This post seems to be a niche question, but I'm hoping someone has experience in the subject.
I have had several adventures designed as First Tier (levels 1–4) play. I want to upscale these adventures to Second Tier (levels 5–10). Upscaling or swapping the creatures for a higher CR is pretty manageable. I am struggling with upscaling the DC on skill checks or determining if a DC should be upscaled.
Does anyone have experience or tips on upscaling DC to adjust for higher character levels? Or, opinions on upscaling DC.
Reverse engineer them. Figure out what they would have had to roll before using their old stats and the prior DCs, and then adjust the DCs to give them the same odds of success with their current stats.
I always caution DMs when they consider upscaling DCs. Some players have a really hard time accepting that an ability check of 20+ might not be enough to complete a task. If players start feeling impotent when they don't succeed where they feel they should, upscaling might not be the right fit for your table. Some players really like feeling powerful, and upscaling DCs can easily make them feel less powerful.
Also, if you still want to run the "poorly crafted trap" (from a tier 1 adventure) as a "poorly crafted trap" (in a tier 2 adventure), then I don't think you should alter the DC. Increasing the DC in this case would often not make it appear to be poorly crafted. Instead consider adjusting the damage output. I find this a much more forgiving way to increase the difficulty of the encounter without making the characters feel less powerful.
Also, if you still want to run the "poorly crafted trap" (from a tier 1 adventure) as a "poorly crafted trap" (in a tier 2 adventure), then I don't think you should alter the DC.
This is true. If the trap is more difficult, you should adjust its description.
In general tasks fall into "challenge the best", "challenge the competent", and "challenge the inept".
At first level, even the best is going to have difficulty hitting a 20, though a rogue with expertise aided by guidance is over 50%. Competent (say, 14 stat and proficient) will have trouble with a 15, Inept (dump stat) will have trouble with a 10.
By level 20, the expert has gotten +10 from stat bumps and expertise going from +4 to +12, there's magic items to give further bonuses, and effects that boost skill (bardic inspiration, enhance ability, flash of genius, etc) are available enough to be basically spammable, so a reasonable "challenge the best" target is something like 35-40 (sorry, fans of bounded accuracy). The competent probably aren't getting expertise or super investing in things that buff them, but those bonuses still exist, you probably need a 25+. The inept are either fine with automatically failing or should invest in making themselves better (items that set stat to 19, etc).
Numbers, a swarm is far more of a problem than a single big bad for most parties to deal with. Throwing either greater numbers or complimentary creatures into the mix can upgrade the challenge of a fight considerably.
For example the difference between four skeletons and twenty...it's huge. Session 1 of a current campaign was four skeletons and immediately after the last skeleton went down an undying soldier rose. The party sailed through with almost no problem. Later on the party then at level 3-4 made a decision that led to an encounter with twenty skeletons. The challenge for the six of them was quite significant...one of the players was knocked unconscious.
What I take from this is to not underestimate the power of the swarm. More than that, in the first encounter I actually nerfed the Undying Soldier by removing it's multi-attack. With the swarm of 20 skeletons I also placed a few of them as a ranged force. Having some melee and some ranged and out of reach, it changes the dynamic of the battle.
So, when upscaling...if I absolutely have to keep the same monsters for whatever story reason I tend to increase the enemy force size. If I can get away with a different monster though, I'll go with something similarly thematic if I can. I wouldn't want to mess too much with upscaling AC or checks but that's probably because I've never really tried.
The two tables below respectively show the intent of the different DCs from a 1st level character's point of view (or perhaps the average adventurer depending on how you run the game), and the typical effect of different amounts of damage at the different tiers. Again, if you don't intent on changing the flavour of a trap, I wouldn't change the DC, but instead tweak the damage to the appropriate level.
I'd be careful about scaling DCs to tiers. It would mean that someone who isn't expressly trained is going to be unable to do anything effective. Not all skills scale-- only proficient skills do.
