Players of my campaign! (you know who I'm talking to!) Don't read!!
That being said! Currently in the story, The party have just become residents of a brand new settlement in a wild frontier and they learned on their first day that there is a local bandit "King" who demands taxes from his "subjects". On their first day in the settlement, the "Duke" of bandits came to town with some goonies looking to collect and the party pretty much said "F*** off" The Duke fled, the party defeated goonies leaving one alive for questioning.
Goonie #3 told them (with self preservation in mind) that if the King learns that the Duke and his "tax collectors" didn't return, The little settlement would be leveled to "Set an example" Goonie #3 is under the impression that the Duke fled to tell the King, but in reality, the Duke is fed up with the King and has pretty much seen this last complication as a "F*** it, I'm done" kind of thing.
The party is under the impression that the Goonie #3 NPC is an all knowing proxy for the DM and his word must be law so they're all ASSUMING that in the exact time it takes for traveling to the Bandit King's "castle", the Duke is going to arrive with forces to take down the settlement.
In short, He isn't. But the whole party (in character and out of character) are playing with the ASSUMPTION that he DEFINITELY is coming. (asking questions like "How many days until they attack" rather than "how many days since the duke fled").
What I'm concerned about is that since they have about 2 weeks of time before their assumed attack is happening, they're going to spend the WHOLE session prepping the town for attack, making traps, training civilians and waiting out days without doing anything only for the day to come and me as a DM be like "Nothing happens". While this makes sense from a realism/story point of view, its not fun (for anyone) to have a whole 4 hour evening of game wasted prepping for an encounter that didn't happen.
So I guess my question is: Should I go the route intended and having the Duke NOT show up making them seek him out and find out why. OR have him show up in town as they've assumed to avoid their planning going to waste?
I'd suggest throwing in some doubt on goonie #3's testimony. You could have another small group of bandits come into town for some carousing. Presumably there is a bar/tavern in town? I'd probably do this about a week after the last band arrived in town. This group could have different information.
Alternatively, the "king" decided that since the duke is overdue - perhaps he didn't make a rendezvous where he was expected to hand over the taxes to a group heading back to the "castle". That group has now headed off working backward along the route the duke was supposed to take wondering if he has run off with the taxes himself or been waylaid.
The king could have a network of pigeons/birds to carry messages or alternatively some low level hedge mages hidden around that handle communications for the gang. These spies could have reported something and the duke is already responding. They may know that it was the characters that caused the problem and not the town itself.
Also, making an example of a whole town is actually very bad for business ... no town = no taxes ... the king would be much better off making an example of only the town leadership for example - destroying the town makes no sense from a tax maximization perspective and if you think about it, that is all the bandit king likely cares about. You could pass a note to one of the PCs maybe based on an insight, investigation or an intelligence check indicating that this aspect of goonie #3s story may not make that much sense when you spend some time thinking about it. It could be that is what he heard the king say but that doesn't mean it is what the king would do (though it may depend on what sort of "king" this bandit leader might be - if he is an evil tyrant then destroying a village might be all in a days work but if he is trying to maximize his income - a few examples should do just as well).
I'm going to assume respondents don't need spoilers. You're all on your honor.
I mean, if I just had The Magnificent Seven fall into my lap, I'd roll with it. What was your alternative idea of how this would go? The Bandit King isn't going to be super-cool with the situation when he does find out. If the dude's coming, he may as well come before your players dig a big moat around the town and recast the church bell into a cannon or something.
Actually, that'd be pretty cool, if the Bandit King watched your guys put up a motte-and-bailey fortress in two weeks and offered to team up with them.
Thanks! I like the idea of a second group of goonies coming through with different info!
as for the "destroying the town" Thing, The "King" has recently changed a lot. One of the reasons for the Duke deciding to leave is that the King isn't the same charismatic genius as he used to be when he united the bandits. He's grown drunk with power as well as LITERALLY drunk, "seeing most of the world through the bottom of a bottle". So while he USED to be about maxing profit, he's become more arrogant and rash.
I have an encounter idea for if they seek the duke out that COULD lead to them getting him (at least partially) on their side to overthrow the King, but it would require them seeking him out rather than waiting around town lol
...I mean, if I just had The Magnificent Seven fall into my lap, I'd roll with it....
This campaign is also Western themed... >.>
Several of my players have actually mentioned the movie by name in their plans lol
I guess what I was looking for is a way to give them what they want without getting rid of the complexity of the Duke's character and making him do EXACTLY what "Elite Goon #1" would do.
