I just wanted to say- good job. As far as I can see, you've fixed the majority of the issues people had. Maybe you don't hear it enough- thank you for your hard work.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill, 1867
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Attributed to Edmund Burke, 1961 (It is conjectured that he never said it.)
I just wanted to say- good job. As far as I can see, you've fixed the majority of the issues people had. Maybe you don't hear it enough- thank you for your hard work.
I don't see fixing obvious blunders as a good job. WotC has been touting 5.5e as backwards compatible where you will be able to mix and match however you like between 5e and 5.5e. They knew that being able to use 5e rules was important enough to a lot of people to make that promise over and over, so they had to know that not allowing it to happen in DDB would make a lot of people upset.
Backtracking after the outcry of the people they knew would be angry isn't exactly a glowing example of a job well done.
yes i know it only changed 24h ago. We are just asking what the new strategy is. The reason they are in this mess is because they didn't share their strategy before despite aproximatly half the forum asking for clarification on it for about 2 months.
And i don't buy for a second that the decision to remove support for the 2014 books from the character sheet and force us to use homebrew was taken last week.
How are their no answers on this? early access starts in a week. by then everything has to be on the site so unless the plan is to not test anything and puch it to live and hope how is there not a plan for this yet?
I mean... different from 5e14, the new edition book will be just released now. That should not mean the platform (tool set) should be ready to use, mainly because:
Without the other core books (DMG and MM) this new edition is basically incomplete. You will be playing with new edition characters against old edition monsters and the DM will have old edition guidelines, not balanced at all. So I, personally, don't get the rush to play an incomplete system.
Players and DMs should take their time to read the book/compedium before starting creating sheets or playing. (That's just my opinion tho)
It's a bit selfish (not saying that you are or that is what you think) to impair 5e14 players just to experience 5e24 a bit earlier. Patience, and everything will be set eventually, hopeful, for everyone being able to play the edition they prefer, without detriment to others. I know this a promise the WoTC made, but they should not.
Videogames have earlier access, they should stop treating TTRPGs as videogames...
i haven't bought the 2024 edition. If the books would just be published and it would be incomplete why force us to use homebrew for everything already? we can have both a good experience for the 2014 and 2024 players.
I'm glad that the changelog was able to be changed to inude the previous spells and stuff. It did not make sense to me that it was all going to just go away unless a person homebrewed it. I just assumed initially that it had something to do with reducing the data source, but it seems like that's been fixed. Yay!
I'm a bit worried about the push for video game-like content and what appears to be upcoming microtransactions for monster models for the VTT. I'm thrilled about the 3D environments, but when you look at previous digital products, i.e. Roll20, Tabletop Sim, etc., unless you built your own stuff, your were purchasing packs and I'm afraid thats where this is heading, despite how much is paid for digital and hardcopy content already.
I'm a bit worried about the push for video game-like content and what appears to be upcoming microtransactions for monster models for the VTT. I'm thrilled about the 3D environments, but when you look at previous digital products, i.e. Roll20, Tabletop Sim, etc., unless you built your own stuff, your were purchasing packs and I'm afraid thats where this is heading, despite how much is paid for digital and hardcopy content already.
i mean thats exactly where it's heading... i dont think they've hid that though. WotC are desperate to move a to a microtransaction model and its not like they weren't really doing that already with IRL stuff. You've been able to buy hero/monster plastic minis from WotC for years - i dont really see how the virtual models are that different or anything to be offended by.
I mean im all for holding WotC to account, but theirs no need to be getting upset about stuff that they've been doing for decades that's pretty standard just because they want to expand into the virtual sphere. I personally dont plan on using the DDB virtual tabletop, because I'ld rather use roll20 and as long as they don't attempt any weird predatory behavior to force us to use their virtual tabletop, i dont think we should be too negative about that particular thing.