It could mean that you end up with climb checks that your wizard is unable to make or perception or insight checks that most of your characters are mathematically disqualified from.
The whole reason a player dedicates their ASI's and proficiencies into an ability is to get better at it - they want to have a higher chance of succeeding than they used to!
By all means start to include more difficult things, which have a higher DC because they are more difficult, not because the players are more powerful, but don't change the DC for anything they've already encountered. If a level 1 character attempts a strength check to lift the anchor on a boat, that DC should not change when they're level 8 and have put points into strength - it should be easier for them!
For another example, if they are trying to sneak past the enemy. At level 1 they might be sneaking past PP11 guards, so need 11+ to sneak past. At higher levels, they might meet PP14 enemies, so need 14+ to sneak, and at higher again might find PP18 foes, so need 18+. But, if they only ever try to sneak past the guards, they will simply find that it gets easier over time. If they have grown used to sneaking past beholders and the like, then when they return to sneak past the city guards, it shouldn't be more difficult because they are higher level!
I'd be careful about scaling DCs to tiers. It would mean that someone who isn't expressly trained is going to be unable to do anything effective. Not all skills scale-- only proficient skills do.
It could mean that you end up with climb checks that your wizard is unable to make or perception or insight checks that most of your characters are mathematically disqualified from.
I found an interesting blog post that expressed the same opinion as you, and it made me think more about my intent for upscaling the DCs. The thought was not to make the DC checks so easy there was never a feeling of a challenge for the players. Looking at the adventures, I want to upscale. I see my pattern looking at the DCs not at the party level but at individual player skills, challenging them when the DC check would be made.
I'd be careful about scaling DCs to tiers. It would mean that someone who isn't expressly trained is going to be unable to do anything effective. Not all skills scale-- only proficient skills do.
It could mean that you end up with climb checks that your wizard is unable to make or perception or insight checks that most of your characters are mathematically disqualified from.
I found an interesting blog post that expressed the same opinion as you, and it made me think more about my intent for upscaling the DCs. The thought was not to make the DC checks so easy there was never a feeling of a challenge for the players. Looking at the adventures, I want to upscale. I see my pattern looking at the DCs not at the party level but at individual player skills, challenging them when the DC check would be made.
Then perhaps you need to consider increasing the achievement of the check?
Perhaps where before a PC was needing a DC15 check to intimidate, now they need a DC20 t oabsolutely terrify, and they intimidate still on a 15, because they have grown better at intimidating?
Where someone needed a DC15 check to lift a door up, before they needed DC15 to lift it up enough for people to crawl through, where now a DC18 will lift it above their head and DC15 will let them crawl through (IE can now prevent people beng prone)
The key thing I think is to scale their achievements to suit - perhaps the doors are now heavier because they are infiltrating a giants fortress, the enemies more alert because there is a war on, and so on. Use it to build tension and a sense of greater achievement. Nobody wants to try and bend an iron bar to show off, then gain a bunch of levels, then find that bending the bar is arbitrarily more difficult now because their character is stronger. Keep the sorts of challenges they have faced before on the same level, and make new ones with justifications for being more difficult - the locks are more difficult to pick because of your renown as a lockpick and the enemy knew the party was coming (they seem new, and are very intricate). The doors are heavy because the BBEG is defending against heroes, not wannabes. The traps are well hidden because these aren't kobolds stealing sheep, it's an evil mage defending his stronghold.
And keep throwing in the easy stuff too, so that they feel like they have achieved something. Modern mobile games work on people getting addicted to the idea of them gaining more power, but also arbitrarily increase the difficulty, so the only real difference between levels is the amount of time you invest in them. Don't be a mobile game developer! doubling your damage output means nothing if the enemies suddenly double in HP to match it. Let people get good at stuff, and then let the world get more difficult.
