Hello I need to know if a party of 7 level 6 characters can beat a level 20 character as which they most likely can I also need to know how hard it is as I need my party to kill a cult leader
They can probably kill it in about 2 rounds, maybe 3. Unless the 20th-level character has minions of some sort, that might make it take a round longer.
I know a party of 4 11th-level characters can overkill a 16th-level character in 1 round of combat.
They can probably kill it in about 2 rounds, maybe 3. Unless the 20th-level character has minions of some sort, that might make it take a round longer.
It depends on whether the cult leader is a spellcaster, and if so, what spells they have. Quite a few higher level spells can be devastating against players that can't counter them. For example, if no one has high wisdom saves, a single upcast hold person could take them all out.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
A level 6 Fighter is going to have approximately 50hp. Power Word Kill will instantly kill a player under 100hp... No Save. Instant Death. Upcasting a simple Fireball spell to 8th level will deal an average of 46 damage.
A level 20 caster can also cast spells like Time Stop to either flee or set up a No-Win situation. This is completely ignoring the kinds of magical items and resources that a 20th level character would have at their disposal.
Give the party a free "Surprise Round", or a plot device, and it's entirely possible. Play the Cult Leader realistically, and it's basically impossible.
If you are the DM and want to have a challenging, but winnable encounter, don't rely on a particular statblock, and don't use a PC character builder. Create a villain with a tank of hitpoints, a couple of different actions, a few lair actions, and a contingency plan to tip the flow of battle in one direction or the other. (e.g. Have the cult leader drawing power from a breakable source, so that the players can dramatically weaken them once they discover it. Or, have a back-up transformation on deck, so that if they kill the Cult Leader too quickly, you can guarantee a few more rounds of combat.)
If the cult leader rolls a low initiative, the party can possibly take it out in a turn depending on what all they can bring to bear. You got a Sharpshooter Mattlemaster, an optimize Warlock spewing EB, a GWM Barbarian doing its thing, a Crit fisher Paladin, and an Armorer or Artilerist, that’s a lot if it goes nova. With even a smattering of Uncommon Magic weapons that’s capable of a couple hundred HP of damage.
In general yes but it depends a bit on the setup; some degenerate builds might be a problem, and there's a few spells that might TPK the party if they go off at all. Assuming the cult leader is a cleric, though, there aren't that many 'everyone dies' tricks on the cleric list. Other than Gate targeting a major demon.
Here are some things to consider when you design the encounter.
What type of encounter is this? do you want it to be normal or something narrative and epic?
Will the necromancer have adds/minions? (ie as Sposta said, some undead giant skeletons etc).
Does the necromancer have lair actions and legendary resistances/actions?
Are their other layer effects? like a dark pool that reaches out to those alive nearby and drains health?
Where is the encounter? in a lair or out in the open? who does the terrain favor?
If you have a group of characters vs one opponent, the action economy is skewed heavily to the characters (one monk stun can ruin a BBEG day).
But as you asked the question, it depends on initiative and if the 20 character is a spell caster and how much magic they have.
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
In general yes but it depends a bit on the setup; some degenerate builds might be a problem, and there's a few spells that might TPK the party if they go off at all. Assuming the cult leader is a cleric, though, there aren't that many 'everyone dies' tricks on the cleric list. Other than Gate targeting a major demon.
Divine word basically debuffs (possibly majorly debuffs) the entire party. Also keep in mind that an upcast flame strike can kill off or severely wound most characters.
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
In general yes but it depends a bit on the setup; some degenerate builds might be a problem, and there's a few spells that might TPK the party if they go off at all. Assuming the cult leader is a cleric, though, there aren't that many 'everyone dies' tricks on the cleric list. Other than Gate targeting a major demon.
Divine word basically debuffs (possibly majorly debuffs) the entire party. Also keep in mind that an upcast flame strike can kill off or severely wound most characters.
Eh, it's a fairly small area, so it's not going to do more than punk one or two PCs. The problem is when he can just nuke the entire party, such as Meteor Swarm or Psychic Scream.
In general yes but it depends a bit on the setup; some degenerate builds might be a problem, and there's a few spells that might TPK the party if they go off at all. Assuming the cult leader is a cleric, though, there aren't that many 'everyone dies' tricks on the cleric list. Other than Gate targeting a major demon.
Banishment (9th) could take out all but one of the party in a single shot.
Spamming Sanctuary would pretty much make it impossible for the party to win.
Arcane Domain gets 4 wizard spells
Forge Domain gets Animate Objects, which could insta-death at least 2 per round.
Aside from Banishment, it looks like most domains should get at least one option that could effectively TPK a party of level 6 characters. If the party were just slightly higher level, they would be nearly guaranteed to survive at least one round, which would be enough for them to do something.
Again, it all comes down to initiative. 7 6th-level PCs going nova before the 20th can act could win the whole fight right then and there.
