Quote from AlaricBrand >>

 [[I'd be happy with you changing 2 points of Wisdom for 2 points of Charisma for the purposes of possibly multiclassing to Warlock in the future.]]

Can we please go the whole hog, and just swap the two stats? It preserves the stats 'as rolled', which also appeals, and 14 is much nicer to start with than 13! I've already got a ton on odd stats for things I'd prefer not to be odd (Dex, most notably, but also Con)...I do promise this will be the last stat-swap! and I do take the risk that I never find a patron.

[[We could do that, but Brand would lose out on his bonuses for some quite important skills (i.e., Animal Handling, Insight, and Perception), whereas just swapping the two points wouldn't have such an impact.]]

Another option I found interesting (back to using Int as the stat, which would be awesome!): potentially make the primary stat dependent on the patron. Some might like Int, Wis, or Cha (this was suggested as an approach in a couple of posts). I'm guessing the power comes from the patron, so the patrons preferences might influence the primary stat; you did allude to ignoring stat limits because of patron preferences.

[[I would prefer not to do that, as it breaks too many rules and I feel doesn't suit the idea of the character class.]]

However, please note that finding the means to do this would have to be done in play. There are several avenues already available in the campaign for doing this...

Absolutely.  I was hoping the bookshop (and its proprietor), possibly even combined with Nathaniel and Astral Traveling might get me started on the journey, but I see this as definitely an in-game thing, and, most likely, not until level 5...though if it happened before that I'd be tempted, but Rog3 is very appealing.

[[What did you have in mind for Rogue 3? Arcane Trickster progressing on to Warlock would be a good story plot line, but once again this would be better done in game rather than just suddenly learning magic.]]

...but you can't just take a course on how to be a Warlock at the School of Occult Studies.

Is there a local name for those who derive their power from otherworldly patrons? I'm not fond of using class names in dialog. Thou Warlock has a nice-ish ring to it, but it's like wearing a pointy hat. Or is that a thing I need to navigate in-game?

[[There is no systematised naming convention in the game world: Wizard is a Gontish term (Wamzut did his initial training there and then went home schooled, but kept the name for purposes of alliteration); the School of Occult Studies uses the terms: Innate Sorcerer, Latent Sorcerer, Apprentice, Journeyman Mage, Master, Magus, and Archmagus for spell casters of all types of persuasion (and character classes); and the temple has users of magic who are simply called Priests because they use their magic for religious purposes. Then there are the traditional Shamans of the Stemian tribes, who can also be of various character classes; and finally there are people who call themselves Seers (who can also be of various classes). In fact, Witches and Warlocks are the only terms that aren't represented in the game world, though the Warlock character class is definitely available. This is all because there is no formalisation in society, apart from the over-arching Sorendenese term of 'magus', to categorise practitioners on where their power comes from. This is also useful for me as a referee because players don't have pre-conceived ideas of the capabilities of people they meet.]]

In fact, the School teaches against the practice of learning magic through an otherworldly patron.

Good to know; does Brand know if it's tolerated, discouraged, or totally banned?

[[This is a tricky one. Make an Arcana check.]]

Most of the School's alumni are plain innate sorcerers, innate sorcerers who then become wizards, innate sorcerers who then become bards, etc.]]

Huh. Interesting. I had the impression, it was "wizards school" and tolerated weird people like Minton and Nathaniel. Makes much more sense to have the Scool actually match it's name. Not sure why I never worked this out. I always had the impression it was quite small.

[[No. It is called the School of Occult Studies because it doesn't just cater for wizards, and in fact the alumni aren't even called wizards (see above). The Wizard class is predominant amongst the masters because, as a character class, it best represents the idea of people gaining power with magic through study, but the whole idea of the King's Patronage for Innate Sorcerers to attend the School is predicated on trying control the Wild Magic of the Wild Magic Sorcerer subclass... There was once this incident when a previous king of Engle was once almost killed by a magus accidentally creating a ground-zero fireball because of their inability to properly control their magic, an idea I had even before that class and subclass formally existed.]]

Also, for your information, the idea of there being other worlds is not common knowledge in the campaign setting. Brand knows different for a varietyof reasons, but the common belief is that the gods and other supernatural creatures are all of this world (i.e., Mithras and Aieda are literally in the sky.

Interesting. This probably helps reinforce Brand's attitude to gods and discomfort with the authority claimed by religious leaders.

I presume people in the SoOS would understand this? They deal in other planes, summonings etc after all. Certainly Nathaniel, and I assume therefor his student and people who know him. Is that a reasonable assumption?

