their Unarmed Strike to 1d3+ Str, and all Monks increase the scale of their Unarmed Strike damage from 1d4-1d10 to 1d6-1d12.
Its simple, to the point, makes punching something interesting and makes Monks more effective at all tiers of play.
If I was using a Monk that struck with STR... then I was probably doing something wrong...
I’m confused what this has to do with anything. What does a Monk using Str have to do with increasing unarmed strikes for non-monks from 1+Str to 1d2+ Str or 1d3+Str depending on creature size? Or with increasing the Monk’s Martial Arts Die by one size across all levels? My idea has nothing to do with which Ability a Monk uses for their attacks and everything to do with how big a die they get to roll.
It also ensures that creatures with natural weapons like Tabaxi still have a slight advantage over the other races that don’t have them. 1+Str is boring, at least 1d2+Str lets you “roll” something.
I think this proposal can be interesting, I would like to test out the monks increased die at any rate, and probably the others too. Though, there are a couple of tiny snags. Arguably, one of the handy features about unarmed strikes for most characters is that you don't have to roll, it is a set damage, quick and easy to use. (How often it actually is used is another matter). Adding a roll to some of those unarmed attacks would be a little slower than just the straight set damage, there is also the fact that not everyone has a d2 or 3 handy aside from maybe online dice rollers. Both are relatively negligible snags, the dice roll for the unarmed attack would not be any slower than most regular attack rolls, and other die can be used in place of the d2 or 3, like a d6. (1-3 being 1 and 4-6 being 2 to replicate a 2 more or less, and the like.)
On the upside, you are still guaranteed regular damage of the unarmed strikes, and may even do a little more. It may even lead to more actual use of unarmed strikes from non monks. (Was thinking for a second maybe just use 1d4 for the other two and just do minus 1 or 2, but specify that you still do a minimum of 1 damage, but I don't like that.)
I like the proposal. I'll have to see if I can use it some time.
1: it would render all improvised weapons completely irrelevant unless you are in a situation where the DM allows you to apply your attack roll becuase the improvised weapon is similar to a weapon you are proficient, it would mean no more picking up frying pans to attack
2: smaller creatures dealing less damage is something that we have gotten rid of everywhere else since 3.5e, why should we specifically bring back an 0.5 point average difference in damage between halflings and humans here specifically?
3: this just feels like a hidden monk buff, would this shift apply to the monk's martial arts dice in general or would it apply specifically to unarmed strikes, with all other uses of your martial arts dice remaining the same? Would this also enhance a monk who is using daggers or sun soul monks?
4: maybe this is precisely the thing you were trying to do but this would mean that monks would always outclass every other martial class in terms of per-round damage during teirs 1 and 2 without needing to use flurry of blows as long as they have their bonus action available at all times
Well, I always thought that 1+Str was boring and wanted something to roll. But both the PHB and Basic Rules give instructions for simulating a d2 and a d3 using the standard dice. A d2 can use any die as an odds/evens or as a +/- roll (3+ on a d4, 4+ on a d6, etc.), and then of course any coin in existence ever minted is also a d2. (All of them.) And a d3 is easy to simulate using either a d6 (recommended) or a d12.
And I’m sorry no, a Berzerker Barbarian Raging swinging a Greataxe will still hold that title. 2*(1d12+5) > 2*(1d6+3) (Assuming Standard Array, and optimized Race for both.) Yes this would make Monks in general a bit better, but I also think Melee Weapons should Max at 2d8/4d4 and that the rage thing should favor multi-dice damage weapons. Basically an across the board increase in melee weapons, and especially to Strength based weapons. It would also open up a smidgen of room in the middle to fit in a few weapons that got squeezed out.
I think non-monk unarmed combat should also try to emphasize grappling the way many real life fighting styles do. Maybe when fighting unarmed, blows against a grappled target get larger damage dice than non-grappled unarmed strikes. Maybe if you take your grappled target down to the ground you get another tier of damage. Maybe positioning is key too and you want to end up on top of the target to gain additional benefits. And every step of the way on each tier the target would have an opportunity to flip the script on the attacker, positioning-wise, the way two people rolling around in the dirt fighting would.
