Why can't the transformations be added like the Dark Bargains were added with the Crooked Moon books? I don't understand.
OR even like Maneuvers for Battle Master. Blade Breaker or Carrion Raven
I don’t understand why something similar can’t be done with the traits.
Especially since we already have Races that have Dropdown Options that apply traits/effects. Like the 2024 Elves, Tieflings and Goliath. Or Even Kobolds.
I don't know if they have the architecture to add in Transformations as something that can be added to any PC and have the requirements fully enforced. Or it may just be an issue of too much work?
For the Crooked Moon it's just adding one feature to any class, because you're limited to one Dark Bargain. The Transformations are more complicated. If we look at the Aberrant Horror Transformation you've got:
Stage 1. Gain both Stage 1 Boons and the Stage 1 Flaw.
Stage 2. Choose one of two Stage 2 Boons and gain the Stage 2 Flaw.
Stage 3. Choose one of two Stage 3 Boons and gain the Stage 3 Flaw.
Stage 4. Choose one of two Stage 4 Boons and gain the Stage 4 Flaw.
I don't know exactly how they code the Base Classes because homebrew is limited to Subclasses, but assuming it's similar and If they implemented the same method as the Crooked Moon Dark Bargains they'd have to add one feature for Stage 1, two features for Stage 2 (one for each Boon choice and each choice could include the Stage 2 flaw), two features for Stage 3, and two features for Stage 4. So let's say seven features for one Transformation. There are 12 Transformations, so let's say 84 new features added to one class. There are 12 Base Classes, so that's 1008 features to code, assuming about the same number of feature choices per Transformation.
For the Crooked Moon Dark Bargains there are 13. So that's 156 feature choices to add to the 12 Base Classes. Far less work than Transformations.
I know with subclasses you can create a subclass feature at a lower level and have multiple options for that subclass feature and then have those options be prerequisites to take for subsequent subclass feature options. So you can definitely code a level 3 Fighter subclass feature with two options (e.g. Boon 1a and Boon 1b) and then for the level 7 Fighter subclass feature code two options (e.g. Boon 2a and Boon 2b) and have each of those Boons have one specific boon from a lower level (e.g. Boon 2a requires Boon1a), but I don't know if that's something available to base classes. But the problem there is the boons would be tied to a specific level. I don't know if the base classes can be coded to enforce the progression (Boon 1 > Boon 2 > Boon 3 > Boon 4) or if you'd just have all options available when you enabled the hypothetical Optional Class Feature for Transformations.
With species, you'd run into the same issue as with subclasses. You could definitely code the Transformations into each species, but then that'd be 84 feature choices for each species. 10 PHB species and you've got 840 features to code.
One thing they could have done with the 103 different Heritage traits is make one species to represent all the Grim Hollow heritage traits (e.g. Grim Hollow Heritage) and then have those 103 different traits be options to select from one species trait (e.g. Traits). I coded a homebrew species based on the similar system for Clan Affiliation that they had for the Raider's Guide to Valika book. The only issue with this method is you cannot mechanically enforce the trait requirements. To enforce the trait requirements would require multiple different Trait features, where all the base traits are in one feature and all the improved traits are in a second feature. I think that would work, but I have not attempted to build the homebrew species I made to require that level of mechanical enforcement.
Anyway, all of this to say that I don't know why Transformations or Heritage traits were not implemented, or were implemented as they were.
The Dark Bargains have me convinced that it’s doable to implement transformations in a similar way.
I suspect it’s an issue of not wanting to spend the money on the working hours it would take. Which is incredibly disappointing and I’m less likely to buy products like this in the future. The character builder integration is kinda the whole selling point of DnD Beyond for me.
Anything CAN be implemented, it's of course a question of cost and effort and such. But I do agree that the unwillingness to fully adapt Grim Hollow will make me far less willing to buy any other 3rd party content since that may or may not be fully implemented here as well. I mean c'mon, they can't even be bothered to fix the forum dice roller and now they are unwilling to implement content they are charging for.
