My group has been playing for a year and a half, and things have been going pretty well, except for when the player in question started DMing an adventure. This DM is a pretty bad DM, but that's not relevant, somehow. This player has always been VERY combat focused. He interrupted a conversation with kobolds that was about to end peacefully by smiting the leader, starting a fight. He doesn't really engage in conversations except in a more combative way. He's the type of player who will kick down a door while we're asking permission to enter.
In his adventure, he's been continually asking about these little details, like what we make for breakfast, which we haven't really engaged with, because we're more used to the delve into the dungeon and grab the Mcguffin playstyle. Not kick in the door, but definitely adventure, not intrigue, leaning. We're always down for a conversation with an NPC, but inter-party roleplay is very uncommon for us.
In the most recent session, we learn that the player/DM has wanted a roleplay-focused game since he started playing, but he didn't know how to ask. He really wants the in-combat and downtime roleplaying, which our group simply doesn't engage with. He also doesn't know how to make an interesting character without a gimmick, like being mute.
I just really don't know what to do with this situation. Switching our entire playstyle isn't really going to happen.
Edit for extra info: The player, as a DM, prefers to just say "you follow X NPC" and skip straight to the point, rather than letting us roleplay. If he wants us to roleplay, he basically just shoves us into a scenario and tells us to. He also says that apparently one other player isn't roleplaying enough, despite the fact that this player always follows his character's moral compass.
He also expected us to roleplay, not fight, when we were given the choice of "leave (and fail our objective) or fight." He also never instigates roleplay during combat.
This is interesting. First, it seems like there a playstyle difference between him and the group. But it also seems like there’s a playstyle difference between what he says he wants to do and what he actually does. Which, I suppose, is fairly common in the world. Many of us think we know what we want, but it turns out we really want something different.
This kind of thing can only really be solved by a group conversation, session 0 style. And try not to be accusatory when you talk about it. Something like, you say you want this kind of detail in role play, and that’s cool, but when given the chance, you don’t seem to do it.
See if there’s something else there. Like maybe he doesn’t realize what he’s doing, or he’s not confident in how he role plays. It could be his door kicking comes from frustration that the role play isn’t going to happen how he wants, so he just decides to start a fight. But whichever way it goes, asking him and talking it through as a group is the only way to find out.
I agree with Xalthu, this isn't something to try to "fix" in-game, this requires outside of game communication and some personal reflection. However, the ability to engage with personal reflection is a rarity these days which is why many of these kinds of issues arise and persist. The first thing you need to establish is whether this person is willing to accept feedback and change/grow as a DM and as a player, if he isn't then you either put up with his antics or kick him out of the group. If he is willing to accept feedback, then the you should talk with him about character arcs, because character arcs is bedrock upon which RP is built. But it sounds like just in general your group doesn't RP much, so you'd all need to change if you want to have a more RP-focused game, or you need to just convince him to accept that none of you want an RP-focused game.
However, I would say your current perspective is flawed. Your group doesn't not-RP because of how this person acts when they are a player. Your group doesn't RP because none of you seem to be interested in RPing. Discussing what you made for breakfast would be quick and simple in any of my groups even though we don't actively RP our downtime very often, if your group can't manage that, then none of you are into the RP aspect. Social negotiation is not the same as RP. Someone could play a hot-head easily offended violent character who starts fights during social encounters and be RPing their character correctly, someone can also negotiate the perfect deal with NPCs and not be RPing their character correctly.
I imagine it would be fairly easy for us to start doing the little roleplaying things, but we all started playing without any examples of more Critical Role style games (I think), so we kind of treated it more like Skyrim (which two of us have played extensively). With that baseline being solidified over a year and a half, suddenly being asked questions like that was rather off-putting, and the lack of reason for why kind of led to us going "huh. Why are we doing this?" and not engaging with it. Our next adventure is Dragon Heist, which should be good RP practice.
As the group seems short on actual RP experience, also in the session 0 Xalthu mentioned, ask the DM to lead by example and help others expand more. Have the DM start roleplaying the NPCs more. That can set an example of what the players should do.
To be honest, it seems a bit hypocritical to expect the players to do all the role play and the DM doesn't follow.
As the group seems short on actual RP experience, also in the session 0 Xalthu mentioned, ask the DM to lead by example and help others expand more. Have the DM start roleplaying the NPCs more. That can set an example of what the players should do.
