I was wondering if I could get some advice on the subject of Wild Surges. A player in my campaign loves the Wild Sorcerer and is currently level 6. I'm having difficulties determining when to call for a roll on the surge table. I know it's pretty much "whenever I damn well please" but I feel like I'd prefer some rules to hold on to (i know it's meant to be chaotic, but I think the table is chaotic enough). I just don't really feel comfortable to asses whenever they surges happen, since there's always the chance she blows herself up (literally or figuratively).
What I have so far;
Whenever she rolls a 1 or natural 20 when casting a spell that requires an attack roll, she rolls on the surge table Whenever she uses sorcery points for metamagic, she rolls on the surge table Whenever she rolls max damage on a damage roll that has more than 1 die, she rolls on the surge table
Would this work on your table? How do you guys handle it? I'm open to suggestions!
To me those events you'd mentioned look good. I'd probably be generous and remove one of them (probably the Sorcerer point of metamagic).
I think it's good (in theory) that you've removed your role as DM to determine those instances which are based strctly on the players dice rolls, too. It adds to the randomness. The player chose this path and so will have to sufer the consequences (good or bad), and so the player shouldn't look at you to save her/him.
But if I were the DM I'd also ensure to let player know these in advance. Also, to keep things spicy (again if I were the DM), I'd let the player know that I personally retain a right to cause a Wild Surge at any time to heighten tension in mid combat, long rest. Or just walking around time. Even if you never actually plan to.
Honestly the way it is by default is good enough, at least I find. Wild Magic Sorcerers should be using their Tides of Chaos to get advantage as often as they can, and after they've used Tides of Chaos you should have them roll on the Wild Surge table when they cast a leveled spell. This allows them to regain their Tides of Chaos. Rinse and repeat. If that's not enough, have a Wild Surge happen next time they roll practically any d20 after expending their Tides of Chaos.
Honestly the way it is by default is good enough, at least I find. Wild Magic Sorcerers should be using their Tides of Chaos to get advantage as often as they can, and after they've used Tides of Chaos you should have them roll on the Wild Surge table when they cast a leveled spell. This allows them to regain their Tides of Chaos. Rinse and repeat. If that's not enough, have a Wild Surge happen next time they roll practically any d20 after expending their Tides of Chaos.
Yeah, often whenever she uses ToC I also have her roll on the next spell she casts. However, she rarely uses it... She is the kind of player that has 200+ potions at the end of an adventure RPG, if you know what I mean.
Wild surges are fun - I think just rolling a 1 on the d20 (further limited by DM's discretion in asking for it) is too infrequent. I also think as the sorcerer levels up, they should gain better control of spells they've known for longer. So, here's my system:
1. Have them roll a d20 EVERY TIME they cast a leveled spell (which can't be more than once per turn anyway.)
2. Whatever their *highest known level* of spell is gets a DC of 16 to cast with no side effects. So if they know up to 5th-level spells, they have a 25% chance to cast it without side effects.
3. For each level below their highest known, decrease the DC by 2. So by the time they know 9th-level spells you get: 9th level DC 16 8th lvl DC 14 7th lvl DC 12 6th lvl DC 10 5th lvl DC 8 4th lvl DC 6 3rd lvl DC 4 2nd lvl DC 2 1st lvl DC 0 (you never trigger a surge for a 1st level spell)
4. This also give you a LOT higher chance of resetting Tides of Chaos, making TOC more like a rogue's sneak attack, finding ways to benefit from it. :)
Wild surges are fun - I think just rolling a 1 on the d20 (further limited by DM's discretion in asking for it) is too infrequent. I also think as the sorcerer levels up, they should gain better control of spells they've known for longer. So, here's my system:
1. Have them roll a d20 EVERY TIME they cast a leveled spell (which can't be more than once per turn anyway.)
2. Whatever their *highest known level* of spell is gets a DC of 16 to cast with no side effects. So if they know up to 5th-level spells, they have a 25% chance to cast it without side effects.