I'm a bit worried about the push for video game-like content and what appears to be upcoming microtransactions for monster models for the VTT. I'm thrilled about the 3D environments, but when you look at previous digital products, i.e. Roll20, Tabletop Sim, etc., unless you built your own stuff, your were purchasing packs and I'm afraid thats where this is heading, despite how much is paid for digital and hardcopy content already.
i mean thats exactly where it's heading... i dont think they've hid that though. WotC are desperate to move a to a microtransaction model and its not like they weren't really doing that already with IRL stuff. You've been able to buy hero/monster plastic minis from WotC for years - i dont really see how the virtual models are that different or anything to be offended by.
I mean im all for holding WotC to account, but theirs no need to be getting upset about stuff that they've been doing for decades that's pretty standard just because they want to expand into the virtual sphere. I personally dont plan on using the DDB virtual tabletop, because I'ld rather use roll20 and as long as they don't attempt any weird predatory behavior to force us to use their virtual tabletop, i dont think we should be too negative about that particular thing.
Same, as long as I can continue playing like I have been with DDB, then I am happy for me and those that are looking forward to the 3d VTT, if it turns out as well as the maps tool already is even in alpha it should be great for those looking for a 3d VTT game.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Can we please get confirmation that character sheets/character creation will operate exactly as they do now, with tooltips displaying 2014 rules, monsters showing 2014 spells, and the entire toolset, encounter builder, etc working as it does now?
The wording of the latest announcement worries me that there are some things that might still be changing. I can live with Inspiration being named as Heroic Inspiration for example, but the devil is in the detail. Is anything else being hidden or conveniently not mentioned now to quieten the 'vocal minority' in the short term?
Very valid concerns! At this point, we don't have answers that will satisfy these questions (that doesn't mean they're answers you won't want to hear—we truly don't know!) but are working to get these clarifications.
Are there any updates on this please? I believe this is happening in like 3 days? Will it just be a case of 'surprise!' when we log in or will we get at least a heads up of any changes impacting our game in advance?
Maybe you've answered this somewhere else, but what is the logic in forcing a turnover to only a partial system? In other words, the DMG doesn't come out until November and the Monster Manual until next year. Like, was the plan just to continually update content on DDB from now until February and in the time between have neither 2014 nor 2024 fully functional?
It's just strange to me that you wouldn't do a soft optional launch now and a hard launch in February. Were we going to be forced into 2024 PHB content but then the DMG/MM 2014?
There are likely a few reasons.
A big reason is that three large hardcover books all at once would take a tremendous amount of printer capacity, which may not even be available at all. If they wait until all the books are printed, then they have to store all the existing books in warehouses just sitting there for up to half a year. That takes up space which can cost money, since they likely haven't needed to hold millions of books at the same time since the original release of 2014 (and they didn't then, it was another staggered release - it was 4e which released all the books at once).
Another reason might be that even if there was capacity to print the books, it's unlikely that WotC actually has enough staff dedicated to writing books to be working on all three books at the same time. That would have meant hiring a bunch of temporary people and paying them extra for contract work, which would naturally result in news of WotC firing its contractors once the books were done. Staggering the releases means they can, in theory, use more internal staff who are already on contract and thus there will be far fewer job cuts.
I’m currently running a campaign utilizing the 5e 2014 rule set and have been for some time. While I’ve already pre purchased the new core rules (physical and digital) my players and I have already agreed that we will be running 2014 core rules until I’ve had time to dig into the new PHB, DMG, and MM. I want to make an educated and researched decision on if we will eventually transition or not for this campaign. Having a forced transition and forced rebuilding of the current characters is not why I’ve utilized this site and features. As with many in this thread, I would prefer a toggle to choose use of 2014 or 2024, when I the DM determine which system will be used! It has always been said in the books that it’s DM discretion; therefore do not take away our autonomy to determine how our games are played/run! D&D has been around for 50years now, and the thing that Wizards should know by now is “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”
Exactly! Comfort and being informed as to the new rules is important.
I don't yet have a comprehensive understanding of all the new stuff. I've read some leaks, I participated in the playtest, but I don't have a copy of 2024 PHB in hand. It is (or at least was) entirely possible that, in the coming months, I'll decide to update my campaigns to the 2024 rules. It would be my decision, an informed decision, bolstered by informed discussion online and in-person of balance and other concerns that the new ruleset presents.
