I think that if we gave a laptop and the source code of DnD Beyond to a chimpanzee, they would do a better job, honestly. You only had two jobs: 1. Duplicate the Toolset, the same way you probably have for coding on it before launch. (Unless you code live, which now I don't doubt it). 2. Make the user choose for which edition they desire to make the character sheet for BEFORE starting to create the character. You already have that page!!!
You would not need Legacy Tags, because each character would be set for the set of rules they were created by, chosen by the user. It would not be the mess of spells and conditions that it is now (Because one thing D&D needs is more text and complications, right?).
Glad I did not renew my subscription yet, I knew you guys would **** it up, and I don't doubt it was purposely, just to say "Look, we did what you asked, see how shitty it is?" like a child.
This company is (hopefully) going down by the day, good luck to everyone who still on this ship, I'm changing systems as soon as I can.
2. Make the user choose for which edition they desire to make the character sheet for BEFORE starting to create the character. You already have that page!!!
You would not need Legacy Tags, because each character would be set for the set of rules they were created by, chosen by the user. It would not be the mess of spells and conditions that it is now (Because one thing D&D needs is more text and complications, right?).
This would have COMPLETELY destroyed the premise of the "2024 PHB" by making it self-contained and unable to be used with legacy/expanded content, completely the opposite of their advertised "backwards compatibility" and honestly would have probably tanked the edition.
What they should have done instead of this "half edition that is backwards compatible" nonsense compromise is thusly:
Release the 2024 PHB as an errata of the 2014 PHB, complete with it being free for online owners of the PHB.
Actually put in the effort to take all the content 5e currently had, and modernizing and updating it into a 6th edition.
Right now we have to pay for a glorified errata that has caused dozens of coding failures because it's neither a errata nor a new edition. Once it's all said and done and all legacy and expanded rules content is able to be used on 2024 character sheets seamlessly, this will be less of an issue- but it will never be optimal. If they don't fix backwards compatibility for things like legacy/expanded rules eldritch invocations there will be a huge gap between DNDbeyond's PHB and the real game- which is something they cannot afford to allow.
2. Make the user choose for which edition they desire to make the character sheet for BEFORE starting to create the character. You already have that page!!!
You would not need Legacy Tags, because each character would be set for the set of rules they were created by, chosen by the user. It would not be the mess of spells and conditions that it is now (Because one thing D&D needs is more text and complications, right?).
This would have COMPLETELY destroyed the premise of the "2024 PHB" by making it self-contained and unable to be used with legacy/expanded content, completely the opposite of their advertised "backwards compatibility" and honestly would have probably tanked the edition.
Good! It was a terrible lie and marketing strategies.
But also, you are wrong about this not serving to their lie. What 5e24 players would have and see is what we are seeing today. A character sheet with the feature to opt-out from Legacy content only. If they would like to support WoTC's lie, they just turn it on, if they have enough brain mass to figure that those rulesets are not compatible, they turn it off. Simple!
While 5e14 players would have the old toolset, exactly how it was like... yesterday. No changes, everything flowing just as usual Things should only change for 5e24 players, not for 5e14 players.
What they should have done instead of this "half edition that is backwards compatible" nonsense compromise is thusly:
Release the 2024 PHB as an errata of the 2014 PHB, complete with it being free for online owners of the PHB.
Actually put in the effort to take all the content 5e currently had, and modernizing and updating it into a 6th edition.
Right now we have to pay for a glorified errata that has caused dozens of coding failures because it's neither a errata nor a new edition. Once it's all said and done and all legacy and expanded rules content is able to be used on 2024 character sheets seamlessly, this will be less of an issue- but it will never be optimal. If they don't fix backwards compatibility for things like legacy/expanded rules eldritch invocations there will be a huge gap between DNDbeyond's PHB and the real game- which is something they cannot afford to allow.
I have 60 pages of forum discussion and thousands of comments all over social media that would prove your point wrong. Nobody wanted the 5e24 rules as an errata, and nobody is forcing you to buy the new books. You want people to adopt new rules that they did not ask because you can't/won't buy the books? LoL
Where are the Legacy and Expanded Rules Eldritch Invocations?
You said "Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters. Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
So where is Phantom Rogue, an official WOTC published subclass in TCoE?
Where are the following invocations?:
[snip]
And most importantly, why did none of the above even get MENTIONED in the bug support thread about content you are aware is missing and being worked on? Did you forget Phantom Rogue existed? Are you attempting to sweep legacy and expanded rules Eldritch Invocations under the rug like you tried spells, magic items, and other player options? There needs to be a response to this clarifying the intentions for ALL character options from 2014-2024 being available as promised and advertised.
With the invocations what kind of character are you trying them on?
After reading your post I did a quick look at a warlock of mine (5.0 rules) and went to edit his invocations. I did see Aspect of the Moon, Thief of Five Fates and Grasp of Hadar in the list of options. I didn't check all of the ones you listed (he's not high enough level or with the correct pact boon for some of them anyways) but those ones were showing up for me.
So, for sake of clarity, might be worth double-checking if your warlock was with a 5.0 warlock or a 5.5 warlock.