To be honest, it seems a bit hypocritical to expect the players to do all the role play and the DM doesn't follow.
That was briefly discussed. Interestingly, the DM knows that he should do that, yet he hasn't done it at all in 5 sessions. The closest he's ever come to roleplaying in combat is taunting enemies twice, as a player.
As the group seems short on actual RP experience, also in the session 0 Xalthu mentioned, ask the DM to lead by example and help others expand more. Have the DM start roleplaying the NPCs more. That can set an example of what the players should do.
To be honest, it seems a bit hypocritical to expect the players to do all the role play and the DM doesn't follow.
That was briefly discussed. Interestingly, the DM knows that he should do that, yet he hasn't done it at all in 5 sessions. The closest he's ever come to roleplaying in combat is taunting enemies twice, as a player.
Based on what you just said, this phrase comes to mind...not sure there is a cure to it.
I imagine it would be fairly easy for us to start doing the little roleplaying things, but we all started playing without any examples of more Critical Role style games (I think), so we kind of treated it more like Skyrim (which two of us have played extensively). With that baseline being solidified over a year and a half, suddenly being asked questions like that was rather off-putting, and the lack of reason for why kind of led to us going "huh. Why are we doing this?" and not engaging with it. Our next adventure is Dragon Heist, which should be good RP practice.
It’s important to know that critical role-style rp is just one way to play among many. It’s not the platonic ideal of a D&D game. It’s no more or less correct than any other style.
I think it’s great that as relatively new players you might consider other ways to play. You might find you like it more than you expect. It’s always worth it to try. And you might try it and decide it’s not for you. Just don’t go in thinking you had been doing D&D wrong the whole time and you want to correct it by playing more like critical role. If you’re having fun, you are doing it right, no matter what other groups might do.
I never heard of either Critical Role style games or Skyrim. What are they?
Critical Role is a live play by a group of very skilled and talented actors who all create very elaborate characters and role play very heavily because they are very skilled and talented actors. It’s done well for them, they’ve got 4 hugely popular campaigns on YouTube and two animated adaptations on Amazon, and their popularity means a lot of new players came to the game via that fandom and expect all games to be like that.
Skyrim is a computer RPG that’s been very popular for over a decade and although it has several very well written story arcs and lots of NPCs its main stock in trade is exploring dungeons and killing monsters so a lot of people trying D&D from that fandom tend to think TTRPGs work the same as CRPGs
I imagine it would be fairly easy for us to start doing the little roleplaying things, but we all started playing without any examples of more Critical Role style games (I think), so we kind of treated it more like Skyrim (which two of us have played extensively). With that baseline being solidified over a year and a half, suddenly being asked questions like that was rather off-putting, and the lack of reason for why kind of led to us going "huh. Why are we doing this?" and not engaging with it. Our next adventure is Dragon Heist, which should be good RP practice.
This is exactly my point. None of you seem interested in RPing. That's totally fine, you can absolutely play D&D as a hack-and-slash. But it is unfair of you to put all the onus to RP on the DM or on this one person. It is not the DMs job to RP for you, it's not the job of other players to make you RP. At the end of the day it is up to each player to choose to RP or not. It is totally fine not to RP. I'm not being judgemental on whether your table should or shouldn't RP. I'm being judgemental of you blaming one person for your entire table not RPing. It is not their fault you and the rest of the table don't RP, you guys either don't know how to RP, or IMO more likely don't want to RP - whether because you guys aren't close enough to feel comfortable doing it around each other, or because you find it interferes with strategy/optimization, or because you just find it boring.
To be honest, it sounds like your DM is probably asking other forums how to encourage their players to RP because little exercises like asking players what their character's favourite food is, or what their favourite subject in school was, or one piece of advice they were told and hold dear, or one mistake they made and now regret, are very common suggestions for DMs to help teach their players how to RP. But they are hitting a wall of the players refusing to really participate in those, so they are taking from that that the players don't want to RP so are skipping over RP-centric scenes because nobody enjoys sitting around the table in awkward silence.
I think that the best thing to do would be to just straight up tell him that if he wants that kind of game then he also needs to run that kind of game. It's okay to tell someone that they are having unreasonable expectations for your group, and then you can find a way to make it enjoyable for the whole group. Communication is key.
