What would the stats look like for a fat, inflexible, non-agile person with excellent fine motor skills (e.g. ability to pick locks)?
Why do we put these concepts into the same stat, DEX? I know we need to simplify down the complexity of real life to something manageable, but it bothers me that I can't represent this character with the standard stats.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
Some other games have for instance both Agility and Dexterity as stats, D&D don't. As you say, that's a result of how this game simplify things.
To solve your 'specific' problem, you could consider to allow the player to use another stat for lockpicking. Intelligence would probably be my first choice, but Wisdom would also work OK I suppose.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
^^ This right here. That's what being a DM is all about, not just someone to enforce mechanics.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
^^ This right here. That's what being a DM is all about, not just someone to enforce mechanics.
How do you set a lower initiative for a character?
Seems to me the whole point of ability scores is so that you *don't* have to set different DCs for every character trying a thing. The DC describes the thing. The ability scores describe your ability. The modified roll combines the two.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
^^ This right here. That's what being a DM is all about, not just someone to enforce mechanics.
How do you set a lower initiative for a character?
Seems to me the whole point of ability scores is so that you *don't* have to set different DCs for every character trying a thing. The DC describes the thing. The ability scores describe your ability. The modified roll combines the two.
Disadvantage on Initiative checks. It's not like you are punishing the player... this is EXACTLY what they are asking for.
And you don't have to necessarily set a different DC, just use the binary Advantage/Disadvantage that is already available to you.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
^^ This right here. That's what being a DM is all about, not just someone to enforce mechanics.
How do you set a lower initiative for a character?
Seems to me the whole point of ability scores is so that you *don't* have to set different DCs for every character trying a thing. The DC describes the thing. The ability scores describe your ability. The modified roll combines the two.
Disadvantage on Initiative checks. It's not like you are punishing the player... this is EXACTLY what they are asking for.
And you don't have to necessarily set a different DC, just use the binary Advantage/Disadvantage that is already available to you.
Initiative is not just a physical thing, it is a mental thing, sensing danger, figuring out what to do. I would let the player roll initiative as normal he has instinctually just got the draw on the situation.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
^^ This right here. That's what being a DM is all about, not just someone to enforce mechanics.
How do you set a lower initiative for a character?
Seems to me the whole point of ability scores is so that you *don't* have to set different DCs for every character trying a thing. The DC describes the thing. The ability scores describe your ability. The modified roll combines the two.
Disadvantage on Initiative checks. It's not like you are punishing the player... this is EXACTLY what they are asking for.
And you don't have to necessarily set a different DC, just use the binary Advantage/Disadvantage that is already available to you.
But why do it this way? Having to apply many special modifiers, forever, for that PC sounds really annoying.
Can you discuss why this would be better than simply overriding the characters sleight of hand? Dex is used for a lot, and almost all those things are things this character would be bad at. This character only would be good at things that involve manipulating small things with their hands. So having an overridden sleight of hand, coupled with making sure to do lock picking checks with sleight of hand, sounds easy and perfect.
I'm not worried about punishing the player. It just sounds a bit harder than the other way.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
^^ This right here. That's what being a DM is all about, not just someone to enforce mechanics.
How do you set a lower initiative for a character?
Seems to me the whole point of ability scores is so that you *don't* have to set different DCs for every character trying a thing. The DC describes the thing. The ability scores describe your ability. The modified roll combines the two.
Disadvantage on Initiative checks. It's not like you are punishing the player... this is EXACTLY what they are asking for.
And you don't have to necessarily set a different DC, just use the binary Advantage/Disadvantage that is already available to you.
But why do it this way? Having to apply many special modifiers, forever, for that PC sounds really annoying.
Can you discuss why this would be better than simply overriding the characters sleight of hand? Dex is used for a lot, and almost all those things are things this character would be bad at. This character only would be good at things that involve manipulating small things with their hands. So having an overridden sleight of hand, coupled with making sure to do lock picking checks with sleight of hand, sounds easy and perfect.