@TheRealCarian, aside from the addition of the 5.5 spells and such to the options in the character sheets, have you noticed anything off with 5.0 characters? I did a little check of a few of mine earlier today just to make sure nothing got broken and it seemed like they were all fine. They kept their current spells. A lv1 Trickery cleric still had his subclass. A character with potions of healing in his inventory kept the current version. And a warlock with Book of Ancient Secrets could still add more and more rituals to his book along with 2nd level rituals. (I assume it'll still work when he unlocks 3rd+ level spells too.) So I'm wondering if there's something I've missed.
@TheRealCarian, aside from the addition of the 5.5 spells and such to the options in the character sheets, have you noticed anything off with 5.0 characters? I did a little check of a few of mine earlier today just to make sure nothing got broken and it seemed like they were all fine. They kept their current spells. A lv1 Trickery cleric still had his subclass. A character with potions of healing in his inventory kept the current version. And a warlock with Book of Ancient Secrets could still add more and more rituals to his book along with 2nd level rituals. (I assume it'll still work when he unlocks 3rd+ level spells too.) So I'm wondering if there's something I've missed.
Everything seems to be working fine, it's just a mess like I previously stated (even before the update).
I also tested what Friosis claim it is not working, and is working just fine... Most likely, they have the "expanded rules" toggle turned off.
The Magic Initiate Feat (Cleric) from the Acolyte Background does not list the first level spell as always prepared but does list the one free use and does instead give an extra Spells Known to be prepared. I believe this happens with all versions of this feat.
2. Make the user choose for which edition they desire to make the character sheet for BEFORE starting to create the character. You already have that page!!!
You would not need Legacy Tags, because each character would be set for the set of rules they were created by, chosen by the user. It would not be the mess of spells and conditions that it is now (Because one thing D&D needs is more text and complications, right?).
This would have COMPLETELY destroyed the premise of the "2024 PHB" by making it self-contained and unable to be used with legacy/expanded content, completely the opposite of their advertised "backwards compatibility" and honestly would have probably tanked the edition.
Good! It was a terrible lie and marketing strategies.
But also, you are wrong about this not serving to their lie. What 5e24 players would have and see is what we are seeing today. A character sheet with the feature to opt-out from Legacy content only. If they would like to support WoTC's lie, they just turn it on, if they have enough brain mass to figure that those rulesets are not compatible, they turn it off. Simple!
While 5e14 players would have the old toolset, exactly how it was like... yesterday. No changes, everything flowing just as usual Things should only change for 5e24 players, not for 5e14 players.
What they should have done instead of this "half edition that is backwards compatible" nonsense compromise is thusly:
Release the 2024 PHB as an errata of the 2014 PHB, complete with it being free for online owners of the PHB.
Actually put in the effort to take all the content 5e currently had, and modernizing and updating it into a 6th edition.
Right now we have to pay for a glorified errata that has caused dozens of coding failures because it's neither a errata nor a new edition. Once it's all said and done and all legacy and expanded rules content is able to be used on 2024 character sheets seamlessly, this will be less of an issue- but it will never be optimal. If they don't fix backwards compatibility for things like legacy/expanded rules eldritch invocations there will be a huge gap between DNDbeyond's PHB and the real game- which is something they cannot afford to allow.
I have 60 pages of forum discussion and thousands of comments all over social media that would prove your point wrong. Nobody wanted the 5e24 rules as an errata, and nobody is forcing you to buy the new books. You want people to adopt new rules that they did not ask because you can't/won't buy the books? LoL
So you'd rather the company go under and stops publishing books? You sound like a raging contrarian right now. "Nobody wanted 5e24 rules as an errata" probably because they made far too many subjective changes rather than objective improvements in an effort to distinct it from an errata to justify selling it back to you. If it had just been an eratta on all the jank in 5e proper, rather than a bunch of controversial "updates" like gutting ranger- it would have been fine as an errata. You are way too heated about this topic yaknow.
2. Make the user choose for which edition they desire to make the character sheet for BEFORE starting to create the character. You already have that page!!!
You would not need Legacy Tags, because each character would be set for the set of rules they were created by, chosen by the user. It would not be the mess of spells and conditions that it is now (Because one thing D&D needs is more text and complications, right?).
This would have COMPLETELY destroyed the premise of the "2024 PHB" by making it self-contained and unable to be used with legacy/expanded content, completely the opposite of their advertised "backwards compatibility" and honestly would have probably tanked the edition.
Good! It was a terrible lie and marketing strategies.
But also, you are wrong about this not serving to their lie. What 5e24 players would have and see is what we are seeing today. A character sheet with the feature to opt-out from Legacy content only. If they would like to support WoTC's lie, they just turn it on, if they have enough brain mass to figure that those rulesets are not compatible, they turn it off. Simple!
While 5e14 players would have the old toolset, exactly how it was like... yesterday. No changes, everything flowing just as usual Things should only change for 5e24 players, not for 5e14 players.
What they should have done instead of this "half edition that is backwards compatible" nonsense compromise is thusly:
Release the 2024 PHB as an errata of the 2014 PHB, complete with it being free for online owners of the PHB.
Actually put in the effort to take all the content 5e currently had, and modernizing and updating it into a 6th edition.
Right now we have to pay for a glorified errata that has caused dozens of coding failures because it's neither a errata nor a new edition. Once it's all said and done and all legacy and expanded rules content is able to be used on 2024 character sheets seamlessly, this will be less of an issue- but it will never be optimal. If they don't fix backwards compatibility for things like legacy/expanded rules eldritch invocations there will be a huge gap between DNDbeyond's PHB and the real game- which is something they cannot afford to allow.
