So I've got a couple players in my campaign that are pursuing the idea of starting relationships with NPCs. One has built it into their backstory, and that one I was able to tie into a story arc. The player was shocked at the turn of events but it did prove to galvanize her into action and seems to have been received well. The other player, however, decided she wants to entertain the idea of getting along with a merchant from one of the major cities. This has given me a bit of trouble for a few reasons:
1) I'm not really good at playing out the romance side of stories, it's a fault of mine as a story teller.
2) I feel that putting relationships like this in a game may take away from the adventure and tie the players down to one location.
3) If the player decides to go further into the relationship role, I'm not sure how to make it work with building a family and being an adventurer.
If any of you have delved into this side of story telling, or have been a player who took this road, please help me figure out ways I can handle this.
1) Player-character to player-character romances are one thing ( and a different potential problem ) - we've seen such on Critical Role - but player/NPC? I can't help you on this one. I wouldn't be comfortable with this one, myself.
2) It may tie the characters to one location - but there are possibilities for entirely different flavors of campaigns. This used to be the norm in "old school" D&D where high level characters would establish, build a keep, get involved in local politics etc. Now the adventuring is about threats to their home territory, dealing with politics and alliances, etc. Adventure need not stop, it just has to change focus.
3) This is really a character issue to work out. How do their characters try and resolve the conflicts between personal and professional lives?
One possibility is to split the Player focus - one set of characters are tied down to the home front, and dealing with local issues, politics, intrigue, etc. - but they're likely to need a group of younger, more mobile ( and more rash ) individuals they can rely on for missions; enter the Players' second set of characters.
It's a real shift in game style and focus, however - I think this is something that you need to work out with your players: is this a path they really want to explore, and if so, are they comfortable become established and respectable?
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For character-NPC relations, just be up front about your... inexperience? Bad word maybe. It can be difficult to run. Talk to the player, and come to an agreement about non role play depictions of the relationship (e.g. "you spend the night with your betrothed", or "your beau approaches you, she's with child", and opposite situations for different sexes).
I've already told her that I'm not a big fan of playing out relationships and she, being quite gracious, pouted and chided me a little, but in the end didn't push the issue.
I, trying to be open to new ideas and adventures, am reaching out to this community to see if I may find a compromise that will allow the two lady players their fun and not be too difficult for me.
I've already done the simple responses to night activities and the courting that had happened so far. Simple narratives were the easiest way for me to address it up to this point.
player npc romance, instant opportunity to have the nice npc actually be some big bad evil cult leader, be in thrall to some demon who wants to rule the city and suchlike.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
I already played that card, though not in the same context. Save a mother, bring her home, she goes all Scary Movie on the family, save the family from shadow demon that possessed mom, good times. I'm a big fan of those types of plot twists, but if that's all you give your players, they'll never trust a single NPC you put in front of them. I'd like to try to give them something this time, just not sure how to go about it.
Nothing against you Captain Carrot - you're 100% right, that is a possible story wrinkle - but I wonder sometimes if DMs do that too much :D
I think some players would be shocked to find out "what, you mean that storekeepers isn't secretly leader of the assassins' guild, and is planning to betray us? She's just a shopkeeper?!"
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
the problem with not making players interactions with npcs more complicated is you're frequently in a bit of a bind on how to make them more interesting. there's nothing wrong with a recurring innkeeper who's a good laugh or a grumpy old scrote. but your good laugh or grumpy old scrote suddenly becomes a source of adventure if they're being lent on for protection money and your party decide to help them out in some way
anyway back to the primary topic, if it's a pc that's going to be leaving their spouse behind, you have strain on the relationship due to worry. you have possibility of little finger /cat stark complication.
Theyre going to need a home base, what's that going to be how is it going to be financed, is the pc ever going to make any enemies in the world, in which case their partner is the first and greatest weakness they are going to be a target in that situation. how will your pc keep them safe. will the spouse be expecting the pc to settle down or will they take up a life of travelling to start with, you don't have to roll play out the intricacies of relationships. but you have to keep those things i've mentioned in mind. particularly the vulnerability.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
It can be difficult to build a NPC and player relationship due to the way that stories tend to cause players to travel often. You can deny this by having the merchant have a family already or have the players need to travel. Another option could be to have the merchant come with the adventurers as a helper and have the player try to teach the merchant how to fight and allow him to give the players an advantage when dealing with merchants in the future. You could allow the relationship to continue and possibly grow but then have a tragic event occur that kills the merchant which can cause an interesting character development or story line. Any relationship between an NPC and a player can be difficult to cultivate or grow if the NPC is not a traveling member with the group and is purely up to you the DM to determine if your comfortable with trying it or if you dont want it to happen. I hope that this helps and wish you luck with your campaign.
