Social interaction is definitely one of the key pillars if not the main reason to play the game. As part of the adventure, the relationships between the player characters often makes the difference between survival and treasure versus death and defeat. As a dungeon master, one strives to foster this interaction with opportunities for engagement, such as table talk at the tavern.
However, making these interaction works can become challenging. For instance, currently, I am designing an adventure where one of the players is secretly the villain who reveals herself in the final stages of the adventure. Part of her task during the adventure is to use the rest of the party to clear her way to the lair and to divide them so she can defeat them when she arrives and transforms. One of the best ways to divide and conquer is to establish secret plans.
To this end, I have been working on a message system where players can send messages. I have been directing players to communicate these messages to each other in text. Several problems arise. The messages cannot all be secret. Otherwise, every time someone sends a text message, the rest of the party knows that something is up. Secondly, there needs to be a need for this messaging for other than secret messaging. As soon as it is announced that secret messages are being issued, the party will breakdown into fits of paranoia.
Does anyone else out there have some solution or techniques for handing messaging among player characters that would allow for secret messaging that they would like to share?
…one of the players is secretly the villain who reveals herself in the final stages of the adventure. Part of her task during the adventure is to use the rest of the party to clear her way to the lair and to divide them so she can defeat them when she arrives and transforms.
What's your plan for the point in the game when the rest of the players look at this player and ask, "You've been lying to us this whole time?"
If and when she is discovered, they will turn on her. If she has transformed, she will be a significant challenge. If she is caught too early, then they will have much less of a challenge in defeating her. The central purpose of the story line will also change. Without the transformation, the crisis and its climax is diminished if not completely sideswiped.
I do not want to create a fixed story line adventure, but I do want to have an adventure with intrigue that builds to a conclusion with a final encounter. Hence, I want to create a message mechanism used for regular communication that can allow for secret messages.
At the same time, I would prefer the players talk openly as part of the role play. I do not want the campaign to descend into a flurry of texts.
Personally I'd have them pass notes instead of using cell phones, just because it's so easy to get distracted by a phone. Coming up with a system that keeps not only the content of a message secret but also obscures the sending and receiving from people at the same table is probably not worth it (or possible?). Have a conversation with the players and remind them to guard against meta-gaming influencing in character play. They will probably have a lot of fun, developing suspicions and such as players but acting clueless in character.
On the other hand, if everyone is using electronic character sheets on phones,tablets, or laptops then it's much less obvious when a player send or receives a message, just put devices on silent.
Thanks for the advice. The passing notes idea would work well with "guard[s] against meta-gaming influencing". It would certainly prompt conversation and role playing.
I was planning on having players using the D&D Beyond Character tracking online. Each would have a tablet or laptop. Then, they could use Google Hangouts to exchange messages. However, the notes may be more social and more intriguing.
You could establish a general note passing culture where the DM is the postal service. You make a habit of passing many notes out all the time, with tidbits of history, something they spotted, or secret stuff from a characters backstory. The PCs might sometimes immediately share the content of a note, or might not. Also encourage the players to hand you notes for any reason; questions for later, something they want to do quietly, personal goals for their character, etc. Now you have a flow set up, let people put a from and to address in their notes, pass it to the DM, then after a random amount of time you pass it on to the intended recipient without saying what it is or who wrote it (but it has its written from info). Also let players know they can pass secret notes among themselves if they want to. Might be best to ensure the campaign has a generally shifty feel to it so all this feels natural. Fill it with spies and agents, codes and ciphers. Give all players secrets and personal objectives, but make many of them less harmful to reveal and really more of a character growth arc. It'll take some care to ensure things don't get too adversarial though - maybe some players personal objective is just to do whatever they can to help some other player with their personal quest while remaining unnoticed.
