I know that a swarm of rats is treated as a single entity and that they are immune to the charmed effect (and thereby the effect of the spell) but my group is in a very small room (roughly 20ft square) so everyone is within the effect's radius and they're all 1st level and have lower HP than the swarm. Do I:
1) Count the rolled HP against individual rats (1HP each for rats for a presumed 24 in the swarm) and rule that it had no effect since they're immune, or
2) Count the rolled HP against the PCs since they range from 8-12 HP at their current level and the swarm has a total of 24 HP?
RAW, you count it against the PCs, though no-one will call the gaming police on you for ruling otherwise. Separately, that's yet another way swarm rules are bad, there's no reason sleep shouldn't work on a swarm.
The swarm is immune to being charmed and thus cannot be affected by Sleep, therefore it's hit points doesn't count towards the total hit points of creatures Sleep can affect so only the PC's will be affected by it as per their hit points.
Swarms are immune to the charmed condition (again presumably...at least in my mind) because the individuals of the swarm are constantly jostling each other and keeping each other in check/on task. 😅 So I'm not inclined to make *part* of the swarm fall asleep.
Yeah @Pantagruel666, I'm onboard with your interpretation of RAW. The question is: Do I stick it to them to make things more interesting or do I nerf it because this game is supposed to be "combat-lite" in the first place? This is part of the final battle of a 1st level one-shot, FWIW.
The swarm is immune to being charmed and thus cannot be affected by Sleep, therefore it's hit points doesn't count towards the total hit points of creatures Sleep can affect so only the PC's will be affected by it as per their hit points.
If the PCs had higher HP than the swarm, that would be very incorrect. The rolled HP would still apply to the swarm but it would be unaffected. As it stands, I think you went down the wrong path but arrived at the right conclusion. 😁
The swarm is immune to being charmed and thus cannot be affected by Sleep, therefore it's hit points doesn't count towards the total hit points of creatures Sleep can affect so only the PC's will be affected by it as per their hit points.
If the PCs had higher HP than the swarm, that would be very incorrect. The rolled HP would still apply to the swarm but it would be unaffected. As it stands, I think you went down the wrong path but arrived at the right conclusion. 😁
No it wouldn't apply to the swarm's hit points as they aren't affected by the Sleep spell.
Sleep: Roll 5d8; the total is how many hit points of creatures this spell can affect...creatures immune to being charmed aren’t affected by this spell.
No it wouldn't apply to the swarm's hit points as they aren't affected by the Sleep spell.
Sleep: Roll 5d8; the total is how many hit points of creatures this spell can affect...creatures immune to being charmed aren’t affected by this spell.
Sleep does not specify whether immune targets are invalid targets (so it doesn't even get applied to them, and thus doesn't count against the hp limit) or valid but immune (to it gets applied to them and has no effect, and counts against the hp limit).
No it wouldn't apply to the swarm's hit points as they aren't affected by the Sleep spell.
Sleep: Roll 5d8; the total is how many hit points of creatures this spell can affect...creatures immune to being charmed aren’t affected by this spell.
Sleep does not specify whether immune targets are invalid targets (so it doesn't even get applied to them, and thus doesn't count against the hp limit) or valid but immune (to it gets applied to them and has no effect, and counts against the hp limit).
The Sleep spell use the word affect/affected specifically for that purpose.
I know that a swarm of rats is treated as a single entity and that they are immune to the charmed effect (and thereby the effect of the spell) but my group is in a very small room (roughly 20ft square) so everyone is within the effect's radius and they're all 1st level and have lower HP than the swarm. Do I:
1) Count the rolled HP against individual rats (1HP each for rats for a presumed 24 in the swarm) and rule that it had no effect since they're immune, or
2) Count the rolled HP against the PCs since they range from 8-12 HP at their current level and the swarm has a total of 24 HP?
Characters currently being ruined on this forum:
Neria Tallfellow (Halfling Rogue) - Curse of the Crimson Throne with Ashen_Age
Very much not raw but I would make the sleep spell basically do damage.8-12 of the rats fall asleep dealing 8-12 damage to the swarm.
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RAW, you count it against the PCs, though no-one will call the gaming police on you for ruling otherwise. Separately, that's yet another way swarm rules are bad, there's no reason sleep shouldn't work on a swarm.
The swarm is immune to being charmed and thus cannot be affected by Sleep, therefore it's hit points doesn't count towards the total hit points of creatures Sleep can affect so only the PC's will be affected by it as per their hit points.
Swarms are immune to the charmed condition (again presumably...at least in my mind) because the individuals of the swarm are constantly jostling each other and keeping each other in check/on task. 😅 So I'm not inclined to make *part* of the swarm fall asleep.
Yeah @Pantagruel666, I'm onboard with your interpretation of RAW. The question is: Do I stick it to them to make things more interesting or do I nerf it because this game is supposed to be "combat-lite" in the first place? This is part of the final battle of a 1st level one-shot, FWIW.
Characters currently being ruined on this forum:
Neria Tallfellow (Halfling Rogue) - Curse of the Crimson Throne with Ashen_Age
If the PCs had higher HP than the swarm, that would be very incorrect. The rolled HP would still apply to the swarm but it would be unaffected. As it stands, I think you went down the wrong path but arrived at the right conclusion. 😁
Characters currently being ruined on this forum:
Neria Tallfellow (Halfling Rogue) - Curse of the Crimson Throne with Ashen_Age
No it wouldn't apply to the swarm's hit points as they aren't affected by the Sleep spell.
Sleep: Roll 5d8; the total is how many hit points of creatures this spell can affect...creatures immune to being charmed aren’t affected by this spell.
Sleep does not specify whether immune targets are invalid targets (so it doesn't even get applied to them, and thus doesn't count against the hp limit) or valid but immune (to it gets applied to them and has no effect, and counts against the hp limit).
The Sleep spell use the word affect/affected specifically for that purpose.
Woah. Went looking for Sage Advice to back me up and found myself shot down! 😅 Ignore the HP of creatures who are immune, as per Mike Mearls!
https://www.sageadvice.eu/do-elves-count-against-the-hp-affected-of-a-sleep-spell/
Looks like my merry band of adventurers are going to have a very unexpected turn of events! 🤣
Characters currently being ruined on this forum:
Neria Tallfellow (Halfling Rogue) - Curse of the Crimson Throne with Ashen_Age