In the Grim Hollow: Player's Guide, there are multiple sections that have tool tips that show previews to different spells that are supposed to be in the book, but the links say they are to content not within the book. One of the examples being the link to the spell Holy Word in the Spells & Curses section of the book saying that it belongs to the Grim Hollow: Player Pack even though it is within the current book. Is there any way to fix these links to connect to the books they are in? I don't want to have to buy multiple books to access the content in the one I just got.
The spells Arboreal Curse, Heartseeker, Magic Mirror, Consume Mind, Suffocate, Track, and Hunter sense are not viewable in the Grim Hollow Players Guide if you do not own Lairs of Etharis. I do not know if this is intentional or not
In the Grim Hollow: Player's Guide, there are multiple sections that have tool tips that show previews to different spells that are supposed to be in the book, but the links say they are to content not within the book.
The spells Arboreal Curse, Heartseeker, Magic Mirror, Consume Mind, Suffocate, Track, and Hunter sense are not viewable in the Grim Hollow Players Guide if you do not own Lairs of Etharis. I do not know if this is intentional or not
Fixed!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I was thinking about buying Grim Hollow, but this thread has made me realise I should wait. This is nothing to do with the people fixing the product and posting updates on here, but not offering the product as described is really shortsighted, especially if it's been part of a public fundraising campaign like kickstarter.
The lessons learnt from making it work would allow more products to be sold on the platform and reaffirm trust with consumers.
I spotted a spelling issue in the transformation chapter. In the seraph transformation, "stage 3 boon: protective wings" advantage lack an "e" in the second bullet point, here.
A player at my table has suggested that it might be a technical error for Inexorable Onslaught to be given to the Circle of Entropy druid at level 3, given that no other sub/classes get a second attack that early and apparently the play test version of the subclass got the ability at level 6 which is more in line with other classes (especially casters).
Is this an error in the digital source or should it be taken as-is?
You give up a use of Wild Shape to have the benefit for 10 minutes... So says the PDF from Ghostfire Gaming itself. I suppose the balance is the use of a Wild Shape for this, and the fact Druids aren't the best attackers? *shrug*
A player at my table has suggested that it might be a technical error for Inexorable Onslaught to be given to the Circle of Entropy druid at level 3 […].
Is this an error in the digital source or should it be taken as-is?
The material DDB received from Ghostfire Gaming says level 3.
Hey, just realized this spell has a typo. IT says a 4th level spell slot has a Duration of 30 days. While a 5th or 6th lasts 10 days, and a 7th level lasts 30 days. I am pretty sure its supposed to be 3 days, not 30 days.
Regarding the Fractured Barb: for some reason you simply have res. to all damage on the sheet. Not that bad, but irritating.
I don't know if they have the architecture to add in Transformations as something that can be added to any PC and have the requirements fully enforced. Or it may just be an issue of too much work?
For the Crooked Moon it's just adding one feature to any class, because you're limited to one Dark Bargain. The Transformations are more complicated. If we look at the Aberrant Horror Transformation you've got:
I don't know exactly how they code the Base Classes because homebrew is limited to Subclasses, but assuming it's similar and If they implemented the same method as the Crooked Moon Dark Bargains they'd have to add one feature for Stage 1, two features for Stage 2 (one for each Boon choice and each choice could include the Stage 2 flaw), two features for Stage 3, and two features for Stage 4. So let's say seven features for one Transformation. There are 12 Transformations, so let's say 84 new features added to one class. There are 12 Base Classes, so that's 1008 features to code, assuming about the same number of feature choices per Transformation.
For the Crooked Moon Dark Bargains there are 13. So that's 156 feature choices to add to the 12 Base Classes. Far less work than Transformations.
I know with subclasses you can create a subclass feature at a lower level and have multiple options for that subclass feature and then have those options be prerequisites to take for subsequent subclass feature options. So you can definitely code a level 3 Fighter subclass feature with two options (e.g. Boon 1a and Boon 1b) and then for the level 7 Fighter subclass feature code two options (e.g. Boon 2a and Boon 2b) and have each of those Boons have one specific boon from a lower level (e.g. Boon 2a requires Boon1a), but I don't know if that's something available to base classes. But the problem there is the boons would be tied to a specific level. I don't know if the base classes can be coded to enforce the progression (Boon 1 > Boon 2 > Boon 3 > Boon 4) or if you'd just have all options available when you enabled the hypothetical Optional Class Feature for Transformations.