I have 60 pages of forum discussion and thousands of comments all over social media that would prove your point wrong. Nobody wanted the 5e24 rules as an errata, and nobody is forcing you to buy the new books. You want people to adopt new rules that they did not ask because you can't/won't buy the books? LoL
And now you're just being rude and spiteful for no god damn reason. Touch grass mr "I HOPE THE COMPANY MAKING THE GAME I LOVE SO MUCH DIES".
Where are the Legacy and Expanded Rules Eldritch Invocations?
You said "Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters. Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
So where is Phantom Rogue, an official WOTC published subclass in TCoE?
Where are the following invocations?:
[snip]
And most importantly, why did none of the above even get MENTIONED in the bug support thread about content you are aware is missing and being worked on? Did you forget Phantom Rogue existed? Are you attempting to sweep legacy and expanded rules Eldritch Invocations under the rug like you tried spells, magic items, and other player options? There needs to be a response to this clarifying the intentions for ALL character options from 2014-2024 being available as promised and advertised.
With the invocations what kind of character are you trying them on?
After reading your post I did a quick look at a warlock of mine (5.0 rules) and went to edit his invocations. I did see Aspect of the Moon, Thief of Five Fates and Grasp of Hadar in the list of options. I didn't check all of the ones you listed (he's not high enough level or with the correct pact boon for some of them anyways) but those ones were showing up for me.
So, for sake of clarity, might be worth double-checking if your warlock was with a 5.0 warlock or a 5.5 warlock.
@TheRealCarian, aside from the addition of the 5.5 spells and such to the options in the character sheets, have you noticed anything off with 5.0 characters? I did a little check of a few of mine earlier today just to make sure nothing got broken and it seemed like they were all fine. They kept their current spells. A lv1 Trickery cleric still had his subclass. A character with potions of healing in his inventory kept the current version. And a warlock with Book of Ancient Secrets could still add more and more rituals to his book along with 2nd level rituals. (I assume it'll still work when he unlocks 3rd+ level spells too.) So I'm wondering if there's something I've missed.
A 5.5e warlock should be able to use 5.0 Invocations. You can use legacy feats and expanded feats, legacy spells and expanded spells. Why does 5.5e warlock not have eldritch invocation options from 5e? They said "all character choices" would be backwards compatible. Eldritch Invocation was even mentioned in the FAQ as one of the things a 2024 warlock will "be able to reference in their character sheet".
Why didn't you test both 5e and 5.5e's warlock before commenting??? You would have figured it out really quick, did you forget 5.5e exists and is supposed to be backwards compatible?
@TheRealCarian, aside from the addition of the 5.5 spells and such to the options in the character sheets, have you noticed anything off with 5.0 characters? I did a little check of a few of mine earlier today just to make sure nothing got broken and it seemed like they were all fine. They kept their current spells. A lv1 Trickery cleric still had his subclass. A character with potions of healing in his inventory kept the current version. And a warlock with Book of Ancient Secrets could still add more and more rituals to his book along with 2nd level rituals. (I assume it'll still work when he unlocks 3rd+ level spells too.) So I'm wondering if there's something I've missed.
Everything seems to be working fine, it's just a mess like I previously stated (even before the update).
I also tested what Friosis claim it is not working, and is working just fine... Most likely, they have the "expanded rules" toggle turned off.
so now you're just straight up lying. 2024 warlock is not working "just fine" and this leads me to believe you're trolling for the sake of outrage.
"I could get better feedback from a chimpanzee." "This forum is (hopefully) going down by the day, and I hope to switch to a new method of communication with the devs soon" /s
2. Make the user choose for which edition they desire to make the character sheet for BEFORE starting to create the character. You already have that page!!!
You would not need Legacy Tags, because each character would be set for the set of rules they were created by, chosen by the user. It would not be the mess of spells and conditions that it is now (Because one thing D&D needs is more text and complications, right?).
This would have COMPLETELY destroyed the premise of the "2024 PHB" by making it self-contained and unable to be used with legacy/expanded content, completely the opposite of their advertised "backwards compatibility" and honestly would have probably tanked the edition.
Good! It was a terrible lie and marketing strategies.
But also, you are wrong about this not serving to their lie. What 5e24 players would have and see is what we are seeing today. A character sheet with the feature to opt-out from Legacy content only. If they would like to support WoTC's lie, they just turn it on, if they have enough brain mass to figure that those rulesets are not compatible, they turn it off. Simple!
While 5e14 players would have the old toolset, exactly how it was like... yesterday. No changes, everything flowing just as usual Things should only change for 5e24 players, not for 5e14 players.
What they should have done instead of this "half edition that is backwards compatible" nonsense compromise is thusly:
Release the 2024 PHB as an errata of the 2014 PHB, complete with it being free for online owners of the PHB.
Actually put in the effort to take all the content 5e currently had, and modernizing and updating it into a 6th edition.
Right now we have to pay for a glorified errata that has caused dozens of coding failures because it's neither a errata nor a new edition. Once it's all said and done and all legacy and expanded rules content is able to be used on 2024 character sheets seamlessly, this will be less of an issue- but it will never be optimal. If they don't fix backwards compatibility for things like legacy/expanded rules eldritch invocations there will be a huge gap between DNDbeyond's PHB and the real game- which is something they cannot afford to allow.