Have the players pass the notes to the DM, and then have the DM pass the notes to the players. And be ready to, as the DM, increase the intrigue slightly by passing blank notes, passing notes that are more or less meaningless (you see a small animal in the grass, it growls at you and runs away!) and/or notes not written by your "ally," but notes that could have been written by anyone. For instance, a note that says "she's playing you" or "i'm on your side" passed after one of your players gets into an argument with another player. Also, make sure that the NPCs in your character's lives are using the message system to it's fullest. The king's tax collector wishes to remind you that you are expected to pay a balance of 190gold in 3 weeks time. Scrum, your camp **** is demanding payment for his last 3 days of service. etc.
The more notes that get passed, the more natural and "part of the game" getting notes will feel.
Going a bit deeper into this question: I don’t know the game that you’re in, I don’t know you or your players. But if I were one of the other players in that game, while I’d enjoy it, I wouldn’t be able to escape the feeling that you’re playing favorites. After all, the whole reason for the secret messages is so that your *single* player can do what she wants, and it doesn’t really do much for the rest of the party, assuming they’re a regular group of friendly-enough adventurers.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Going a bit deeper into this question: I don’t know the game that you’re in, I don’t know you or your players. But if I were one of the other players in that game, while I’d enjoy it, I wouldn’t be able to escape the feeling that you’re playing favorites. After all, the whole reason for the secret messages is so that your *single* player can do what she wants, and it doesn’t really do much for the rest of the party, assuming they’re a regular group of friendly-enough adventurers.
Well, the reason for setting up the system is so that the secret player can pass secret notes, that's true... But anyone can use the note system, and if the DM is doing his job properly, they should ALL be using the note system, so No. I disagree with this...
But to add to this idea, you could add a couple more "note generators" to the party that target other players. Perhaps 1 player is a member of the lords alliance, with the authority to induct 1 other member of the party, and he has a contact that he needs to communicate with on a regular basis. Perhaps another player has an old friend that likes to write him funny notes about how he fell into an ancient tomb and was challenged by a lich to an 80s videogame for his life. Whatever.
The players will not feel like you are playing favorites.
@RegentCorreon - The DM postal service would work well. It would make the message system functional and natural, with secret messages being one possibility. Thanks.
@Diplomacy - I like the random notes idea. Adding blank, meaningless and NPC messages would certainly make the message system part of the game. Thanks.
@Yeenoghu900 - Messages would help communication. The secret messages are needed as one of the characters is secretly working to divide and conquer the group as part of the central story line.
Going a bit deeper into this question: I don’t know the game that you’re in, I don’t know you or your players. But if I were one of the other players in that game, while I’d enjoy it, I wouldn’t be able to escape the feeling that you’re playing favorites. After all, the whole reason for the secret messages is so that your *single* player can do what she wants, and it doesn’t really do much for the rest of the party, assuming they’re a regular group of friendly-enough adventurers.
Well, the reason for setting up the system is so that the secret player can pass secret notes, that's true... But anyone can use the note system, and if the DM is doing his job properly, they should ALL be using the note system, so No. I disagree with this...
But to add to this idea, you could add a couple more "note generators" to the party that target other players. Perhaps 1 player is a member of the lords alliance, with the authority to induct 1 other member of the party, and he has a contact that he needs to communicate with on a regular basis. Perhaps another player has an old friend that likes to write him funny notes about how he fell into an ancient tomb and was challenged by a lich to an 80s videogame for his life. Whatever.
The players will not feel like you are playing favorites.
The note generators would certainly give substance to the message system. Favouritism may not be the intention, but it could be the perception of at least one or more players. However, the note generators and the other suggests would quickly eliminate this perception.
I agree with you @Diplomacy that the message system will work if the DM does his job properly.
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. They will certainly be helpful in making the adventure work and be social.
The only comment I would make is that any note passing system can significantly slow down play at times. I've played in campaigns where the characters used notes to communicate with the DM and other characters because there were aspects or abilities of the characters that were secret or their alignments were such that they might not automatically share all that they learned with the party. However, note passing has to be used frequently enough that it does not arouse suspicion without being so frequent that the game grinds to a halt.
