Adding my 2 cents in as well, as I am also disappointed about how the 2024 rules are being implemented. It's great that WOTC are offering the 2024 basic rules and spells for free- awesome. What's upsetting is that the character sheets will no longer be convenient to use if you are not ready to make the switch. My group is interested in the new rules...but we are absolutely not interested in making the switch mid campaign. If we have to do a bunch of extra work to make the character sheets in DnD Beyond continue to work for our campaign, there's zero point to continue using it. Period. We use DnD Beyond because it is a great tool and super convenient, and if tool is now super inconvenient, may as well go back to paper- or switch to another app. There's already an existing legacy system in place, so it seems as though it would be simple to add a toggle for the old content /rules for users who own them, and yet WOTC is choosing to not do this. I understand the e-books are still available, but the fact that they will be no longer linked to the DnD Beyond character sheets makes the character sheets worthless to me and my group for the rest of this campaign.
I'm glad things were reconsidered.. it was one thing to take a la carte, but the ability on how to play? Tchtchtch~
As others have stated- I wont be thanking for this as a choice as big as which version to play shouldn't have been difficult to allow. It took a lot of pointing and even major partners to call this out. wHICH.. You (DDB) stressed lots of people out. At least Roll20 was happily stepping up to fill the shoes in the hysteria- but even now things have settled.. with the drastic changes being played around with.. the community is treading lightly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hello! You can call me Nomad. Early 20's - He/They - SpaceNomad247#8429
Thanks for walking back on this - it was necessary and I feel better about keeping my characters on ddb. Personally I like the way ddb sheets function and didn’t want to have to migrate somewhere else with the large trove of characters I have kicking around.
I cancelled my annual sub, but there is a while yet before it runs out. If WOTC continues to behave, I’ll renew. In the meantime I’ll be making an effort to make sure I have all my owned content either physically or backed up somehow.
"Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters. Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
Hey all, we've heard your feedback and have published an article outlining our plan going forward. You can read it here. Thank you!
Too little too late. I am tired of fighting you guys. I am leaving for good. Check my account. I have purchased almost everything you have to offer and feel like a total chump. I refuse to spend another dollar on your products.
You’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.
Thank you all for giving us your feedback and making your voices heard. :)
Many of us are reserving our judgement for the moment. Or rather, holding our action, as it were. Trust has been broken, and once lost is VERY hard to regain.
Communication is the key. An informed community is a happy community.
And, on a lighter note, I'll share this. My husband described it as a Muppet version of Drunk History:
Maybe you've answered this somewhere else, but what is the logic in forcing a turnover to only a partial system? In other words, the DMG doesn't come out until November and the Monster Manual until next year. Like, was the plan just to continually update content on DDB from now until February and in the time between have neither 2014 nor 2024 fully functional?
It's just strange to me that you wouldn't do a soft optional launch now and a hard launch in February. Were we going to be forced into 2024 PHB content but then the DMG/MM 2014?
Maybe you've answered this somewhere else, but what is the logic in forcing a turnover to only a partial system?
Greed, and let me explain:
They thought, that if the toolset became inconvenientenough to use with 2014, that everyone would buy all the new 2024 books for hundreds of dollars. Because all the spells from any new book would immediately break the old ones, so whenever some book you had came out in a 2024 version, you would have to update or be stuck with a mismatch in spells. So much for their "business school" theory.
What they failed to consider though, is the following: Their only business is the convenience of having book information in the toolset. Other than that, any PDF is a more convenient option that doesn't require internet access.
However, by misjudging their own business model, they alienated so many people who voiced their displeasure, that panick struck on Monday morning, after the weekend. I think the realization of what they had done (wrecking their whole reason for existing) dawned on them today.
If only they'd listened to us about a la carte purchases, too.
I doubt that some day they will listen about a la carte purchases.
Mainly because this and the current situation are two very different problems.