The Angry GM made a good series on making a megadungeon, in which he covers the old fashioned videogame leveling system he wanted to use, which I loved the idea of. Basically, the enemies would only ramp up every few levels - so you'd start by finding fights difficult, then they would get easier after leveling up, then the enemies will improve to make things difficult again. This style helps with the feeling of progression ("I just got more powerful, and now fights are easier!") rather than everything scaling accordingly ("I just got more powerful, and so did my enemies!").
I'd be careful about scaling DCs to tiers. It would mean that someone who isn't expressly trained is going to be unable to do anything effective. Not all skills scale-- only proficient skills do.
It could mean that you end up with climb checks that your wizard is unable to make or perception or insight checks that most of your characters are mathematically disqualified from.
Why is that a problem? It's already the case for opposed checks, for example there are no adult dragons with a passive perception of less than 21.
The two tables below respectively show the intent of the different DCs from a 1st level character's point of view (or perhaps the average adventurer depending on how you run the game), and the typical effect of different amounts of damage at the different tiers. Again, if you don't intent on changing the flavour of a trap, I wouldn't change the DC, but instead tweak the damage to the appropriate level.
Typical Difficulty Classes
Task Difficulty
DC
Very easy
5
Easy
10
Medium
15
Hard
20
Very hard
25
Nearly impossible
30
Another way of looking at this is
Task Difficulty
DC
Very easy
5
Common
10
Uncommon
15
Rare
20
Very Rare
25
Legendary
30
Given that you're supposed to have Uncommon stuff in tier 1, Rare in tier 2, Very Rare in tier 3, and Legendary in tier 4, you should have the same challenges...
The two tables below respectively show the intent of the different DCs from a 1st level character's point of view (or perhaps the average adventurer depending on how you run the game), and the typical effect of different amounts of damage at the different tiers. Again, if you don't intent on changing the flavour of a trap, I wouldn't change the DC, but instead tweak the damage to the appropriate level.
Typical Difficulty Classes
Task Difficulty
DC
Very easy
5
Easy
10
Medium
15
Hard
20
Very hard
25
Nearly impossible
30
Another way of looking at this is
Task Difficulty
DC
Very easy
5
Common
10
Uncommon
15
Rare
20
Very Rare
25
Legendary
30
Given that you're supposed to have Uncommon stuff in tier 1, Rare in tier 2, Very Rare in tier 3, and Legendary in tier 4, you should have the same challenges...
You could definitely try to sync up your DCs to the rarity of magic items you hand out. I'm not sure exactly how you'd use that table as a guidance for random skill checks though. Also, just to clear up a potential misunderstanding, the intervals you mention are not when you are supposed to have magic items of certain rarities, it is the minimum level requirement suggested to possess said items. The DMG also suggests that a character that starts out in tier 3 in a standard campaign only possess 2 uncommon magic items, while a character starting in tier 4 starts with an additional rare magic item. All this just to say that the rules leave it very much up to the DM to decide the pace of handing out magic items.
A sided question, how do you set or determine DC for a situation when it is called for?
The point of the table I pasted in my previous comment is to give DMs a quick idea of the appropriate DC for a task depending on how difficult you want it to be (easy, medium, hard, etc.). However, it is balanced for 1st level characters, which can make it difficult to use on the fly at higher tiers. Also, I personally don't agree with the descriptions of the labels (DC10 is supposed to be an easy task, but will result in 45% failing it). If I had to rework the table so it makes sense to me, I'd move all the labels one step up as seen in the table below. To make it work at different tiers (make it fit the characters' POV), I think it might work to simply add +1 to the DC at every tier. Example: A hard task for the average characters at level 5-10 would be DC17.
Typical Difficulty Class (reworked) DC +1 per tier of play
Task Difficulty
DC
Easy
5
Medium
10
Hard
15
Very hard
20
Nearly impossible
25
Inconceivable
30
Example of how it would likely work out in game Lets say you have a group of five tier 2 characters that has to complete a task. For the purpose of this example, they all rely on their individual skills, and don't use magic or magical items. Three of them are not proficient in the required skill (with an ability modifier of +1), one is proficient (with an ability modifier of +2), and one is an expert (with an ability modifier of +3).