I'm not worried about punishing the player. It just sounds a bit harder than the other way.
Because if over time the player decides to make his character fitter, if part of the journey is shedding weight etc at some point he will need to be adjusted without making him wait for his attribute increases. Also Dex for a rogue is used for so many other things, forcing the player to take a low dex stat means they become worse at using a crossbow (which they should not be penalised for for their weight) or for rolling initiative, So either I have to buff those 2 proficiencies as well, or, me as a DM can enjoy roleplaying out the challenges this player has, I come up with most of my DC's on the fly anyway it isn't hard to simply add to a DC for this particular instance for this character :), as it is I tend to tweak alot of my DC's depending on the player who is attempting a thing if it makes sense that someone would be good at something more then someone else but the stats don't show that (mainly social engagements or things like knowing information etc). So it is simply an extension for me of a thing I already do.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
^^ This right here. That's what being a DM is all about, not just someone to enforce mechanics.
How do you set a lower initiative for a character?
Seems to me the whole point of ability scores is so that you *don't* have to set different DCs for every character trying a thing. The DC describes the thing. The ability scores describe your ability. The modified roll combines the two.
Disadvantage on Initiative checks. It's not like you are punishing the player... this is EXACTLY what they are asking for.
And you don't have to necessarily set a different DC, just use the binary Advantage/Disadvantage that is already available to you.
But why do it this way? Having to apply many special modifiers, forever, for that PC sounds really annoying.
Can you discuss why this would be better than simply overriding the characters sleight of hand? Dex is used for a lot, and almost all those things are things this character would be bad at. This character only would be good at things that involve manipulating small things with their hands. So having an overridden sleight of hand, coupled with making sure to do lock picking checks with sleight of hand, sounds easy and perfect.
I'm not worried about punishing the player. It just sounds a bit harder than the other way.
I would do it this way because that is exactly what Disadvantage is for, and it’s not “many special modifiers”, it’s one simple mechanic that the player can “decide” to use when I call for a DEX ability - it’s all in his hands. As the DM I no longer have to even think about it. You can do it however you would like, and no way is better than the other, I’m only stating what I would do in this situation based on the type of DM that I am and the kind of game I run... I am not you however, and I’d never tell someone “what you should do”, only “what I would do” (I have a wife for that).
But man, I’m not discounting your idea either. In the past (40 years playing) I’m sure I’ve done something exactly the way you are describing. I’m just giving other options using defined mechanics - you never know when a simple houseruled change like this can slap you in the face, so it’s good to have other ideas.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
^^ This right here. That's what being a DM is all about, not just someone to enforce mechanics.
How do you set a lower initiative for a character?
Seems to me the whole point of ability scores is so that you *don't* have to set different DCs for every character trying a thing. The DC describes the thing. The ability scores describe your ability. The modified roll combines the two.
Disadvantage on Initiative checks. It's not like you are punishing the player... this is EXACTLY what they are asking for.
And you don't have to necessarily set a different DC, just use the binary Advantage/Disadvantage that is already available to you.
But why do it this way? Having to apply many special modifiers, forever, for that PC sounds really annoying.
Can you discuss why this would be better than simply overriding the characters sleight of hand? Dex is used for a lot, and almost all those things are things this character would be bad at. This character only would be good at things that involve manipulating small things with their hands. So having an overridden sleight of hand, coupled with making sure to do lock picking checks with sleight of hand, sounds easy and perfect.
I'm not worried about punishing the player. It just sounds a bit harder than the other way.
I would do it this way because that is exactly what Disadvantage is for, and it’s not “many special modifiers”, it’s one simple mechanic that the player can “decide” to use when I call for a DEX ability - it’s all in his hands. As the DM I no longer have to even think about it. You can do it however you would like, and no way is better than the other, I’m only stating what I would do in this situation based on the type of DM that I am and the kind of game I run... I am not you however, and I’d never tell someone “what you should do”, only “what I would do” (I have a wife for that).
