First I want to provide some context: I am a relatively new DM and have played with the same group of people for 3 years. I picked up DMing mostly to give our original DM a break and then the campaign he was running sort of fizzled. I hadn't had an actual "campaign" in mind when I started and there were no plans for a BBEG. I usually ran a one-shot here and there and gave players the option of having a new character each time or using the same one. For the most part, my players (there are 5 of them), decided to keep to the same character. I then decided to do a "mini-campaign" based on a collection of 3 related adventures I found on DMs Guild (called the Requiem of Wings, if you're curious). I thought those modules plus one random module from Candlekeep Mysteries (the Price of Beauty) was going to last just a few sessions...it's been a year. Granted we only meet up about once a month or every other month, but still, it has lasted way longer than the original 3-5 sessions I had expected and now each of the PCs, one in particular, is super invested. I have accepted the fact that we are in a full blown homebrew campaign now and so I am trying to figure out where the story goes from here and I still don't have a big overarching story planned.
I knew that the last session we played was going to be the last one for a while because two of my players (who are married) were getting ready to have their first baby. Knowing we would be going on hiatus, I planned a session that could tie up some loose ends but still leave the story open for when we're all able to play together again. When I ran the "Price of Beauty" module, the hags in that module got away. The PCs had ZERO interest in bargaining with them and attacked the hags so they went invisible and disappeared. I figured I would have the PCs run into the hags again so they could try fighting them and we could close this arc of the story. Instead the PCs decided to strike the MOST impossible bargain with the hags. I purposely made the bargain sound so bad and unachievable so they WOULDN'T agree to it but they did and now here we are.
I feel like my players manifested their own BBEG. I also feel like I can't use the stats of a green hag coven as written. A green hag coven is a CR 5. My PCs are all level 7 now. Should I upscale the coven to be an appropriate BBEG for higher level PCs? In my panic during the session, I had one of the hags to cast True Polymorph on an NPC, so does that mean that (at least as a coven) the hags are level 17 spellcasters?
I would appreciate some productive input. Or even stories about your PCs ruining your plans or mistakes you've made in a panic that impacted your whole story. What, if anything, did you do to fix/reconcile your story? How did you get back on track?
Starting from the back, call it a Lair Action: When all three hags are in their coven, once pr blue moon they can cast True Polymorph.
Traditionally, a coven should be a maiden, a mother and a crone. I'd work with that, making the three different, and giving them different roles to play in a fight. I dunno, the maiden might charm, the mother might heal and the crone might use fear. And yea, they should be strong enough to challenge a level 7 party.
I suppose you gave your players a high risk, high reward sort of deal? Pro-tip: They will always go for those. But here's a thing about hags: They lie. And then they gloat about it, cackling maniacally and crowing Mwaahahaahh, I LIED! Like lying is some hitherto unknown brilliant tactic that they invented.
I can't help you build your campaign, but it's actually traditional for hags to have some forgotten magical maguffin in their hoard that ... is needed for plot progression somehow. Like a miniature world in a magic gem, or some nonsense like that. They kept it because they thought they could be gods to the tiny people of that world, but when they couldn't figure out how, they got bored and tossed it in a corner. Stuff like that.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
For context - is the bargain still a problem? Or is it just basically wondering about the challenge rating of the Hags and whether they are the right BBEG?
If it’s the latter, personally I think that powering up the Hags sounds great. Just take a step back and make them as powerful as you need to have the BBEG. I wouldn’t worry about the True Polymorph that was done on the fly. Yes it’s a bit out of keeping now, but you’re the DM and you can make up a rationale for it.
You could also add in some interesting minions that make the BBEG encounter more interesting/challenging. Perhaps the Hags have got hold of an interesting and powerful magic item that helps them. And perhaps some additional things for them to think about such as needing to save some humans from being sacrificed or something.
If the bargain is a problem are you worried about them not getting to the BBEG fight?
I think the maiden, mother, and crone is a neat idea. green hags can shape shift, so maybe they have some sort of mind reading thing and use whomever their fighting's memories against them? turning into their mother, mentor, or childhood sweetheart? mechanics wise this would translate as a target having disadvantage against a specific hag, but there's *cough cough* PCs and three(?) hags, so they have to pick and choose who they want to target
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Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
This idea is a bit left field and might be a bit more than you want but you could have a coven of 5 instead of 3. This would throw a curve ball to the players and you can build around the coven being taken on one at a time or at least have the PC's come up with some tactics beyond charging in all spells and blades blazing.
The kicker for the coven of 5 is they secretly work for Tiamat and each hag represents a different "Head" of Tiamat, you have a Night Hag represent the Black, Bheur Hag the White, Green Hag the Green, Sea Hag the Blue and an Annis Hag the Red. When altogether the Coven can merge and take on the form of Tiamats Avatar which might drastically change the dynamic of the encounter and you can amend the HP, AC etc for the Hags and draconic form to be a challenge but not impossible to defeat and flavour the Hag spells in more draconic terms such as Fog Cloud being a Cloud of Steam exhaled by the Hag.
