If moving ASI around to make your character concept more viable (ie Orc Wizard v. Gnome Wizard) means that you are no longer playing "your favourite race" (good job putting words I did not use in quotes there, bud), then there is no mechanical reason to make that change.
The mechanical reason would be other racial qualities aside from the ASI, like an aaracokra's flight, a (half-)elf's access to Elven Accuracy, a half-orc's Relentless Endurance, a halfling's Lucky, etc.
I fully agree with the stats being movable as there are exceptions in all races for all manner of stats (really strong gnomes, really smart orcs).
That's where your point buy/array/rolls come into play.
But they also get some stuff blatantly wrong, like assuming Orcs are supposedly genetically evil. As if it's baked into their DNA or something, and that's just bull hockey.
Except it WAS genetic when it comes to beings like Orks (and Goblins, etc) because they were creations of malevolent gods. Orks sprang from the blood of Gruumsh when he battled Correllon Larethian. That's why an Ork that is not Lawful Evil is an anomaly and will still face suspicion and/or prejudice in any non-Humanoid settlement. That's the POINT of role-playing a free-willed Ork is you have to fight against your innate nature. Its why Alignment was an Objective Moral System, an objectively measurable force like electromagnetism, because it was based on the Cosmology.
Orks are Warhammer. If you want to talk about the forces of Chaos and/or The Warp, you're in the wrong place.
And that thing about Orcs springing from the blood of Gruumsh is a myth. To borrow from one of my favorite YT channels, "Myths aren't stories that aren't true. Rather, they are stories which do not neatly fit into the historical record." How true any of that is can vary from table to table. Corellon and the other major deities were also jerks who deprived Gruumsh of somewhere for his people to call home. And when Gruumsh had the gaul to get mad that everything was literally taken from him and the Orcs, Corellon shot out his eye.
Or did he? Some art of Gruumsh depicts him like a cyclops. And in the Forgotten Realms, he and Talos are two sides of the same coin. And Talos wears an eyepatch. See? it's all mythology. *Makes a sweeping gesture.*
Also, it's Chaotic Evil and not Lawful Evil. And if you think alignment was ever seriously objective...you know what? I can't help you there.
That's an interesting bit about Talos and Grummsh. I never recognized that.
To be fair, I've heard many different interpretations on the various creation stories and myth in d&d throughout the different editions. A lot of it can be seen as nebulous, even within the same setting depending on the edition.
Since myth's are supposed to be nebulous and esoteric, I think that is a good thing.
During 4th Edition, when they killed off a bunch of the gods and condensed the pantheon (my, how I love tighter pantheons), I believe Talos was made an aspect of Gruumsh. This is echoed somewhat in Dragon of Icespire Peak by the half-orc anchorites of Talos who led the orcs displaced by Cryovain.
If moving ASI around to make your character concept more viable (ie Orc Wizard v. Gnome Wizard) means that you are no longer playing "your favourite race" (good job putting words I did not use in quotes there, bud), then there is no mechanical reason to make that change.
The mechanical reason would be other racial qualities aside from the ASI, like an aaracokra's flight, a (half-)elf's access to Elven Accuracy, a half-orc's Relentless Endurance, a halfling's Lucky, etc.
I fully agree with the stats being movable as there are exceptions in all races for all manner of stats (really strong gnomes, really smart orcs).
That's where your point buy/array/rolls come into play.
Yeah I agree that helps. I do not mind the ASI changes is my thought.
More make it a race feature that makes the change aside from ASI
Like powerful build still makes a weak goliath still able to out lift a gnome easily.
Just go the other way for small races and I think it helps a lot.
I've said my piece, your nonsense about "retcons of lore" was refuted before you said it, and I am done engaging with people unable or unwilling to confront the flaws in their own reasoning or the blatantly untrue assumptions they're basing their arguments on. As Coronet said, this is spiraling.