I've played in encounters where several notes are passed before the DM can describe anything to the other players ... there have been times when the DM steps out of the room with one or more characters to more efficiently deal with what they can see or actions they will take before the rest of the party gets input ... even occasions when some of the characters/players step out of the room to have a secret discussion.
Finally, if you are building a campaign around using this sort of mechanism to encourage secrecy then I think you should add a couple of things ..
- everyone should have secrets. If there is only one villain hiding anything then they will stand out when they start plotting. If everyone has some form of secret agenda,goal or objective then no one will be surprised at note passing or 1:1 chats with the DM or other players.
- physical notes are preferable to texts since the content is much less likely to be noticed by the other players. Texts on someone's phone can be very easy to see by accident.
- your villain is going to have to be pretty subtle or it may become obvious that they are a problem that will need to be dealt with
Finally, without giving it away, you should probably come up with some way to cushion the blow of the betrayal at the end. There are a lot of D&D players who intrinsically trust their party members (I've played and DMed enough campaigns with significant intra-party conflicts, in some cases just due to the players choosing characters with ultimately incompatible goals) ... but there are a lot of people who don't separate character from player very well. If the villain character does a good job then there are some players who will be angry and upset in real life since they will see this as a betrayal by the player rather than the character and it could come as quite a shock. Only you can judge the temperament of your players and how well they can separate character role-playing from what the player says ... but you may want to take a close look at that before embarking on an adventure where you, as the DM, have conspired with one of the players, to bring them into the story in the role of what would be the main opponent NPC.
The only comment I would make is that any note passing system can significantly slow down play at times. I've played in campaigns where the characters used notes to communicate with the DM and other characters because there were aspects or abilities of the characters that were secret or their alignments were such that they might not automatically share all that they learned with the party. However, note passing has to be used frequently enough that it does not arouse suspicion without being so frequent that the game grinds to a halt.
I've played in encounters where several notes are passed before the DM can describe anything to the other players ... there have been times when the DM steps out of the room with one or more characters to more efficiently deal with what they can see or actions they will take before the rest of the party gets input ... even occasions when some of the characters/players step out of the room to have a secret discussion.
Finally, if you are building a campaign around using this sort of mechanism to encourage secrecy then I think you should add a couple of things ..
- everyone should have secrets. If there is only one villain hiding anything then they will stand out when they start plotting. If everyone has some form of secret agenda,goal or objective then no one will be surprised at note passing or 1:1 chats with the DM or other players.
- physical notes are preferable to texts since the content is much less likely to be noticed by the other players. Texts on someone's phone can be very easy to see by accident.
- your villain is going to have to be pretty subtle or it may become obvious that they are a problem that will need to be dealt with
Finally, without giving it away, you should probably come up with some way to cushion the blow of the betrayal at the end. There are a lot of D&D players who intrinsically trust their party members (I've played and DMed enough campaigns with significant intra-party conflicts, in some cases just due to the players choosing characters with ultimately incompatible goals) ... but there are a lot of people who don't separate character from player very well. If the villain character does a good job then there are some players who will be angry and upset in real life since they will see this as a betrayal by the player rather than the character and it could come as quite a shock. Only you can judge the temperament of your players and how well they can separate character role-playing from what the player says ... but you may want to take a close look at that before embarking on an adventure where you, as the DM, have conspired with one of the players, to bring them into the story in the role of what would be the main opponent NPC.
@David42 Thanks for the suggestions.
I will certainly make sure that every player has secrets and private conversations. I will certainly heed your advice on defusing the betrayal feeling.
Social interaction is definitely one of the key pillars if not the main reason to play the game. As part of the adventure, the relationships between the player characters often makes the difference between survival and treasure versus death and defeat. As a dungeon master, one strives to foster this interaction with opportunities for engagement, such as table talk at the tavern.
However, making these interaction works can become challenging. For instance, currently, I am designing an adventure where one of the players is secretly the villain who reveals herself in the final stages of the adventure. Part of her task during the adventure is to use the rest of the party to clear her way to the lair and to divide them so she can defeat them when she arrives and transforms. One of the best ways to divide and conquer is to establish secret plans.