A la carte purchases took an option from us to buy things in a certain way from now on, and although is kind of a dick move, it does not take things we already bought with money.
This changelog would have taken things we already bought with money (content for use in the sheets from 2014 PHB), things we own, not options for the future.
If they were to announce that they are, like, taking away the option to buy the 2014 books from now on, but are not messing with people that already bought (similar to what happened to Volo's Guide to Monsters). I doubt the reaction of users would be the same. I, for instance, could not care less.
They can sell what they want, is their lose more than mine if they stop selling something people want. But do not touch what I already bought it...
I mainly use this for the tool tips and rules linked in the character sheet. That's my main issue. I am dyslexic and having such quick access to the rules makes the game more accessible to me. I'll be losing the main reason I use and pay for the service.
Did you see where this has been fixed? You'll have access to the 2014 spells, etc. from your character sheet.
My understanding is that all 2014 player options (such as spells) will be accessible within the character sheet. However, as far as I can tell, the other announced changes to the tooltips will still occur. Essentially, anywhere there is scroll over tooltip, the popup will display the 2024 ruleset definition (ie. something like this: exhaustion). So that includes core gameplay definitions, armor class, saving throws, skills/abilities, alignment, senses (Blindsight, Darkvision, Tremorsense, Truesight), and area of effect definitions. I fell off the playtest early on so I have no idea how big those changes are. It seems like people care less about that because the core functionality of the character sheets is remaining.
This is why it is never a good thing to release the news of big changes at the end of the week. Your customer base explodes while you enjoy your weekend and you come back to a bigger mess than was necessary. I read several posts about cancelling their service that in the end was unnecessary because you had a change of plans. Thanks for listening to us and a big ole raspberry to those self declared tech geniuses who said your architecture would not allow you to give us the best of both worlds!
Thank you so much for listening! This was absolutely the right move to make for those of us who have come to rely on DND Beyond for our games. I run and play in multiple games, and this has been a hot topic of discussion, and not a single player that plays in my games, nor the DM I get to play under was happy about the original announcement. The other DM was so unhappy he was ready just to dump DND Beyond altogether and go back to paper. I was considering that move myself for my in-person group, but I also have an online group, and those original changes generated a lot of unease both in myself and my players.
Most of the people I play with are excited and looking forward to most of the changes coming 2024 ruleset and I as a DM plan on moving to the 2024 ruleset eventually, but there are a few reasons we are not ready to make that move yet. You might ask why are we not ready to just jump into 2024 now.
In both games I am running the PC's are Level 5-7. As the DM, I loathe to make big rule changes in the middle of a campaign. It's difficult to digest in game why spells, items, and character features suddenly work differently. I also wanted time to read, consider, and process the new changes. So the plan was to finish out the campaigns with the 2014 ruleset, and then move to the 2024 ruleset with whatever the next campaign is going to be. I am exceedingly glad we will be able to do this now without having to do a bunch of additional work.
For the game I am playing in the DM wants to stick with 2014 because he cannot afford to buy into 2024 just yet.
Again, thank you for listening to us! I hope in the future that the DND Beyond team will give some more consideration to plans moving forward.
Hey all, we've heard your feedback and have published an article outlining our plan going forward. You can read it here. Thank you!
There's no apology in this statement.
No apology from mods? Vocal minority my left foot! - Actually that may not be entirely fair, there is definitely a party line you have to take I'm sure. So blink twice if you need rescued mods!
I'm expecting 2014 players to have still issues with character sheets after the changes are made, and I'd bet my last copper coin that we'll be having another episode like this in the near future.
Comparisons of Hasbro WotC to abusive relationships are spot on - They don't mean it! They'll change! They love you! Then tomorrow it's out with the fists again *whack!*
Well done to the community for standing up for it's collective self, but it should never have happened in the first place. We know who we are dealing with by now.