Nah, you don't get to toss a rhetorical grenade at me and then say "I'm done". Passive-aggressive nonsense doesn't win you an argument. I am not basing my arguments on untrue assumptions and the fact you choose to attempt to frame my statements that way shows I'm right. You cannot show what my arguments are other than some vague assumptions about it. And no, its not "nonsense" about lore changes because that DOES affect long time campaigns.
The "retcons of lore" thing was already addressed. By me. And, in fact, at least through implication, by Wizards. There is no "retcon of lore" going on here. The races as a whole are not having their traits or histories or cultures wiped. We are just now able to (officially) create individuals who do not conform 1:1 to their culture's overriding trends. Which, again, are trends because no species is monolithic. Dogs can be born with three legs and mice can be born without tails and there are cats that are slower than others and birds that cannot fly and there is no reason there cannot be an Orc who does not like smashing and is therefore bad at it.
Heroic fantasy (in any genre) is about exceptional outliers, people who are not like everyone else. Your precious lore isn't going anywhere. This just gives us new ways to work in and around it.
But Jounichi is right. Nobody owes anyone engagement. You have the right to free speech, not the right to be heard. You have been generally unkind in most of your interactions in this thread, not just with me, intractable, unwilling to accept anything outside your own personal experience, and overall unpleasant. You got a response this time because you seemed to think I was being unfair somehow, so I've addressed your (flawed, incorrect, and already-rebutted) point as a show of some measure of good faith, but I am also very very done with any more interactions like this. I have a job and kids and far more in my life than this one small, trivial fight about a children's game.
At best, racial ASIs give you a temporary leg up on the competition. Taken all the way to their limit, the differences in Ability Scores between the different races, in the same class, are minor; if even discernable.
That might have been true had there not been an opportunity cost to getting ASIs.
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The problem with this is it makes a few assumptions. The first is that racial ability score increases are genetic, like alignment. They're not. It's reflective of the archetypal culture. In a culture where everyone is expected to be able to fight, strength or dexterity, and some kind of weapon training, makes sense. A society that embraces curiosity and values education is going to see a bump in Intelligence.
It's more likely both, but if I were to argue one or the other I'd point out that the all-cultural-no-genetic angle logically means every race is intrinsically on average equally strong, equally limber, equally strong-willed and so on. Does that seem likely, or even just not totally weird? Nature conspired to make everyone equal in most aspects of their being?
Nature can have multiple connotations. Are we talking about mutation (strictly genetics), or are we talking about adaptation to one's environment? The demands of a certain lifestyle are going to spur certain developments.
Also, it's Chaotic Evil and not Lawful Evil. And if you think alignment was ever seriously objective...you know what? I can't help you there.
Sorry, you're wrong. 1E AD&D Monster Manual lists Orks as Lawful Evil.
ORC FREQUENCY: Common NO. APPEARING: 30-300 ARMOR CLASS: 6 MOVE: 9" HIT DICE: 1 % IN LAIR: 35% TREASURE TYPE: Individuals 1; C, 0, Q ( X IO), S in lair NO. OF ATTACKS: I DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-8 or by weapon type SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil MAGIC RESISTANCE Standard INTELLIGENCE: Average (low) ALIGNMENT: Lawful evil SIZE: M (6'+ tall)
And Alignment IS an Objective Morality System. Otherwise spells like Detect Good/Evil couldn't have existed.
The "retcons of lore" thing was already addressed. By me. And, in fact, at least through implication, by Wizards. There is no "retcon of lore" going on here.
Are you being intentionally obtuse or something? I don't give a hoot-in-hell about ASI changes or the like. When I say "Lore", I mean just that: lore. Like making Iggwilv and Natasha the Dark the SAME PERSON when it was established by the CREATORS they weren't (and even in actual canon set for by TSR).