How do the townsfolk feel about the PCs fighting off the bandits? Do they see the PCs as liberators, or do they see the PCs actions as bringing down the King's wrath upon them needlessly?
Perhaps there is a small percentage of townsfolk who are content with paying taxes to avoid confrontation. They may send word to the King. They could sneak in bandits to hamper the PCs efforts, or there may already be a group of the King's supporters in town posing as simple townsfolk who will fight back against the PCs or sabotage their efforts.
The town leaders may become more and more anxious as the final day approaches and try to rally the people against the PCs in hopes of avoiding attack.
The King's lack of action towards the PCs fighting back is seen as a sign of weakness by the other towns in the King's territory sparking a major revolt or even an invasion by a rival bandit group.
Players of my campaign! (you know who I'm talking to!) Don't read!!
That being said! Currently in the story, The party have just become residents of a brand new settlement in a wild frontier and they learned on their first day that there is a local bandit "King" who demands taxes from his "subjects". On their first day in the settlement, the "Duke" of bandits came to town with some goonies looking to collect and the party pretty much said "F*** off" The Duke fled, the party defeated goonies leaving one alive for questioning.
Goonie #3 told them (with self preservation in mind) that if the King learns that the Duke and his "tax collectors" didn't return, The little settlement would be leveled to "Set an example" Goonie #3 is under the impression that the Duke fled to tell the King, but in reality, the Duke is fed up with the King and has pretty much seen this last complication as a "F*** it, I'm done" kind of thing.
The party is under the impression that the Goonie #3 NPC is an all knowing proxy for the DM and his word must be law so they're all ASSUMING that in the exact time it takes for traveling to the Bandit King's "castle", the Duke is going to arrive with forces to take down the settlement.
In short, He isn't. But the whole party (in character and out of character) are playing with the ASSUMPTION that he DEFINITELY is coming. (asking questions like "How many days until they attack" rather than "how many days since the duke fled").
What I'm concerned about is that since they have about 2 weeks of time before their assumed attack is happening, they're going to spend the WHOLE session prepping the town for attack, making traps, training civilians and waiting out days without doing anything only for the day to come and me as a DM be like "Nothing happens". While this makes sense from a realism/story point of view, its not fun (for anyone) to have a whole 4 hour evening of game wasted prepping for an encounter that didn't happen.
So I guess my question is: Should I go the route intended and having the Duke NOT show up making them seek him out and find out why. OR have him show up in town as they've assumed to avoid their planning going to waste?
OR third option: OTHER?
My players basically run such a settlement in my campaign. They also spent a considerable amount of time prepping the defenses, but I actually turned it into multiple sessions. What I did was have some downtime (for me it was a month each time, but you obviously don't have that much time so it'd be days). An unrelated quest pops up (make it related to the defense building somehow, such as finding additional supplies, getting rare herbs from dangerous places for medicines, recruiting a traveling band of fighters who will help for a favor returned) demanding their attention, they address it, then have a few more days of time pass. Ask them what they do while that time is passing (how they are helping prep the town outside of the quests.
What this accomplishes is threefold:
They are prepping the town as desired.
They are ACTIVELY prepping it in fun ways with these side quests while not having to spend as much time on the more tedious, less fun kind of prep work.
Once there is no attack, at the very least they won't feel like they spent hours doing something kind of bland just for no payoff. Instead, they'll have actually adventured, explored, and fought over those hours and will likely be less scorned.
Regardless, you want to make sure to have something else planned. They're expecting a fight, but it doesn't need to be a fight. It does need to be SOMETHING though. For example, maybe a scout from the settlement announces a large group of people on the horizon headed for the settlement. Everyone goes into high alert, taking their places and manning defenses as prepared over the last two weeks. Everyone is on edge. Describe the air of tension, the suddenly fearful thoughts going through the minds of the brave settlers who are standing side-by-side with the adventurers to defend their homes. Describe the small army of people approaching in the distance, their silhouettes bobbing as they march for the settlement...
Only it's not the bandit group. It's something else entirely. A group of refugees from a nearby settlement that was attacked by some menacing creature -- suddenly, there is a fun new adventure and the settlement's defenses might even come in handy if the creature attacks! Maybe the creature DOES attack, it is REALLY strong but the settlement manages to fend it off due to the defenses and it flees into the wilderness where the party must track it down. Maybe it's not refugees and is instead a group of nomads come with some tale and goods to trade, quests to hand out.