I have 60 pages of forum discussion and thousands of comments all over social media that would prove your point wrong. Nobody wanted the 5e24 rules as an errata, and nobody is forcing you to buy the new books. You want people to adopt new rules that they did not ask because you can't/won't buy the books? LoL
So you'd rather the company go under and stops publishing books? You sound like a raging contrarian right now. "Nobody wanted 5e24 rules as an errata" probably because they made far too many subjective changes rather than objective improvements in an effort to distinct it from an errata to justify selling it back to you. If it had just been an eratta on all the jank in 5e proper, rather than a bunch of controversial "updates" like gutting ranger- it would have been fine as an errata. You are way too heated about this topic yaknow.
2. Make the user choose for which edition they desire to make the character sheet for BEFORE starting to create the character. You already have that page!!!
You would not need Legacy Tags, because each character would be set for the set of rules they were created by, chosen by the user. It would not be the mess of spells and conditions that it is now (Because one thing D&D needs is more text and complications, right?).
This would have COMPLETELY destroyed the premise of the "2024 PHB" by making it self-contained and unable to be used with legacy/expanded content, completely the opposite of their advertised "backwards compatibility" and honestly would have probably tanked the edition.
Good! It was a terrible lie and marketing strategies.
But also, you are wrong about this not serving to their lie. What 5e24 players would have and see is what we are seeing today. A character sheet with the feature to opt-out from Legacy content only. If they would like to support WoTC's lie, they just turn it on, if they have enough brain mass to figure that those rulesets are not compatible, they turn it off. Simple!
While 5e14 players would have the old toolset, exactly how it was like... yesterday. No changes, everything flowing just as usual Things should only change for 5e24 players, not for 5e14 players.
What they should have done instead of this "half edition that is backwards compatible" nonsense compromise is thusly:
Release the 2024 PHB as an errata of the 2014 PHB, complete with it being free for online owners of the PHB.
Actually put in the effort to take all the content 5e currently had, and modernizing and updating it into a 6th edition.
Right now we have to pay for a glorified errata that has caused dozens of coding failures because it's neither a errata nor a new edition. Once it's all said and done and all legacy and expanded rules content is able to be used on 2024 character sheets seamlessly, this will be less of an issue- but it will never be optimal. If they don't fix backwards compatibility for things like legacy/expanded rules eldritch invocations there will be a huge gap between DNDbeyond's PHB and the real game- which is something they cannot afford to allow.
I have 60 pages of forum discussion and thousands of comments all over social media that would prove your point wrong. Nobody wanted the 5e24 rules as an errata, and nobody is forcing you to buy the new books. You want people to adopt new rules that they did not ask because you can't/won't buy the books? LoL
And now you're just being rude and spiteful for no god damn reason. Touch grass mr "I HOPE THE COMPANY MAKING THE GAME I LOVE SO MUCH DIES".
Where are the Legacy and Expanded Rules Eldritch Invocations?
You said "Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters. Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
So where is Phantom Rogue, an official WOTC published subclass in TCoE?
Where are the following invocations?:
[snip]
And most importantly, why did none of the above even get MENTIONED in the bug support thread about content you are aware is missing and being worked on? Did you forget Phantom Rogue existed? Are you attempting to sweep legacy and expanded rules Eldritch Invocations under the rug like you tried spells, magic items, and other player options? There needs to be a response to this clarifying the intentions for ALL character options from 2014-2024 being available as promised and advertised.
With the invocations what kind of character are you trying them on?
After reading your post I did a quick look at a warlock of mine (5.0 rules) and went to edit his invocations. I did see Aspect of the Moon, Thief of Five Fates and Grasp of Hadar in the list of options. I didn't check all of the ones you listed (he's not high enough level or with the correct pact boon for some of them anyways) but those ones were showing up for me.
So, for sake of clarity, might be worth double-checking if your warlock was with a 5.0 warlock or a 5.5 warlock.
@TheRealCarian, aside from the addition of the 5.5 spells and such to the options in the character sheets, have you noticed anything off with 5.0 characters? I did a little check of a few of mine earlier today just to make sure nothing got broken and it seemed like they were all fine. They kept their current spells. A lv1 Trickery cleric still had his subclass. A character with potions of healing in his inventory kept the current version. And a warlock with Book of Ancient Secrets could still add more and more rituals to his book along with 2nd level rituals. (I assume it'll still work when he unlocks 3rd+ level spells too.) So I'm wondering if there's something I've missed.
A 5.5e warlock should be able to use 5.0 Invocations. You can use legacy feats and expanded feats, legacy spells and expanded spells. Why does 5.5e warlock not have eldritch invocation options from 5e? They said "all character choices" would be backwards compatible. Eldritch Invocation was even mentioned in the FAQ as one of the things a 2024 warlock will "be able to reference in their character sheet".
Why didn't you test both 5e and 5.5e's warlock before commenting??? You would have figured it out really quick, did you forget 5.5e exists and is supposed to be backwards compatible?
@TheRealCarian, aside from the addition of the 5.5 spells and such to the options in the character sheets, have you noticed anything off with 5.0 characters? I did a little check of a few of mine earlier today just to make sure nothing got broken and it seemed like they were all fine. They kept their current spells. A lv1 Trickery cleric still had his subclass. A character with potions of healing in his inventory kept the current version. And a warlock with Book of Ancient Secrets could still add more and more rituals to his book along with 2nd level rituals. (I assume it'll still work when he unlocks 3rd+ level spells too.) So I'm wondering if there's something I've missed.