But man, I’m not discounting your idea either. In the past (40 years playing) I’m sure I’ve done something exactly the way you are describing. I’m just giving other options using defined mechanics - you never know when a simple houseruled change like this can slap you in the face, so it’s good to have other ideas.
Advantage and disadvantage are already overused in DnD it’s why as a DM when I give dm inspiration it is a D6 to add to any roll as opposed to advantage.
It looks like you've figured things out with the skill customization options. I'd also maybe not make him a rogue since almost all the class features speak to mobility and the player wants their physique to be an impediment to all that. I think a poorly made fighter might be the way to go, but not sure what to sub them into.
My only concern is you got a PC who's good at _one thing_. I mean if your game world is full of locks, like to the degree where the rest of the party is always losing their keys to their own places so need the PC's services and they never know the password to the coolest speakeasy taverns so have to break in through the back rooms, I can see the player being more integral. But really, when the player isn't picking locks, what do they do when the characters are adventuring? What does the party think about their keyring being a potential combat liability?
Back to classing, I'm thinking "Champion" might be the route to go. Since the character is being built suboptimally as a fighter, the champion is basically more an "underhanded" fighter, when they have to fight, who occasionally gets a "lucky shot" in at the improved critical. The remarkable athlete reflects an a sort of underbelly dwelling character who's adapted to saving their own skin without going full on Rogue mobility. Just thinking out loud.
I'm also thinking if the PC is building a "clever" character, restat the tools to INT. Sure IRL most lock picking (that's not using automated tools) is an act of manual dexterity and or finesse once you know the common operating procedures for most lock mechanisms. However, I could see a lock pick who's more a puzzle master safecracker type, the person who's brought into deal with sophisticated vault mechanisms and the like where the real challenge isn't working the tools but figuring out how the lock works in the first place. If that's your guy, I'd opt for the alternate ability checks proposed in the DMG.
What would the stats look like for a fat, inflexible, non-agile person with excellent fine motor skills (e.g. ability to pick locks)?
Why do we put these concepts into the same stat, DEX? I know we need to simplify down the complexity of real life to something manageable, but it bothers me that I can't represent this character with the standard stats.
How do others deal with this, if at all?
Expertise with Thieves Tools.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
As a DM this is totally something I would let my player roleplay out by setting much higher DCs for anything physical that needed a dex roll (dodging etc) and then lowering the dc for things requiring nimble hands.
Some other games have for instance both Agility and Dexterity as stats, D&D don't. As you say, that's a result of how this game simplify things.
To solve your 'specific' problem, you could consider to allow the player to use another stat for lockpicking. Intelligence would probably be my first choice, but Wisdom would also work OK I suppose.
Ludo ergo sum!
I'd go for Sleight of Hand checks with proficiency instead of pure Dex checks for lockpicking + the proficiency/expertise with Thieves Tools.
I'm not seeing the issue. Someone with excellent motor skills is dexterous, and being fat has little relevance to that.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
The issue is that this player doesn’t want his character to be good at dodging, or acrobatics etc.
I will say that dex is also used for shooting (guessing your going to not be getting up close)
Actually that's perfect. I just realized d&dbeyond lets you customize a skill. So I can set DEX low and sleight of hand high.
Thanks!
^^ This right here.
That's what being a DM is all about, not just someone to enforce mechanics.
...cryptographic randomness!
How do you set a lower initiative for a character?
Seems to me the whole point of ability scores is so that you *don't* have to set different DCs for every character trying a thing. The DC describes the thing. The ability scores describe your ability. The modified roll combines the two.
In my opinion that's easily accomplished by simply not picking proficiency in that skill and foregoing the use of features like Uncanny Dodge/Evasion.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Disadvantage on Initiative checks.
It's not like you are punishing the player... this is EXACTLY what they are asking for.
And you don't have to necessarily set a different DC, just use the binary Advantage/Disadvantage that is already available to you.
