First of all, I want to say that I know that no such spell exists, but if anyone would ever know how to create one, it would be the Goddess of Magic herself.
The idea is that in a long-forgotten timeline, Mystra gives her hero/champion, a young human girl called, Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke, a far distant and long-forgotten ancestor of Karsus (the very same Karsus who would eventually have his own run-in with Mystra), one-time access to potent magic to banish Hadar back to the Far Realms after the Dark Hunger had descended upon Toril, thanks to its Herald managing to temporarily usurp Selûne divinity and use The Gates of the Moon as a portal, through which they were able to summon the Elder Evil from across the stars.
So powerful was the spell that Mystra created for her Champion that it not only banished Hadar deep into the Far Realms but also banished the memories of that timeline from the minds of all living beings on Toril - including from the mind of the one who cast the spell. Such powerful magic, however, can not be easily forgotten. Despite not remembering anything of the events in which she saved the world, Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke - the once and future Champion of Mystra, was changed forever as the sheer power of the spell would bind her soul to the very essence of magic itself.
Many of the descendants of Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke would become influential users of magic (of which Karsus is perhaps the most imfamous, although no one knows that he was descended from that bloodline, as it was so far in the past that even the hallowed halls of history can barely remember it).
Still, despite having no magical ability, others decened from Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke would become mighty heroes in their own right. Heroes of the sword and spear.
Essentially, although he doesn't know it, Herbert is a distant descendant of Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke - and shares his ancestry with many of the greatest weilders of magic and mightiest heroes of ages past.
So, would she do it? Would Mystra give her Champion such power - even as a one-time deal?
XD Forge
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
As I understand it magic from ancient Forgotten realms was far more powerful than it is in modern times. Largely due to the cycle of magical catastrophes (Karsis and the fall of Netheral included) that force Mystra to sacrifice herself and be reborn. That is not to say such powerful magic is not possible.
If I was to DM this conundrum I would require the players to gather esoteric and hard-to-find components (such as a relic of a bygone era), then conduct a dangerous ritual that costs spell slots equal to the level of the spell (12) in a place of power (like a wild magic rift) that may or may not require a sacrifice of some kind. Mattering on how successful the ritual is or whether or not it is interrupted would determine the backlash effects of the spell. (mass memory wipe, cataclysm, ect... )
Naturally, the ritual should be conducted by a priest, devout follower, or chosen one of Mystra to act as a conduit of her godly powers.
No she would not. She's learned how risky that is when her predecessor, Mystryl, died for it. Mystra put the ban in place for a reason. The ban is a line she would not cross, and I am uncertain it's even possible using the weave as it was reconstructed.
Elven high magic might be able to do it, or some custom implementation of 3e's epic magic concept might do it. Crossing the line of allowing a 13th level spell. Some sort of spell that accesses raw magic directly without use of the weave might do it, but there's no way that Mystra would ever condone it.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
No she would not. She's learned how risky that is when her predecessor, Mystryl, died for it. Mystra put the ban in place for a reason. The ban is a line she would not cross, and I am uncertain it's even possible using the weave as it was reconstructed.
Elven high magic might be able to do it, or some custom implementation of 3e's epic magic concept might do it. Crossing the line of allowing a 13th level spell. Some sort of spell that accesses raw magic directly without use of the weave might do it, but there's no way that Mystra would ever condone it.
Ah, you're right.
I always forget that Mystryl and Mystra are two different people and not just a rebirth of the same divine being.
That would mean that it would be Mystryl who would have been the one I was referring to and not Mystra (who is the Goddess of Magic post-Karsus) and likely would be much more hardline about never giving mortals that much power.
I don't know if that would make a difference or not.
:D
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Karsus’Avatar was a L12 spell. Following its casting Mystra banned all L10+ leveled spells leave only Epic/Elven high magic casting above L9. However, prior to Karsus’ folly L12 magic would have been allowed- but no level 12 or higher spells were ever recorded as being created or cast. Could Mystryl hav created a L12 spell during that time and taught it to a follower for a special casting? Nothing in the lore that I know of bars it but why not simply cast it herself without all the backfire drama? The other thing to watch out for is that for a human to be the caster you are mostly looking at the period from -12,000 DR to -3830 DR ( from the end of the elven crown wars to the founding of Netheril) as elves, dragons and the creator races were the leading mages of the earlier ages and humans (probably) rarely if ever made it into the highest ranks of casters.