3. For each level below their highest known, decrease the DC by 2. So by the time they know 9th-level spells you get: 9th level DC 16 8th lvl DC 14 7th lvl DC 12 6th lvl DC 10 5th lvl DC 8 4th lvl DC 6 3rd lvl DC 4 2nd lvl DC 2 1st lvl DC 0 (you never trigger a surge for a 1st level spell)
4. This also give you a LOT higher chance of resetting Tides of Chaos, making TOC more like a rogue's sneak attack, finding ways to benefit from it. :)
I like your idea. I've also thought about having her roll a diminishing die every time (so a d20 to start with, if no surge then a d12, then a d10, d8, d6 d4) suggesting a buildup of magical energy that sort of ignites at the most innoportune time. However, I don't want to have her surge too often, so that was out the window. I like the chaos of it, but i've had her turn into a sheep during a 3rd lvl encounter (luckily at the end), and if at that instance she blew up the party with a self-targeted fireball, that would have been a tpk. I don't want that...
I do like the idea of higher level spells having a higher risk of surging...
I would explain to the character that Wild Sorc is actually designed to roll ON the wild magic table often (not just rolling FOR wild magic), and this is important as the wild magic is the main feature of the subclass.
Using tides of chaos allows you to roll directly on the wild magic table while skipping having to roll for it, the odds of which getting it are highly unlikely. By doing it this way with ToC, at your DM's discretion, you can be rolling wild magic almost every turn. AND you're not wasting your Tides that they might think they need to save for later, because the ability recharges when the DM asks you to roll on the wild magic table.
Wild Magic is one of those subclasses where the player and DM have to be very knowledgeable on how it works in order for it to work. Usually the problem is the DM never remembering to ask for them to roll it since DM's have a thousand other things to worry about, but the player needs to know their abilities too. They especially need to know that, if you're not using Tides as often as possible, then you're never gonna roll wild magic. You're gonna roll FOR it often, but 1/20 chance means you'll basically never use your subclass.
I would explain to the character that Wild Sorc is actually designed to roll ON the wild magic table often (not just rolling FOR wild magic), and this is important as the wild magic is the main feature of the subclass.
Using tides of chaos allows you to roll directly on the wild magic table while skipping having to roll for it, the odds of which getting it are highly unlikely. By doing it this way with ToC, at your DM's discretion, you can be rolling wild magic almost every turn. AND you're not wasting your Tides that they might think they need to save for later, because the ability recharges when the DM asks you to roll on the wild magic table.
Wild Magic is one of those subclasses where the player and DM have to be very knowledgeable on how it works in order for it to work. Usually the problem is the DM never remembering to ask for them to roll it since DM's have a thousand other things to worry about, but the player needs to know their abilities too. They especially need to know that, if you're not using Tides as often as possible, then you're never gonna roll wild magic. You're gonna roll FOR it often, but 1/20 chance means you'll basically never use your subclass.
Thanks for your input. After closer inspection of the surge table, I've noticed that perhaps my fear is a bit too exaggerated. I thought there were many effects that would cause a lot of damage or summon nasties, but it's not that bad.
I think I'll just discuss it with her in order to make it happen more often. If any of you have other ideas, please do share!
Yeah, the wild surge table has a LOT of fun stuff in it. In the game I DM, i have a teen NPC who is a wild sorc who can't control his magic, so he has no spells and can only roll wild magic. It's made for some fun combats without derailing the player's experiences.
I saw a statistical breakdown of the table somewhere and it suggested that overall, if your WM sorcerer tends to stand a bit closer to the baddies than to their parties, the effects are an overall benefit, minus one or two bad ones like the self-centered fireball. :)
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Hey guys,
I was wondering if I could get some advice on the subject of Wild Surges. A player in my campaign loves the Wild Sorcerer and is currently level 6. I'm having difficulties determining when to call for a roll on the surge table. I know it's pretty much "whenever I damn well please" but I feel like I'd prefer some rules to hold on to (i know it's meant to be chaotic, but I think the table is chaotic enough). I just don't really feel comfortable to asses whenever they surges happen, since there's always the chance she blows herself up (literally or figuratively).
What I have so far;
Whenever she rolls a 1 or natural 20 when casting a spell that requires an attack roll, she rolls on the surge table
Whenever she uses sorcery points for metamagic, she rolls on the surge table
Whenever she rolls max damage on a damage roll that has more than 1 die, she rolls on the surge table
Would this work on your table? How do you guys handle it? I'm open to suggestions!
Kind regards
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
To me those events you'd mentioned look good. I'd probably be generous and remove one of them (probably the Sorcerer point of metamagic).
I think it's good (in theory) that you've removed your role as DM to determine those instances which are based strctly on the players dice rolls, too. It adds to the randomness. The player chose this path and so will have to sufer the consequences (good or bad), and so the player shouldn't look at you to save her/him.
But if I were the DM I'd also ensure to let player know these in advance. Also, to keep things spicy (again if I were the DM), I'd let the player know that I personally retain a right to cause a Wild Surge at any time to heighten tension in mid combat, long rest. Or just walking around time. Even if you never actually plan to.
Boldly go
Honestly the way it is by default is good enough, at least I find. Wild Magic Sorcerers should be using their Tides of Chaos to get advantage as often as they can, and after they've used Tides of Chaos you should have them roll on the Wild Surge table when they cast a leveled spell. This allows them to regain their Tides of Chaos. Rinse and repeat. If that's not enough, have a Wild Surge happen next time they roll practically any d20 after expending their Tides of Chaos.
Yeah, often whenever she uses ToC I also have her roll on the next spell she casts. However, she rarely uses it... She is the kind of player that has 200+ potions at the end of an adventure RPG, if you know what I mean.
Kind regards
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
Wild surges are fun - I think just rolling a 1 on the d20 (further limited by DM's discretion in asking for it) is too infrequent. I also think as the sorcerer levels up, they should gain better control of spells they've known for longer. So, here's my system:
1. Have them roll a d20 EVERY TIME they cast a leveled spell (which can't be more than once per turn anyway.)
2. Whatever their *highest known level* of spell is gets a DC of 16 to cast with no side effects. So if they know up to 5th-level spells, they have a 25% chance to cast it without side effects.
3. For each level below their highest known, decrease the DC by 2. So by the time they know 9th-level spells you get:
9th level DC 16
8th lvl DC 14
7th lvl DC 12
6th lvl DC 10
5th lvl DC 8
4th lvl DC 6
3rd lvl DC 4
2nd lvl DC 2
1st lvl DC 0 (you never trigger a surge for a 1st level spell)
4. This also give you a LOT higher chance of resetting Tides of Chaos, making TOC more like a rogue's sneak attack, finding ways to benefit from it. :)
I like your idea. I've also thought about having her roll a diminishing die every time (so a d20 to start with, if no surge then a d12, then a d10, d8, d6 d4) suggesting a buildup of magical energy that sort of ignites at the most innoportune time. However, I don't want to have her surge too often, so that was out the window. I like the chaos of it, but i've had her turn into a sheep during a 3rd lvl encounter (luckily at the end), and if at that instance she blew up the party with a self-targeted fireball, that would have been a tpk. I don't want that...
I do like the idea of higher level spells having a higher risk of surging...
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
I would explain to the character that Wild Sorc is actually designed to roll ON the wild magic table often (not just rolling FOR wild magic), and this is important as the wild magic is the main feature of the subclass.
Using tides of chaos allows you to roll directly on the wild magic table while skipping having to roll for it, the odds of which getting it are highly unlikely. By doing it this way with ToC, at your DM's discretion, you can be rolling wild magic almost every turn. AND you're not wasting your Tides that they might think they need to save for later, because the ability recharges when the DM asks you to roll on the wild magic table.
Wild Magic is one of those subclasses where the player and DM have to be very knowledgeable on how it works in order for it to work. Usually the problem is the DM never remembering to ask for them to roll it since DM's have a thousand other things to worry about, but the player needs to know their abilities too. They especially need to know that, if you're not using Tides as often as possible, then you're never gonna roll wild magic. You're gonna roll FOR it often, but 1/20 chance means you'll basically never use your subclass.
Thanks for your input. After closer inspection of the surge table, I've noticed that perhaps my fear is a bit too exaggerated. I thought there were many effects that would cause a lot of damage or summon nasties, but it's not that bad.
I think I'll just discuss it with her in order to make it happen more often. If any of you have other ideas, please do share!
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
Yeah, the wild surge table has a LOT of fun stuff in it. In the game I DM, i have a teen NPC who is a wild sorc who can't control his magic, so he has no spells and can only roll wild magic. It's made for some fun combats without derailing the player's experiences.
I saw a statistical breakdown of the table somewhere and it suggested that overall, if your WM sorcerer tends to stand a bit closer to the baddies than to their parties, the effects are an overall benefit, minus one or two bad ones like the self-centered fireball. :)