Starting from the back, call it a Lair Action: When all three hags are in their coven, once pr blue moon they can cast True Polymorph.
Traditionally, a coven should be a maiden, a mother and a crone. I'd work with that, making the three different, and giving them different roles to play in a fight. I dunno, the maiden might charm, the mother might heal and the crone might use fear. And yea, they should be strong enough to challenge a level 7 party.
I suppose you gave your players a high risk, high reward sort of deal? Pro-tip: They will always go for those. But here's a thing about hags: They lie. And then they gloat about it, cackling maniacally and crowing Mwaahahaahh, I LIED! Like lying is some hitherto unknown brilliant tactic that they invented.
I can't help you build your campaign, but it's actually traditional for hags to have some forgotten magical maguffin in their hoard that ... is needed for plot progression somehow. Like a miniature world in a magic gem, or some nonsense like that. They kept it because they thought they could be gods to the tiny people of that world, but when they couldn't figure out how, they got bored and tossed it in a corner. Stuff like that.
I like the idea a using True Polymorph as a lair action!
And hmm...the miniature world in a magic gem is intriguing. I did read a suggestion about a coven of hags punishing a town by turning it into a snow globe. I could definitely run with something like that.
For context - is the bargain still a problem? Or is it just basically wondering about the challenge rating of the Hags and whether they are the right BBEG?
If it’s the latter, personally I think that powering up the Hags sounds great. Just take a step back and make them as powerful as you need to have the BBEG. I wouldn’t worry about the True Polymorph that was done on the fly. Yes it’s a bit out of keeping now, but you’re the DM and you can make up a rationale for it.
You could also add in some interesting minions that make the BBEG encounter more interesting/challenging. Perhaps the Hags have got hold of an interesting and powerful magic item that helps them. And perhaps some additional things for them to think about such as needing to save some humans from being sacrificed or something.
If the bargain is a problem are you worried about them not getting to the BBEG fight?
I wouldn't say that the bargain is a "problem" exactly. The players have a year and a day [in game] to complete 3 impossible tasks and if they fail at even one of those tasks their souls become the property of the hags and will be the hags' slaves. I read an interesting piece of lore about the hag deity Cegilune who collects souls like fiends do but for an unknown purpose, so I'm toying with the idea of incorporating that somehow IF the players' choices take them there. But I am also wondering what to do if the players try to complete one of the tasks right away and fail (because they will). What sort of game do we play if everyone is a slave? Will the hags send them on nefarious errands? Will their powers get taken away? Will they get sent to another plane or maybe the Feywild? I don't know. I'm not worried about them not getting into the BBEG fight, I guess I'm more concerned with being able to show that actions have consequences. Does that make sense?
I like the idea a using True Polymorph as a lair action!
And hmm...the miniature world in a magic gem is intriguing. I did read a suggestion about a coven of hags punishing a town by turning it into a snow globe. I could definitely run with something like that.
The idea actually springs from the magical land of tiny creatures that live in the lowest drawer of my son's grandmother's dresser. My .. ex-mother-in-law, I guess? There's a tiny elephant mayor who mostly tends gardens, roaming hordes of wildebeasts who are also park rangers, and tiny fire drakes who make fireworks in the sky at night.
Also - and I haven't told my son this yet, so please don't say anything if you run into him - but it's not real! =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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First I want to provide some context: I am a relatively new DM and have played with the same group of people for 3 years. I picked up DMing mostly to give our original DM a break and then the campaign he was running sort of fizzled. I hadn't had an actual "campaign" in mind when I started and there were no plans for a BBEG. I usually ran a one-shot here and there and gave players the option of having a new character each time or using the same one. For the most part, my players (there are 5 of them), decided to keep to the same character. I then decided to do a "mini-campaign" based on a collection of 3 related adventures I found on DMs Guild (called the Requiem of Wings, if you're curious). I thought those modules plus one random module from Candlekeep Mysteries (the Price of Beauty) was going to last just a few sessions...it's been a year. Granted we only meet up about once a month or every other month, but still, it has lasted way longer than the original 3-5 sessions I had expected and now each of the PCs, one in particular, is super invested. I have accepted the fact that we are in a full blown homebrew campaign now and so I am trying to figure out where the story goes from here and I still don't have a big overarching story planned.
I knew that the last session we played was going to be the last one for a while because two of my players (who are married) were getting ready to have their first baby. Knowing we would be going on hiatus, I planned a session that could tie up some loose ends but still leave the story open for when we're all able to play together again. When I ran the "Price of Beauty" module, the hags in that module got away. The PCs had ZERO interest in bargaining with them and attacked the hags so they went invisible and disappeared. I figured I would have the PCs run into the hags again so they could try fighting them and we could close this arc of the story. Instead the PCs decided to strike the MOST impossible bargain with the hags. I purposely made the bargain sound so bad and unachievable so they WOULDN'T agree to it but they did and now here we are.