Just a few thoughts, but I feel like positioning-based tiered damage dice could be a fun way to conduct it in more of a wrestling/brawling kind of fight.
And a d3 is easy to simulate using either a d6 (recommended) or a d12.
Fun fact, there are actually d3s, I got one a while back, and I was dumbstruck, it's basically a sphere with three flat sides.
There are several different kinds of d3s. Some are 6-sided dice that go 1-3 twice, some are similar but half of the edges are rounded so it only has to go 1-3 once, some are long skinny stretched out versions of the same thing (so it still only has 3 sides). I have several in different colors. Got them at Pax Unplugged a couple years ago.
And I’m sorry no, a Berzerker Barbarian Raging swinging a Greataxe will still hold that title. 2*(1d12+5) > 2*(1d6+3) (Assuming Standard Array, and optimized Race for both.)
yeah but a berserker barbarian has to both use a limited resource and gain a rather debillitating condition after the rage has ended and have to maintain their rage and also the bonus action attacks such a berserker can make only start the turn after you enter your rage, such conditions are more comparable to a monk spamming flurry of blows or a paladin using smites on every attack and the burst of damage with action surge than to just attack output overall, and this theoretical monk variant will still outclass barbarians out of rage, fighters of all fighting styles (except for possibly great-weapon master/ sharpshooter schenanigans against low-ac targets) and generally most other martial classes with d8 + d6 + 2*dex at levels 1-4 (using a quaterstaff or spear) and 3*(d8+dex) at levels +5 (ok yeah technically a fighter with the two-weapon fighting feat would be tied for this damage but that would mean that the fighter and monk would be equal in terms of ASI's until 14th level) with potential for monks either using tasha's cauldron and certain races with d10 versatile weapons or ones who are kensei monks taking that average damage just 2 points higher.
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Again, I also advocate for an increase in Melee Weapon damage, especially non-finesse weapons. When a Greatsword/Greataxe is doing 2d8/4d4, this seems then this kind of increase wouldn’t be a problem.
So, I had a fairly simple idea, what do you all think of this:
All Small or smaller creatures increase their Unarmed Strike damage from 1+Str to 1d2+Str, Medium or larger creatures increase their Unarmed Strike to 1d3+ Str, and all Monks increase the scale of their Unarmed Strike damage from 1d4-1d10 to 1d6-1d12.
Its simple, to the point, makes punching something interesting and makes Monks more effective at all tiers of play.
What say you all?
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If I was using a Monk that struck with STR... then I was probably doing something wrong...
I’m confused what this has to do with anything. What does a Monk using Str have to do with increasing unarmed strikes for non-monks from 1+Str to 1d2+ Str or 1d3+Str depending on creature size? Or with increasing the Monk’s Martial Arts Die by one size across all levels? My idea has nothing to do with which Ability a Monk uses for their attacks and everything to do with how big a die they get to roll.
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I think Grayfax was making the presumption that your change would only apply to monks using STR.
Not sure how I feel about the other bits. It's a tiny bit power creepy but understandable with the Fighter Unarmed Fighting thing.
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Ah. No, this would apply to all Monks.
It also ensures that creatures with natural weapons like Tabaxi still have a slight advantage over the other races that don’t have them. 1+Str is boring, at least 1d2+Str lets you “roll” something.
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Anyone else have any input or ideas?
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Sorry to pull up a slightly old post.
I think this proposal can be interesting, I would like to test out the monks increased die at any rate, and probably the others too. Though, there are a couple of tiny snags. Arguably, one of the handy features about unarmed strikes for most characters is that you don't have to roll, it is a set damage, quick and easy to use. (How often it actually is used is another matter). Adding a roll to some of those unarmed attacks would be a little slower than just the straight set damage, there is also the fact that not everyone has a d2 or 3 handy aside from maybe online dice rollers. Both are relatively negligible snags, the dice roll for the unarmed attack would not be any slower than most regular attack rolls, and other die can be used in place of the d2 or 3, like a d6. (1-3 being 1 and 4-6 being 2 to replicate a 2 more or less, and the like.)
On the upside, you are still guaranteed regular damage of the unarmed strikes, and may even do a little more. It may even lead to more actual use of unarmed strikes from non monks. (Was thinking for a second maybe just use 1d4 for the other two and just do minus 1 or 2, but specify that you still do a minimum of 1 damage, but I don't like that.)