With species, you'd run into the same issue as with subclasses. You could definitely code the Transformations into each species, but then that'd be 84 feature choices for each species. 10 PHB species and you've got 840 features to code.
One thing they could have done with the 103 different Heritage traits is make one species to represent all the Grim Hollow heritage traits (e.g. Grim Hollow Heritage) and then have those 103 different traits be options to select from one species trait (e.g. Traits). I coded a homebrew species based on the similar system for Clan Affiliation that they had for the Raider's Guide to Valika book. The only issue with this method is you cannot mechanically enforce the trait requirements. To enforce the trait requirements would require multiple different Trait features, where all the base traits are in one feature and all the improved traits are in a second feature. I think that would work, but I have not attempted to build the homebrew species I made to require that level of mechanical enforcement.
Anyway, all of this to say that I don't know why Transformations or Heritage traits were not implemented, or were implemented as they were.
The Dark Bargains have me convinced that it’s doable to implement transformations in a similar way.
I suspect it’s an issue of not wanting to spend the money on the working hours it would take. Which is incredibly disappointing and I’m less likely to buy products like this in the future. The character builder integration is kinda the whole selling point of DnD Beyond for me.
Anything CAN be implemented, it's of course a question of cost and effort and such. But I do agree that the unwillingness to fully adapt Grim Hollow will make me far less willing to buy any other 3rd party content since that may or may not be fully implemented here as well. I mean c'mon, they can't even be bothered to fix the forum dice roller and now they are unwilling to implement content they are charging for.
In the Grim Hollow: Player's Guide, there are multiple sections that have tool tips that show previews to different spells that are supposed to be in the book, but the links say they are to content not within the book. One of the examples being the link to the spell Holy Word in the Spells & Curses section of the book saying that it belongs to the Grim Hollow: Player Pack even though it is within the current book. Is there any way to fix these links to connect to the books they are in? I don't want to have to buy multiple books to access the content in the one I just got.
The spells Arboreal Curse, Heartseeker, Magic Mirror, Consume Mind, Suffocate, Track, and Hunter sense are not viewable in the Grim Hollow Players Guide if you do not own Lairs of Etharis. I do not know if this is intentional or not
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ModeratorFixed!
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Keep up the good work!
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"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
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ModeratorFixed!
Fixed!
Fixed!
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Thank you spamandtuna, we appreciate all your help!
I was thinking about buying Grim Hollow, but this thread has made me realise I should wait. This is nothing to do with the people fixing the product and posting updates on here, but not offering the product as described is really shortsighted, especially if it's been part of a public fundraising campaign like kickstarter.
The lessons learnt from making it work would allow more products to be sold on the platform and reaffirm trust with consumers.
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ModeratorFixed!
Fixed!
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A player at my table has suggested that it might be a technical error for Inexorable Onslaught to be given to the Circle of Entropy druid at level 3, given that no other sub/classes get a second attack that early and apparently the play test version of the subclass got the ability at level 6 which is more in line with other classes (especially casters).
Is this an error in the digital source or should it be taken as-is?
You give up a use of Wild Shape to have the benefit for 10 minutes... So says the PDF from Ghostfire Gaming itself. I suppose the balance is the use of a Wild Shape for this, and the fact Druids aren't the best attackers? *shrug*
Makes sense, thanks!
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ModeratorThe material DDB received from Ghostfire Gaming says level 3.
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ModeratorFixed!
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Hey, just realized this spell has a typo. IT says a 4th level spell slot has a Duration of 30 days. While a 5th or 6th lasts 10 days, and a 7th level lasts 30 days.
Maelfa's Quickened Class
I am pretty sure its supposed to be 3 days, not 30 days.
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ModeratorThis matches the text sent by Ghostfire. You may want to discuss it with them.
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ModeratorFixed! (The spells were always included, but it was referencing the older versions.)
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