Adding my 2 cents in as well, as I am also disappointed about how the 2024 rules are being implemented. It's great that WOTC are offering the 2024 basic rules and spells for free- awesome. What's upsetting is that the character sheets will no longer be convenient to use if you are not ready to make the switch. My group is interested in the new rules...but we are absolutely not interested in making the switch mid campaign. If we have to do a bunch of extra work to make the character sheets in DnD Beyond continue to work for our campaign, there's zero point to continue using it. Period. We use DnD Beyond because it is a great tool and super convenient, and if tool is now super inconvenient, may as well go back to paper- or switch to another app. There's already an existing legacy system in place, so it seems as though it would be simple to add a toggle for the old content /rules for users who own them, and yet WOTC is choosing to not do this. I understand the e-books are still available, but the fact that they will be no longer linked to the DnD Beyond character sheets makes the character sheets worthless to me and my group for the rest of this campaign.
I'm glad things were reconsidered.. it was one thing to take a la carte, but the ability on how to play? Tchtchtch~
As others have stated- I wont be thanking for this as a choice as big as which version to play shouldn't have been difficult to allow. It took a lot of pointing and even major partners to call this out. wHICH.. You (DDB) stressed lots of people out. At least Roll20 was happily stepping up to fill the shoes in the hysteria- but even now things have settled.. with the drastic changes being played around with.. the community is treading lightly.
Thanks for walking back on this - it was necessary and I feel better about keeping my characters on ddb. Personally I like the way ddb sheets function and didn’t want to have to migrate somewhere else with the large trove of characters I have kicking around.
I cancelled my annual sub, but there is a while yet before it runs out. If WOTC continues to behave, I’ll renew. In the meantime I’ll be making an effort to make sure I have all my owned content either physically or backed up somehow.
"Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters. Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
Thank you.
Saw the update just as soon as I posted this- couldn't be happier that WOTC walked back their initial decision.
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Thank you for listening!
Thank you for listening to us the community. You should do it more often.
Too little too late. I am tired of fighting you guys. I am leaving for good. Check my account. I have purchased almost everything you have to offer and feel like a total chump. I refuse to spend another dollar on your products.
It's a surprise they didn't hit us with this classic gem:
Free Content: [Basic Rules],
[Phandelver],[Frozen Sick],[Acquisitions Inc.],[Vecna Dossier],[Radiant Citadel], [Spelljammer],[Dragonlance], [Prisoner 13],[Minecraft],[Star Forge], [Baldur’s Gate], [Lightning Keep], [Stormwreck Isle], [Pinebrook], [Caverns of Tsojcanth], [The Lost Horn], [Elemental Evil].Free Dice: [Frostmaiden],
[Flourishing], [Sanguine],[Themberchaud], [Baldur's Gate 3], [Lego].Many of us are reserving our judgement for the moment. Or rather, holding our action, as it were. Trust has been broken, and once lost is VERY hard to regain.
Communication is the key. An informed community is a happy community.
And, on a lighter note, I'll share this. My husband described it as a Muppet version of Drunk History:
Maybe you've answered this somewhere else, but what is the logic in forcing a turnover to only a partial system? In other words, the DMG doesn't come out until November and the Monster Manual until next year. Like, was the plan just to continually update content on DDB from now until February and in the time between have neither 2014 nor 2024 fully functional?
It's just strange to me that you wouldn't do a soft optional launch now and a hard launch in February. Were we going to be forced into 2024 PHB content but then the DMG/MM 2014?
Greed, and let me explain:
They thought, that if the toolset became inconvenient enough to use with 2014, that everyone would buy all the new 2024 books for hundreds of dollars. Because all the spells from any new book would immediately break the old ones, so whenever some book you had came out in a 2024 version, you would have to update or be stuck with a mismatch in spells. So much for their "business school" theory.
What they failed to consider though, is the following: Their only business is the convenience of having book information in the toolset. Other than that, any PDF is a more convenient option that doesn't require internet access.