To this end, I have been working on a message system where players can send messages. I have been directing players to communicate these messages to each other in text. Several problems arise. The messages cannot all be secret. Otherwise, every time someone sends a text message, the rest of the party knows that something is up. Secondly, there needs to be a need for this messaging for other than secret messaging. As soon as it is announced that secret messages are being issued, the party will breakdown into fits of paranoia.
Does anyone else out there have some solution or techniques for handing messaging among player characters that would allow for secret messaging that they would like to share?
Carey Hilgartner
Dragons in Dungeons
What's your plan for the point in the game when the rest of the players look at this player and ask, "You've been lying to us this whole time?"
If and when she is discovered, they will turn on her. If she has transformed, she will be a significant challenge. If she is caught too early, then they will have much less of a challenge in defeating her. The central purpose of the story line will also change. Without the transformation, the crisis and its climax is diminished if not completely sideswiped.
I do not want to create a fixed story line adventure, but I do want to have an adventure with intrigue that builds to a conclusion with a final encounter. Hence, I want to create a message mechanism used for regular communication that can allow for secret messages.
At the same time, I would prefer the players talk openly as part of the role play. I do not want the campaign to descend into a flurry of texts.
Any suggestions or first thoughts?
Carey Hilgartner
Dragons in Dungeons
Personally I'd have them pass notes instead of using cell phones, just because it's so easy to get distracted by a phone. Coming up with a system that keeps not only the content of a message secret but also obscures the sending and receiving from people at the same table is probably not worth it (or possible?). Have a conversation with the players and remind them to guard against meta-gaming influencing in character play. They will probably have a lot of fun, developing suspicions and such as players but acting clueless in character.
On the other hand, if everyone is using electronic character sheets on phones,tablets, or laptops then it's much less obvious when a player send or receives a message, just put devices on silent.
Thanks for the advice. The passing notes idea would work well with "guard[s] against meta-gaming influencing". It would certainly prompt conversation and role playing.
I was planning on having players using the D&D Beyond Character tracking online. Each would have a tablet or laptop. Then, they could use Google Hangouts to exchange messages. However, the notes may be more social and more intriguing.
Carey Hilgartner
Dragons in Dungeons
Why do you need to send secret messages again?
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You could establish a general note passing culture where the DM is the postal service. You make a habit of passing many notes out all the time, with tidbits of history, something they spotted, or secret stuff from a characters backstory. The PCs might sometimes immediately share the content of a note, or might not. Also encourage the players to hand you notes for any reason; questions for later, something they want to do quietly, personal goals for their character, etc. Now you have a flow set up, let people put a from and to address in their notes, pass it to the DM, then after a random amount of time you pass it on to the intended recipient without saying what it is or who wrote it (but it has its written from info). Also let players know they can pass secret notes among themselves if they want to. Might be best to ensure the campaign has a generally shifty feel to it so all this feels natural. Fill it with spies and agents, codes and ciphers. Give all players secrets and personal objectives, but make many of them less harmful to reveal and really more of a character growth arc. It'll take some care to ensure things don't get too adversarial though - maybe some players personal objective is just to do whatever they can to help some other player with their personal quest while remaining unnoticed.
Have the players pass the notes to the DM, and then have the DM pass the notes to the players. And be ready to, as the DM, increase the intrigue slightly by passing blank notes, passing notes that are more or less meaningless (you see a small animal in the grass, it growls at you and runs away!) and/or notes not written by your "ally," but notes that could have been written by anyone. For instance, a note that says "she's playing you" or "i'm on your side" passed after one of your players gets into an argument with another player. Also, make sure that the NPCs in your character's lives are using the message system to it's fullest. The king's tax collector wishes to remind you that you are expected to pay a balance of 190gold in 3 weeks time. Scrum, your camp **** is demanding payment for his last 3 days of service. etc.
The more notes that get passed, the more natural and "part of the game" getting notes will feel.