If a DM hates the idea that not all orcs are the same, completely identical orc minted from a production line with the stamp of GruumshCorp on their left buttcheek (not their right buttcheek, specifically their left - right-cheek GC trademarks are a horrible breech of quality control), then the DM can assign a specific stat array to any player that wishes to play an orc. That DM doesn't have to stop at simply assigning the floating modifiers - they can say "your orc's stats are 17, 13, 15, 8, 12, 10. That's your array - take it or play a different character". Now, the player can say "screw this noise I'm out" and ditch the game, but the DM can still declare a single, concrete, eternal and unchanging array for every last single orc in the entirety of their world if that's what they like. No one's stopping them. If they can't find players who're willing to accept that level of DM meddling in their own PC, that's the DM's problem, not ours.
If folks are so angry and upset that players have the freedom to create characters that conform to that player's own fun and ideals, there's always the option of pregens. Just use pregens. If your D&D cannot tolerate characters outside the norm?
Just. Use. Pregens. Find players willing to follow the script you give them and do a dramatic reading of the Epic Story you wrote. You can record it and listen to it later to remind you of the time when you found the solution to running the perfect D&D campaign - removing all player agency from the game completely and making it a script reading, instead.
The "retcons of lore" thing was already addressed. By me. And, in fact, at least through implication, by Wizards. There is no "retcon of lore" going on here.
Are you being intentionally obtuse or something? I don't give a hoot-in-hell about ASI changes or the like. When I say "Lore", I mean just that: lore. Like making Iggwilv and Natasha the Dark the SAME PERSON when it was established by the CREATORS they weren't (and even in actual canon set for by TSR).
And Iggwilv was male before being retconned as female by Gary Gygax himself. That change was made between two different versions of Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. It's not a big deal, guy.
The only legit reason to be somewhat upset (I am not personally) is that the Tasha's ASI thing was touted as "optional" and that you did not have to engage with them.
Moving foward that appears that any new lineage that comes out will not have ASI's assigned (I am assuming a floating +2 and +1? Or just a +2? Not sure).
This is obviously not "optional" then and is now the new norm.
This is exactly what people complained would happen (Again I personally do not care as I like the direction they are going) but I can see the disappointment if you did not.
The other aspect of Strength is Athleticism - the character's ability to run, jump, climb, swim, exert themselves and otherwise perform feats of athletics. There is no fixed external mass to overcome for athletics - the character needs to defeat their own body weight, not the weight of Mr. Rock or Mr. Owlbear Corpse. In terms of athleticism, gnomes are better than orcs - the Square-Cube Law means a Small creature has more muscle power per kilogram of body weight than a larger creature does. Not just 'more', but significantly more - pound for pound, your gnomes, gobbos and Legally Distinct Hobbits are twice the athlete you'll ever be. At least.
Erm, no. Go take a look at the Olympics. Size is an advantage for just about any competition where strength matters, because long limbs allow you to leverage strength more effectively. It's simple physics. There are no short jumpers at the Olympics, not long jumpers, not high jumpers and not even pole vaulters. Swimmers benefit far more from long limbs than from a body mass reduction due to being less tall. Gymnasts on the other hand are almost all short and petite - they need agility and balance to control their strength. They are still very strong, certainly the allrounders, but that's because there are requirements set on their exercises to include pure strength displays. Figure skaters need to be very fit, but the ability to perform a triple jump doesn't come from strength. And so on.
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The "retcons of lore" thing was already addressed. By me. And, in fact, at least through implication, by Wizards. There is no "retcon of lore" going on here.
Are you being intentionally obtuse or something? I don't give a hoot-in-hell about ASI changes or the like. When I say "Lore", I mean just that: lore. Like making Iggwilv and Natasha the Dark the SAME PERSON when it was established by the CREATORS they weren't (and even in actual canon set for by TSR).
And Iggwilv was male before being retconned as female by Gary Gygax himself. That change was made between two different versions of Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. It's not a big deal, guy.
Except that's Iggwilv from The Domesday Map, not The Flanaess/Greyhawk. And Gygax did both, so its a little bit different. And you're talking about the difference from a tournament module and a published module.