1. A task of medium difficulty (10+2 = DC12) from their point of view. The Expert very likely succeeds (+9 to the roll, resulting in a 90% chance of success). The Proficient likely succeeds as well (+5 to the roll, resulting in a 70% chance of success). The unproficient might succeed (+1 to the roll, resulting in a 45% chance of success).
Result: Three, four, or five out of the five members succeed.
2. A task of hard difficulty (15+2 = DC17) from their point of view. The Expert likely succeeds (+9 to the roll, resulting in a 65% chance of success). The Proficient might succeed (+5 to the roll, resulting in a 45% chance of success). The unproficient are very unlikely to succeed (+1 to the roll, resulting in a 25% chance of success).
Result: One or two of the five are likely to succeed.
3. A task of very hard difficulty (20+2 = DC22) from their point of view. The Expert might succeed (+9 to the roll, resulting in a 40% chance of success). The Proficient is very unlikely to succeed (+5 to the roll, resulting in a 20% chance of success). The unproficient cannot succeed (+1 to the roll, resulting in a 0% chance of success).
Result: One of the five might succeed.
4. A task of unconceivable difficulty (30+2) from their point of view. Not even an expert with an ability score of 20 would be able to succeed this task at this tier. At tier 3, an expert with an ability score of 20 would be able to succeed a task of unconceivable difficulty (30+3) with a roll of 20.
The characters' stats could very well be higher or lower than assumed in the scenarios above, altering the chances of success accordingly. The usage of spells and magical items would likewise increase the characters' chance of success.
You could definitely try to sync up your DCs to the rarity of magic items you hand out. I'm not sure exactly how you'd use that table as a guidance for random skill checks though.
Of course not. You go "Is this a Legendary trap? DC 30" or whatever. A level 20 PC can still run into a wooden door (Common challenge, DC 10) it just isn't a relevant challenge.
Depending on the dungeon or npc's difficulties or proficiencies I go by this. Like fooling a kind farmer at level 1 would obviously be a 5 but talking your way out of a lvl15 confrontation should be hard so that's automatically a DC of 20. If the party does something dumb or incriminating I make them roll with disadvantage even if the DC is 25. Keeping them standard also makes the players feel like it's more fair and they know what to expect when something is meant to get harder.
I think the key point for me is that the adventurers should be encountering new things which are more difficult when they are higher levels - they shouldn't be finding the same thing more difficult just so that it remains a challenge - getting good at something is meant to reduce the challenge!
Take rock climbing for example. Someone who's never done it might struggle to scale a 3m boulder on the beach, but someone who is experienced at rock climbing might scamper up it with ease. The boulder shouldn't get arbitrarily more difficult for the veteran just to make it the same challenge - the veteran should be seeking out bigger challenges instead!
So yeah, breaking down a heavy oak door will always be a DC20 check, but that DC20 will get easier to attain the more powerful you get. For a level 1, it's a lucky roll. For a level 15 with a belt of giant strength, it's a (literal) pushover!
So for scaling the world, instead scale what they encounter, which so happens to be a higher DC because they can take it - but leave some of it the same, don't make them just as likely to succeed or fail when they have worked to get better at something!
This post seems to be a niche question, but I'm hoping someone has experience in the subject.
I have had several adventures designed as First Tier (levels 1–4) play. I want to upscale these adventures to Second Tier (levels 5–10). Upscaling or swapping the creatures for a higher CR is pretty manageable. I am struggling with upscaling the DC on skill checks or determining if a DC should be upscaled.
Does anyone have experience or tips on upscaling DC to adjust for higher character levels? Or, opinions on upscaling DC.
I'd probably increase DCs by around 20% -- 10 to 12, 15 to 18, 20 to 24.
Reverse engineer them. Figure out what they would have had to roll before using their old stats and the prior DCs, and then adjust the DCs to give them the same odds of success with their current stats.