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He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones. Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
"You see a gigantic, monstrous praying mantis burst from out of the ground. It sprays a stream of acid from it's mouth at one soldier, dissolving him instantly, then it turns and chomps another soldier in half with it's- "
If you have been playing together for 1.5 yrs then I assume that you all aren't strangers. It wouldn't hurt to sit down together and talk. Have a social interaction amongst yourselves so as there is no misunderstandings. No harm no foul in effective drama-free conversation.
If this is their first time dm'ing, it can take people a while to find their footing, get decent at dming, and find players who are a good fit for that style.
But also, if you all know each other, a chill conversation about what you all are looking for as players and dms might sort some things out.
It kinda sounds like mostly theyre just trying to wrap their head around what being a dm means for them.
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My group has been playing for a year and a half, and things have been going pretty well, except for when the player in question started DMing an adventure. This DM is a pretty bad DM, but that's not relevant, somehow. This player has always been VERY combat focused. He interrupted a conversation with kobolds that was about to end peacefully by smiting the leader, starting a fight. He doesn't really engage in conversations except in a more combative way. He's the type of player who will kick down a door while we're asking permission to enter.
In his adventure, he's been continually asking about these little details, like what we make for breakfast, which we haven't really engaged with, because we're more used to the delve into the dungeon and grab the Mcguffin playstyle. Not kick in the door, but definitely adventure, not intrigue, leaning. We're always down for a conversation with an NPC, but inter-party roleplay is very uncommon for us.
In the most recent session, we learn that the player/DM has wanted a roleplay-focused game since he started playing, but he didn't know how to ask. He really wants the in-combat and downtime roleplaying, which our group simply doesn't engage with. He also doesn't know how to make an interesting character without a gimmick, like being mute.
I just really don't know what to do with this situation. Switching our entire playstyle isn't really going to happen.
Edit for extra info: The player, as a DM, prefers to just say "you follow X NPC" and skip straight to the point, rather than letting us roleplay. If he wants us to roleplay, he basically just shoves us into a scenario and tells us to. He also says that apparently one other player isn't roleplaying enough, despite the fact that this player always follows his character's moral compass.
He also expected us to roleplay, not fight, when we were given the choice of "leave (and fail our objective) or fight." He also never instigates roleplay during combat.
This is interesting. First, it seems like there a playstyle difference between him and the group.
But it also seems like there’s a playstyle difference between what he says he wants to do and what he actually does. Which, I suppose, is fairly common in the world. Many of us think we know what we want, but it turns out we really want something different.
This kind of thing can only really be solved by a group conversation, session 0 style. And try not to be accusatory when you talk about it. Something like, you say you want this kind of detail in role play, and that’s cool, but when given the chance, you don’t seem to do it.
See if there’s something else there. Like maybe he doesn’t realize what he’s doing, or he’s not confident in how he role plays. It could be his door kicking comes from frustration that the role play isn’t going to happen how he wants, so he just decides to start a fight.
But whichever way it goes, asking him and talking it through as a group is the only way to find out.
I agree with Xalthu, this isn't something to try to "fix" in-game, this requires outside of game communication and some personal reflection. However, the ability to engage with personal reflection is a rarity these days which is why many of these kinds of issues arise and persist. The first thing you need to establish is whether this person is willing to accept feedback and change/grow as a DM and as a player, if he isn't then you either put up with his antics or kick him out of the group. If he is willing to accept feedback, then the you should talk with him about character arcs, because character arcs is bedrock upon which RP is built. But it sounds like just in general your group doesn't RP much, so you'd all need to change if you want to have a more RP-focused game, or you need to just convince him to accept that none of you want an RP-focused game.
However, I would say your current perspective is flawed. Your group doesn't not-RP because of how this person acts when they are a player. Your group doesn't RP because none of you seem to be interested in RPing. Discussing what you made for breakfast would be quick and simple in any of my groups even though we don't actively RP our downtime very often, if your group can't manage that, then none of you are into the RP aspect. Social negotiation is not the same as RP. Someone could play a hot-head easily offended violent character who starts fights during social encounters and be RPing their character correctly, someone can also negotiate the perfect deal with NPCs and not be RPing their character correctly.