Forcing us to update, ahead of even the release of the book itself, is bizarre.
What they are doing is truly indefencible. The only logical reason for them to force us to use the 2024 update BEFORE the release of the 2024 source books is to try strong arming everyone using this site into pre-ordering the new books.
They haven't even considered that forcing us to use 2024 rules & content while TAKING AWAY content we already paid for when we still in the middle of using it is absolutely disgusting and completely disrespectful to their community.
Imagine playing or running a campaign for years only for the rules of the campaign to suddenly change without your permission while taking away spells, items and monsters you have been using for years. The subclasses you and your friends are playing broken by a forced update and not even homebrew able to fix these issues. It's a complete slap in the face to everyone currently running campaigns under the 2014 rules who want to carry on doing so.
They aren't Strong-arming us, this was literally just the spells from PHB and magic items from DMG... Do you know how many spells and magic items from those two books aren't in the basic rules/SRD?
39 Unique spells and 23 magic items.
Let's look at what spells are in there that people might actually care about?
Hex and Smite spells (smite spells will likely get moved to SRD with normal smite becoming a spell for the 2024 version of Paladin)... That's it. No one cares about the rest of the spells from 2014 PHB not in 2014 SRD.
Cleric literally only loses Feign Death. That's right, that spell most of you probably forgot existed.
SO how does THIS qualify as STRONGARMING US when they stated everything in 2014 SRD will have it's 2024 version also in SRD? This wasn't getting rid of 2014 classes or subclasses, it wasn't getting rid of 2014 feats, "races", or backgrounds... So what about this was going to force you to buy the 2024 PHB?
Maybe you've answered this somewhere else, but what is the logic in forcing a turnover to only a partial system? In other words, the DMG doesn't come out until November and the Monster Manual until next year. Like, was the plan just to continually update content on DDB from now until February and in the time between have neither 2014 nor 2024 fully functional?
It's just strange to me that you wouldn't do a soft optional launch now and a hard launch in February. Were we going to be forced into 2024 PHB content but then the DMG/MM 2014?
There are likely a few reasons.
A big reason is that three large hardcover books all at once would take a tremendous amount of printer capacity, which may not even be available at all. If they wait until all the books are printed, then they have to store all the existing books in warehouses just sitting there for up to half a year. That takes up space which can cost money, since they likely haven't needed to hold millions of books at the same time since the original release of 2014 (and they didn't then, it was another staggered release - it was 4e which released all the books at once).
Another reason might be that even if there was capacity to print the books, it's unlikely that WotC actually has enough staff dedicated to writing books to be working on all three books at the same time. That would have meant hiring a bunch of temporary people and paying them extra for contract work, which would naturally result in news of WotC firing its contractors once the books were done. Staggering the releases means they can, in theory, use more internal staff who are already on contract and thus there will be far fewer job cuts.
On that last bit, they confirmed that everything in the basic rules/SRD from 2014 would have it's 2024 version be in the basic rules/SRD as well, so this was never going to be true either.
No one was going to have to pay 90 bucks for content they already had, and this was a lie propagated by the uninformed and those looking to misinform.
So, what your saying is, despite us owning the current Players Handbook, and other sources....
Those will no longer be valid for use, and we have to cough up almost $90 just for the content we already had? WTF?!?!?!
Not true. Was never true. They always intended for 2014 classes and subclasses to stay available, and the 2014 basic rules content (which is FREE) was clarified to have their 2024 versions also be in the 2024 basic rules (WHICH WILL ALSO BE FREE).
No classes were disappearing, no subclasses were going away, no feats were going away... They were only going to update the spells from the 2014 PHB to the 2024 version, and magic items from the 2014 DMG to the 2024 DMG. Those were already the most compatible things between 2014 and 2024 classes/subclasses AND also the things with the largest percentage being in the basic rules as well.
I dare ANYONE to search their favorite spells, and see whether the source entry reads "Basic Rules (2014) in the bottom-right corner). If it reads PHB (2014) then it was actually going to be affected, and if it reads XGtE or TCoE then it was never going to be affected either way unless it were to be changed to Basic Rules (2024).