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Thanks for the suggestions I appreciate it!
I always caution DMs when they consider upscaling DCs. Some players have a really hard time accepting that an ability check of 20+ might not be enough to complete a task. If players start feeling impotent when they don't succeed where they feel they should, upscaling might not be the right fit for your table. Some players really like feeling powerful, and upscaling DCs can easily make them feel less powerful.
Also, if you still want to run the "poorly crafted trap" (from a tier 1 adventure) as a "poorly crafted trap" (in a tier 2 adventure), then I don't think you should alter the DC. Increasing the DC in this case would often not make it appear to be poorly crafted. Instead consider adjusting the damage output. I find this a much more forgiving way to increase the difficulty of the encounter without making the characters feel less powerful.
This is true. If the trap is more difficult, you should adjust its description.
In general tasks fall into "challenge the best", "challenge the competent", and "challenge the inept".
At first level, even the best is going to have difficulty hitting a 20, though a rogue with expertise aided by guidance is over 50%. Competent (say, 14 stat and proficient) will have trouble with a 15, Inept (dump stat) will have trouble with a 10.
By level 20, the expert has gotten +10 from stat bumps and expertise going from +4 to +12, there's magic items to give further bonuses, and effects that boost skill (bardic inspiration, enhance ability, flash of genius, etc) are available enough to be basically spammable, so a reasonable "challenge the best" target is something like 35-40 (sorry, fans of bounded accuracy). The competent probably aren't getting expertise or super investing in things that buff them, but those bonuses still exist, you probably need a 25+. The inept are either fine with automatically failing or should invest in making themselves better (items that set stat to 19, etc).
Overall, then, I would say:
Numbers, a swarm is far more of a problem than a single big bad for most parties to deal with. Throwing either greater numbers or complimentary creatures into the mix can upgrade the challenge of a fight considerably.
For example the difference between four skeletons and twenty...it's huge. Session 1 of a current campaign was four skeletons and immediately after the last skeleton went down an undying soldier rose. The party sailed through with almost no problem. Later on the party then at level 3-4 made a decision that led to an encounter with twenty skeletons. The challenge for the six of them was quite significant...one of the players was knocked unconscious.
What I take from this is to not underestimate the power of the swarm. More than that, in the first encounter I actually nerfed the Undying Soldier by removing it's multi-attack. With the swarm of 20 skeletons I also placed a few of them as a ranged force. Having some melee and some ranged and out of reach, it changes the dynamic of the battle.
So, when upscaling...if I absolutely have to keep the same monsters for whatever story reason I tend to increase the enemy force size. If I can get away with a different monster though, I'll go with something similarly thematic if I can. I wouldn't want to mess too much with upscaling AC or checks but that's probably because I've never really tried.
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The two tables below respectively show the intent of the different DCs from a 1st level character's point of view (or perhaps the average adventurer depending on how you run the game), and the typical effect of different amounts of damage at the different tiers. Again, if you don't intent on changing the flavour of a trap, I wouldn't change the DC, but instead tweak the damage to the appropriate level.
Typical Difficulty Classes
Damage Severity and Level
I'd be careful about scaling DCs to tiers. It would mean that someone who isn't expressly trained is going to be unable to do anything effective. Not all skills scale-- only proficient skills do.
It could mean that you end up with climb checks that your wizard is unable to make or perception or insight checks that most of your characters are mathematically disqualified from.
I would say don't.
The whole reason a player dedicates their ASI's and proficiencies into an ability is to get better at it - they want to have a higher chance of succeeding than they used to!
By all means start to include more difficult things, which have a higher DC because they are more difficult, not because the players are more powerful, but don't change the DC for anything they've already encountered. If a level 1 character attempts a strength check to lift the anchor on a boat, that DC should not change when they're level 8 and have put points into strength - it should be easier for them!