Everything seems to be working fine, it's just a mess like I previously stated (even before the update).
I also tested what Friosis claim it is not working, and is working just fine... Most likely, they have the "expanded rules" toggle turned off.
so now you're just straight up lying. 2024 warlock is not working "just fine" and this leads me to believe you're trolling for the sake of outrage.
"I could get better feedback from a chimpanzee." "This forum is (hopefully) going down by the day, and I hope to switch to a new method of communication with the devs soon" /s
Where did they say all options for 2014 classes would be open to 2024 classes? As far as I can tell, the Invocations from Tasha's belong to the 2014 Warlock specifically. While they share spell lists and subclasses, they're different classes for all other intents and purposes.
I'll admit, I have only read around 20 of these comments, but Clearly there are people on a number of different sides, each with it's own opinion on what should be done. I won't really bother to reply to specific posts, and just say what I think should be done. I believe that in short, we should have the option to choose if we want to use 2024 or 2014 before making a character, as someone said before. Or, maybe do something were there are two tabs/pages to switch between. On has 2024 characters, where you go to view, edit, and create 2024 characters, and another for 2014. I do believe that although D&DB did try to kinda fix the problem, they still botched it. Really, I don't care to much exactly how they do it, as long as they make it better.
I also don't understand why they don't give us access to all of the classes and whatnot, without buying the books. They did it for 2014, so why change it?
I also don't understand why they don't give us access to all of the classes and whatnot, without buying the books. They did it for 2014, so why change it?
When the 2024 Player’s Handbook sees its wide release on September 17, we’ll do a full release of the 2024 D&D Free Rules. This will include the remaining base classes—Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, and Warlock—as well as one subclass for each class. The full release will also contain more spells and feats.
The 2024 D&D Free Rules will see their full release alongside the 2024 Player’s Handbook in September. When the 2024 Dungeon Master’s Guideand 2024 Monster Manual later release, we will expand the 2024 D&D Free Rules with content from those books.
Where did they say all options for 2014 classes would be open to 2024 classes? As far as I can tell, the Invocations from Tasha's belong to the 2014 Warlock specifically. While they share spell lists and subclasses, they're different classes for all other intents and purposes.
You said "Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters. Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
This is a direct quote from DNDbeyond's FAQ. 2014 Invocations are "Character options" and "player options", just like spells, just like magical items. We had outrage over their attempt to get rid of old spells and magical items for a reason.
If I get a single argument for why you think it's reasonable to get rid of over half the invocations that exist for warlock, that people paid for, and were promised would be usable with the "backwards compatible 2024 classes" I'm going to assume you're either some kind of troll or being paid by WOTC to defend them.
Why would you ever die on the hill called "Everything from 2014 is dead, and locked to the old game they won't sell anymore, and you're entitled for thinking the "backwards compatible classes" would be backwards compatible with things that I think are locked to 2014's rules for no discernible reason"
??? You can use Tasha's, Xanathars, and 2014 PHB invocations in the actual game and on other sites like roll 20 or foundry with the 2024 warlock. Why in gods name would DNDbeyond get a pass for that not being the case for them???
This is a net loss for the consumer at the benefit of nobody. Do you just hate the existence of 2014 content- or are you trying to make the 2024 classes WORSE???
I'll admit, I have only read around 20 of these comments, but Clearly there are people on a number of different sides, each with it's own opinion on what should be done. I won't really bother to reply to specific posts, and just say what I think should be done. I believe that in short, we should have the option to choose if we want to use 2024 or 2014 before making a character, as someone said before. Or, maybe do something were there are two tabs/pages to switch between. On has 2024 characters, where you go to view, edit, and create 2024 characters, and another for 2014. I do believe that although D&DB did try to kinda fix the problem, they still botched it. Really, I don't care to much exactly how they do it, as long as they make it better.
I also don't understand why they don't give us access to all of the classes and whatnot, without buying the books. They did it for 2014, so why change it?
The answer is simple, the only people complicating it are pushing some kind of insane agenda.
The answer is have an additional toggle above "legacy content" and "expanded rules" called "2024 content". If you have all three set- you can use anything, spells, invocations, subclasses etc from every sourcebook on every variation of a class or character. EX: A 2024 warlock should be able to use legacy/expanded content invocations, subclasses, and spells.
And for the people who hate the 2024 content (but bought the phb anyway????) who can't stand the thought of seeing them- they can turn the toggle of "2024 content" off and it's like nothing changed before maintenance yesterday.
This entire thing about "oooh we should have two different kinds of character sheets with a toggle, one where you can ONLY use 2024 content and one where you can ONLY USE 2014 content!" is a knee jerk reaction that solves nothing, and makes the site actively more unfriendly to users and new players. This would completely defy all logic and reasoning for what got us into this mess. The point that got us here was backwards compatibility, removing backwards compatibility because of spite or nostalgia doesn't fix the problem, it just makes the trouble we went through worthless and kills the new content- after a DROUGHT of quality content for two years in preparation for the 2024 update.
Of course the REAL answer would have been: Delay release and early access, make everything function as intended with proper testing before letting anyone touch it, and include the ability to filter out 2024 content instead of letting everyone and their mother pay for a beta test.
Or they could have just chosen not to doubled down on making their "new edition" not really being a "new edition" because it's "Backwards compatible" and immediately making everything as clear as mud. Then attempting to sell a glorified errata.