It's also UA. There's plenty of time for Wizards to adjust course between UA and Release and give "recommended" ASIs without saying all characters of a given lineage must be absolutely identical forever, the way lore grognards are insisting on. Kinda the point of UA, in fact - see what people think of a given thing and pulse-check to see where they need to tighten up development. Other than "everywhere".
It's also UA. There's plenty of time for Wizards to adjust course between UA and Release and give "recommended" ASIs without saying all characters of a given lineage must be absolutely identical forever, the way lore grognards are insisting on. Kinda the point of UA, in fact - see what people think of a given thing and pulse-check to see where they need to tighten up development. Other than "everywhere".
Honestly this is the best way to move forward as it gives everyone an out.
The only legit reason to be somewhat upset (I am not personally) is that the Tasha's ASI thing was touted as "optional" and that you did not have to engage with them.
Moving foward that appears that any new lineage that comes out will not have ASI's assigned (I am assuming a floating +2 and +1? Or just a +2? Not sure).
This is obviously not "optional" then and is now the new norm.
This is exactly what people complained would happen (Again I personally do not care as I like the direction they are going) but I can see the disappointment if you did not.
They are right...its no longer optional.
Which is why WotC need to either commit to Tasha's being the new standard or that it is in fact optional and they continue designing new content with the original standard rules.
Edit: Yurei is right that this is still UA so things could change, but man if this isn't frustrating.
The problem with this is it makes a few assumptions. The first is that racial ability score increases are genetic, like alignment. They're not. It's reflective of the archetypal culture. In a culture where everyone is expected to be able to fight, strength or dexterity, and some kind of weapon training, makes sense. A society that embraces curiosity and values education is going to see a bump in Intelligence.
It's more likely both, but if I were to argue one or the other I'd point out that the all-cultural-no-genetic angle logically means every race is intrinsically on average equally strong, equally limber, equally strong-willed and so on. Does that seem likely, or even just not totally weird? Nature conspired to make everyone equal in most aspects of their being?
I think that WotC wants to make it a cultural thing. So if your gnome grows up in a library...yeah it makes sense they have a bump for INT. If they grew up in the underdark hammering away at rocks all day...they will have a bump to STR.
I still agree you can solve it with class features instead of ASI like in my previous response.
If they grew up in a library, they put their highest stat in Int. If they grew up chained to a wheel and forced to turn it around all day like Conan, they put their highest stat in Str (or maybe Con). I mean, if we pretend ASIs didn't exist that is what we would assume assigning ability scores would mean, right? Some innate talent as well, sure, but mostly development?
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I'd disagree. It's still optional, you could still use any race/lineage which has static ASIs. If they want to use the (also optional) new races/lineages, then they would need to use the new system (or homebrew static ASIs and whatever else for them). But that doesn't mean it's no longer optional. They still have the option not to use the new system.
The problem with this is it makes a few assumptions. The first is that racial ability score increases are genetic, like alignment. They're not. It's reflective of the archetypal culture. In a culture where everyone is expected to be able to fight, strength or dexterity, and some kind of weapon training, makes sense. A society that embraces curiosity and values education is going to see a bump in Intelligence.
It's more likely both, but if I were to argue one or the other I'd point out that the all-cultural-no-genetic angle logically means every race is intrinsically on average equally strong, equally limber, equally strong-willed and so on. Does that seem likely, or even just not totally weird? Nature conspired to make everyone equal in most aspects of their being?
Nature can have multiple connotations. Are we talking about mutation (strictly genetics), or are we talking about adaptation to one's environment? The demands of a certain lifestyle are going to spur certain developments.
Which will presumably be reflected in how stats are assigned to abilities.
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The "retcons of lore" thing was already addressed. By me. And, in fact, at least through implication, by Wizards. There is no "retcon of lore" going on here.