I feel like my players manifested their own BBEG. I also feel like I can't use the stats of a green hag coven as written. A green hag coven is a CR 5. My PCs are all level 7 now. Should I upscale the coven to be an appropriate BBEG for higher level PCs? In my panic during the session, I had one of the hags to cast True Polymorph on an NPC, so does that mean that (at least as a coven) the hags are level 17 spellcasters?
I would appreciate some productive input. Or even stories about your PCs ruining your plans or mistakes you've made in a panic that impacted your whole story. What, if anything, did you do to fix/reconcile your story? How did you get back on track?
Starting from the back, call it a Lair Action: When all three hags are in their coven, once pr blue moon they can cast True Polymorph.
Traditionally, a coven should be a maiden, a mother and a crone. I'd work with that, making the three different, and giving them different roles to play in a fight. I dunno, the maiden might charm, the mother might heal and the crone might use fear. And yea, they should be strong enough to challenge a level 7 party.
I suppose you gave your players a high risk, high reward sort of deal? Pro-tip: They will always go for those. But here's a thing about hags: They lie. And then they gloat about it, cackling maniacally and crowing Mwaahahaahh, I LIED! Like lying is some hitherto unknown brilliant tactic that they invented.
I can't help you build your campaign, but it's actually traditional for hags to have some forgotten magical maguffin in their hoard that ... is needed for plot progression somehow. Like a miniature world in a magic gem, or some nonsense like that. They kept it because they thought they could be gods to the tiny people of that world, but when they couldn't figure out how, they got bored and tossed it in a corner. Stuff like that.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
For context - is the bargain still a problem? Or is it just basically wondering about the challenge rating of the Hags and whether they are the right BBEG?
If it’s the latter, personally I think that powering up the Hags sounds great. Just take a step back and make them as powerful as you need to have the BBEG. I wouldn’t worry about the True Polymorph that was done on the fly. Yes it’s a bit out of keeping now, but you’re the DM and you can make up a rationale for it.
You could also add in some interesting minions that make the BBEG encounter more interesting/challenging. Perhaps the Hags have got hold of an interesting and powerful magic item that helps them. And perhaps some additional things for them to think about such as needing to save some humans from being sacrificed or something.
If the bargain is a problem are you worried about them not getting to the BBEG fight?
I think the maiden, mother, and crone is a neat idea. green hags can shape shift, so maybe they have some sort of mind reading thing and use whomever their fighting's memories against them? turning into their mother, mentor, or childhood sweetheart? mechanics wise this would translate as a target having disadvantage against a specific hag, but there's *cough cough* PCs and three(?) hags, so they have to pick and choose who they want to target
Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
This idea is a bit left field and might be a bit more than you want but you could have a coven of 5 instead of 3. This would throw a curve ball to the players and you can build around the coven being taken on one at a time or at least have the PC's come up with some tactics beyond charging in all spells and blades blazing.
The kicker for the coven of 5 is they secretly work for Tiamat and each hag represents a different "Head" of Tiamat, you have a Night Hag represent the Black, Bheur Hag the White, Green Hag the Green, Sea Hag the Blue and an Annis Hag the Red. When altogether the Coven can merge and take on the form of Tiamats Avatar which might drastically change the dynamic of the encounter and you can amend the HP, AC etc for the Hags and draconic form to be a challenge but not impossible to defeat and flavour the Hag spells in more draconic terms such as Fog Cloud being a Cloud of Steam exhaled by the Hag.
I like the idea a using True Polymorph as a lair action!
And hmm...the miniature world in a magic gem is intriguing. I did read a suggestion about a coven of hags punishing a town by turning it into a snow globe. I could definitely run with something like that.
I wouldn't say that the bargain is a "problem" exactly. The players have a year and a day [in game] to complete 3 impossible tasks and if they fail at even one of those tasks their souls become the property of the hags and will be the hags' slaves. I read an interesting piece of lore about the hag deity Cegilune who collects souls like fiends do but for an unknown purpose, so I'm toying with the idea of incorporating that somehow IF the players' choices take them there. But I am also wondering what to do if the players try to complete one of the tasks right away and fail (because they will). What sort of game do we play if everyone is a slave? Will the hags send them on nefarious errands? Will their powers get taken away? Will they get sent to another plane or maybe the Feywild? I don't know. I'm not worried about them not getting into the BBEG fight, I guess I'm more concerned with being able to show that actions have consequences. Does that make sense?
Thanks for all the ideas!
The idea actually springs from the magical land of tiny creatures that live in the lowest drawer of my son's grandmother's dresser. My .. ex-mother-in-law, I guess? There's a tiny elephant mayor who mostly tends gardens, roaming hordes of wildebeasts who are also park rangers, and tiny fire drakes who make fireworks in the sky at night.
Also - and I haven't told my son this yet, so please don't say anything if you run into him - but it's not real! =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.