Hoping for a bit of advice here, I'm a new DM and only been playing for about a year. My game is in its 23nd Session (once a week for 3-4 Hours) playing ToA and the players are enjoying it and everything is going well, But there is one player, Whos garage we play it as he has converted the whole garage to wargaming and its a nice venue which already puts me in a bit of a submissive position as it's his house, but the issue I have with this player is that everything time I describe something he is always arguing with me on it stopping the game and frankly just getting to the point that is annoying as hell.
to give an example.
There are swords on anvils (Trials of Xibalba Module) Player "I send mage hand over to the sword and try to move it" Me " So you all see the hand float over to one of the swords, it reaches down and grabs the hilt to be.... Player " No it doesn't Grab it, it pushes it" Me: "Ok, it attempts to push it and nothing happens"
Its always on things that don't change a damn thing, like he constantly thinks I'm going to throw him under the bus for the smallest thing.
Again it's a small issue but have this any time I try to describe his actions and it really adds up to something that is constantly taking the fun out of the game for me.
Player "I send Mage Hand over to the sword and try to move it" You: "Describe to me exactly how you're trying to move it". Player: "I used the Mage Hand to try and push it off the anvil" You: "OK, it attempts to push it and nothing happens".
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It seems to me that the player doesn't trust you, and that's a difficult bridge to build. It takes open communication. Based on what you've said, I feel like you understand this, but being bothered by a player's desire to be clear about what their character intends to do shouldn't be a problem. I think it's a fundamental part of the game -- player describes action, DM narrates result. I agree it's rude to interrupt someone while they're speaking, but it's not wrong to clarify what your character meant to do.
So, you don't like being interrupted? Say, "Hey, I don't like being interrupted while I'm running the game. If I misheard something, let me know after the session, but if you interrupt me, I'm probably going to ignore you to keep the game going."
Definitely take Vedexent's advice here and ask more questions -- don't just assume something and take control the character's actions. If it helps, maybe consider that it is not always your job to narrate the player's actions, just the result of the action.
Player "I send Mage Hand over to the sword and try to move it." DM: "Sure. The sword moves, but nothing in the room changes." Player: "I meant to try and push it off the anvil." DM: "OK, so the sword falls off the anvil and clatters to the floor. Nothing in the room changes."
LightSpeed is right: it's going to take communication to resolve whatever is going on. Might pursue a one on one where you invite him to share his side of what's happening. He may he not even be aware that there's a problem.
I find in those situations one good method is to approach the person saying you want to do better as a DM by understanding what issues they might be having. "Hey, Friend. I noticed sometimes you do this. Am I doing something that causes that? Is there something I can do different that will make it more fun for you?"
If that doesn't work, then you've at least given diplomacy a fair try. No one will fault you for asserting table manners afterwards.
So, you don't like being interrupted? Say, "Hey, I don't like being interrupted while I'm running the game. If I misheard something, let me know after the session, but if you interrupt me, I'm probably going to ignore you to keep the game going."
If it's a big problem, this might have to be what you resort to. But you want the players to be able to correct you when you get something wrong. If I say "I'm moving to the cliff edge", and the DM says "Okay, you jump off the cliff, and..." :)
Your advice is good, I just wanted to point this part out as being a last resort. You don't want the guy to never correct/add anything. You just want him to stop doing it all the time, right?
Player "I send Mage Hand over to the sword and try to move it" You: "Describe to me exactly how you're trying to move it". Player: "I used the Mage Hand to try and push it off the anvil" You: "OK, it attempts to push it and nothing happens".
I'm quoting this because it is the darn good advice worth taking.
I don't see this to be the player arguing with you - he's not communicating fully what he intends to do, and you aren't asking him to. He's assuming you understand him and can be general, you assume you understand him and the conflict is the cause of two assumptions. Always ask how if they aren't specific. If they are specific "I use mage hand to push one of the swords off." hold them to it. "No I meant grab it and..." should be interrupted with "I understand that now, because you were more specific. Going forward please be more specific up front; if you aren't I won't stop the game and wind the clock back to correct your action. Thank you."