[[Not really. Some practitioners do see the universe this way, and some don't. Also, the masters tend to be specialists rather than generalists and most summonings don't actually specifically demonstrate as causing an opening between different planes of existence.]]

[[Minor question: If I take a Feat that gives Con+1, are HP recalculated (in Brands case, +3 because he's third level), or does the bonus only apply for subsequent levels?]]

[[The bonus applies to all hit dice, so yes, they are recalculated.]]

[[Nother-nother question: In this world given the way magic items are constructed, would a Warlock be able to make items based on his spells and/or in collaboration with other casters? Or are they not relaly casters at all? Do they even use mana? This may affect my interest in the class to some extent; I'k like Brand to be able to recharge stuff, if possible.]]

[[This is a tricky one. The Warlock class would generally not be able to make magical items in this campaign scenario using the arcane focus approach because Ritual Casting isn't a feature of that class, and it is a campaign requirement for creating arcane focuses. However, a Warlock with the Pact of the Tome, can cast rituals and so would be able to make Arcane Foci. Plus, any Warlock would be able to power an Arcane Focus they came into the possession of using their own ability to manipulate mana, so they could have one made for them.

Also, any character could take the Ritual Caster feat and be able to create Arcane Focuses of spells from the character class they chose, if they knew the appropriate ritual. However, if they can't manipulate magic, they wouldn't be able to instantly convert raw mana into a spell effect, but they could give it to someone who could, and even create a focus that accumulated power on its own (i.e., recoverable charges, which is kind of how Brand's magic items are working at the moment).]]

[[We could do that, but Brand would lose out on his bonuses for some quite important skills (i.e., Animal Handling, Insight, and Perception), whereas just swapping the two points wouldn't have such an impact.]]

I do worry about loss of Insight; that is a loss I might regret. Perception will be unchanged because it's now an Expertese, and will get better faster; Animal Handling is nice, but so are Persuasion and Deception -- and they actually fit better with his past. My thinking is that if I really feel the choice was bad, I can always pick a feat that boosts Wis from 11 to 12, to get +1 back, whereas... a lower DC on all Warlock spells is a problem is most if not all encounters.

I'm pretty sure I'd prefer the 14. There's only two feats I can find for increasing CHA, so it's going to max out at 16 anyway, I fear. I'm guessing +4 stat tomes are not common 8-).

[[I would prefer not to do that, as it breaks too many rules and I feel doesn't suit the idea of the character class.]]

Fair enough, but AFAICT, it only breaks one rule, and it seems to be a commonly broken one at that...just saying ;-). I'm happy with your take tho.

[[What did you have in mind for Rogue 3? Arcane Trickster progressing on to Warlock would be a good story plot line, but once again this would be better done in game rather than just suddenly learning magic.]]

Was thinking your original plan for Swashbuckler; it's fun in DDO, and sneak attack on almost all attacks is worth having, especially when it's 2d6 at level 3.

This is also useful for me as a referee because players don't have pre-conceived ideas of the capabilities of people they meet.

I like the non-pointy-hat world you have always run. I will stick with "people with otherworldly patrons". That's all priests are anyway. Wankers.

In fact, the School teaches against the practice of learning magic through an otherworldly patron.

Good to know; does Brand know if it's tolerated, discouraged, or totally banned?

[[This is a tricky one. Make an Arcana check.]]

Arcana: 7

[[Not really. Some practitioners do see the universe this way, and some don't. Also, the masters tend to be specialists rather than generalists and most summonings don't actually specifically demonstrate as causing an opening between different planes of existence.]]

Also interesting. Ivory tower wankers. Not like an honest War...person with otherworldly patrons, who has a much better grasp of the way the world works.

However, a Warlock with the Pact of the Tome, can cast rituals and so would be able to make Arcane Foci. Plus, any Warlock would be able to power an Arcane Focus they came into the possession of using their own ability to manipulate mana, so they could have one made for them.

Funnily enough, two pacts have great appeal: Blade and Tome (in fact Tome was what made me think the patron (or pact) might mace INT a viable stat). The infinite supply of throwing daggers from Blade is appealing...and being able to summon a weapon at will. Tome fits more with my sense of Brand going for flexibility and knowledge. He likes knowing stuff: He was doomed at birth in this regard, given his parents professions.

If I went Blade, then taking ritual caster would also be a good option as you suggest.

The prime concern is not waiting a long time to items to recharge, if he can help it along. Secondarily, making stuff would be very nice but not essential. As you say, buy/find/steal one.