A twist on the evil husband / wife arc is for them to discover the person who owns their heart was rotten to the core but had a moment that turned them away from destruction long before they met each other. Difficult conversation ensue, do they support them as they have turned over a new leaf or report them for their crimes? what is the redemption worth as a currency.
This can be very useful later on if the party get themselves almost TPK or otherwise end the game on themselves as the spouse can upon hearing about this go on a bit of a spree and revengacide everything in their path to rescue / restore them from the pits of hell and get your game back on track - This leads to more conversation and thought - you were saved by mass murder occult pacts and mass sacrifice including innocents and now hubby / wifey has to pay off the IOU he called in to get you back so he has to do a bit of 'work' How do you handle that? A critical roleplay crux where morality has been peppersprayed with shotgunned excrement.
In regards to romance though sometimes one liners can be enough - When returning to their home after a weeks journey to put down a grell infestation they are met with 'Hi Hon how was your week?' and after they answer add 'And did you remember to pick up the Cheese / milk' etc. The cut to the next slice of down time. Juxtaposing the weird professional choice with forget chores they promised to do whilst they were out should get a smile from someone at the table.
I can assume that this is a large group game where in the players in question are asking for increased social aspects of the game. In a large group this can be just as problematic as the guy that wants to be the moody loner. It hogs spotlight. Not saying that you can’t do it though. I prefer blue booking for such times. You could even have the npc run by another player and you wouldn’t have to be uncomfortable.
Well, I am DMing a big group, 5 people, nothing too dramatic. I haven't had a problem with people hogging the spotlight, fortunately. on the contrary, I have one player who feels he doesn't get enough, but has a habit of putting others ahead of himself. The rest of the group is pretty good at sharing the spot light, playing to their strong suits, and trying to help each other out. The player in question is just a romantic, nothing moody or brooding about it, though it would fit the story arc of her character in it's current form.
Bluebooking time for it might work. I've been considering if there's a way I might tie this in to something further down the road when they are going to need to establish a command center type situation.
It was always an option that people would run once they'd passed lvl 10 and were n the build your own stronghold phase back in the ad&d days, settle down get married and be semi retired
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
A lot of this isn't your problem to solve. As the DM, you present the world. Your players are the ones who need to reason out why their characters do what they do, whether that be staying an adventurer or becoming a stay at home mom.
To address point 1...just do what you're comfortable with. My PCs have shamelessly flirted, gone to brothels, and had one night stands left and right. At these points I usually break down laughing with a "I can't do this guys. I can't even flirt in real life, spare me" and we all chuckle at the joke and I wrap up "business" with a quick narration (and a constitution saving throw when necessary). I also tend to use a bunch of corny lines ("This evening has been magical...nearly as enchanting as you *wink*"). It keeps the romance light and away from being awkward.
On point 2, I think that's up to the players and which NPCs they choose to go after. Marrying a shopkeeping will play differently than a bounty hunter, for example. I personally would be lenient on this point and, if the player has shown enough interest and attention to the NPC in question, I'd say the NPC is willing to wait for that PC to return. Sort of like a sailor going off to sea for months at a time. The PC is basically just going off to work.
For point 3, this again is up to the players. I have an elf character with a bunch of kids and grandkids and she still goes off adventuring. She's a cleric and her family understands that her duty to their god requires her to leave. She also sees the adventure as necessary to protect her family (aka, stopping the bad guy before her gets to X village). If your players want a family AND to go adventuring still, I'd leave it up to them to come up with their own motivations. As for pregnancy in female PCs, I never have my players roll for that and would just make it something that could happen during downtime.
1. I think if you tell your players you arent entirely comfortable with this, they would be cool with that. Either that, or you can avoid specific descriptions and just give them a sort of 'fade to black' whenever they want to do some romance things with an NPC. This also answers #2 to an extent
2. What if the NPC's they are attached to decide to adventure with them? Either that or you can use it as a knife against the players and potentially put them into a hostage rescue situation or something.
3. Again with #1, I think you could just say 'hey, at some point I might just say its a fade to black sort of thing because I dont feel comfortable / able to narrate this'.
Most players are willing to respect decisions like these if you explain why, or simply say you arent comfortable doing something at the table.
Sure she's not trying to engage in flirtatious/romantic chatter with NPCs as a way of engaging with you?