Where did they say all options for 2014 classes would be open to 2024 classes? As far as I can tell, the Invocations from Tasha's belong to the 2014 Warlock specifically. While they share spell lists and subclasses, they're different classes for all other intents and purposes.
You said "Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets. Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters. Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
This is a direct quote from DNDbeyond's FAQ. 2014 Invocations are "Character options" and "player options", just like spells, just like magical items. We had outrage over their attempt to get rid of old spells and magical items for a reason.
If I get a single argument for why you think it's reasonable to get rid of over half the invocations that exist for warlock, that people paid for, and were promised would be usable with the "backwards compatible 2024 classes" I'm going to assume you're either some kind of troll or being paid by WOTC to defend them.
Why would you ever die on the hill called "Everything from 2014 is dead, and locked to the old game they won't sell anymore, and you're entitled for thinking the "backwards compatible classes" would be backwards compatible with things that I think are locked to 2014's rules for no discernible reason"
??? You can use Tasha's, Xanathars, and 2014 PHB invocations in the actual game and on other sites like roll 20 or foundry with the 2024 warlock. Why in gods name would DNDbeyond get a pass for that not being the case for them???
This is a net loss for the consumer at the benefit of nobody. Do you just hate the existence of 2014 content- or are you trying to make the 2024 classes WORSE???
Here's the thing. I get what you're saying, but there's multiple ways to interpret their statement. I'm not arguing about what's best, and any attempt to insist otherwise is a strawman and will be ignored.
"Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets." -Easy. 2014 characters stay 2014 characters.
"Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters." -While you're reading this as 'the features from each will be able to be mixed and matched', I'm reading this as 'you will be able to select from both 2014 and 2024 options when picking your class'. That's the main difference in thought here.
"Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs." -The thing that was recommended to be homebrewed, specifically, was spells. That would have broken a lot. They're stating we'll no longer have to do that to keep the 2014 options fully functional.
Something they notoriously did NOT state was that options for the 2014 classes would be usable within the 2024 classes. To my understanding, the two are being treated as separate entities. Subclasses can still be used, and 2014 characters can now pick between 2014 and 2024 spells, but the 2024 classes can't use the 2014 spells. Basically, the new classes are bound to the new content wherever the old has been replaced (which includes additional features, some of which were added to new versions of classes, such as the Rogue and Steady Aim being standard now).
Whether that's good or bad isn't something I'm willing to debate. It simply is what it is for the purposes of this discussion.
The third-party subclasses seem to be unavailable to the 2024 classes, is this something they plan to add/fix in the future?
It's in the main bug support thread. They're working on it, but haven't been able to move third-party stuff forward yet. Speculation is that it might be a licensing issue.
Did the Epic Boon version of the Ability Score Improvement from the 2014 DMG not get transferred over to the PHB 2024 with the other epic boons or was this missed during implementation?
Ability Score Improvement. The character can increase one ability score by 2 or increase two ability scores by 1 each. The ability score can now be increased above 20, up to a maximum of 30.
I Don't want to use the 2014 spells... I would like to have all my characters be able to use the new 2024 spells, and I want all my homebrew monsters to have 2024 spells. I liked the original idea of the tool tips updating to 2024 rules...
I hope that people who want to use the old 2014 spells have the option to as well, but I hope there is a solution in sight. I'm not looking forward to having to update all my homebrew monsters...
It's ridiculous that there isn't a way to disable the 2024 ruleset in a character sheet. I shouldn't have to filter through a mile of duplicate spells every time that I prepare spells on my cleric. There's already a toggle to enable the 2014 rules so we know that you can implement one for the 2024 rules as well. This should be done. It's absolutely awful UI as it currently stands.
I just discovered that when searching through spells, I am unable to view some of them. It will no longer show me the spell description for Aura of Vitality unless I buy the 2024 player's handbook, theoretically because the 2014 and 2024 versions are identical and so were consolidated instead of getting a legacy tag. And then that consolidated version was paywalled, without regard for the fact that I should have access to the 2014 version. I haven't been this mad since the OGL fiasco, this is ridiculous.
I think that if we gave a laptop and the source code of DnD Beyond to a chimpanzee, they would do a better job, honestly.![]()
You only had two jobs:
1. Duplicate the Toolset, the same way you probably have for coding on it before launch. (Unless you code live, which now I don't doubt it).
2. Make the user choose for which edition they desire to make the character sheet for BEFORE starting to create the character. You already have that page!!!
You would not need Legacy Tags, because each character would be set for the set of rules they were created by, chosen by the user. It would not be the mess of spells and conditions that it is now (Because one thing D&D needs is more text and complications, right?).
Glad I did not renew my subscription yet, I knew you guys would **** it up, and I don't doubt it was purposely, just to say "Look, we did what you asked, see how shitty it is?" like a child.
This company is (hopefully) going down by the day, good luck to everyone who still on this ship, I'm changing systems as soon as I can.
This would have COMPLETELY destroyed the premise of the "2024 PHB" by making it self-contained and unable to be used with legacy/expanded content, completely the opposite of their advertised "backwards compatibility" and honestly would have probably tanked the edition.
What they should have done instead of this "half edition that is backwards compatible" nonsense compromise is thusly:
Release the 2024 PHB as an errata of the 2014 PHB, complete with it being free for online owners of the PHB.