No she would not. She's learned how risky that is when her predecessor, Mystryl, died for it. Mystra put the ban in place for a reason. The ban is a line she would not cross, and I am uncertain it's even possible using the weave as it was reconstructed.
Elven high magic might be able to do it, or some custom implementation of 3e's epic magic concept might do it. Crossing the line of allowing a 13th level spell. Some sort of spell that accesses raw magic directly without use of the weave might do it, but there's no way that Mystra would ever condone it.
Ah, you're right.
I always forget that Mystryl and Mystra are two different people and not just a rebirth of the same divine being.
That would mean that it would be Mystryl who would have been the one I was referring to and not Mystra (who is the Goddess of Magic post-Karsus) and likely would be much more hardline about never giving mortals that much power.
I don't know if that would make a difference or not.
:D
Different and yet the same. All the lore I have seen states that Mystryl reincarnated (rather than was resurrected) and I don't know if that technically counts as the same or a different creature. It's Mystryl's /soul/ theoretically, but do gods have souls? it's a bit confusing as to how that all works.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Again, we have to watch the timeline carefully. Any time before Karsus L12 magic is possible (but supposedly only the Karsus’ Avatar spell was a a L12 spell. Then Mystryl des and s reborn as Mystra. At that point L 10+ spells no longer can be cast ( but those already cast may still work - a possible reason for the inability to create artifact level items. During the Time of Troubles Mystra dies but is reborn as the human Mage Midnight (who keeps the name Mystra for convienience. Her death in 1385 DR is the reason for the spell plague (& 4e) and the rebirth of Mystra in 1485 DR is the reason for the modern system of magic which even pretty well (RAW) eliminates Epic/Elven High Magic and is the 5e magic system. Under none of the post Karsus Mystra’s could I see her granting even a singe use of a 12 spell. Under the preKarsus Mystryl I could see the storyline you outlined happening at some point either between the end of the elven crown wars and the rise of Netheril or before the rising of the creator races.
Possibly Better Answer: just use Imprisonment. This can imprison godlike beings such as Tiamat for all eternity. I'm sure it will be sufficient.
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Possibly Better Answer: just use Imprisonment. This can imprison godlike beings such as Tiamat for all eternity. I'm sure it will be sufficient.
That would work, maybe, but it’s not something that I wanted my character to do. It’s something that my characters far distant ancestor did. I wasn’t trying to get a 12th level spell or anything. The most I thought would happen was that my character would learn some of the truth about his heritage at some point.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
So you are saying that the preKarsus ancestor is he one Mystryl gave the one shot L12 casting too is that correct. If it is then yes they could get it and cast it. If you are trying to have the present (post Karsus) descendant cast it then no there is no RAW way to do so.
So you are saying that the preKarsus ancestor is the one Mystryl gave the one shot L12 casting too is that correct. If it is then yes they could get it and cast it. If you are trying to have the present (post Karsus) descendant cast it then no there is no RAW way to do so.
Yes, the one pre-Karsus.
I mixed up Mystryl and Mystra - I always forget that these two were/are entirely different beings, but when I said Mystra I actually meant Mystryl. So, those events took place long before Karsus was even born.
It was just something that I thought would keep my character engaged in wanting to adventure into long-lost dungeons etc. While seeking out worthy challenges of honourable combat, through which my character offers his worship of Tempus he would begin to uncover fragments of his true heritage buried in long-forgotten places and almost lost to time, and they set him on a new journey of discovering the truth of his lost ancestry.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
The problem I see (as a DM) is that with that huge backstory and requisite quests you are effectively high jacking the campaign to tell your story. I have 6 players in my current campaign and if each one of them had a backstory and requisite story links/quests like yours there would be no time for the actual story of the campaign. It’s not a horrible idea but it’s more a novel pitch than a multiplayer game character backstory.