Are you being intentionally obtuse or something? I don't give a hoot-in-hell about ASI changes or the like. When I say "Lore", I mean just that: lore. Like making Iggwilv and Natasha the Dark the SAME PERSON when it was established by the CREATORS they weren't (and even in actual canon set for by TSR).
And Iggwilv was male before being retconned as female by Gary Gygax himself. That change was made between two different versions of Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. It's not a big deal, guy.
Yeah, I grew up a comic reader long before I ever got into D&D, and let's just talk about Wanda and Pietro Maximoff for a moment. Initially, they were just the children of the Maximoffs, humble Roma folk living near Wundagore Mountain in the fictional eastern European country of Transia. This was true for several years.
Then at some point, that got boring and Marvel decided the twins were the offspring of the super-speedster known as The Whizzer and Miss America. This was the status quo for literal decades of real-world time, and who knows how long in-world. The Whizzer literally died believing the twins were his.
Then there was an intimation that they were Magneto's kids, which, lemme tell you, pissed some people off. That took hold as the prominent theory for decades, to the point that millions of comics readers thought it was always true.
Then the second Avengers movie came out, and due to legal nonsense, they couldn't use Magneto or mutants, but they could use Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch for reasons, and their parents weren't mentioned at all. But because it was assumed Marvel would never be able to use mutants in the movies, the comics' continuity did some rejiggering and decided "Nope, they were the Maximoffs' kids the whole time but their powers come from tampering by the High Evolutionary in their infancy." Which, lemme just say pissed even more people off. Mostly people who'd only been in comics since the 90s and thought that the Magneto stuff was rock-hard immutable fact, and entirely missed that really, things were just returning to their roots, even if it was spurred by high-level corporate stuff.
Point is: Lore is dumb. It's dumb in comics where it's only ever an excuse to tell a story where things get bigger or weirder, and it's even dumber in D&D where such a large percentage of people involved throw it out entirely and come up with their own stuff because that's easier than reading six hundred and twenty three novels (I literally just googled this: 292 FR, 203 Dragonlance, 40 Eberron, 24 Ravenloft, 16 Dark Sun, 13 Greyhawk, 10 Mystara, 7 Nentir Vale, 3 Birthright, 3 Planescape, 3 Spelljammer, as of June 2020) and innumerable sourcebooks and addenda to make sure you've got it all straight.
Fundamental lore thing that a lot of gatekeepers and wiki-stalkers completely ignore: The stories that came before only matter as far as they improve the story you're telling now. If they don't improve it, ignore 'em, ditch 'em, move on. This is not real-world history. Forgetting it or changing it hurts nothing except the ego of those who've built their entire personality around memorizing it.
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That's where your point buy/array/rolls come into play.
During 4th Edition, when they killed off a bunch of the gods and condensed the pantheon (my, how I love tighter pantheons), I believe Talos was made an aspect of Gruumsh. This is echoed somewhat in Dragon of Icespire Peak by the half-orc anchorites of Talos who led the orcs displaced by Cryovain.
Yeah I agree that helps. I do not mind the ASI changes is my thought.
More make it a race feature that makes the change aside from ASI
Like powerful build still makes a weak goliath still able to out lift a gnome easily.
Just go the other way for small races and I think it helps a lot.
The "retcons of lore" thing was already addressed. By me. And, in fact, at least through implication, by Wizards. There is no "retcon of lore" going on here. The races as a whole are not having their traits or histories or cultures wiped. We are just now able to (officially) create individuals who do not conform 1:1 to their culture's overriding trends. Which, again, are trends because no species is monolithic. Dogs can be born with three legs and mice can be born without tails and there are cats that are slower than others and birds that cannot fly and there is no reason there cannot be an Orc who does not like smashing and is therefore bad at it.
Heroic fantasy (in any genre) is about exceptional outliers, people who are not like everyone else. Your precious lore isn't going anywhere. This just gives us new ways to work in and around it.