Most spells are Basic Rules (2014), so you were never going to lose access to a version of the spell, and you were never going to be charged money to "regain access".
One thing i noticed between the 2014 and 2024 Druid Class, the Sublcass Circle of Wildfire is strictly in Tasha's and The Circle of Shepard is strictly in Xanathar's would the druid of the 2024 phb can go to either of those circles? because the examples of backwards compatability was a little vague from what i read on the changelog article.
No one was going to have to pay 90 bucks for content they already had, and this was a lie propagated by the uninformed and those looking to misinform.
Good thing then, that pretty much no one was saying that.
The actual complaint was existing characters, many of which are in existing, ongoing campaigns, would have tooltips for spells and some other things get forcibly updated to point to the 2024 version rules, which means there would inevitably be rules confusions, especially for tables which use a mix of sources for rules (DDB and physical books). At least 181 spells have some changes, some of which are major re-writes, and as such could break existing characters, especially the Circle of Shepard Druid. The biggest selling point of DDB is and has always been the convenience and ease of looking things up right on the character sheets, and instead needing to go look in the Compendium removes that ease. In addition, that change means that no new characters could be created as operating purely on the 2014 rules, it would always be that mix.
This all came with only about two weeks notice before the change, despite people asking for information about this pretty much since the news of the new edition was announced, and WotC reassuring people that the 2024 version was fully backwards compatible, and that their existing characters would be unchanged.
I hope that clears up your understanding of the discussion it doesn't seem like you read.
Sigh 😕 I was hoping to move to the 2024 rules and spells for all my PCs and Homebrew Monsters, but Artificer is stuck with 2014 spells and my home brew all has 2014 spells... Not sure if I'm missing something?
Where are the Legacy and Expanded Rules Eldritch Invocations?
You said "Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters. Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
So where is Phantom Rogue, an official WOTC published subclass in TCoE?
Where are the following invocations?:
Eldritch Smite (Legacy)
Aspect of the Moon
Beast Speech
Beguiling Influence
Bewitching Whispers
All Talisman ones
Book of Ancient Secrets
Chains of Carceri
Cloak of the Flies
Dreadful Word
Eldritch Sight
Eyes of the Runekeeper
Far Scribe
Ghostly Gaze
Gift of the Everliving Ones
Grasp of Hadar
Improved pact weapon
Lance of Lethargy
Maddening Hex
Minions of Chaos
Mire the Mind
Relentless Hex
Sculptor of Flesh
Shroud of Shadows
Sign of Ill Omen
Thief of Five Fates
Tomb of Levistus
Tricksters Escape
Undying Servitude
Voice of the Chain Master
And most importantly, why did none of the above even get MENTIONED in the bug support thread about content you are aware is missing and being worked on? Did you forget Phantom Rogue existed? Are you attempting to sweep legacy and expanded rules Eldritch Invocations under the rug like you tried spells, magic items, and other player options? There needs to be a response to this clarifying the intentions for ALL character options from 2014-2024 being available as promised and advertised.
This sucks. This is what we didn't want, this isn't easy to understand either. All this does is draw players away from the game. why put all 2014 content in as legacy? because of that ridiculous change there are now two legacy goliaths. WTF Hasbro. really trying to get your money's worth from this BS of an "edition".
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ozzy
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And also that generic features system that was promised years ago?
I just wanted to say- good job. As far as I can see, you've fixed the majority of the issues people had. Maybe you don't hear it enough- thank you for your hard work.
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill, 1867
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Attributed to Edmund Burke, 1961 (It is conjectured that he never said it.)
I don't see fixing obvious blunders as a good job. WotC has been touting 5.5e as backwards compatible where you will be able to mix and match however you like between 5e and 5.5e. They knew that being able to use 5e rules was important enough to a lot of people to make that promise over and over, so they had to know that not allowing it to happen in DDB would make a lot of people upset.
Backtracking after the outcry of the people they knew would be angry isn't exactly a glowing example of a job well done.
yes i know it only changed 24h ago. We are just asking what the new strategy is. The reason they are in this mess is because they didn't share their strategy before despite aproximatly half the forum asking for clarification on it for about 2 months.