Just throwing that out there. ; )
You had my wife and I in stitches over this one. It's her character, so this was the source of many jokes in our last session: "You guys mind if we role play a little at the table" and other such double entendres.
It was always an option that people would run once they'd passed lvl 10 and were n the build your own stronghold phase back in the ad&d days, settle down get married and be semi retired
I'm pondering this direction since I plan on giving them something that could lean into this idea, currently I'm just mulling over options.
You two have a similar approach, make it light RP, put the weight of the RP in the player's hands, or let it fade away with an explanation.
I guess I need to clarify a little, I want to try to entertain her a bit, give her something as she's a heavy RP player, as are the rest of the ladies at my table. I am looking to find ways to give her the relationship aspect that doesn't require me to turn it into an awkward flirting session (not everyone wants to listen to two people do that in a game). I'm also looking at ways to approach the problem of family growth and how to maintain a long distance relationship without VoIP, Cellphones or other such devices so readily accessible.
You all have given me some food for thought, and I'd love to hear more ideas if they come my way.
I wouldn't be comfortable playing it out, but downtime relationships that happen off screen would be fine.
I think this is how I'd approach it. Off screen ( maybe a few skill roles? ), etc.
Of course ... now that I know that the PC in question is DMThac0's wife, I'm not sure what the problem is ;) Although, I have to admit I might not be totally comfortable with my wife doing this in my game ( and yes, she's a Shadow Monk in my current campaign ).
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Good grief, I swear you're my doppelganger Vedexent, my wife is a shadow monk/Great Old One 'lock lol.
It's really not so much who is doing it, as to the how to handle it. I have 5 players, they're all close friends and my wife, we're all immature adults as one would expect with that type of group. The innuendos, in jokes, tangents and what not are abundant, however they take their characters and the game seriously. The one player is a close friend, her game relationship was defined at the beginning of the game so it came as no surprise to me. I had figured out how to play that part out as it was the perfect setup for her personal story arc. The purpose of this relationship that my wife has been pursuing is still a bit of a mystery to me, it could be as innocuous as trying to connect with me in a different fashion, it could be something for her character, she's not even sure yet either. The trick is to make it work in the game without taking away from the rest of the party and still give her the chance to play it out to some form of end.
So I've got a couple players in my campaign that are pursuing the idea of starting relationships with NPCs. One has built it into their backstory, and that one I was able to tie into a story arc. The player was shocked at the turn of events but it did prove to galvanize her into action and seems to have been received well. The other player, however, decided she wants to entertain the idea of getting along with a merchant from one of the major cities. This has given me a bit of trouble for a few reasons:
1) I'm not really good at playing out the romance side of stories, it's a fault of mine as a story teller.
2) I feel that putting relationships like this in a game may take away from the adventure and tie the players down to one location.
3) If the player decides to go further into the relationship role, I'm not sure how to make it work with building a family and being an adventurer.
If any of you have delved into this side of story telling, or have been a player who took this road, please help me figure out ways I can handle this.
My sympathies.
1) Player-character to player-character romances are one thing ( and a different potential problem ) - we've seen such on Critical Role - but player/NPC? I can't help you on this one. I wouldn't be comfortable with this one, myself.
2) It may tie the characters to one location - but there are possibilities for entirely different flavors of campaigns. This used to be the norm in "old school" D&D where high level characters would establish, build a keep, get involved in local politics etc. Now the adventuring is about threats to their home territory, dealing with politics and alliances, etc. Adventure need not stop, it just has to change focus.
3) This is really a character issue to work out. How do their characters try and resolve the conflicts between personal and professional lives?
One possibility is to split the Player focus - one set of characters are tied down to the home front, and dealing with local issues, politics, intrigue, etc. - but they're likely to need a group of younger, more mobile ( and more rash ) individuals they can rely on for missions; enter the Players' second set of characters.
It's a real shift in game style and focus, however - I think this is something that you need to work out with your players: is this a path they really want to explore, and if so, are they comfortable become established and respectable?
Best of luck! :)
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
For character-NPC relations, just be up front about your... inexperience? Bad word maybe. It can be difficult to run. Talk to the player, and come to an agreement about non role play depictions of the relationship (e.g. "you spend the night with your betrothed", or "your beau approaches you, she's with child", and opposite situations for different sexes).
I've already told her that I'm not a big fan of playing out relationships and she, being quite gracious, pouted and chided me a little, but in the end didn't push the issue.
I, trying to be open to new ideas and adventures, am reaching out to this community to see if I may find a compromise that will allow the two lady players their fun and not be too difficult for me.