...cryptographic randomness!
Initiative is not just a physical thing, it is a mental thing, sensing danger, figuring out what to do. I would let the player roll initiative as normal he has instinctually just got the draw on the situation.
You're welcome.
But why do it this way? Having to apply many special modifiers, forever, for that PC sounds really annoying.
Can you discuss why this would be better than simply overriding the characters sleight of hand? Dex is used for a lot, and almost all those things are things this character would be bad at. This character only would be good at things that involve manipulating small things with their hands. So having an overridden sleight of hand, coupled with making sure to do lock picking checks with sleight of hand, sounds easy and perfect.
I'm not worried about punishing the player. It just sounds a bit harder than the other way.
Because if over time the player decides to make his character fitter, if part of the journey is shedding weight etc at some point he will need to be adjusted without making him wait for his attribute increases. Also Dex for a rogue is used for so many other things, forcing the player to take a low dex stat means they become worse at using a crossbow (which they should not be penalised for for their weight) or for rolling initiative, So either I have to buff those 2 proficiencies as well, or, me as a DM can enjoy roleplaying out the challenges this player has, I come up with most of my DC's on the fly anyway it isn't hard to simply add to a DC for this particular instance for this character :), as it is I tend to tweak alot of my DC's depending on the player who is attempting a thing if it makes sense that someone would be good at something more then someone else but the stats don't show that (mainly social engagements or things like knowing information etc). So it is simply an extension for me of a thing I already do.
I would do it this way because that is exactly what Disadvantage is for, and it’s not “many special modifiers”, it’s one simple mechanic that the player can “decide” to use when I call for a DEX ability - it’s all in his hands. As the DM I no longer have to even think about it.
You can do it however you would like, and no way is better than the other, I’m only stating what I would do in this situation based on the type of DM that I am and the kind of game I run... I am not you however, and I’d never tell someone “what you should do”, only “what I would do” (I have a wife for that).
But man, I’m not discounting your idea either. In the past (40 years playing) I’m sure I’ve done something exactly the way you are describing. I’m just giving other options using defined mechanics - you never know when a simple houseruled change like this can slap you in the face, so it’s good to have other ideas.
...cryptographic randomness!
Advantage and disadvantage are already overused in DnD it’s why as a DM when I give dm inspiration it is a D6 to add to any roll as opposed to advantage.
It looks like you've figured things out with the skill customization options. I'd also maybe not make him a rogue since almost all the class features speak to mobility and the player wants their physique to be an impediment to all that. I think a poorly made fighter might be the way to go, but not sure what to sub them into.
My only concern is you got a PC who's good at _one thing_. I mean if your game world is full of locks, like to the degree where the rest of the party is always losing their keys to their own places so need the PC's services and they never know the password to the coolest speakeasy taverns so have to break in through the back rooms, I can see the player being more integral. But really, when the player isn't picking locks, what do they do when the characters are adventuring? What does the party think about their keyring being a potential combat liability?
Back to classing, I'm thinking "Champion" might be the route to go. Since the character is being built suboptimally as a fighter, the champion is basically more an "underhanded" fighter, when they have to fight, who occasionally gets a "lucky shot" in at the improved critical. The remarkable athlete reflects an a sort of underbelly dwelling character who's adapted to saving their own skin without going full on Rogue mobility. Just thinking out loud.
I'm also thinking if the PC is building a "clever" character, restat the tools to INT. Sure IRL most lock picking (that's not using automated tools) is an act of manual dexterity and or finesse once you know the common operating procedures for most lock mechanisms. However, I could see a lock pick who's more a puzzle master safecracker type, the person who's brought into deal with sophisticated vault mechanisms and the like where the real challenge isn't working the tools but figuring out how the lock works in the first place. If that's your guy, I'd opt for the alternate ability checks proposed in the DMG.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I would change the ability score for Sleight of Hand for that character specifically to Intelligence.
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