Player "I send Mage Hand over to the sword and try to move it" You: "Describe to me exactly how you're trying to move it". Player: "I used the Mage Hand to try and push it off the anvil" You: "OK, it attempts to push it and nothing happens".
I agree with this. Try to get the players more involved with what they are doing or wanting to do within reason. I make it clear in all of my games that the players need to know their characters or be able to look something up if needed. Also if you are giving a description of what a player is doing and they jump in as say that they are doing it another way. I'd be fine with it as long as it seems reasonable. Make a habit of asking the players how and/or exactly they are doing it. Even ask them if they are sure thats how they want to act if needed then set it in stone. If you need to have them read an ability or whatnot to you to justify their action then do so. Just try not to slow the game progress with players looking things up every time they get to their turn.
Thanks so much guys, this has been amazing advice and very happy I came here, As I said I am a pretty fresh DM.
I really like the bit on Push the Responsibility back onto him, What I can see this been is exactly as it was described in the post, it would also stand out that for other players who are way more relaxed they'll roll with it, but every time it comes to his character is slower but exactly what he wants, hopefully over time as he sees me not throwing the other players into the deep end he'll relax a little and trust me as a DM.
Its just a hard one for me as he is the person he got me into D&D and has been playing it for years so i do respect him, thats what made this harder to figure out without looking like I want him to leave or upsetting the friendship.
I found a phrase in a Dungeon World blog that improved my GMing.
"Cool, what's that look like?"
The important word in there is "Cool" — it communicates that you are excited the player is doing something, that you are not shooting them down or discouraging them, you just need a bit more clarification.
I found a phrase in a Dungeon World blog that improved my GMing.
"Cool, what's that look like?"
The important word in there is "Cool" — it communicates that you are excited the player is doing something, that you are not shooting them down or discouraging them, you just need a bit more clarification.
One of my oldest friends and favorite DMs approaches all of his DMing that way--he's a personal DM hero of mine. Players can't get away with just anything, of course. But his default approach is to see if you can give a good explanation of what you're doing, and he begins by assuming that you can.
I love that you think yourself a new DM, yet you've been playing for a year every week for several hours. It's a great philosophy to consider yourself always new and looking to learn. But I would like to point out you've now been doing this a LOT. You deserve some credit!
Hey guys,
Hoping for a bit of advice here, I'm a new DM and only been playing for about a year. My game is in its 23nd Session (once a week for 3-4 Hours) playing ToA and the players are enjoying it and everything is going well, But there is one player, Whos garage we play it as he has converted the whole garage to wargaming and its a nice venue which already puts me in a bit of a submissive position as it's his house, but the issue I have with this player is that everything time I describe something he is always arguing with me on it stopping the game and frankly just getting to the point that is annoying as hell.
to give an example.
There are swords on anvils (Trials of Xibalba Module)
Player "I send mage hand over to the sword and try to move it"
Me " So you all see the hand float over to one of the swords, it reaches down and grabs the hilt to be....
Player " No it doesn't Grab it, it pushes it"
Me: "Ok, it attempts to push it and nothing happens"
Its always on things that don't change a damn thing, like he constantly thinks I'm going to throw him under the bus for the smallest thing.
Again it's a small issue but have this any time I try to describe his actions and it really adds up to something that is constantly taking the fun out of the game for me.
So - push the responsibility back on him.
Player "I send Mage Hand over to the sword and try to move it"
You: "Describe to me exactly how you're trying to move it".
Player: "I used the Mage Hand to try and push it off the anvil"
You: "OK, it attempts to push it and nothing happens".
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
It seems to me that the player doesn't trust you, and that's a difficult bridge to build. It takes open communication. Based on what you've said, I feel like you understand this, but being bothered by a player's desire to be clear about what their character intends to do shouldn't be a problem. I think it's a fundamental part of the game -- player describes action, DM narrates result. I agree it's rude to interrupt someone while they're speaking, but it's not wrong to clarify what your character meant to do.