However, by misjudging their own business model, they alienated so many people who voiced their displeasure, that panick struck on Monday morning, after the weekend. I think the realization of what they had done (wrecking their whole reason for existing) dawned on them today.
Thank you.
Now if DDB wanted to bring back a-la-carte purchasing, I'd be really excited.
I doubt that some day they will listen about a la carte purchases.
Mainly because this and the current situation are two very different problems.
A la carte purchases took an option from us to buy things in a certain way from now on, and although is kind of a dick move, it does not take things we already bought with money.
This changelog would have taken things we already bought with money (content for use in the sheets from 2014 PHB), things we own, not options for the future.
If they were to announce that they are, like, taking away the option to buy the 2014 books from now on, but are not messing with people that already bought (similar to what happened to Volo's Guide to Monsters). I doubt the reaction of users would be the same. I, for instance, could not care less.
They can sell what they want, is their lose more than mine if they stop selling something people want. But do not touch what I already bought it...
Thank you SO MUCH for listening.
My understanding is that all 2014 player options (such as spells) will be accessible within the character sheet. However, as far as I can tell, the other announced changes to the tooltips will still occur. Essentially, anywhere there is scroll over tooltip, the popup will display the 2024 ruleset definition (ie. something like this: exhaustion). So that includes core gameplay definitions, armor class, saving throws, skills/abilities, alignment, senses (Blindsight, Darkvision, Tremorsense, Truesight), and area of effect definitions. I fell off the playtest early on so I have no idea how big those changes are. It seems like people care less about that because the core functionality of the character sheets is remaining.
This is why it is never a good thing to release the news of big changes at the end of the week. Your customer base explodes while you enjoy your weekend and you come back to a bigger mess than was necessary. I read several posts about cancelling their service that in the end was unnecessary because you had a change of plans. Thanks for listening to us and a big ole raspberry to those self declared tech geniuses who said your architecture would not allow you to give us the best of both worlds!
Get off my lawn or roll for initiative!
Thank you so much for listening! This was absolutely the right move to make for those of us who have come to rely on DND Beyond for our games. I run and play in multiple games, and this has been a hot topic of discussion, and not a single player that plays in my games, nor the DM I get to play under was happy about the original announcement. The other DM was so unhappy he was ready just to dump DND Beyond altogether and go back to paper. I was considering that move myself for my in-person group, but I also have an online group, and those original changes generated a lot of unease both in myself and my players.
Most of the people I play with are excited and looking forward to most of the changes coming 2024 ruleset and I as a DM plan on moving to the 2024 ruleset eventually, but there are a few reasons we are not ready to make that move yet. You might ask why are we not ready to just jump into 2024 now.
In both games I am running the PC's are Level 5-7. As the DM, I loathe to make big rule changes in the middle of a campaign. It's difficult to digest in game why spells, items, and character features suddenly work differently. I also wanted time to read, consider, and process the new changes. So the plan was to finish out the campaigns with the 2014 ruleset, and then move to the 2024 ruleset with whatever the next campaign is going to be. I am exceedingly glad we will be able to do this now without having to do a bunch of additional work.
For the game I am playing in the DM wants to stick with 2014 because he cannot afford to buy into 2024 just yet.
Again, thank you for listening to us! I hope in the future that the DND Beyond team will give some more consideration to plans moving forward.
There's no apology in this statement.
No apology from mods? Vocal minority my left foot! - Actually that may not be entirely fair, there is definitely a party line you have to take I'm sure. So blink twice if you need rescued mods!
I'm expecting 2014 players to have still issues with character sheets after the changes are made, and I'd bet my last copper coin that we'll be having another episode like this in the near future.
Comparisons of Hasbro WotC to abusive relationships are spot on - They don't mean it! They'll change! They love you! Then tomorrow it's out with the fists again *whack!*
Well done to the community for standing up for it's collective self, but it should never have happened in the first place. We know who we are dealing with by now.