If you choose this route, you'll also need to come up with a way for the party to learn the King isn't coming. Also why he isn't coming (because even if the Duke doesn't tell, the King still knows no one returned surely?) Hell, maybe a rep from the king comes completely independent of the Duke's visit and informs them (again) about the "tax" but is so impressed by their defenses that he decides to take a more tactful approach. No threatening, but instead... Deals? Perhaps they could have a... friendly relationship. A mutually beneficial one wherein the settlement is left alone. In this way you have a lot of story to possibly explore plus it serves the purpose of the players knowing the settlement isn't under attack by the bandits for now, and even if they decline the man's offer you can let him depart in such a way that they don't think they are under IMMEDIATE threat.
Have the Duke not return to the king, but, come back with a larger force. He feels emboldened and plans to take over the town and then set up in opposition to the king. Or just enlarge his fiefdom. Or just doesn’t want to return in shame.
That way you give the players something I imagine they are looking forward to and don’t change your story too much
I guess what I was looking for is a way to give them what they want without getting rid of the complexity of the Duke's character and making him do EXACTLY what "Elite Goon #1" would do.
You can keep the Duke. The King can find out any number of ways that the humble villagers are fortifying their town. The village drunk (whom I assume you've already established) could wander the next town over for a jug and brag about it.
So the King shows up for the raid. He seems like drunk arrogant trash. Lee Marvin in Cat Ballou, and when you do Sergio Leone closeups on him, his eyes are bloodshot and his nose is starting to get rosaceous. A gunfighter past his prime. Mean as a snake, but deep down he knows his days are numbered. Not just his; his whole way of life! Justice is coming to the frontier! Your characters are only the start. Soon there'll be lawyers and judges and paternity suits and everything he went feral to avoid! So Tiny Town's gotta go.
And then you do the fight and the good guys win and the King runs away, but now he's badly wounded, as a leader. And then they can team up with the Duke to finish him off.
I guess what I was looking for is a way to give them what they want without getting rid of the complexity of the Duke's character and making him do EXACTLY what "Elite Goon #1" would do.
You can keep the Duke. The King can find out any number of ways that the humble villagers are fortifying their town. The village drunk (whom I assume you've already established) could wander the next town over for a jug and brag about it.
So the King shows up for the raid. He seems like drunk arrogant trash. Lee Marvin in Cat Ballou, and when you do Sergio Leone closeups on him, his eyes are bloodshot and his nose is starting to get rosaceous. A gunfighter past his prime. Mean as a snake, but deep down he knows his days are numbered. Not just his; his whole way of life! Justice is coming to the frontier! Your characters are only the start. Soon there'll be lawyers and judges and paternity suits and everything he went feral to avoid! So Tiny Town's gotta go.
And then you do the fight and the good guys win and the King runs away, but now he's badly wounded, as a leader. And then they can team up with the Duke to finish him off.
Kinda Love this lol
This is EXACTLY the feel I was going for with the King. A terrifying tyrant of a man who in his prime united all the bandits of the area, but now has grown complacent in his wealth. But deep down there's still that powerful terrible man who started this whole issue.
The current "Arc" of my campaign is kinda a mix between Magnificent 7/The Seven Samurai and the Pathfinder module Kingmaker with the "Desert King" (bandit king) being based on the "Stag Lord"
His Duke, who he knows has harbored resentment and ambition, goes to a town and disappears, and soon the town appears to be becoming fortified. The king might think that the Duke has claimed the town and is building himself up to challenge him. A steady stream of deserters make their way to the town, where they are mistaken for mercenaries who are "here to join". Some might twig but they are with their buddies and getting paid from the town treasury, and want a shot at overthrowing the king.
The party finds themselves being given an army to defend against the Duke, who's not really coming. The King then arrives with his army, the two armies recognize each other and they realise that the Duke isn't even involved. Then you can decide whether the "mercenaries" prefer their new leaders or their old one, which could turn this into an "Escape your own fortress" situation for the players, or a pitched battle between the king and the deserters. Depending on how it goes, the king might gain a fortified town to rule from.
Players of my campaign! (you know who I'm talking to!) Don't read!!
That being said! Currently in the story, The party have just become residents of a brand new settlement in a wild frontier and they learned on their first day that there is a local bandit "King" who demands taxes from his "subjects". On their first day in the settlement, the "Duke" of bandits came to town with some goonies looking to collect and the party pretty much said "F*** off" The Duke fled, the party defeated goonies leaving one alive for questioning.
Goonie #3 told them (with self preservation in mind) that if the King learns that the Duke and his "tax collectors" didn't return, The little settlement would be leveled to "Set an example" Goonie #3 is under the impression that the Duke fled to tell the King, but in reality, the Duke is fed up with the King and has pretty much seen this last complication as a "F*** it, I'm done" kind of thing.