I've already done the simple responses to night activities and the courting that had happened so far. Simple narratives were the easiest way for me to address it up to this point.
player npc romance, instant opportunity to have the nice npc actually be some big bad evil cult leader, be in thrall to some demon who wants to rule the city and suchlike.
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
I already played that card, though not in the same context. Save a mother, bring her home, she goes all Scary Movie on the family, save the family from shadow demon that possessed mom, good times. I'm a big fan of those types of plot twists, but if that's all you give your players, they'll never trust a single NPC you put in front of them. I'd like to try to give them something this time, just not sure how to go about it.
Nothing against you Captain Carrot - you're 100% right, that is a possible story wrinkle - but I wonder sometimes if DMs do that too much :D
I think some players would be shocked to find out "what, you mean that storekeepers isn't secretly leader of the assassins' guild, and is planning to betray us? She's just a shopkeeper?!"
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
the problem with not making players interactions with npcs more complicated is you're frequently in a bit of a bind on how to make them more interesting.
there's nothing wrong with a recurring innkeeper who's a good laugh or a grumpy old scrote.
but your good laugh or grumpy old scrote suddenly becomes a source of adventure if they're being lent on for protection money and your party decide to help them out in some way
anyway back to the primary topic, if it's a pc that's going to be leaving their spouse behind,
you have strain on the relationship due to worry. you have possibility of little finger /cat stark complication.
Theyre going to need a home base, what's that going to be how is it going to be financed, is the pc ever going to make any enemies in the world, in which case their partner is the first and greatest weakness they are going to be a target in that situation. how will your pc keep them safe. will the spouse be expecting the pc to settle down or will they take up a life of travelling to start with, you don't have to roll play out the intricacies of relationships. but you have to keep those things i've mentioned in mind. particularly the vulnerability.
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
It can be difficult to build a NPC and player relationship due to the way that stories tend to cause players to travel often. You can deny this by having the merchant have a family already or have the players need to travel. Another option could be to have the merchant come with the adventurers as a helper and have the player try to teach the merchant how to fight and allow him to give the players an advantage when dealing with merchants in the future. You could allow the relationship to continue and possibly grow but then have a tragic event occur that kills the merchant which can cause an interesting character development or story line. Any relationship between an NPC and a player can be difficult to cultivate or grow if the NPC is not a traveling member with the group and is purely up to you the DM to determine if your comfortable with trying it or if you dont want it to happen. I hope that this helps and wish you luck with your campaign.
A twist on the evil husband / wife arc is for them to discover the person who owns their heart was rotten to the core but had a moment that turned them away from destruction long before they met each other. Difficult conversation ensue, do they support them as they have turned over a new leaf or report them for their crimes? what is the redemption worth as a currency.
This can be very useful later on if the party get themselves almost TPK or otherwise end the game on themselves as the spouse can upon hearing about this go on a bit of a spree and revengacide everything in their path to rescue / restore them from the pits of hell and get your game back on track - This leads to more conversation and thought - you were saved by mass murder occult pacts and mass sacrifice including innocents and now hubby / wifey has to pay off the IOU he called in to get you back so he has to do a bit of 'work' How do you handle that? A critical roleplay crux where morality has been peppersprayed with shotgunned excrement.
In regards to romance though sometimes one liners can be enough - When returning to their home after a weeks journey to put down a grell infestation they are met with 'Hi Hon how was your week?' and after they answer add 'And did you remember to pick up the Cheese / milk' etc. The cut to the next slice of down time. Juxtaposing the weird professional choice with forget chores they promised to do whilst they were out should get a smile from someone at the table.
I can assume that this is a large group game where in the players in question are asking for increased social aspects of the game. In a large group this can be just as problematic as the guy that wants to be the moody loner. It hogs spotlight. Not saying that you can’t do it though. I prefer blue booking for such times. You could even have the npc run by another player and you wouldn’t have to be uncomfortable.
Well, I am DMing a big group, 5 people, nothing too dramatic. I haven't had a problem with people hogging the spotlight, fortunately. on the contrary, I have one player who feels he doesn't get enough, but has a habit of putting others ahead of himself. The rest of the group is pretty good at sharing the spot light, playing to their strong suits, and trying to help each other out. The player in question is just a romantic, nothing moody or brooding about it, though it would fit the story arc of her character in it's current form.
Bluebooking time for it might work. I've been considering if there's a way I might tie this in to something further down the road when they are going to need to establish a command center type situation.