For another example, if they are trying to sneak past the enemy. At level 1 they might be sneaking past PP11 guards, so need 11+ to sneak past. At higher levels, they might meet PP14 enemies, so need 14+ to sneak, and at higher again might find PP18 foes, so need 18+. But, if they only ever try to sneak past the guards, they will simply find that it gets easier over time. If they have grown used to sneaking past beholders and the like, then when they return to sneak past the city guards, it shouldn't be more difficult because they are higher level!
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I found an interesting blog post that expressed the same opinion as you, and it made me think more about my intent for upscaling the DCs. The thought was not to make the DC checks so easy there was never a feeling of a challenge for the players. Looking at the adventures, I want to upscale. I see my pattern looking at the DCs not at the party level but at individual player skills, challenging them when the DC check would be made.
Then perhaps you need to consider increasing the achievement of the check?
Perhaps where before a PC was needing a DC15 check to intimidate, now they need a DC20 t oabsolutely terrify, and they intimidate still on a 15, because they have grown better at intimidating?
Where someone needed a DC15 check to lift a door up, before they needed DC15 to lift it up enough for people to crawl through, where now a DC18 will lift it above their head and DC15 will let them crawl through (IE can now prevent people beng prone)
The key thing I think is to scale their achievements to suit - perhaps the doors are now heavier because they are infiltrating a giants fortress, the enemies more alert because there is a war on, and so on. Use it to build tension and a sense of greater achievement. Nobody wants to try and bend an iron bar to show off, then gain a bunch of levels, then find that bending the bar is arbitrarily more difficult now because their character is stronger. Keep the sorts of challenges they have faced before on the same level, and make new ones with justifications for being more difficult - the locks are more difficult to pick because of your renown as a lockpick and the enemy knew the party was coming (they seem new, and are very intricate). The doors are heavy because the BBEG is defending against heroes, not wannabes. The traps are well hidden because these aren't kobolds stealing sheep, it's an evil mage defending his stronghold.
And keep throwing in the easy stuff too, so that they feel like they have achieved something. Modern mobile games work on people getting addicted to the idea of them gaining more power, but also arbitrarily increase the difficulty, so the only real difference between levels is the amount of time you invest in them. Don't be a mobile game developer! doubling your damage output means nothing if the enemies suddenly double in HP to match it. Let people get good at stuff, and then let the world get more difficult.
The Angry GM made a good series on making a megadungeon, in which he covers the old fashioned videogame leveling system he wanted to use, which I loved the idea of. Basically, the enemies would only ramp up every few levels - so you'd start by finding fights difficult, then they would get easier after leveling up, then the enemies will improve to make things difficult again. This style helps with the feeling of progression ("I just got more powerful, and now fights are easier!") rather than everything scaling accordingly ("I just got more powerful, and so did my enemies!").
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Why is that a problem? It's already the case for opposed checks, for example there are no adult dragons with a passive perception of less than 21.
Another way of looking at this is
Given that you're supposed to have Uncommon stuff in tier 1, Rare in tier 2, Very Rare in tier 3, and Legendary in tier 4, you should have the same challenges...
A sided question, how do you set or determine DC for a situation when it is called for?
You could definitely try to sync up your DCs to the rarity of magic items you hand out. I'm not sure exactly how you'd use that table as a guidance for random skill checks though. Also, just to clear up a potential misunderstanding, the intervals you mention are not when you are supposed to have magic items of certain rarities, it is the minimum level requirement suggested to possess said items. The DMG also suggests that a character that starts out in tier 3 in a standard campaign only possess 2 uncommon magic items, while a character starting in tier 4 starts with an additional rare magic item. All this just to say that the rules leave it very much up to the DM to decide the pace of handing out magic items.