I like the proposal. I'll have to see if I can use it some time.
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two bits of feedback i have here:
1: it would render all improvised weapons completely irrelevant unless you are in a situation where the DM allows you to apply your attack roll becuase the improvised weapon is similar to a weapon you are proficient, it would mean no more picking up frying pans to attack
2: smaller creatures dealing less damage is something that we have gotten rid of everywhere else since 3.5e, why should we specifically bring back an 0.5 point average difference in damage between halflings and humans here specifically?
3: this just feels like a hidden monk buff, would this shift apply to the monk's martial arts dice in general or would it apply specifically to unarmed strikes, with all other uses of your martial arts dice remaining the same? Would this also enhance a monk who is using daggers or sun soul monks?
4: maybe this is precisely the thing you were trying to do but this would mean that monks would always outclass every other martial class in terms of per-round damage during teirs 1 and 2 without needing to use flurry of blows as long as they have their bonus action available at all times
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Well, I always thought that 1+Str was boring and wanted something to roll. But both the PHB and Basic Rules give instructions for simulating a d2 and a d3 using the standard dice. A d2 can use any die as an odds/evens or as a +/- roll (3+ on a d4, 4+ on a d6, etc.), and then of course any coin in existence ever minted is also a d2. (All of them.) And a d3 is easy to simulate using either a d6 (recommended) or a d12.
And I’m sorry no, a Berzerker Barbarian Raging swinging a Greataxe will still hold that title. 2*(1d12+5) > 2*(1d6+3) (Assuming Standard Array, and optimized Race for both.) Yes this would make Monks in general a bit better, but I also think Melee Weapons should Max at 2d8/4d4 and that the rage thing should favor multi-dice damage weapons. Basically an across the board increase in melee weapons, and especially to Strength based weapons. It would also open up a smidgen of room in the middle to fit in a few weapons that got squeezed out.
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Fun fact, there are actually d3s, I got one a while back, and I was dumbstruck, it's basically a sphere with three flat sides.
Mystic v3 should be official, nuff said.
I think non-monk unarmed combat should also try to emphasize grappling the way many real life fighting styles do. Maybe when fighting unarmed, blows against a grappled target get larger damage dice than non-grappled unarmed strikes. Maybe if you take your grappled target down to the ground you get another tier of damage. Maybe positioning is key too and you want to end up on top of the target to gain additional benefits. And every step of the way on each tier the target would have an opportunity to flip the script on the attacker, positioning-wise, the way two people rolling around in the dirt fighting would.
Just a few thoughts, but I feel like positioning-based tiered damage dice could be a fun way to conduct it in more of a wrestling/brawling kind of fight.
There are several different kinds of d3s. Some are 6-sided dice that go 1-3 twice, some are similar but half of the edges are rounded so it only has to go 1-3 once, some are long skinny stretched out versions of the same thing (so it still only has 3 sides). I have several in different colors. Got them at Pax Unplugged a couple years ago.
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yeah but a berserker barbarian has to both use a limited resource and gain a rather debillitating condition after the rage has ended and have to maintain their rage and also the bonus action attacks such a berserker can make only start the turn after you enter your rage, such conditions are more comparable to a monk spamming flurry of blows or a paladin using smites on every attack and the burst of damage with action surge than to just attack output overall, and this theoretical monk variant will still outclass barbarians out of rage, fighters of all fighting styles (except for possibly great-weapon master/ sharpshooter schenanigans against low-ac targets) and generally most other martial classes with d8 + d6 + 2*dex at levels 1-4 (using a quaterstaff or spear) and 3*(d8+dex) at levels +5 (ok yeah technically a fighter with the two-weapon fighting feat would be tied for this damage but that would mean that the fighter and monk would be equal in terms of ASI's until 14th level) with potential for monks either using tasha's cauldron and certain races with d10 versatile weapons or ones who are kensei monks taking that average damage just 2 points higher.
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Again, I also advocate for an increase in Melee Weapon damage, especially non-finesse weapons. When a Greatsword/Greataxe is doing 2d8/4d4, this seems then this kind of increase wouldn’t be a problem.
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