The party is under the impression that the Goonie #3 NPC is an all knowing proxy for the DM and his word must be law so they're all ASSUMING that in the exact time it takes for traveling to the Bandit King's "castle", the Duke is going to arrive with forces to take down the settlement.
In short, He isn't. But the whole party (in character and out of character) are playing with the ASSUMPTION that he DEFINITELY is coming. (asking questions like "How many days until they attack" rather than "how many days since the duke fled").
What I'm concerned about is that since they have about 2 weeks of time before their assumed attack is happening, they're going to spend the WHOLE session prepping the town for attack, making traps, training civilians and waiting out days without doing anything only for the day to come and me as a DM be like "Nothing happens".
While this makes sense from a realism/story point of view, its not fun (for anyone) to have a whole 4 hour evening of game wasted prepping for an encounter that didn't happen.
So I guess my question is: Should I go the route intended and having the Duke NOT show up making them seek him out and find out why. OR have him show up in town as they've assumed to avoid their planning going to waste?
OR third option: OTHER?
I'd suggest throwing in some doubt on goonie #3's testimony. You could have another small group of bandits come into town for some carousing. Presumably there is a bar/tavern in town? I'd probably do this about a week after the last band arrived in town. This group could have different information.
Alternatively, the "king" decided that since the duke is overdue - perhaps he didn't make a rendezvous where he was expected to hand over the taxes to a group heading back to the "castle". That group has now headed off working backward along the route the duke was supposed to take wondering if he has run off with the taxes himself or been waylaid.
The king could have a network of pigeons/birds to carry messages or alternatively some low level hedge mages hidden around that handle communications for the gang. These spies could have reported something and the duke is already responding. They may know that it was the characters that caused the problem and not the town itself.
Also, making an example of a whole town is actually very bad for business ... no town = no taxes ... the king would be much better off making an example of only the town leadership for example - destroying the town makes no sense from a tax maximization perspective and if you think about it, that is all the bandit king likely cares about. You could pass a note to one of the PCs maybe based on an insight, investigation or an intelligence check indicating that this aspect of goonie #3s story may not make that much sense when you spend some time thinking about it. It could be that is what he heard the king say but that doesn't mean it is what the king would do (though it may depend on what sort of "king" this bandit leader might be - if he is an evil tyrant then destroying a village might be all in a days work but if he is trying to maximize his income - a few examples should do just as well).
I'm going to assume respondents don't need spoilers. You're all on your honor.
I mean, if I just had The Magnificent Seven fall into my lap, I'd roll with it. What was your alternative idea of how this would go? The Bandit King isn't going to be super-cool with the situation when he does find out. If the dude's coming, he may as well come before your players dig a big moat around the town and recast the church bell into a cannon or something.
Actually, that'd be pretty cool, if the Bandit King watched your guys put up a motte-and-bailey fortress in two weeks and offered to team up with them.
Thanks! I like the idea of a second group of goonies coming through with different info!
as for the "destroying the town" Thing, The "King" has recently changed a lot. One of the reasons for the Duke deciding to leave is that the King isn't the same charismatic genius as he used to be when he united the bandits. He's grown drunk with power as well as LITERALLY drunk, "seeing most of the world through the bottom of a bottle". So while he USED to be about maxing profit, he's become more arrogant and rash.
I have an encounter idea for if they seek the duke out that COULD lead to them getting him (at least partially) on their side to overthrow the King, but it would require them seeking him out rather than waiting around town lol
This campaign is also Western themed... >.>
Several of my players have actually mentioned the movie by name in their plans lol
I guess what I was looking for is a way to give them what they want without getting rid of the complexity of the Duke's character and making him do EXACTLY what "Elite Goon #1" would do.
How do the townsfolk feel about the PCs fighting off the bandits? Do they see the PCs as liberators, or do they see the PCs actions as bringing down the King's wrath upon them needlessly?
Perhaps there is a small percentage of townsfolk who are content with paying taxes to avoid confrontation. They may send word to the King. They could sneak in bandits to hamper the PCs efforts, or there may already be a group of the King's supporters in town posing as simple townsfolk who will fight back against the PCs or sabotage their efforts.
The town leaders may become more and more anxious as the final day approaches and try to rally the people against the PCs in hopes of avoiding attack.
The King's lack of action towards the PCs fighting back is seen as a sign of weakness by the other towns in the King's territory sparking a major revolt or even an invasion by a rival bandit group.
Good Luck!