But Jounichi is right. Nobody owes anyone engagement. You have the right to free speech, not the right to be heard. You have been generally unkind in most of your interactions in this thread, not just with me, intractable, unwilling to accept anything outside your own personal experience, and overall unpleasant. You got a response this time because you seemed to think I was being unfair somehow, so I've addressed your (flawed, incorrect, and already-rebutted) point as a show of some measure of good faith, but I am also very very done with any more interactions like this. I have a job and kids and far more in my life than this one small, trivial fight about a children's game.
That might have been true had there not been an opportunity cost to getting ASIs.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Nature can have multiple connotations. Are we talking about mutation (strictly genetics), or are we talking about adaptation to one's environment? The demands of a certain lifestyle are going to spur certain developments.
Sorry, you're wrong. 1E AD&D Monster Manual lists Orks as Lawful Evil.
ORC
FREQUENCY: Common
NO. APPEARING: 30-300
ARMOR CLASS: 6
MOVE: 9"
HIT DICE: 1
% IN LAIR: 35%
TREASURE TYPE: Individuals 1; C,
0, Q ( X IO), S in lair
NO. OF ATTACKS: I
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-8 or by
weapon type
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Average (low)
ALIGNMENT: Lawful evil
SIZE: M (6'+ tall)
And Alignment IS an Objective Morality System. Otherwise spells like Detect Good/Evil couldn't have existed.
Are you being intentionally obtuse or something? I don't give a hoot-in-hell about ASI changes or the like. When I say "Lore", I mean just that: lore. Like making Iggwilv and Natasha the Dark the SAME PERSON when it was established by the CREATORS they weren't (and even in actual canon set for by TSR).
Folks.
Folks.
Please.
If a DM hates the idea that not all orcs are the same, completely identical orc minted from a production line with the stamp of GruumshCorp on their left buttcheek (not their right buttcheek, specifically their left - right-cheek GC trademarks are a horrible breech of quality control), then the DM can assign a specific stat array to any player that wishes to play an orc. That DM doesn't have to stop at simply assigning the floating modifiers - they can say "your orc's stats are 17, 13, 15, 8, 12, 10. That's your array - take it or play a different character". Now, the player can say "screw this noise I'm out" and ditch the game, but the DM can still declare a single, concrete, eternal and unchanging array for every last single orc in the entirety of their world if that's what they like. No one's stopping them. If they can't find players who're willing to accept that level of DM meddling in their own PC, that's the DM's problem, not ours.
If folks are so angry and upset that players have the freedom to create characters that conform to that player's own fun and ideals, there's always the option of pregens. Just use pregens. If your D&D cannot tolerate characters outside the norm?
Just. Use. Pregens. Find players willing to follow the script you give them and do a dramatic reading of the Epic Story you wrote. You can record it and listen to it later to remind you of the time when you found the solution to running the perfect D&D campaign - removing all player agency from the game completely and making it a script reading, instead.
Try it. Let us know how it works out for you.
Please do not contact or message me.
And Iggwilv was male before being retconned as female by Gary Gygax himself. That change was made between two different versions of Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. It's not a big deal, guy.
The only legit reason to be somewhat upset (I am not personally) is that the Tasha's ASI thing was touted as "optional" and that you did not have to engage with them.
Moving foward that appears that any new lineage that comes out will not have ASI's assigned (I am assuming a floating +2 and +1? Or just a +2? Not sure).
This is obviously not "optional" then and is now the new norm.
This is exactly what people complained would happen (Again I personally do not care as I like the direction they are going) but I can see the disappointment if you did not.
They are right...its no longer optional.
Erm, no. Go take a look at the Olympics. Size is an advantage for just about any competition where strength matters, because long limbs allow you to leverage strength more effectively. It's simple physics. There are no short jumpers at the Olympics, not long jumpers, not high jumpers and not even pole vaulters. Swimmers benefit far more from long limbs than from a body mass reduction due to being less tall. Gymnasts on the other hand are almost all short and petite - they need agility and balance to control their strength. They are still very strong, certainly the allrounders, but that's because there are requirements set on their exercises to include pure strength displays. Figure skaters need to be very fit, but the ability to perform a triple jump doesn't come from strength. And so on.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Except that's Iggwilv from The Domesday Map, not The Flanaess/Greyhawk. And Gygax did both, so its a little bit different. And you're talking about the difference from a tournament module and a published module.