That said, I am still confused about foci and Ritual Magic for items, since so VERY few spells have the ritual tag. Darkvision and Invisibility do not, for example. So not sure how ritual caster fits in here.

One other thing that's probably worth clearing up: you did say you'd be happy for Brand to become Warlock...would you also be happy (in the same way) for him to become Latent Sorceror? I ask this because I'm not sure if the "not a caster" rule is in effect, or if it is just a matter of finding the relevant trigger or means of activating magic before I hit level 5 and have to make a choice. And I get that his latent sorcery power may only activate at the top of mountains in a thunderstorm or some such crock, but confirming that I'm not "banned" as a result of history would be good.

[[ Getting back to THE GAME: Re Bachelorette #4, you didn't list any description. Sorian, Stemian, old/you etc? Ditto the woman and child he was with. ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand>>

[[We could do that, but Brand would lose out on his bonuses for some quite important skills (i.e., Animal Handling, Insight, and Perception), whereas just swapping the two points wouldn't have such an impact.]]

I do worry about loss of Insight; that is a loss I might regret. Perception will be unchanged because it's now an Expertese, and will get better faster; Animal Handling is nice, but so are Persuasion and Deception -- and they actually fit better with his past. My thinking is that if I really feel the choice was bad, I can always pick a feat that boosts Wis from 11 to 12, to get +1 back, whereas... a lower DC on all Warlock spells is a problem is most if not all encounters.

I'm pretty sure I'd prefer the 14. There's only two feats I can find for increasing CHA, so it's going to max out at 16 anyway, I fear. I'm guessing +4 stat tomes are not common 8-).

[[Okay. I have swapped Brand's Wisdom and Charisma on the character sheet.]]

[[Latent/Innate Sorcery is a property of a character based on secret rules I have made up that are based on a character's ability scores. Certain characters automatically identify as Innate Sorcerers, and if tested, can then be taught how to see and manipulate the particles of magic. Other characters almost make the cut, and their innate sorcery can be activated in certain situations (see previous comment about the person who could only be an innate sorcerer when drunk). These 'situations' vary from character to character, but there is a set of rules to cover it. Brand may even now be a latent sorcerer, but that would be telling. It is also possible that he can never have Innate Sorcery powers, but that would also be telling. To really find out, he will need to investigate in-game. Also, to find out whether something has activated his innate sorcery, the established means to do so would require him having access to a spell caster who can do the testing. FYI, Andrew's character Guilliame was discovered to be a latent sorcerer by Wamzut. I'm not sure Brand knows this though because it only happened after Dworkin and he left the party.]]

[[Okay. I have swapped Brand's Wisdom and Charisma on the character sheet.]]

Gulp. Thank you. Here's hoping I don't roll just 2 under on all my wis-based rolls now.

[[Brand did not find out this information until after he became involved with the School of Occult Studies, but becoming a member of the cult of Arion (read Arioch) can get a student expelled from the School of Occult Studies. This means that Melitta, who is a follower of Arion, either became a follower after she became a journeyman, and/or was very good at keeping secrets from Minton.]]

That brings a whole bunch of other fact-ettes: Arion is, in this context, an "Otherworldly Patron", and not a god in the more traditional sense? I do recall he's "young arioch" in past settings, so that fits. Does Brand know if it's Arion specifically that is banned (because he's a chaotic nutter), or if this would likely happen to anyone who had a special friend?

...I also chose Ritual Casting rather than making up a separate feat...

Thanks, that makes sense. The key then is also having other spells to embody.

...there is a set of rules to cover it... that would also be telling

That sounds find. He's got a little time, and both avenues probably start at the Bookshop and School. If he survives the night.

Andrew's character Guilliame....

I remember Andrew telling me ages ago. but not the Wamzut connection. I'm not sure they've ever met, tho they may have, but in another timeline seems likely.

Also, to find out whether something has activated his innate sorcery, the established means to do so would require him having access to a spell caster who can do the testing

My (and I'm pretty sure Brand's -- he's been tested a few times) recollection is that they cast Magesight on the subject, and if they see mana then they are in business. He might need to order a Magesight item with lots of charges! Though, that does not sound right...I assume it would just work every time...magesight item would be nice tho! Spectacles of Magesight!

[Re: THE GAME]

Brand does a double-take, then frowns, and looks at Mikkel. "What is it that you saw today that got you so concerned?"

 [[ Gotta bite: Why hasn't Donnae killed Sameena Damass?