I imagine it would be fairly easy for us to start doing the little roleplaying things, but we all started playing without any examples of more Critical Role style games (I think), so we kind of treated it more like Skyrim (which two of us have played extensively). With that baseline being solidified over a year and a half, suddenly being asked questions like that was rather off-putting, and the lack of reason for why kind of led to us going "huh. Why are we doing this?" and not engaging with it. Our next adventure is Dragon Heist, which should be good RP practice.
As the group seems short on actual RP experience, also in the session 0 Xalthu mentioned, ask the DM to lead by example and help others expand more. Have the DM start roleplaying the NPCs more. That can set an example of what the players should do.
To be honest, it seems a bit hypocritical to expect the players to do all the role play and the DM doesn't follow.
That was briefly discussed. Interestingly, the DM knows that he should do that, yet he hasn't done it at all in 5 sessions. The closest he's ever come to roleplaying in combat is taunting enemies twice, as a player.
Based on what you just said, this phrase comes to mind...not sure there is a cure to it.
Do as I say, not as I do.
It’s important to know that critical role-style rp is just one way to play among many. It’s not the platonic ideal of a D&D game. It’s no more or less correct than any other style.
I think it’s great that as relatively new players you might consider other ways to play. You might find you like it more than you expect. It’s always worth it to try. And you might try it and decide it’s not for you.
Just don’t go in thinking you had been doing D&D wrong the whole time and you want to correct it by playing more like critical role. If you’re having fun, you are doing it right, no matter what other groups might do.
I never heard of either Critical Role style games or Skyrim. What are they?
Critical Role is a live play by a group of very skilled and talented actors who all create very elaborate characters and role play very heavily because they are very skilled and talented actors. It’s done well for them, they’ve got 4 hugely popular campaigns on YouTube and two animated adaptations on Amazon, and their popularity means a lot of new players came to the game via that fandom and expect all games to be like that.
Skyrim is a computer RPG that’s been very popular for over a decade and although it has several very well written story arcs and lots of NPCs its main stock in trade is exploring dungeons and killing monsters so a lot of people trying D&D from that fandom tend to think TTRPGs work the same as CRPGs
This is exactly my point. None of you seem interested in RPing. That's totally fine, you can absolutely play D&D as a hack-and-slash. But it is unfair of you to put all the onus to RP on the DM or on this one person. It is not the DMs job to RP for you, it's not the job of other players to make you RP. At the end of the day it is up to each player to choose to RP or not. It is totally fine not to RP. I'm not being judgemental on whether your table should or shouldn't RP. I'm being judgemental of you blaming one person for your entire table not RPing. It is not their fault you and the rest of the table don't RP, you guys either don't know how to RP, or IMO more likely don't want to RP - whether because you guys aren't close enough to feel comfortable doing it around each other, or because you find it interferes with strategy/optimization, or because you just find it boring.
To be honest, it sounds like your DM is probably asking other forums how to encourage their players to RP because little exercises like asking players what their character's favourite food is, or what their favourite subject in school was, or one piece of advice they were told and hold dear, or one mistake they made and now regret, are very common suggestions for DMs to help teach their players how to RP. But they are hitting a wall of the players refusing to really participate in those, so they are taking from that that the players don't want to RP so are skipping over RP-centric scenes because nobody enjoys sitting around the table in awkward silence.
I think that the best thing to do would be to just straight up tell him that if he wants that kind of game then he also needs to run that kind of game. It's okay to tell someone that they are having unreasonable expectations for your group, and then you can find a way to make it enjoyable for the whole group. Communication is key.
He doesn't have much besides the skin on his bones. Me: I'll take the skin on his bones, then.
"You see a gigantic, monstrous praying mantis burst from out of the ground. It sprays a stream of acid from it's mouth at one soldier, dissolving him instantly, then it turns and chomps another soldier in half with it's- "
"When are we gonna take a snack break?"
If you have been playing together for 1.5 yrs then I assume that you all aren't strangers. It wouldn't hurt to sit down together and talk. Have a social interaction amongst yourselves so as there is no misunderstandings. No harm no foul in effective drama-free conversation.
If this is their first time dm'ing, it can take people a while to find their footing, get decent at dming, and find players who are a good fit for that style.
But also, if you all know each other, a chill conversation about what you all are looking for as players and dms might sort some things out.
It kinda sounds like mostly theyre just trying to wrap their head around what being a dm means for them.