It's also UA. There's plenty of time for Wizards to adjust course between UA and Release and give "recommended" ASIs without saying all characters of a given lineage must be absolutely identical forever, the way lore grognards are insisting on. Kinda the point of UA, in fact - see what people think of a given thing and pulse-check to see where they need to tighten up development. Other than "everywhere".
Please do not contact or message me.
Honestly this is the best way to move forward as it gives everyone an out.
Which is why WotC need to either commit to Tasha's being the new standard or that it is in fact optional and they continue designing new content with the original standard rules.
Edit: Yurei is right that this is still UA so things could change, but man if this isn't frustrating.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
If they grew up in a library, they put their highest stat in Int. If they grew up chained to a wheel and forced to turn it around all day like Conan, they put their highest stat in Str (or maybe Con). I mean, if we pretend ASIs didn't exist that is what we would assume assigning ability scores would mean, right? Some innate talent as well, sure, but mostly development?
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
"They are right...its no longer optional."
I'd disagree. It's still optional, you could still use any race/lineage which has static ASIs. If they want to use the (also optional) new races/lineages, then they would need to use the new system (or homebrew static ASIs and whatever else for them). But that doesn't mean it's no longer optional. They still have the option not to use the new system.
Which will presumably be reflected in how stats are assigned to abilities.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Yeah, I grew up a comic reader long before I ever got into D&D, and let's just talk about Wanda and Pietro Maximoff for a moment. Initially, they were just the children of the Maximoffs, humble Roma folk living near Wundagore Mountain in the fictional eastern European country of Transia. This was true for several years.
Then at some point, that got boring and Marvel decided the twins were the offspring of the super-speedster known as The Whizzer and Miss America. This was the status quo for literal decades of real-world time, and who knows how long in-world. The Whizzer literally died believing the twins were his.
Then there was an intimation that they were Magneto's kids, which, lemme tell you, pissed some people off. That took hold as the prominent theory for decades, to the point that millions of comics readers thought it was always true.
Then the second Avengers movie came out, and due to legal nonsense, they couldn't use Magneto or mutants, but they could use Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch for reasons, and their parents weren't mentioned at all. But because it was assumed Marvel would never be able to use mutants in the movies, the comics' continuity did some rejiggering and decided "Nope, they were the Maximoffs' kids the whole time but their powers come from tampering by the High Evolutionary in their infancy." Which, lemme just say pissed even more people off. Mostly people who'd only been in comics since the 90s and thought that the Magneto stuff was rock-hard immutable fact, and entirely missed that really, things were just returning to their roots, even if it was spurred by high-level corporate stuff.
Point is: Lore is dumb. It's dumb in comics where it's only ever an excuse to tell a story where things get bigger or weirder, and it's even dumber in D&D where such a large percentage of people involved throw it out entirely and come up with their own stuff because that's easier than reading six hundred and twenty three novels (I literally just googled this: 292 FR, 203 Dragonlance, 40 Eberron, 24 Ravenloft, 16 Dark Sun, 13 Greyhawk, 10 Mystara, 7 Nentir Vale, 3 Birthright, 3 Planescape, 3 Spelljammer, as of June 2020) and innumerable sourcebooks and addenda to make sure you've got it all straight.
Fundamental lore thing that a lot of gatekeepers and wiki-stalkers completely ignore: The stories that came before only matter as far as they improve the story you're telling now. If they don't improve it, ignore 'em, ditch 'em, move on. This is not real-world history. Forgetting it or changing it hurts nothing except the ego of those who've built their entire personality around memorizing it.