Edit: Wouldn't be the child with the man and woman? ]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[ Getting back to THE GAME: Re Bachelorette #4, you didn't list any description. Sorian, Stemian, old/you etc? Ditto the woman and child he was with. ]]

[[Slight retcon. Brand saw these people recently, when he arrived back at the house, not earlier in the day as I said previously.]]

[[#4 is a Stemian and is wearing Studded Leather and is carrying a Shield. The women he didn't get a good look at, but the young girl was dressed in a more flashy style than the woman.]]

 [[ Well they've gone from "informant asking for his wife and child to be taken to safety", to "hirelings of Sameena Damass".

Looking forward to dinner.]]

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

[[Brand did not find out this information until after he became involved with the School of Occult Studies, but becoming a member of the cult of Arion (read Arioch) can get a student expelled from the School of Occult Studies. This means that Melitta, who is a follower of Arion, either became a follower after she became a journeyman, and/or was very good at keeping secrets from Minton.]]

That brings a whole bunch of other fact-ettes: Arion is, in this context, an "Otherworldly Patron", and not a god in the more traditional sense? I do recall he's "young arioch" in past settings, so that fits. Does Brand know if it's Arion specifically that is banned (because he's a chaotic nutter), or if this would likely happen to anyone who had a special friend?

[[It depends who you talk to. Some people call Arion 'The God of Magick' others call him 'The First Sorcerer'. The Mithrans don't like him at all because he is outside their pantheon of gods. And, despite the eight-pointed star that is used for his symbol (and what Malcolm might say), Arion is not Moorcock's Arioch. As to whether he might fall into the category of 'Otherworldly Patron' is something Brand will have to find out in play. Side note: the Magic Missile spell in this campaign setting is called 'Arion's Arrows' and Melitta and Dworkin are the only magi that Brand knows who used it regularly.]]

Also, to find out whether something has activated his innate sorcery, the established means to do so would require him having access to a spell caster who can do the testing

My (and I'm pretty sure Brand's -- he's been tested a few times) recollection is that they cast Magesight on the subject, and if they see mana then they are in business. He might need to order a Magesight item with lots of charges! Though, that does not sound right...I assume it would just work every time...magesight item would be nice tho! Spectacles of Magesight!

[[Mage sight, although I will still sometimes use the term, has basically been replaced with the See the Arcane cantrip, but yes, the above description is fundamentally correct. Also, the vision he has when he is using the Stone of Unseeing is what he believes mage sight gives an Innate Sorcerer, so in a way he already has the device you mentioned above.]]

---

[Re: THE GAME]

Brand does a double-take, then frowns, and looks at Mikkel. "What is it that you saw today that got you so concerned?"

---

Mikkel's main concern lies with the other men that have been brought into the house, not the ones Brand has seen upstairs with his father. There are four men who have been causing problems with the servants; demanding food and drink and basically just getting in the way. He considers them ruffians and not suitable to be in the employ of the Brand family, if that is what they are. (Note these four are different again from iMad and the other guards Brand's father has apparently hired.) Brand hasn't seen these men yet.

[[Mage sight, although I will still sometimes use the term, has basically been replaced with the See the Arcane cantrip, but yes, the above description is fundamentally correct. Also, the vision he has when he is using the Stone of Unseeing is what he believes mage sight gives an Innate Sorcerer, so in a way he already has the device you mentioned above.]]

[[Then...how does the test work as a test, if he already see mana when invis, and invis is essntially mage sight? Would a See The Arcane item not work for him? I'm happy to pursue this in game, but I am just confused!]]

As they move along the corridor to his fathers room, Brand nods, "They sound quite undesirable, Mikkel. Do you know who they belong to? Perhaps a word could be had."

 

Quote from AlaricBrand>>

[[Mage sight, although I will still sometimes use the term, has basically been replaced with the See the Arcane cantrip, but yes, the above description is fundamentally correct. Also, the vision he has when he is using the Stone of Unseeing is what he believes mage sight gives an Innate Sorcerer, so in a way he already has the device you mentioned above.]]

[[Then...how does the test work as a test, if he already see mana when invis, and invis is essntially mage sight? Would a See The Arcane item not work for him? I'm happy to pursue this in game, but I am just confused!]]

[[I may have led you astray before with my ready agreement to the process involved. The tester helps the person to see the particles of magic using their own innate ability, if they have it. If they do not have the ability, then this can't happen. If they do have the ability, then they have effectively had their eyes opened to a new sense and that is why Innate Sorcerers get the See the Arcane cantrip for free, it is basically one of the special abilities they possess. Hopefully that clears things up for you, but I can't go into too much detail because there are other things here Brand should find out in game play.]]