It was always an option that people would run once they'd passed lvl 10 and were n the build your own stronghold phase back in the ad&d days, settle down get married and be semi retired
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
A lot of this isn't your problem to solve. As the DM, you present the world. Your players are the ones who need to reason out why their characters do what they do, whether that be staying an adventurer or becoming a stay at home mom.
To address point 1...just do what you're comfortable with. My PCs have shamelessly flirted, gone to brothels, and had one night stands left and right. At these points I usually break down laughing with a "I can't do this guys. I can't even flirt in real life, spare me" and we all chuckle at the joke and I wrap up "business" with a quick narration (and a constitution saving throw when necessary). I also tend to use a bunch of corny lines ("This evening has been magical...nearly as enchanting as you *wink*"). It keeps the romance light and away from being awkward.
On point 2, I think that's up to the players and which NPCs they choose to go after. Marrying a shopkeeping will play differently than a bounty hunter, for example. I personally would be lenient on this point and, if the player has shown enough interest and attention to the NPC in question, I'd say the NPC is willing to wait for that PC to return. Sort of like a sailor going off to sea for months at a time. The PC is basically just going off to work.
For point 3, this again is up to the players. I have an elf character with a bunch of kids and grandkids and she still goes off adventuring. She's a cleric and her family understands that her duty to their god requires her to leave. She also sees the adventure as necessary to protect her family (aka, stopping the bad guy before her gets to X village). If your players want a family AND to go adventuring still, I'd leave it up to them to come up with their own motivations. As for pregnancy in female PCs, I never have my players roll for that and would just make it something that could happen during downtime.
Sure she's not trying to engage in flirtatious/romantic chatter with NPCs as a way of engaging with you?
Just throwing that out there. ; )
1. I think if you tell your players you arent entirely comfortable with this, they would be cool with that. Either that, or you can avoid specific descriptions and just give them a sort of 'fade to black' whenever they want to do some romance things with an NPC. This also answers #2 to an extent
2. What if the NPC's they are attached to decide to adventure with them? Either that or you can use it as a knife against the players and potentially put them into a hostage rescue situation or something.
3. Again with #1, I think you could just say 'hey, at some point I might just say its a fade to black sort of thing because I dont feel comfortable / able to narrate this'.
Most players are willing to respect decisions like these if you explain why, or simply say you arent comfortable doing something at the table.
You had my wife and I in stitches over this one. It's her character, so this was the source of many jokes in our last session: "You guys mind if we role play a little at the table" and other such double entendres.
I'm pondering this direction since I plan on giving them something that could lean into this idea, currently I'm just mulling over options.
You two have a similar approach, make it light RP, put the weight of the RP in the player's hands, or let it fade away with an explanation.
I guess I need to clarify a little, I want to try to entertain her a bit, give her something as she's a heavy RP player, as are the rest of the ladies at my table. I am looking to find ways to give her the relationship aspect that doesn't require me to turn it into an awkward flirting session (not everyone wants to listen to two people do that in a game). I'm also looking at ways to approach the problem of family growth and how to maintain a long distance relationship without VoIP, Cellphones or other such devices so readily accessible.
You all have given me some food for thought, and I'd love to hear more ideas if they come my way.
I wouldn't be comfortable playing it out, but downtime relationships that happen off screen would be fine.
Blood Frenzy. The quipper has advantage on melee attack rolls against any creature that doesn't have all its hit points.
Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +5 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1 piercing damage.
I think this is how I'd approach it. Off screen ( maybe a few skill roles? ), etc.
Of course ... now that I know that the PC in question is DMThac0's wife, I'm not sure what the problem is ;) Although, I have to admit I might not be totally comfortable with my wife doing this in my game ( and yes, she's a Shadow Monk in my current campaign ).
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Good grief, I swear you're my doppelganger Vedexent, my wife is a shadow monk/Great Old One 'lock lol.
It's really not so much who is doing it, as to the how to handle it. I have 5 players, they're all close friends and my wife, we're all immature adults as one would expect with that type of group. The innuendos, in jokes, tangents and what not are abundant, however they take their characters and the game seriously. The one player is a close friend, her game relationship was defined at the beginning of the game so it came as no surprise to me. I had figured out how to play that part out as it was the perfect setup for her personal story arc. The purpose of this relationship that my wife has been pursuing is still a bit of a mystery to me, it could be as innocuous as trying to connect with me in a different fashion, it could be something for her character, she's not even sure yet either. The trick is to make it work in the game without taking away from the rest of the party and still give her the chance to play it out to some form of end.