Actually put in the effort to take all the content 5e currently had, and modernizing and updating it into a 6th edition.
Right now we have to pay for a glorified errata that has caused dozens of coding failures because it's neither a errata nor a new edition. Once it's all said and done and all legacy and expanded rules content is able to be used on 2024 character sheets seamlessly, this will be less of an issue- but it will never be optimal. If they don't fix backwards compatibility for things like legacy/expanded rules eldritch invocations there will be a huge gap between DNDbeyond's PHB and the real game- which is something they cannot afford to allow.
Good! It was a terrible lie and marketing strategies.
But also, you are wrong about this not serving to their lie.
What 5e24 players would have and see is what we are seeing today. A character sheet with the feature to opt-out from Legacy content only.
If they would like to support WoTC's lie, they just turn it on, if they have enough brain mass to figure that those rulesets are not compatible, they turn it off. Simple!
While 5e14 players would have the old toolset, exactly how it was like... yesterday. No changes, everything flowing just as usual
Things should only change for 5e24 players, not for 5e14 players.
I have 60 pages of forum discussion and thousands of comments all over social media that would prove your point wrong.
Nobody wanted the 5e24 rules as an errata, and nobody is forcing you to buy the new books.
You want people to adopt new rules that they did not ask because you can't/won't buy the books? LoL
With the invocations what kind of character are you trying them on?
After reading your post I did a quick look at a warlock of mine (5.0 rules) and went to edit his invocations. I did see Aspect of the Moon, Thief of Five Fates and Grasp of Hadar in the list of options. I didn't check all of the ones you listed (he's not high enough level or with the correct pact boon for some of them anyways) but those ones were showing up for me.
So, for sake of clarity, might be worth double-checking if your warlock was with a 5.0 warlock or a 5.5 warlock.
@TheRealCarian, aside from the addition of the 5.5 spells and such to the options in the character sheets, have you noticed anything off with 5.0 characters? I did a little check of a few of mine earlier today just to make sure nothing got broken and it seemed like they were all fine. They kept their current spells. A lv1 Trickery cleric still had his subclass. A character with potions of healing in his inventory kept the current version. And a warlock with Book of Ancient Secrets could still add more and more rituals to his book along with 2nd level rituals. (I assume it'll still work when he unlocks 3rd+ level spells too.) So I'm wondering if there's something I've missed.
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Everything seems to be working fine, it's just a mess like I previously stated (even before the update).
I also tested what Friosis claim it is not working, and is working just fine... Most likely, they have the "expanded rules" toggle turned off.
The Magic Initiate Feat (Cleric) from the Acolyte Background does not list the first level spell as always prepared but does list the one free use and does instead give an extra Spells Known to be prepared. I believe this happens with all versions of this feat.
So you'd rather the company go under and stops publishing books? You sound like a raging contrarian right now.
"Nobody wanted 5e24 rules as an errata" probably because they made far too many subjective changes rather than objective improvements in an effort to distinct it from an errata to justify selling it back to you. If it had just been an eratta on all the jank in 5e proper, rather than a bunch of controversial "updates" like gutting ranger- it would have been fine as an errata. You are way too heated about this topic yaknow.
And now you're just being rude and spiteful for no god damn reason. Touch grass mr "I HOPE THE COMPANY MAKING THE GAME I LOVE SO MUCH DIES".
A 5.5e warlock should be able to use 5.0 Invocations. You can use legacy feats and expanded feats, legacy spells and expanded spells. Why does 5.5e warlock not have eldritch invocation options from 5e? They said "all character choices" would be backwards compatible. Eldritch Invocation was even mentioned in the FAQ as one of the things a 2024 warlock will "be able to reference in their character sheet".
Why didn't you test both 5e and 5.5e's warlock before commenting??? You would have figured it out really quick, did you forget 5.5e exists and is supposed to be backwards compatible?
so now you're just straight up lying. 2024 warlock is not working "just fine" and this leads me to believe you're trolling for the sake of outrage.
"I could get better feedback from a chimpanzee." "This forum is (hopefully) going down by the day, and I hope to switch to a new method of communication with the devs soon" /s
Where did they say all options for 2014 classes would be open to 2024 classes? As far as I can tell, the Invocations from Tasha's belong to the 2014 Warlock specifically. While they share spell lists and subclasses, they're different classes for all other intents and purposes.
I'll admit, I have only read around 20 of these comments, but Clearly there are people on a number of different sides, each with it's own opinion on what should be done.
I won't really bother to reply to specific posts, and just say what I think should be done.
I believe that in short, we should have the option to choose if we want to use 2024 or 2014 before making a character, as someone said before.
Or, maybe do something were there are two tabs/pages to switch between. On has 2024 characters, where you go to view, edit, and create 2024 characters, and another for 2014.
I do believe that although D&DB did try to kinda fix the problem, they still botched it.
Really, I don't care to much exactly how they do it, as long as they make it better.
I also don't understand why they don't give us access to all of the classes and whatnot, without buying the books. They did it for 2014, so why change it?
There's more to come with the free Basic Rules, what's been released today is only a preview. Start Playing Today with the 2024 D&D Free Rules
This is a direct quote from DNDbeyond's FAQ. 2014 Invocations are "Character options" and "player options", just like spells, just like magical items. We had outrage over their attempt to get rid of old spells and magical items for a reason.
