My players are closing in on the final room of one of pseudo-BBEG's dungeon under his mansion. The big bad is a vampire. He is going to flee the room through a portal, leaving the PCs to fight his two brides and one of the PCs' brother who has been transformed into some special variety of vampire spawn. Right now the fight is set to be these two home brew monsters: 2 Manananggels (a Philipino female vampiric creature with a torso that detaches from her legs as she grows wings) and the PC's brother (Relvan Ariesus). As you will see, Relvan's magical capabilities and access to magical machinery and glyphs and such make it so that he can summon devils into the fight. There are 6 summoning crystals in the room. 4 are required for the stronger summon, so destroying 3 would remove that capability. The PCs have no real briefing on what they are going to face exactly. They believe they will be going up against the master vampire and hence have researched vampires in-character and how to kill them. This won't apply to the manananggels, and they will likely want to take Relvan alive. Here are the homebrew monsters. Would love some feedback on if this fight is too much or not enough or spot on.
We have 7 level 10 PCs (wizard, sorcerer, cleric, monk, fighter/rogue, ranger, and paladin).
I think if the spellcasters can figure out how the crystals work with an Arcana check the fight should be ok.
Even if they all fail, after the first time Relvan summoned something the players should focus on destroying the crystals, and the Mananaggels seem to be ok.
With 7 players the fight actually seems a bit easy to me, especially if the spellcasters walk in with all their high level slots.
If you have the character sheets you could test the encounter alone, without the players. That should give you a better idea how difficult the fight is going to be.
Wondering if it makes sense to up the summons. I imagine the way the fight will go down, they will see the crystals in action right away, and it'll be visually obvious that the summons are coming from them. They will have all or nearly all of their spell slots.
7 PCs should be able to disable Relgan in one round, making his summons irrelevant (the finisher has to be delivered in melee, but that's not all that limiting). The Manananggels seem very low attack for CR 8.
In general summonings are prone to snowballing; if PCs can get ahead of the curve they walk all over the fight, if they get behind the curve they get overwhelmed. You can cut down on variability by making summons be triggered (rather than every round, they occur at damage thresholds)
I like the triggering idea. I think I might up Relvans health and regen and change the fight to trigger the Simmons at 75%, 50% and 25%. I thought the manananggels were on par with dng recommendations for to hit and damage. Is it the to hit or the damage or both that seemed low to you @pantagruel666?
Well I don't know if you still need help with this, but I think the encounter can be pretty balanced depending on the dimensions of the room (if it's too small lvl 7 PCs will just be able to take out multiple crystals each round with AOE spells and too big will ensure that the summoning gets out of hand.) As far as the CR 8 creatures they seem good enough. Personally the biggest change I would make is make it so that the crystals function on a cool down/timer. Once a crystal is activated for a summon make it so that specific crystal can't be used again for a couple rounds. I'd describe it like this:
"There are 6 large glowing red crystals that almost seem to pulse with light dimly illuminating the chamber; they float above deep pools of what appears to be blood which bubbles and refuses to coagulate." Then after you make the first summon say something along the lines of this "You notice the two crystals closest to you dim as the blood begins to boil underneath" Provided that those crystals are still intact by the start of the next round it would be followed by "from the blood begins to rise a crimson mist which is slowly being absorbed into the dark red crystal above" And on the following round the crystals glow once more recharged.
Since the crystals would recharge after the layer action takes place on that round you can say that it means when you use a crystal it guarantees that that crystal can't be used again for 2 entire rounds. It also gives you the DM and by extension the monster Revlan more strategic control over the battlefield by choosing which crystals to use... If you want to be mean use the crystals nearest to the players that way the players have to get further into the room to deal with the still active and currently more dangerous remaining glowing crystals. This set up also allows for additional options such as making the floor within 5-10 feet of the crystal difficult terrain as it is covered in a slippery pool of blood, you could also make a crystal explode if it was charged when it was destroyed dealing 2d6 force dmg in a 10 foot radius unless the creatures make a DC 14 Dex save (if you use this you should make the dmg type one that is effective against all creatures in the combat). Finally you could also make it so that way a charging crystal becomes lightly or heavily obscured in crimson mist making it so ranged attacks either have disadvantage or are treated like they're targeting something in partial cover (+2 AC). Finally, you can also use how the enemies move to warn the players about these gimmicks things like having them avoid lit crystals that could explode but not worry about dimmed crystals at all. Though this is just my opinion on how I'd run the encounter it would easily make the entire boss fight more interesting for the players and I think much more fun. Oh also don't forget to use that little sigil gimmick on summoned mobs if need be that way players feel more focused on taking out the adds
It is mostly balanced. If the PCs stop the regeneration, the fight can easily be over in a couple of rounds. And even then with the regeneration they will not be able to take him alive unless there is some way of binding or controlling the undead.