So, you don't like being interrupted? Say, "Hey, I don't like being interrupted while I'm running the game. If I misheard something, let me know after the session, but if you interrupt me, I'm probably going to ignore you to keep the game going."
Definitely take Vedexent's advice here and ask more questions -- don't just assume something and take control the character's actions. If it helps, maybe consider that it is not always your job to narrate the player's actions, just the result of the action.
Player "I send Mage Hand over to the sword and try to move it."
DM: "Sure. The sword moves, but nothing in the room changes."
Player: "I meant to try and push it off the anvil."
DM: "OK, so the sword falls off the anvil and clatters to the floor. Nothing in the room changes."
LightSpeed is right: it's going to take communication to resolve whatever is going on. Might pursue a one on one where you invite him to share his side of what's happening. He may he not even be aware that there's a problem.
I find in those situations one good method is to approach the person saying you want to do better as a DM by understanding what issues they might be having. "Hey, Friend. I noticed sometimes you do this. Am I doing something that causes that? Is there something I can do different that will make it more fun for you?"
If that doesn't work, then you've at least given diplomacy a fair try. No one will fault you for asserting table manners afterwards.
If it's a big problem, this might have to be what you resort to. But you want the players to be able to correct you when you get something wrong. If I say "I'm moving to the cliff edge", and the DM says "Okay, you jump off the cliff, and..." :)
Your advice is good, I just wanted to point this part out as being a last resort. You don't want the guy to never correct/add anything. You just want him to stop doing it all the time, right?
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
I'm quoting this because it is the darn good advice worth taking.
I don't see this to be the player arguing with you - he's not communicating fully what he intends to do, and you aren't asking him to. He's assuming you understand him and can be general, you assume you understand him and the conflict is the cause of two assumptions. Always ask how if they aren't specific. If they are specific "I use mage hand to push one of the swords off." hold them to it. "No I meant grab it and..." should be interrupted with "I understand that now, because you were more specific. Going forward please be more specific up front; if you aren't I won't stop the game and wind the clock back to correct your action. Thank you."
I agree with this. Try to get the players more involved with what they are doing or wanting to do within reason. I make it clear in all of my games that the players need to know their characters or be able to look something up if needed. Also if you are giving a description of what a player is doing and they jump in as say that they are doing it another way. I'd be fine with it as long as it seems reasonable. Make a habit of asking the players how and/or exactly they are doing it. Even ask them if they are sure thats how they want to act if needed then set it in stone. If you need to have them read an ability or whatnot to you to justify their action then do so. Just try not to slow the game progress with players looking things up every time they get to their turn.
Thanks so much guys, this has been amazing advice and very happy I came here, As I said I am a pretty fresh DM.
I really like the bit on Push the Responsibility back onto him, What I can see this been is exactly as it was described in the post, it would also stand out that for other players who are way more relaxed they'll roll with it, but every time it comes to his character is slower but exactly what he wants, hopefully over time as he sees me not throwing the other players into the deep end he'll relax a little and trust me as a DM.
Its just a hard one for me as he is the person he got me into D&D and has been playing it for years so i do respect him, thats what made this harder to figure out without looking like I want him to leave or upsetting the friendship.
I found a phrase in a Dungeon World blog that improved my GMing.
"Cool, what's that look like?"
The important word in there is "Cool" — it communicates that you are excited the player is doing something, that you are not shooting them down or discouraging them, you just need a bit more clarification.
One of my oldest friends and favorite DMs approaches all of his DMing that way--he's a personal DM hero of mine. Players can't get away with just anything, of course. But his default approach is to see if you can give a good explanation of what you're doing, and he begins by assuming that you can.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
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InsiderI love that you think yourself a new DM, yet you've been playing for a year every week for several hours. It's a great philosophy to consider yourself always new and looking to learn. But I would like to point out you've now been doing this a LOT. You deserve some credit!
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren