I'm a relatively new DM, and I'm using the LMoP campaign. My party is pretty crazy. For example, in Phandalin, the bard decided to put the shopkeeper at the Lionshield Coster (as well as the paladin) to sleep using sleep and then stole some plate armor and put it on the paladin in the one minute that they were asleep and then dragged the paladin off. How exactly do I deal with this? The bard also loves to use charm person on people, he's used charm person on one of the redbrand ruffians at the Sleeping Giant to get him to tell the party that the leader was Glasstaff before they even entered Transcendor Manor. Then when they got to Cragmaw hideout, when they found out that a human wizard was missing after heading to Phandalin, they immediately were like "HE'S GLASSTAFF".
I honestly don't know what to do in any of these situations....
Well, if you want to go the "Rules As Written" route, it takes 10 minutes to put plate armor on. So that'd be out anyway.
Going by the narrative, were there any other patrons at the shop? How do you think they'd react to a guy magically knocking out 2 people and then robbing the shop? How would guard patrols react to seeing a guy dragging an unconscious person through the street? How far do you think a person could get dragging a paladin in a minute? Wouldn't the shopkeeper wake up and think "Hey, I'm missing that plate mail and those 2 guys are gone after magically putting me to sleep. Bet it was them."
For Charm Person, don't forget that they person who is charmed knows they've been charmed after the spell wears off. So yeah, maybe they get the information, but now the gang knows the party knows. You can draw some easy conclusions on what a group of people would do with that information. Give them consequences for their actions. More security around Glasstaff, maybe he appears before them before they're ready and just wrecks them and tells them to back off and stop asking about him.
And as the DM, you can always roll behind a screen and say "He resists your charm person." I wouldn't do this too much, but some significant NPCs may need to be shielded every now and again.
The players are not completely experienced, but not new to the game. I think everyone (including me) was pretty happy with the adventure so far, but it's hard to know where to draw the line...
Is it legal to charm Klarg and then have him go to other rooms in the Cragmaw Hideout to kill the other goblins?
They also are very good at staying in character, after the paladin found out about the party stealing plate armor, she just started praying for hours and was like "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS" but since she's chaotic good she just sort of goes along with it.
It's hilarious, the human wizard had an octopus familiar that he'd throw at people which would then would attack with its tentacles and immediately make the person who the octopus was thrown at grappled. He was so upset after having him be stabbed by one of the redbrands and killed. He jumped into the little pools of water in the Cragmaw Hideout to look for a new fish familiar and it was just great.
Also, the Bard has proficiency in animal handling for no reason in particular, so I asked the player and he just said "shhhhhhhh. It's because I like puppies." How do I deal with that one?
Another thing to add, is that I've played this campaign once before as a PC.
According to Charm Person, "The Charmed creature regards you as a friendly acquaintance." Do you think if your friendly acquaintance asked you to kill a bunch of your other friends, you'd do it? Even further, the question could be considered to be so jarring that a DM could be justified in having the charmed creature make another save against being charmed. That's not RAW, but I think it'd be a good narrative choice and also make your players more careful about the things they ask.
Actually, going back to charming the bandit, it could be argued that the bandit was a very professional person who isn't just going to tell their friends about their work secrets. If it was known within the organization that Glasstaff was the leader, and that was supposed to remain secret, the bandit may not tell his friends about it. Just another work around for Charm Person to keep in mind.
Dealing with shenigans can be dealt with in many ways.
Out-of-game (preferred solution). "Look, people, this is not the game I want to play/run."
Rules-based: Sleep lasts for 1 minute. Putting armour on a willing person takes 10 minutes (probably twice to three times that if the person is unconscous). Charm Person is not Dominate. Familiars can't attack (which means they can't grapple). Octopi suffocate after 30 minutes in air (and when it dies, you need an hour and 10GP of materials to get it back).
In-game: In a town the size of Phandelin, there is probably only one suit of plate armour. If a shopkeeper falls asleep, wakes up, then sees the missing armour worn by a PC, they are going to call the town guard. The guard is going to arrest the PC. If the PC resists then they are now bandits. If the town can't deal with them, they'll send a "help" message off to Waterdeep or Neverwinter. Then the next PCs that arrive to do LMoP will treat the first group of PCs as the bad guys. :-)
That's assuming the shopkeeper even lets them cast a spell. In most D&D worlds, magic is common and commonly recognised. As soon as the shopkeeper sees the mage stat muttering, they are probably going for their weapon. The bouncer at the Sleeping Giant is not going to let a spell be cast on patrons. As an aside, this is why the sorcerer metamagics silent spell and subtle spell are so useful.
"Look, friends, your PCs are acting like bandits. If you continue to do this, I'm going to run the game world like you are the bad guys. Is this what you want?"
Some groups like this sort of game. Perhaps the PCs take over the bandits and become the crime lords who run the town? Then the game becomes the D&D equivalent of the Evil Genius and Dungeon Keeper video games.
Yeah, i think you need to get more familiar with the mechanics of the game. it's not sexy, but they're in there to prevent a lot of OP stuff. Charm Person has it's limits. It's not a "do everything I tell you". They see you as a friend, but that doesn't make them unaware of their other responsibilities and implications. I have lots of friends (ok, I have some friends) but I don't go telling them confidential information relating to my work.
For so much other stuff, implications. Like other people have said, you can't just knock someone out and walk out with their stuff without having a whole lot of trouble come looking for you. And people are going to remember a fighter in full plate clanking around the joint. So just think about the repercussions of the more chaotic/unlawful stuff.
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I'm a relatively new DM, and I'm using the LMoP campaign. My party is pretty crazy. For example, in Phandalin, the bard decided to put the shopkeeper at the Lionshield Coster (as well as the paladin) to sleep using sleep and then stole some plate armor and put it on the paladin in the one minute that they were asleep and then dragged the paladin off. How exactly do I deal with this? The bard also loves to use charm person on people, he's used charm person on one of the redbrand ruffians at the Sleeping Giant to get him to tell the party that the leader was Glasstaff before they even entered Transcendor Manor. Then when they got to Cragmaw hideout, when they found out that a human wizard was missing after heading to Phandalin, they immediately were like "HE'S GLASSTAFF".
I honestly don't know what to do in any of these situations....
Well, if you want to go the "Rules As Written" route, it takes 10 minutes to put plate armor on. So that'd be out anyway.
Going by the narrative, were there any other patrons at the shop? How do you think they'd react to a guy magically knocking out 2 people and then robbing the shop? How would guard patrols react to seeing a guy dragging an unconscious person through the street? How far do you think a person could get dragging a paladin in a minute? Wouldn't the shopkeeper wake up and think "Hey, I'm missing that plate mail and those 2 guys are gone after magically putting me to sleep. Bet it was them."
For Charm Person, don't forget that they person who is charmed knows they've been charmed after the spell wears off. So yeah, maybe they get the information, but now the gang knows the party knows. You can draw some easy conclusions on what a group of people would do with that information. Give them consequences for their actions. More security around Glasstaff, maybe he appears before them before they're ready and just wrecks them and tells them to back off and stop asking about him.
And as the DM, you can always roll behind a screen and say "He resists your charm person." I wouldn't do this too much, but some significant NPCs may need to be shielded every now and again.
Thanks for the feedback!
The players are not completely experienced, but not new to the game. I think everyone (including me) was pretty happy with the adventure so far, but it's hard to know where to draw the line...
Is it legal to charm Klarg and then have him go to other rooms in the Cragmaw Hideout to kill the other goblins?
They also are very good at staying in character, after the paladin found out about the party stealing plate armor, she just started praying for hours and was like "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU GUYS" but since she's chaotic good she just sort of goes along with it.
It's hilarious, the human wizard had an octopus familiar that he'd throw at people which would then would attack with its tentacles and immediately make the person who the octopus was thrown at grappled. He was so upset after having him be stabbed by one of the redbrands and killed. He jumped into the little pools of water in the Cragmaw Hideout to look for a new fish familiar and it was just great.
Also, the Bard has proficiency in animal handling for no reason in particular, so I asked the player and he just said "shhhhhhhh. It's because I like puppies." How do I deal with that one?
Another thing to add, is that I've played this campaign once before as a PC.
According to Charm Person, "The Charmed creature regards you as a friendly acquaintance." Do you think if your friendly acquaintance asked you to kill a bunch of your other friends, you'd do it? Even further, the question could be considered to be so jarring that a DM could be justified in having the charmed creature make another save against being charmed. That's not RAW, but I think it'd be a good narrative choice and also make your players more careful about the things they ask.
Actually, going back to charming the bandit, it could be argued that the bandit was a very professional person who isn't just going to tell their friends about their work secrets. If it was known within the organization that Glasstaff was the leader, and that was supposed to remain secret, the bandit may not tell his friends about it. Just another work around for Charm Person to keep in mind.
Dealing with shenigans can be dealt with in many ways.
Out-of-game (preferred solution). "Look, people, this is not the game I want to play/run."
Rules-based: Sleep lasts for 1 minute. Putting armour on a willing person takes 10 minutes (probably twice to three times that if the person is unconscous). Charm Person is not Dominate. Familiars can't attack (which means they can't grapple). Octopi suffocate after 30 minutes in air (and when it dies, you need an hour and 10GP of materials to get it back).
In-game: In a town the size of Phandelin, there is probably only one suit of plate armour. If a shopkeeper falls asleep, wakes up, then sees the missing armour worn by a PC, they are going to call the town guard. The guard is going to arrest the PC. If the PC resists then they are now bandits. If the town can't deal with them, they'll send a "help" message off to Waterdeep or Neverwinter. Then the next PCs that arrive to do LMoP will treat the first group of PCs as the bad guys. :-)
That's assuming the shopkeeper even lets them cast a spell. In most D&D worlds, magic is common and commonly recognised. As soon as the shopkeeper sees the mage stat muttering, they are probably going for their weapon. The bouncer at the Sleeping Giant is not going to let a spell be cast on patrons. As an aside, this is why the sorcerer metamagics silent spell and subtle spell are so useful.
"Look, friends, your PCs are acting like bandits. If you continue to do this, I'm going to run the game world like you are the bad guys. Is this what you want?"
Some groups like this sort of game. Perhaps the PCs take over the bandits and become the crime lords who run the town? Then the game becomes the D&D equivalent of the Evil Genius and Dungeon Keeper video games.
Yeah, i think you need to get more familiar with the mechanics of the game. it's not sexy, but they're in there to prevent a lot of OP stuff. Charm Person has it's limits. It's not a "do everything I tell you". They see you as a friend, but that doesn't make them unaware of their other responsibilities and implications. I have lots of friends (ok, I have some friends) but I don't go telling them confidential information relating to my work.
For so much other stuff, implications. Like other people have said, you can't just knock someone out and walk out with their stuff without having a whole lot of trouble come looking for you. And people are going to remember a fighter in full plate clanking around the joint. So just think about the repercussions of the more chaotic/unlawful stuff.