The level 12 spell in 2e made you a god. Karsus tried to use one and, because he’s a mortal, he couldn’t handle the power, and the world was destroyed. The way my DM has it, Vecna is trying to use the ancient netherese obelisks to travel back in time to before Karsus used the spell, then kill him and cast the level 12 spell that he could use safely because he’s a god, and then he would use it to steal Mystra’s position as god of magic.
The level 12 spell in 2e made you a god. Karsus tried to use one and, because he’s a mortal, he couldn’t handle the power, and the world was destroyed. The way my DM has it, Vecna is trying to use the ancient netherese obelisks to travel back in time to before Karsus used the spell, then kill him and cast the level 12 spell that he could use safely because he’s a god, and then he would use it to steal Mystra’s position as god of magic.
I am not sure why Vecna would care about being the God of magic. He's an evil undead monster. Why would he care about maintaining the weave?
It would make more sense for him to want to take over from Orcus or something, not become a neutral good god.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Hi,
First of all, I want to say that I know that no such spell exists, but if anyone would ever know how to create one, it would be the Goddess of Magic herself.
The idea is that in a long-forgotten timeline, Mystra gives her hero/champion, a young human girl called, Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke, a far distant and long-forgotten ancestor of Karsus (the very same Karsus who would eventually have his own run-in with Mystra), one-time access to potent magic to banish Hadar back to the Far Realms after the Dark Hunger had descended upon Toril, thanks to its Herald managing to temporarily usurp Selûne divinity and use The Gates of the Moon as a portal, through which they were able to summon the Elder Evil from across the stars.
So powerful was the spell that Mystra created for her Champion that it not only banished Hadar deep into the Far Realms but also banished the memories of that timeline from the minds of all living beings on Toril - including from the mind of the one who cast the spell. Such powerful magic, however, can not be easily forgotten. Despite not remembering anything of the events in which she saved the world, Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke - the once and future Champion of Mystra, was changed forever as the sheer power of the spell would bind her soul to the very essence of magic itself.
Many of the descendants of Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke would become influential users of magic (of which Karsus is perhaps the most imfamous, although no one knows that he was descended from that bloodline, as it was so far in the past that even the hallowed halls of history can barely remember it).
Still, despite having no magical ability, others decened from Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke would become mighty heroes in their own right. Heroes of the sword and spear.
Fast forward many generations, and we get to Mildred, the mother of Herbert.
Essentially, although he doesn't know it, Herbert is a distant descendant of Ki-sikil-lil-la-ke - and shares his ancestry with many of the greatest weilders of magic and mightiest heroes of ages past.
So, would she do it? Would Mystra give her Champion such power - even as a one-time deal?
XD Forge
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
As I understand it magic from ancient Forgotten realms was far more powerful than it is in modern times. Largely due to the cycle of magical catastrophes (Karsis and the fall of Netheral included) that force Mystra to sacrifice herself and be reborn. That is not to say such powerful magic is not possible.
If I was to DM this conundrum I would require the players to gather esoteric and hard-to-find components (such as a relic of a bygone era), then conduct a dangerous ritual that costs spell slots equal to the level of the spell (12) in a place of power (like a wild magic rift) that may or may not require a sacrifice of some kind. Mattering on how successful the ritual is or whether or not it is interrupted would determine the backlash effects of the spell. (mass memory wipe, cataclysm, ect... )
Naturally, the ritual should be conducted by a priest, devout follower, or chosen one of Mystra to act as a conduit of her godly powers.
Hope this was insightful. Game on!
Honor, Integrity, Valor.
No she would not. She's learned how risky that is when her predecessor, Mystryl, died for it. Mystra put the ban in place for a reason. The ban is a line she would not cross, and I am uncertain it's even possible using the weave as it was reconstructed.
Elven high magic might be able to do it, or some custom implementation of 3e's epic magic concept might do it. Crossing the line of allowing a 13th level spell. Some sort of spell that accesses raw magic directly without use of the weave might do it, but there's no way that Mystra would ever condone it.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Ah, you're right.
I always forget that Mystryl and Mystra are two different people and not just a rebirth of the same divine being.
That would mean that it would be Mystryl who would have been the one I was referring to and not Mystra (who is the Goddess of Magic post-Karsus) and likely would be much more hardline about never giving mortals that much power.
I don't know if that would make a difference or not.