"They came today with one of the men your father is in conference with. He's a Stemian, and they called him Rawl, but I don't know if that's a name or a title."

"They came today with one of the men your father is in conference with. He's a Stemian, and they called him Rawl, but I don't know if that's a name or a title."

Brand nods and sighs. "A name. And a rather appalling man." Glancing at Mikkel, he continues. "Your instincts are good again. I suggest you don't antagonize him or his men, and I will ask my father if anything can be done...and how long he intends them to stay."

"Do you happen to know which man they came with? Even a description?"

Quote from AlaricBrand >>

 "They came today with one of the men your father is in conference with. He's a Stemian, and they called him Rawl, but I don't know if that's a name or a title."

Brand nods and sighs. "A name. And a rather appalling man." Glancing at Mikkel, he continues. "Your instincts are good again. I suggest you don't antagonize him or his men, and I will ask my father if anything can be done...and how long he intends them to stay."

"Do you happen to know which man they came with? Even a description?"

[[Crossed wires here. Rawl is the man they came with today.]]

[[Brand and Mikkel have now reached his father's office. Do you want Mikkel to be part of this conversation?]]

[[Crossed wires here. Rawl is the man they came with today.]]

Cool. Was wondering if Rawl was accoompanying someone from, say, the temple. Now I follow.

[[Brand and Mikkel have now reached his father's office. Do you want Mikkel to be part of this conversation?]]

[[My thinking here is that Koric picked Mikkel, and therefore trusts him to some extent. Brand is interested in assessing him more, and sees no reason NOT to trust him, so Mikkel is in from Brands PoV.

However: when discussing "the business", has Koric ever had servants present? My *guess* would be not, but Brand's actions here would be largely determined by that.]]

Brand turns to Mikkel, "Have you had much to do with Father's ... activities ... before, Mikkel?"

[[If Mikkel says 'no' in some form, or Brand has never seen a servant present, then:]]

Brand nods, "Probably best I go alone, then. Perhaps you could see how my armour is, since I will probably need it, one way or another. I'm sorry to ask, it should be my job."

[[ If Mikkel looks uncomfortable, or says "yes", or "a little, sir", or Brand knows he has been present before etc:]]

Brand nods, "Then, into the lions den I guess!", and opens the door.

]]

[[ I assume Koric will ask Mikkel to do something, like "fetch some water/clothes/food", or just say "leave us please, Mikkel" if he doesn't want him present ]]

[[Edit: Just for clarify...when I say business...Brand means spying..have changed dialog with Mikkel ]]

Brand turns to Mikkel, "Have you had much to do with Father's ... activities ... before, Mikkel?"

"A little, Master Alaric," says Mikkel looking a little uncomfortable, "but my main job is to assist you in whatever way I can."

Brand nods, "Then, into the lions den I guess!", and opens the door.

The conversation in the room stops abruptly and the man Brand saw earlier with the woman and child steps in front of him. The man has his cloak pushed aside and his hand on the hilt of his dagger.

"This room is occupied," he says staring defiantly up into Brand's face. "Find somewhere else to go."

Brand looks at the man for a moment and smiles, "I believe that I am expected."

"Call your dog off, Sameena," says Brand's father tersely. "This is my son."

There is nothing said, but the man steps aside allowing Brand to see within the office.

His father is seated at his desk, and sitting opposite him is the young girl Brand saw before. Sitting on her left is the woman. They are all looking at Brand and Mikkel.

"Come in, Alaric," says his father before adding, "And, Mikkel, stay out there and make sure that no one else comes barging in unannounced."

"As you wish, Lord Brand," says Mikkel nodding obediently.

Brand  moves in, looking around the room, taking note of it's occupants, then faces his Father, "I had hoped to speak in private, father. But it is an honour to meet you madam." he says to the young child, bowing slightly.

[[Per Minton's comment, Brand starts to sing very loudly, and deliberately out of tune, the most annoying ear-worm song he can think of  Edit: IN HIS HEAD (not aloud) ]]

 [[ Recent Items has disappeared from World Anvil? It was very useful... ]]

The girl smiles and bats her eyelids in a manner that seems very strange on a young girl.

"Young master, Brand," she says. "Please forgive Jon, he is very protective of me, but perhaps his manners need to be improved."

There is a single grunt in response from the man, who is still at the door.

The older woman says nothing, but her appearance is a little unusual, now that Brand can see her more closely. Her skin is pale like a Stemian, but her general facial features are not Stemian and the hair that is peeking out from under her shawl is auburn in colour.