Going a bit deeper into this question: I don’t know the game that you’re in, I don’t know you or your players. But if I were one of the other players in that game, while I’d enjoy it, I wouldn’t be able to escape the feeling that you’re playing favorites. After all, the whole reason for the secret messages is so that your *single* player can do what she wants, and it doesn’t really do much for the rest of the party, assuming they’re a regular group of friendly-enough adventurers.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Well, the reason for setting up the system is so that the secret player can pass secret notes, that's true... But anyone can use the note system, and if the DM is doing his job properly, they should ALL be using the note system, so No. I disagree with this...
But to add to this idea, you could add a couple more "note generators" to the party that target other players. Perhaps 1 player is a member of the lords alliance, with the authority to induct 1 other member of the party, and he has a contact that he needs to communicate with on a regular basis. Perhaps another player has an old friend that likes to write him funny notes about how he fell into an ancient tomb and was challenged by a lich to an 80s videogame for his life. Whatever.
The players will not feel like you are playing favorites.
@RegentCorreon - The DM postal service would work well. It would make the message system functional and natural, with secret messages being one possibility. Thanks.
Carey Hilgartner
Dragons in Dungeons
@Diplomacy - I like the random notes idea. Adding blank, meaningless and NPC messages would certainly make the message system part of the game. Thanks.
Carey Hilgartner
Dragons in Dungeons
@Yeenoghu900 - Messages would help communication. The secret messages are needed as one of the characters is secretly working to divide and conquer the group as part of the central story line.
Carey Hilgartner
Dragons in Dungeons
The note generators would certainly give substance to the message system. Favouritism may not be the intention, but it could be the perception of at least one or more players. However, the note generators and the other suggests would quickly eliminate this perception.
I agree with you @Diplomacy that the message system will work if the DM does his job properly.
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. They will certainly be helpful in making the adventure work and be social.
Carey Hilgartner
Dragons in Dungeons
The only comment I would make is that any note passing system can significantly slow down play at times. I've played in campaigns where the characters used notes to communicate with the DM and other characters because there were aspects or abilities of the characters that were secret or their alignments were such that they might not automatically share all that they learned with the party. However, note passing has to be used frequently enough that it does not arouse suspicion without being so frequent that the game grinds to a halt.
I've played in encounters where several notes are passed before the DM can describe anything to the other players ... there have been times when the DM steps out of the room with one or more characters to more efficiently deal with what they can see or actions they will take before the rest of the party gets input ... even occasions when some of the characters/players step out of the room to have a secret discussion.
Finally, if you are building a campaign around using this sort of mechanism to encourage secrecy then I think you should add a couple of things ..
- everyone should have secrets. If there is only one villain hiding anything then they will stand out when they start plotting. If everyone has some form of secret agenda,goal or objective then no one will be surprised at note passing or 1:1 chats with the DM or other players.
- physical notes are preferable to texts since the content is much less likely to be noticed by the other players. Texts on someone's phone can be very easy to see by accident.
- your villain is going to have to be pretty subtle or it may become obvious that they are a problem that will need to be dealt with
Finally, without giving it away, you should probably come up with some way to cushion the blow of the betrayal at the end. There are a lot of D&D players who intrinsically trust their party members (I've played and DMed enough campaigns with significant intra-party conflicts, in some cases just due to the players choosing characters with ultimately incompatible goals) ... but there are a lot of people who don't separate character from player very well. If the villain character does a good job then there are some players who will be angry and upset in real life since they will see this as a betrayal by the player rather than the character and it could come as quite a shock. Only you can judge the temperament of your players and how well they can separate character role-playing from what the player says ... but you may want to take a close look at that before embarking on an adventure where you, as the DM, have conspired with one of the players, to bring them into the story in the role of what would be the main opponent NPC.
@David42 Thanks for the suggestions.
I will certainly make sure that every player has secrets and private conversations. I will certainly heed your advice on defusing the betrayal feeling.
Carey Hilgartner
Dragons in Dungeons