:D
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Karsus’Avatar was a L12 spell. Following its casting Mystra banned all L10+ leveled spells leave only Epic/Elven high magic casting above L9. However, prior to Karsus’ folly L12 magic would have been allowed- but no level 12 or higher spells were ever recorded as being created or cast. Could Mystryl hav created a L12 spell during that time and taught it to a follower for a special casting? Nothing in the lore that I know of bars it but why not simply cast it herself without all the backfire drama? The other thing to watch out for is that for a human to be the caster you are mostly looking at the period from -12,000 DR to -3830 DR ( from the end of the elven crown wars to the founding of Netheril) as elves, dragons and the creator races were the leading mages of the earlier ages and humans (probably) rarely if ever made it into the highest ranks of casters.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Different and yet the same. All the lore I have seen states that Mystryl reincarnated (rather than was resurrected) and I don't know if that technically counts as the same or a different creature. It's Mystryl's /soul/ theoretically, but do gods have souls? it's a bit confusing as to how that all works.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Again, we have to watch the timeline carefully. Any time before Karsus L12 magic is possible (but supposedly only the Karsus’ Avatar spell was a a L12 spell. Then Mystryl des and s reborn as Mystra. At that point L 10+ spells no longer can be cast ( but those already cast may still work - a possible reason for the inability to create artifact level items. During the Time of Troubles Mystra dies but is reborn as the human Mage Midnight (who keeps the name Mystra for convienience. Her death in 1385 DR is the reason for the spell plague (& 4e) and the rebirth of Mystra in 1485 DR is the reason for the modern system of magic which even pretty well (RAW) eliminates Epic/Elven High Magic and is the 5e magic system. Under none of the post Karsus Mystra’s could I see her granting even a singe use of a 12 spell. Under the preKarsus Mystryl I could see the storyline you outlined happening at some point either between the end of the elven crown wars and the rise of Netheril or before the rising of the creator races.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Basic Answer: No.
Possibly Better Answer: just use Imprisonment. This can imprison godlike beings such as Tiamat for all eternity. I'm sure it will be sufficient.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
That would work, maybe, but it’s not something that I wanted my character to do. It’s something that my characters far distant ancestor did. I wasn’t trying to get a 12th level spell or anything. The most I thought would happen was that my character would learn some of the truth about his heritage at some point.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
So you are saying that the preKarsus ancestor is he one Mystryl gave the one shot L12 casting too is that correct. If it is then yes they could get it and cast it. If you are trying to have the present (post Karsus) descendant cast it then no there is no RAW way to do so.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Yes, the one pre-Karsus.
I mixed up Mystryl and Mystra - I always forget that these two were/are entirely different beings, but when I said Mystra I actually meant Mystryl. So, those events took place long before Karsus was even born.
It was just something that I thought would keep my character engaged in wanting to adventure into long-lost dungeons etc. While seeking out worthy challenges of honourable combat, through which my character offers his worship of Tempus he would begin to uncover fragments of his true heritage buried in long-forgotten places and almost lost to time, and they set him on a new journey of discovering the truth of his lost ancestry.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
The problem I see (as a DM) is that with that huge backstory and requisite quests you are effectively high jacking the campaign to tell your story. I have 6 players in my current campaign and if each one of them had a backstory and requisite story links/quests like yours there would be no time for the actual story of the campaign. It’s not a horrible idea but it’s more a novel pitch than a multiplayer game character backstory.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
The level 12 spell in 2e made you a god. Karsus tried to use one and, because he’s a mortal, he couldn’t handle the power, and the world was destroyed. The way my DM has it, Vecna is trying to use the ancient netherese obelisks to travel back in time to before Karsus used the spell, then kill him and cast the level 12 spell that he could use safely because he’s a god, and then he would use it to steal Mystra’s position as god of magic.
if you as the DM want her to
I am not sure why Vecna would care about being the God of magic. He's an evil undead monster. Why would he care about maintaining the weave?
It would make more sense for him to want to take over from Orcus or something, not become a neutral good god.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
he could choose to be evil
What he wants is power and he sees controlling magic as the ultimate power. Effectively trying to outdo Shar at becoming the evil god of magic.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
That’s an interesting point I guess.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.