That's a given. Unless the 20th level caster has made any attempt to avoid being killed, at all...
If the encounter begins in a room with at least 35ft between the party and the BBEG, or on an elevated platform, the meleeists are probably going to burn their turn just getting into position.
If the BBEG has transparent cover, like a covid plexiglass divider, then ranged attacks and spells won't have line of effect, and the BBEG will have plenty of time to react.
If a Cult Leader has Cult Members, as implied, then the party will probably end up making a lot of noise on the way in. (Giving the BBEG time to act regardless of initiative.)
If the Cult Leader has a hostage, or any other collateral, the party might win the battle, but lose the war.
The answer ends up being: Nearly anything is killable under ideal conditions, but if the conditions are ideal, then the DM has already lowered the effective CR of the encounter dramatically.
Level 6- parties have a few tricks up their sleeve, but a lot of the really useful abilities (I'm looking at you Dimension Door) don't come online until 7th level.
I guess I just always assume it’s like the hallway scene in Princess Bride where both groups turn the corner and...! If Wesley hadn’t been invalid at the time, Count Rogan wouldn’t have made it outta that hallway.
It's best not to use player characters as enemies: compared to monsters, they're total glass cannons. A 20th level character, without backup, has so few hit points they can easily be dogpiled and killed. But they also have enough attack power to totally wipe out a low level party in a round or two. It comes down to initiative, which is not a fun fight. You can incorporate player character abilities into monsters, but that's another story. Two levels above the party with a hit point multiplier equal to the number of characters feels to me roughly equal to a Deadly encounter, which is 1/3 of the adventuring day, but probably don't take my word for it.
What's more (as I learned recently to my chagrin) any party with an enchanter, bard, or other debuff/charm specialist will as often as not trivialize a boss fight with only one foe. A few bad saving throws and the boss will be stuck unable to act for much of the fight as the characters wail on them remorselessly. Now that my players are about to hit 9th level, single-monster fights are very much out!
You may want to consider using the Archmage from the Monster Manual instead of a lvl 20 character, it's simpler to run and the Archmage also knows 9th level spells. His challenge rating is 12 so it would be a challenge, but is doable if the party act smart and don't get too unlucky on the dice rolls.
It's best not to use player characters as enemies: compared to monsters, they're total glass cannons. A 20th level character, without backup, has so few hit points they can easily be dogpiled and killed. But they also have enough attack power to totally wipe out a low level party in a round or two. It comes down to initiative, which is not a fun fight. You can incorporate player character abilities into monsters, but that's another story. Two levels above the party with a hit point multiplier equal to the number of characters feels to me roughly equal to a Deadly encounter, which is 1/3 of the adventuring day, but probably don't take my word for it.
What's more (as I learned recently to my chagrin) any party with an enchanter, bard, or other debuff/charm specialist will as often as not trivialize a boss fight with only one foe. A few bad saving throws and the boss will be stuck unable to act for much of the fight as the characters wail on them remorselessly. Now that my players are about to hit 9th level, single-monster fights are very much out!
Good luck!
The reason I’m using a character sheet is because the cult leader is a glass cannon what the encounter is the party are supposed to defend and plan an attack when he runs out of spell slots is the point where they defeat its just so much easier to track spell slots with a character sheet and that goes for anyone else questioning why I’m using a PC sheet and not archmage stat block
...the party are supposed to defend and plan an attack when he runs out of spell slots...
Oof, if you're expecting the party to wait until a 20th level caster has expended all of their spells, you're going to need to give them some pretty potent magical assistance or it's going to be a very short fight.
The reason I’m using a character sheet is because the cult leader is a glass cannon what the encounter is the party are supposed to defend and plan an attack when he runs out of spell slots is the point where they defeat its just so much easier to track spell slots with a character sheet and that goes for anyone else questioning why I’m using a PC sheet and not archmage stat block
Oof, if you're expecting the party to wait until a 20th level caster has expended all of their spells, you're going to need to give them some pretty potent magical assistance or it's going to be a very short fight.
Also keep in mind that even a lower level spell such as hold person can take a character completely out of the fight.
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew (Mostly Outdated):Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
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Hello I need to know if a party of 7 level 6 characters can beat a level 20 character as which they most likely can I also need to know how hard it is as I need my party to kill a cult leader
They can probably kill it in about 2 rounds, maybe 3. Unless the 20th-level character has minions of some sort, that might make it take a round longer.
I know a party of 4 11th-level characters can overkill a 16th-level character in 1 round of combat.
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It depends on whether the cult leader is a spellcaster, and if so, what spells they have. Quite a few higher level spells can be devastating against players that can't counter them. For example, if no one has high wisdom saves, a single upcast hold person could take them all out.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
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If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
A level 6 Fighter is going to have approximately 50hp. Power Word Kill will instantly kill a player under 100hp... No Save. Instant Death. Upcasting a simple Fireball spell to 8th level will deal an average of 46 damage.