If I get a single argument for why you think it's reasonable to get rid of over half the invocations that exist for warlock, that people paid for, and were promised would be usable with the "backwards compatible 2024 classes" I'm going to assume you're either some kind of troll or being paid by WOTC to defend them.
Why would you ever die on the hill called "Everything from 2014 is dead, and locked to the old game they won't sell anymore, and you're entitled for thinking the "backwards compatible classes" would be backwards compatible with things that I think are locked to 2014's rules for no discernible reason"
??? You can use Tasha's, Xanathars, and 2014 PHB invocations in the actual game and on other sites like roll 20 or foundry with the 2024 warlock. Why in gods name would DNDbeyond get a pass for that not being the case for them???
This is a net loss for the consumer at the benefit of nobody. Do you just hate the existence of 2014 content- or are you trying to make the 2024 classes WORSE???
The answer is simple, the only people complicating it are pushing some kind of insane agenda.
The answer is have an additional toggle above "legacy content" and "expanded rules" called "2024 content". If you have all three set- you can use anything, spells, invocations, subclasses etc from every sourcebook on every variation of a class or character. EX: A 2024 warlock should be able to use legacy/expanded content invocations, subclasses, and spells.
And for the people who hate the 2024 content (but bought the phb anyway????) who can't stand the thought of seeing them- they can turn the toggle of "2024 content" off and it's like nothing changed before maintenance yesterday.
This entire thing about "oooh we should have two different kinds of character sheets with a toggle, one where you can ONLY use 2024 content and one where you can ONLY USE 2014 content!" is a knee jerk reaction that solves nothing, and makes the site actively more unfriendly to users and new players. This would completely defy all logic and reasoning for what got us into this mess. The point that got us here was backwards compatibility, removing backwards compatibility because of spite or nostalgia doesn't fix the problem, it just makes the trouble we went through worthless and kills the new content- after a DROUGHT of quality content for two years in preparation for the 2024 update.
Of course the REAL answer would have been: Delay release and early access, make everything function as intended with proper testing before letting anyone touch it, and include the ability to filter out 2024 content instead of letting everyone and their mother pay for a beta test.
Or they could have just chosen not to doubled down on making their "new edition" not really being a "new edition" because it's "Backwards compatible" and immediately making everything as clear as mud. Then attempting to sell a glorified errata.
Here's the thing. I get what you're saying, but there's multiple ways to interpret their statement. I'm not arguing about what's best, and any attempt to insist otherwise is a strawman and will be ignored.
"Players who only have access to the 2014 Player’s Handbook will maintain their character options, spells, and magical items in their character sheets."
-Easy. 2014 characters stay 2014 characters.
"Players with access to the 2024 and 2014 digital Player’s Handbooks can select from both sources when creating new characters."
-While you're reading this as 'the features from each will be able to be mixed and matched', I'm reading this as 'you will be able to select from both 2014 and 2024 options when picking your class'. That's the main difference in thought here.
"Players will not need to rely on Homebrew to use their 2014 player options, including spells and magic items, as recommended in previous changelogs."
-The thing that was recommended to be homebrewed, specifically, was spells. That would have broken a lot. They're stating we'll no longer have to do that to keep the 2014 options fully functional.
Something they notoriously did NOT state was that options for the 2014 classes would be usable within the 2024 classes. To my understanding, the two are being treated as separate entities. Subclasses can still be used, and 2014 characters can now pick between 2014 and 2024 spells, but the 2024 classes can't use the 2014 spells. Basically, the new classes are bound to the new content wherever the old has been replaced (which includes additional features, some of which were added to new versions of classes, such as the Rogue and Steady Aim being standard now).
Whether that's good or bad isn't something I'm willing to debate. It simply is what it is for the purposes of this discussion.
The third-party subclasses seem to be unavailable to the 2024 classes, is this something they plan to add/fix in the future?
It's in the main bug support thread. They're working on it, but haven't been able to move third-party stuff forward yet. Speculation is that it might be a licensing issue.
Did the Epic Boon version of the Ability Score Improvement from the 2014 DMG not get transferred over to the PHB 2024 with the other epic boons or was this missed during implementation?
Ability Score Improvement. The character can increase one ability score by 2 or increase two ability scores by 1 each. The ability score can now be increased above 20, up to a maximum of 30.
I Don't want to use the 2014 spells... I would like to have all my characters be able to use the new 2024 spells, and I want all my homebrew monsters to have 2024 spells. I liked the original idea of the tool tips updating to 2024 rules...
I hope that people who want to use the old 2014 spells have the option to as well, but I hope there is a solution in sight. I'm not looking forward to having to update all my homebrew monsters...
It's ridiculous that there isn't a way to disable the 2024 ruleset in a character sheet. I shouldn't have to filter through a mile of duplicate spells every time that I prepare spells on my cleric. There's already a toggle to enable the 2014 rules so we know that you can implement one for the 2024 rules as well. This should be done. It's absolutely awful UI as it currently stands.
I just discovered that when searching through spells, I am unable to view some of them. It will no longer show me the spell description for Aura of Vitality unless I buy the 2024 player's handbook, theoretically because the 2014 and 2024 versions are identical and so were consolidated instead of getting a legacy tag. And then that consolidated version was paywalled, without regard for the fact that I should have access to the 2014 version. I haven't been this mad since the OGL fiasco, this is ridiculous.
So far Spells yes...not sure about magic items