And i don't buy for a second that the decision to remove support for the 2014 books from the character sheet and force us to use homebrew was taken last week.
i haven't bought the 2024 edition. If the books would just be published and it would be incomplete why force us to use homebrew for everything already? we can have both a good experience for the 2014 and 2024 players.
fully agree on the last statement
I'm glad that the changelog was able to be changed to inude the previous spells and stuff. It did not make sense to me that it was all going to just go away unless a person homebrewed it. I just assumed initially that it had something to do with reducing the data source, but it seems like that's been fixed. Yay!
I'm a bit worried about the push for video game-like content and what appears to be upcoming microtransactions for monster models for the VTT. I'm thrilled about the 3D environments, but when you look at previous digital products, i.e. Roll20, Tabletop Sim, etc., unless you built your own stuff, your were purchasing packs and I'm afraid thats where this is heading, despite how much is paid for digital and hardcopy content already.
i mean thats exactly where it's heading... i dont think they've hid that though. WotC are desperate to move a to a microtransaction model and its not like they weren't really doing that already with IRL stuff. You've been able to buy hero/monster plastic minis from WotC for years - i dont really see how the virtual models are that different or anything to be offended by.
I mean im all for holding WotC to account, but theirs no need to be getting upset about stuff that they've been doing for decades that's pretty standard just because they want to expand into the virtual sphere. I personally dont plan on using the DDB virtual tabletop, because I'ld rather use roll20 and as long as they don't attempt any weird predatory behavior to force us to use their virtual tabletop, i dont think we should be too negative about that particular thing.
Same, as long as I can continue playing like I have been with DDB, then I am happy for me and those that are looking forward to the 3d VTT, if it turns out as well as the maps tool already is even in alpha it should be great for those looking for a 3d VTT game.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Are there any updates on this please? I believe this is happening in like 3 days? Will it just be a case of 'surprise!' when we log in or will we get at least a heads up of any changes impacting our game in advance?
So, what your saying is, despite us owning the current Players Handbook, and other sources....
Those will no longer be valid for use, and we have to cough up almost $90 just for the content we already had? WTF?!?!?!
There are likely a few reasons.
A big reason is that three large hardcover books all at once would take a tremendous amount of printer capacity, which may not even be available at all. If they wait until all the books are printed, then they have to store all the existing books in warehouses just sitting there for up to half a year. That takes up space which can cost money, since they likely haven't needed to hold millions of books at the same time since the original release of 2014 (and they didn't then, it was another staggered release - it was 4e which released all the books at once).
Another reason might be that even if there was capacity to print the books, it's unlikely that WotC actually has enough staff dedicated to writing books to be working on all three books at the same time. That would have meant hiring a bunch of temporary people and paying them extra for contract work, which would naturally result in news of WotC firing its contractors once the books were done. Staggering the releases means they can, in theory, use more internal staff who are already on contract and thus there will be far fewer job cuts.
No, they've since walked back those changes, due to a lot of the well-justified outrage.
They aren't Strong-arming us, this was literally just the spells from PHB and magic items from DMG... Do you know how many spells and magic items from those two books aren't in the basic rules/SRD?
39 Unique spells and 23 magic items.
Let's look at what spells are in there that people might actually care about?
Hex and Smite spells (smite spells will likely get moved to SRD with normal smite becoming a spell for the 2024 version of Paladin)... That's it. No one cares about the rest of the spells from 2014 PHB not in 2014 SRD.
Cleric literally only loses Feign Death. That's right, that spell most of you probably forgot existed.
SO how does THIS qualify as STRONGARMING US when they stated everything in 2014 SRD will have it's 2024 version also in SRD? This wasn't getting rid of 2014 classes or subclasses, it wasn't getting rid of 2014 feats, "races", or backgrounds... So what about this was going to force you to buy the 2024 PHB?
NOTHING.
On that last bit, they confirmed that everything in the basic rules/SRD from 2014 would have it's 2024 version be in the basic rules/SRD as well, so this was never going to be true either.