A level 20 caster can also cast spells like Time Stop to either flee or set up a No-Win situation. This is completely ignoring the kinds of magical items and resources that a 20th level character would have at their disposal.
Give the party a free "Surprise Round", or a plot device, and it's entirely possible. Play the Cult Leader realistically, and it's basically impossible.
If you are the DM and want to have a challenging, but winnable encounter, don't rely on a particular statblock, and don't use a PC character builder. Create a villain with a tank of hitpoints, a couple of different actions, a few lair actions, and a contingency plan to tip the flow of battle in one direction or the other. (e.g. Have the cult leader drawing power from a breakable source, so that the players can dramatically weaken them once they discover it. Or, have a back-up transformation on deck, so that if they kill the Cult Leader too quickly, you can guarantee a few more rounds of combat.)
If the cult leader rolls a low initiative, the party can possibly take it out in a turn depending on what all they can bring to bear. You got a Sharpshooter Mattlemaster, an optimize Warlock spewing EB, a GWM Barbarian doing its thing, a Crit fisher Paladin, and an Armorer or Artilerist, that’s a lot if it goes nova. With even a smattering of Uncommon Magic weapons that’s capable of a couple hundred HP of damage.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
In general yes but it depends a bit on the setup; some degenerate builds might be a problem, and there's a few spells that might TPK the party if they go off at all. Assuming the cult leader is a cleric, though, there aren't that many 'everyone dies' tricks on the cleric list. Other than Gate targeting a major demon.
Here are some things to consider when you design the encounter.
If you have a group of characters vs one opponent, the action economy is skewed heavily to the characters (one monk stun can ruin a BBEG day).
But as you asked the question, it depends on initiative and if the 20 character is a spell caster and how much magic they have.
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Divine word basically debuffs (possibly majorly debuffs) the entire party. Also keep in mind that an upcast flame strike can kill off or severely wound most characters.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
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If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Eh, it's a fairly small area, so it's not going to do more than punk one or two PCs. The problem is when he can just nuke the entire party, such as Meteor Swarm or Psychic Scream.
Aside from Banishment, it looks like most domains should get at least one option that could effectively TPK a party of level 6 characters. If the party were just slightly higher level, they would be nearly guaranteed to survive at least one round, which would be enough for them to do something.
Again, it all comes down to initiative. 7 6th-level PCs going nova before the 20th can act could win the whole fight right then and there.
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That's a given. Unless the 20th level caster has made any attempt to avoid being killed, at all...
The answer ends up being: Nearly anything is killable under ideal conditions, but if the conditions are ideal, then the DM has already lowered the effective CR of the encounter dramatically.
Level 6- parties have a few tricks up their sleeve, but a lot of the really useful abilities (I'm looking at you Dimension Door) don't come online until 7th level.
That’s fair.
I guess I just always assume it’s like the hallway scene in Princess Bride where both groups turn the corner and...! If Wesley hadn’t been invalid at the time, Count Rogan wouldn’t have made it outta that hallway.
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Content Troubleshooting
It's best not to use player characters as enemies: compared to monsters, they're total glass cannons. A 20th level character, without backup, has so few hit points they can easily be dogpiled and killed. But they also have enough attack power to totally wipe out a low level party in a round or two. It comes down to initiative, which is not a fun fight. You can incorporate player character abilities into monsters, but that's another story. Two levels above the party with a hit point multiplier equal to the number of characters feels to me roughly equal to a Deadly encounter, which is 1/3 of the adventuring day, but probably don't take my word for it.
What's more (as I learned recently to my chagrin) any party with an enchanter, bard, or other debuff/charm specialist will as often as not trivialize a boss fight with only one foe. A few bad saving throws and the boss will be stuck unable to act for much of the fight as the characters wail on them remorselessly. Now that my players are about to hit 9th level, single-monster fights are very much out!
Good luck!
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
You may want to consider using the Archmage from the Monster Manual instead of a lvl 20 character, it's simpler to run and the Archmage also knows 9th level spells. His challenge rating is 12 so it would be a challenge, but is doable if the party act smart and don't get too unlucky on the dice rolls.
The reason I’m using a character sheet is because the cult leader is a glass cannon what the encounter is the party are supposed to defend and plan an attack when he runs out of spell slots is the point where they defeat its just so much easier to track spell slots with a character sheet and that goes for anyone else questioning why I’m using a PC sheet and not archmage stat block
Oof, if you're expecting the party to wait until a 20th level caster has expended all of their spells, you're going to need to give them some pretty potent magical assistance or it's going to be a very short fight.
Also keep in mind that even a lower level spell such as hold person can take a character completely out of the fight.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homebrew (Mostly Outdated): Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.