My players basically run such a settlement in my campaign. They also spent a considerable amount of time prepping the defenses, but I actually turned it into multiple sessions. What I did was have some downtime (for me it was a month each time, but you obviously don't have that much time so it'd be days). An unrelated quest pops up (make it related to the defense building somehow, such as finding additional supplies, getting rare herbs from dangerous places for medicines, recruiting a traveling band of fighters who will help for a favor returned) demanding their attention, they address it, then have a few more days of time pass. Ask them what they do while that time is passing (how they are helping prep the town outside of the quests.
What this accomplishes is threefold:
Regardless, you want to make sure to have something else planned. They're expecting a fight, but it doesn't need to be a fight. It does need to be SOMETHING though. For example, maybe a scout from the settlement announces a large group of people on the horizon headed for the settlement. Everyone goes into high alert, taking their places and manning defenses as prepared over the last two weeks. Everyone is on edge. Describe the air of tension, the suddenly fearful thoughts going through the minds of the brave settlers who are standing side-by-side with the adventurers to defend their homes. Describe the small army of people approaching in the distance, their silhouettes bobbing as they march for the settlement...
Only it's not the bandit group. It's something else entirely. A group of refugees from a nearby settlement that was attacked by some menacing creature -- suddenly, there is a fun new adventure and the settlement's defenses might even come in handy if the creature attacks! Maybe the creature DOES attack, it is REALLY strong but the settlement manages to fend it off due to the defenses and it flees into the wilderness where the party must track it down. Maybe it's not refugees and is instead a group of nomads come with some tale and goods to trade, quests to hand out.
If you choose this route, you'll also need to come up with a way for the party to learn the King isn't coming. Also why he isn't coming (because even if the Duke doesn't tell, the King still knows no one returned surely?) Hell, maybe a rep from the king comes completely independent of the Duke's visit and informs them (again) about the "tax" but is so impressed by their defenses that he decides to take a more tactful approach. No threatening, but instead... Deals? Perhaps they could have a... friendly relationship. A mutually beneficial one wherein the settlement is left alone. In this way you have a lot of story to possibly explore plus it serves the purpose of the players knowing the settlement isn't under attack by the bandits for now, and even if they decline the man's offer you can let him depart in such a way that they don't think they are under IMMEDIATE threat.
Have the Duke not return to the king, but, come back with a larger force. He feels emboldened and plans to take over the town and then set up in opposition to the king. Or just enlarge his fiefdom. Or just doesn’t want to return in shame.
That way you give the players something I imagine they are looking forward to and don’t change your story too much
You can keep the Duke. The King can find out any number of ways that the humble villagers are fortifying their town. The village drunk (whom I assume you've already established) could wander the next town over for a jug and brag about it.
So the King shows up for the raid. He seems like drunk arrogant trash. Lee Marvin in Cat Ballou, and when you do Sergio Leone closeups on him, his eyes are bloodshot and his nose is starting to get rosaceous. A gunfighter past his prime. Mean as a snake, but deep down he knows his days are numbered. Not just his; his whole way of life! Justice is coming to the frontier! Your characters are only the start. Soon there'll be lawyers and judges and paternity suits and everything he went feral to avoid! So Tiny Town's gotta go.
And then you do the fight and the good guys win and the King runs away, but now he's badly wounded, as a leader. And then they can team up with the Duke to finish him off.
Kinda Love this lol
This is EXACTLY the feel I was going for with the King. A terrifying tyrant of a man who in his prime united all the bandits of the area, but now has grown complacent in his wealth. But deep down there's still that powerful terrible man who started this whole issue.
The current "Arc" of my campaign is kinda a mix between Magnificent 7/The Seven Samurai and the Pathfinder module Kingmaker with the "Desert King" (bandit king) being based on the "Stag Lord"
Another thing to consider is what the king sees:
His Duke, who he knows has harbored resentment and ambition, goes to a town and disappears, and soon the town appears to be becoming fortified. The king might think that the Duke has claimed the town and is building himself up to challenge him. A steady stream of deserters make their way to the town, where they are mistaken for mercenaries who are "here to join". Some might twig but they are with their buddies and getting paid from the town treasury, and want a shot at overthrowing the king.
The party finds themselves being given an army to defend against the Duke, who's not really coming. The King then arrives with his army, the two armies recognize each other and they realise that the Duke isn't even involved. Then you can decide whether the "mercenaries" prefer their new leaders or their old one, which could turn this into an "Escape your own fortress" situation for the players, or a pitched battle between the king and the deserters. Depending on how it goes, the king might gain a fortified town to rule from.
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