The AC is low for creatures. At level 10 you probably have a +8 to hit and the 18 AC is getting hit 55% of the time. That is not including any other bonuses or advantage/disadvantage. If the PCs have silvered or magic weapons that may make their HP be eaten through very quickly. Could have some aswang - low level monsters - that could be cannon fodder to keep the more interesting monsters in the fight.
The summons could be done as a lair action so that way it occurs at or near the top of the round. It could have a 1 round delay with it so they can get an idea of how to stop it. Crystals begin to glow brightly, a circle appears in their center glowing the same color, a form materializing in the circle would give some hint. Arcana check to determine the connection and what it will summon would be good. Even with 7 players they make not get the idea to attack the crystals.
AC 18 is fine, I generally assume a hit chance of about 70% is standard (a typical level 10 fighter type is unlikely to have an attack bonus of less than +10 -- +5 strength, +4 proficiency, +1 magic)
Thanks everyone for your help in this. Ran this fight last night and, while it took a long time, it went exceptionally well. Players had to drain a ton of their resources in order to succeed and still care close to losing a few people. Had about 5%-10% of wiggle room to go harder before it became devastating and a potential TPK, but that’s a close enough margin that the dice could screw us. Very happy overall.
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My players are closing in on the final room of one of pseudo-BBEG's dungeon under his mansion. The big bad is a vampire. He is going to flee the room through a portal, leaving the PCs to fight his two brides and one of the PCs' brother who has been transformed into some special variety of vampire spawn. Right now the fight is set to be these two home brew monsters: 2 Manananggels (a Philipino female vampiric creature with a torso that detaches from her legs as she grows wings) and the PC's brother (Relvan Ariesus). As you will see, Relvan's magical capabilities and access to magical machinery and glyphs and such make it so that he can summon devils into the fight. There are 6 summoning crystals in the room. 4 are required for the stronger summon, so destroying 3 would remove that capability. The PCs have no real briefing on what they are going to face exactly. They believe they will be going up against the master vampire and hence have researched vampires in-character and how to kill them. This won't apply to the manananggels, and they will likely want to take Relvan alive. Here are the homebrew monsters. Would love some feedback on if this fight is too much or not enough or spot on.
We have 7 level 10 PCs (wizard, sorcerer, cleric, monk, fighter/rogue, ranger, and paladin).
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/832219-manananggal
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/816210-relvan-ariessus
I think if the spellcasters can figure out how the crystals work with an Arcana check the fight should be ok.
Even if they all fail, after the first time Relvan summoned something the players should focus on destroying the crystals, and the Mananaggels seem to be ok.
With 7 players the fight actually seems a bit easy to me, especially if the spellcasters walk in with all their high level slots.
If you have the character sheets you could test the encounter alone, without the players. That should give you a better idea how difficult the fight is going to be.
Wondering if it makes sense to up the summons. I imagine the way the fight will go down, they will see the crystals in action right away, and it'll be visually obvious that the summons are coming from them. They will have all or nearly all of their spell slots.
7 PCs should be able to disable Relgan in one round, making his summons irrelevant (the finisher has to be delivered in melee, but that's not all that limiting). The Manananggels seem very low attack for CR 8.
In general summonings are prone to snowballing; if PCs can get ahead of the curve they walk all over the fight, if they get behind the curve they get overwhelmed. You can cut down on variability by making summons be triggered (rather than every round, they occur at damage thresholds)
I like the triggering idea. I think I might up Relvans health and regen and change the fight to trigger the Simmons at 75%, 50% and 25%. I thought the manananggels were on par with dng recommendations for to hit and damage. Is it the to hit or the damage or both that seemed low to you @pantagruel666?