The point of the table I pasted in my previous comment is to give DMs a quick idea of the appropriate DC for a task depending on how difficult you want it to be (easy, medium, hard, etc.). However, it is balanced for 1st level characters, which can make it difficult to use on the fly at higher tiers. Also, I personally don't agree with the descriptions of the labels (DC10 is supposed to be an easy task, but will result in 45% failing it). If I had to rework the table so it makes sense to me, I'd move all the labels one step up as seen in the table below. To make it work at different tiers (make it fit the characters' POV), I think it might work to simply add +1 to the DC at every tier. Example: A hard task for the average characters at level 5-10 would be DC17.
Typical Difficulty Class (reworked)
DC +1 per tier of play
Example of how it would likely work out in game
Lets say you have a group of five tier 2 characters that has to complete a task. For the purpose of this example, they all rely on their individual skills, and don't use magic or magical items. Three of them are not proficient in the required skill (with an ability modifier of +1), one is proficient (with an ability modifier of +2), and one is an expert (with an ability modifier of +3).
1. A task of medium difficulty (10+2 = DC12) from their point of view.
The Expert very likely succeeds (+9 to the roll, resulting in a 90% chance of success).
The Proficient likely succeeds as well (+5 to the roll, resulting in a 70% chance of success).
The unproficient might succeed (+1 to the roll, resulting in a 45% chance of success).
Result: Three, four, or five out of the five members succeed.
2. A task of hard difficulty (15+2 = DC17) from their point of view.
The Expert likely succeeds (+9 to the roll, resulting in a 65% chance of success).
The Proficient might succeed (+5 to the roll, resulting in a 45% chance of success).
The unproficient are very unlikely to succeed (+1 to the roll, resulting in a 25% chance of success).
Result: One or two of the five are likely to succeed.
3. A task of very hard difficulty (20+2 = DC22) from their point of view.
The Expert might succeed (+9 to the roll, resulting in a 40% chance of success).
The Proficient is very unlikely to succeed (+5 to the roll, resulting in a 20% chance of success).
The unproficient cannot succeed (+1 to the roll, resulting in a 0% chance of success).
Result: One of the five might succeed.
4. A task of unconceivable difficulty (30+2) from their point of view.
Not even an expert with an ability score of 20 would be able to succeed this task at this tier. At tier 3, an expert with an ability score of 20 would be able to succeed a task of unconceivable difficulty (30+3) with a roll of 20.
The characters' stats could very well be higher or lower than assumed in the scenarios above, altering the chances of success accordingly. The usage of spells and magical items would likewise increase the characters' chance of success.
Of course not. You go "Is this a Legendary trap? DC 30" or whatever. A level 20 PC can still run into a wooden door (Common challenge, DC 10) it just isn't a relevant challenge.
5-very easy.
10- easy.
15-average.
20-hard.
25- very hard.
30-impossible.
Depending on the dungeon or npc's difficulties or proficiencies I go by this. Like fooling a kind farmer at level 1 would obviously be a 5 but talking your way out of a lvl15 confrontation should be hard so that's automatically a DC of 20. If the party does something dumb or incriminating I make them roll with disadvantage even if the DC is 25. Keeping them standard also makes the players feel like it's more fair and they know what to expect when something is meant to get harder.
I think the key point for me is that the adventurers should be encountering new things which are more difficult when they are higher levels - they shouldn't be finding the same thing more difficult just so that it remains a challenge - getting good at something is meant to reduce the challenge!
Take rock climbing for example. Someone who's never done it might struggle to scale a 3m boulder on the beach, but someone who is experienced at rock climbing might scamper up it with ease. The boulder shouldn't get arbitrarily more difficult for the veteran just to make it the same challenge - the veteran should be seeking out bigger challenges instead!
So yeah, breaking down a heavy oak door will always be a DC20 check, but that DC20 will get easier to attain the more powerful you get. For a level 1, it's a lucky roll. For a level 15 with a belt of giant strength, it's a (literal) pushover!
So for scaling the world, instead scale what they encounter, which so happens to be a higher DC because they can take it - but leave some of it the same, don't make them just as likely to succeed or fail when they have worked to get better at something!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!