No one was going to have to pay 90 bucks for content they already had, and this was a lie propagated by the uninformed and those looking to misinform.
Not true. Was never true. They always intended for 2014 classes and subclasses to stay available, and the 2014 basic rules content (which is FREE) was clarified to have their 2024 versions also be in the 2024 basic rules (WHICH WILL ALSO BE FREE).
No classes were disappearing, no subclasses were going away, no feats were going away... They were only going to update the spells from the 2014 PHB to the 2024 version, and magic items from the 2014 DMG to the 2024 DMG. Those were already the most compatible things between 2014 and 2024 classes/subclasses AND also the things with the largest percentage being in the basic rules as well.
I dare ANYONE to search their favorite spells, and see whether the source entry reads "Basic Rules (2014) in the bottom-right corner). If it reads PHB (2014) then it was actually going to be affected, and if it reads XGtE or TCoE then it was never going to be affected either way unless it were to be changed to Basic Rules (2024).
Most spells are Basic Rules (2014), so you were never going to lose access to a version of the spell, and you were never going to be charged money to "regain access".
One thing i noticed between the 2014 and 2024 Druid Class, the Sublcass Circle of Wildfire is strictly in Tasha's and The Circle of Shepard is strictly in Xanathar's would the druid of the 2024 phb can go to either of those circles? because the examples of backwards compatability was a little vague from what i read on the changelog article.
Carzira Jolin
Loremaster - Silverymoon
Good thing then, that pretty much no one was saying that.
The actual complaint was existing characters, many of which are in existing, ongoing campaigns, would have tooltips for spells and some other things get forcibly updated to point to the 2024 version rules, which means there would inevitably be rules confusions, especially for tables which use a mix of sources for rules (DDB and physical books). At least 181 spells have some changes, some of which are major re-writes, and as such could break existing characters, especially the Circle of Shepard Druid. The biggest selling point of DDB is and has always been the convenience and ease of looking things up right on the character sheets, and instead needing to go look in the Compendium removes that ease. In addition, that change means that no new characters could be created as operating purely on the 2014 rules, it would always be that mix.
This all came with only about two weeks notice before the change, despite people asking for information about this pretty much since the news of the new edition was announced, and WotC reassuring people that the 2024 version was fully backwards compatible, and that their existing characters would be unchanged.
I hope that clears up your understanding of the discussion it doesn't seem like you read.
Sigh 😕 I was hoping to move to the 2024 rules and spells for all my PCs and Homebrew Monsters, but Artificer is stuck with 2014 spells and my home brew all has 2014 spells... Not sure if I'm missing something?
Where is Phantom Rogue?
Where are the Legacy and Expanded Rules Eldritch Invocations?
You said
"Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters. Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
So where is Phantom Rogue, an official WOTC published subclass in TCoE?
Where are the following invocations?:
Aspect of the Moon
Beast Speech
Beguiling Influence
Bewitching Whispers
All Talisman ones
Book of Ancient Secrets
Chains of Carceri
Cloak of the Flies
Dreadful Word
Eldritch Sight
Eyes of the Runekeeper
Far Scribe
Ghostly Gaze
Gift of the Everliving Ones
Grasp of Hadar
Improved pact weapon
Lance of Lethargy
Maddening Hex
Minions of Chaos
Mire the Mind
Relentless Hex
Sculptor of Flesh
Shroud of Shadows
Sign of Ill Omen
Thief of Five Fates
Tomb of Levistus
Tricksters Escape
Undying Servitude
Voice of the Chain Master
And most importantly, why did none of the above even get MENTIONED in the bug support thread about content you are aware is missing and being worked on? Did you forget Phantom Rogue existed? Are you attempting to sweep legacy and expanded rules Eldritch Invocations under the rug like you tried spells, magic items, and other player options? There needs to be a response to this clarifying the intentions for ALL character options from 2014-2024 being available as promised and advertised.
This sucks. This is what we didn't want, this isn't easy to understand either. All this does is draw players away from the game. why put all 2014 content in as legacy? because of that ridiculous change there are now two legacy goliaths. WTF Hasbro. really trying to get your money's worth from this BS of an "edition".
ozzy