Oh, I missed the 2d6 necrotic per attack, that gets them up to 46.5 damage, which is on par for CR 8. I was just setting 25.5.
Oh yea I calculated that out in excel. Definitely need to make Relvan more tanky and change the summon trigger.
Well I don't know if you still need help with this, but I think the encounter can be pretty balanced depending on the dimensions of the room (if it's too small lvl 7 PCs will just be able to take out multiple crystals each round with AOE spells and too big will ensure that the summoning gets out of hand.) As far as the CR 8 creatures they seem good enough. Personally the biggest change I would make is make it so that the crystals function on a cool down/timer. Once a crystal is activated for a summon make it so that specific crystal can't be used again for a couple rounds. I'd describe it like this:
"There are 6 large glowing red crystals that almost seem to pulse with light dimly illuminating the chamber; they float above deep pools of what appears to be blood which bubbles and refuses to coagulate." Then after you make the first summon say something along the lines of this "You notice the two crystals closest to you dim as the blood begins to boil underneath" Provided that those crystals are still intact by the start of the next round it would be followed by "from the blood begins to rise a crimson mist which is slowly being absorbed into the dark red crystal above" And on the following round the crystals glow once more recharged.
Since the crystals would recharge after the layer action takes place on that round you can say that it means when you use a crystal it guarantees that that crystal can't be used again for 2 entire rounds. It also gives you the DM and by extension the monster Revlan more strategic control over the battlefield by choosing which crystals to use... If you want to be mean use the crystals nearest to the players that way the players have to get further into the room to deal with the still active and currently more dangerous remaining glowing crystals. This set up also allows for additional options such as making the floor within 5-10 feet of the crystal difficult terrain as it is covered in a slippery pool of blood, you could also make a crystal explode if it was charged when it was destroyed dealing 2d6 force dmg in a 10 foot radius unless the creatures make a DC 14 Dex save (if you use this you should make the dmg type one that is effective against all creatures in the combat). Finally you could also make it so that way a charging crystal becomes lightly or heavily obscured in crimson mist making it so ranged attacks either have disadvantage or are treated like they're targeting something in partial cover (+2 AC). Finally, you can also use how the enemies move to warn the players about these gimmicks things like having them avoid lit crystals that could explode but not worry about dimmed crystals at all. Though this is just my opinion on how I'd run the encounter it would easily make the entire boss fight more interesting for the players and I think much more fun. Oh also don't forget to use that little sigil gimmick on summoned mobs if need be that way players feel more focused on taking out the adds
It is mostly balanced. If the PCs stop the regeneration, the fight can easily be over in a couple of rounds. And even then with the regeneration they will not be able to take him alive unless there is some way of binding or controlling the undead.
The AC is low for creatures. At level 10 you probably have a +8 to hit and the 18 AC is getting hit 55% of the time. That is not including any other bonuses or advantage/disadvantage. If the PCs have silvered or magic weapons that may make their HP be eaten through very quickly. Could have some aswang - low level monsters - that could be cannon fodder to keep the more interesting monsters in the fight.
The summons could be done as a lair action so that way it occurs at or near the top of the round. It could have a 1 round delay with it so they can get an idea of how to stop it. Crystals begin to glow brightly, a circle appears in their center glowing the same color, a form materializing in the circle would give some hint. Arcana check to determine the connection and what it will summon would be good. Even with 7 players they make not get the idea to attack the crystals.
AC 18 is fine, I generally assume a hit chance of about 70% is standard (a typical level 10 fighter type is unlikely to have an attack bonus of less than +10 -- +5 strength, +4 proficiency, +1 magic)
Thanks everyone for your help in this. Ran this fight last night and, while it took a long time, it went exceptionally well. Players had to drain a ton of their resources in order to succeed and still care close to losing a few people. Had about 5%-10% of wiggle room to go harder before it became devastating and a potential TPK, but that’s a close enough margin that the dice could screw us. Very happy overall.