So a player touches and sticks to the mimic. Got it, it gets disadvantage. But what about if the mimic then reaches out and smacks the same grappled player? Does it get "double grappled? If so, what happens to the player? Do they roll one check to escape or two?
Each grappling by the Adhesive would have their own duration (until escaped)
Conditions: If multiple effects impose the same condition on a creature, each instance of the condition has its own duration, but the condition’s effects don't get
So a player touches and sticks to the mimic. Got it, it gets disadvantage. But what about if the mimic then reaches out and smacks the same grappled player? Does it get "double grappled? If so, what happens to the player? Do they roll one check to escape or two?
Thanks!
No, there's no "double grappled" - the player was grappled before and remains grappled after. One check to escape.
If you want to homebrew an effect to make the mimic more dangerous when this happens, you could copy a giant constrictor snake, and have "double grappled" be restrained. This is a very, very powerful upgrade, though.
FWIW I found this ruling as a guidance from Jeremy Crawford twitter;
@armando_dovalif you're grappled by multiple creatures, do you use a separate action to escape from each?
@JeremyECrawford As DM, I allow a grappled creature to make one escape attempt against multiple grapplers, but it must overcome each DC to free itself.
A mimic has multiple ways or source to grapple being adhesive and also having pseudopod it can launch and grapple with it. So it can effectively make multiple grapples, just like a creature with multiple appendages can multi-grapple. And a creature can suffer from multiple grapple at the same time until escaping each of them.
@JeremyECrawford As DM, I allow a grappled creature to make one escape attempt against multiple grapplers, but it must overcome each DC to free itself.
This seems like the most reasonable rule -- must break the 'best' grapple.
A mimic has multiple ways or source to grapple being adhesive and also having pseudopod it can launch and grapple with it. So it can effectively make multiple grapples, just like a creature with multiple appendages can multi-grapple. And a creature can suffer from multiple grapple at the same time until escaping each of them.
This makes a lot less sense, otherwise a player with two free hands could claim to have double-grappled an opponent (since each hand can make a grapple attack).
For the mimic, my sense is that it has one grapple, and the adhesive is the reason why breaking free is at disadvantage.
This makes a lot less sense, otherwise a player with two free hands could claim to have double-grappled an opponent (since each hand can make a grapple attack).
For the mimic, my sense is that it has one grapple, and the adhesive is the reason why breaking free is at disadvantage.
A PC can definitly makes two grapples using each of it's free hands, on either the same target or different ones
A PC can definitly makes two grapples using each of it's free hands, on either the same target or different ones
Yes, but the point is that if a PC "double-grappled" a monster, it would still be only one roll to escape. *Maybe* Probably the PC gets to make two check rolls and pick the highest? But I don't think it requires two escape attempts (at least that's how I read Crawford's comment).
I can see an argument that says if 5 PCs pile on to a monster then it should be 'more grappled' than if one PC grappled, but I think that's covered by having to break free of the best of 5 STR checks. For a mimic it's made harder because the DC is set to a fixed value, hence why I assume it's made at disadvantage.
A PC can definitly makes two grapples using each of it's free hands, on either the same target or different ones
Yes, but the point is that if a PC "double-grappled" a monster, it would still be only one roll to escape. *Maybe* Probably the PC gets to make two check rolls and pick the highest? But I don't think it requires two escape attempts (at least that's how I read Crawford's comment).
A creature can suffer from multiple grapple at the same time until escaping each of them. JC handle it this way but from a RAW perspective, you can be multi-grappled and if multiple effects impose the same condition on a creature (such as grappled) each instance of the condition has its own duration. (until escaped)
Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
The Grappled Attack action is not included in such a game effects exemple. You can suffer multi-grappled as shown if you suffer from more than one identical conditions you are not more grappled, but every condition every instance has it's own duration.
I am firmly in the camp of houseruling one grapple per target.
I'm not even sure yet that it needs a house rule. It seems to fit well under the "Combining *** Effects" rules, and certainly fits well under their philosophy.
The Combining Game Effects also doesn't remove all but one similar effect, it simply doesn't increase potency while durations overlapp, similar texte exist in the Conditions section.
Basically when two or more game features have the same name (Adhesive) , only the effects of one of them—the most potent one (Grappled)—apply while the durations of the effects overlap (Untill Escaped).
It means you can suffer from the same named game effect or conditions, simply it won't be more potent while their durations overlapp.
The Combining Game Effects also doesn't remove all but one similar effect, it simply doesn't increase potency while durations overlapp, similar texte exist in the Conditions section.
Basically when two or more game features have the same name (Adhesive) , only the effects of one of them—the most potent one (Grappled)—apply while the durations of the effects overlap (Untill Escaped).
It means you can suffer from the same named game effect or conditions, simply it won't be more potent while their durations overlapp.
That’s why I house rule that the most potent grapple is the only one with a duration. The rest do not endure in the background.
This makes it incredibly simple to play grappling characters and battles without getting too granular. I do not use this method for spell effects, which overlap durations. Otherwise, permanent effects could be overridden by minor effects to dispel magical effects.
I use it only for grapple because it simplifies the system and prevents other shenanigans at my table, while not reducing the potential for grappling builds.
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Hi there,
So a player touches and sticks to the mimic. Got it, it gets disadvantage.
But what about if the mimic then reaches out and smacks the same grappled player? Does it get "double grappled? If so, what happens to the player? Do they roll one check to escape or two?
Thanks!
DM - And In The Darkness, Rot: The Sunless Citadel
DM - Our Little Lives Kept In Equipoise: Curse of Strahd
DM - Misprize Thou Not These Shadows That Belong: The Lost Mines of Phandelver
PC - Azzure - Tyranny of Dragons
Each grappling by the Adhesive would have their own duration (until escaped)
Conditions: If multiple effects impose the same condition on a creature, each instance of the condition has its own duration, but the condition’s effects don't get
No, there's no "double grappled" - the player was grappled before and remains grappled after. One check to escape.
If you want to homebrew an effect to make the mimic more dangerous when this happens, you could copy a giant constrictor snake, and have "double grappled" be restrained. This is a very, very powerful upgrade, though.
FWIW I found this ruling as a guidance from Jeremy Crawford twitter;
@armando_doval if you're grappled by multiple creatures, do you use a separate action to escape from each?
@JeremyECrawford As DM, I allow a grappled creature to make one escape attempt against multiple grapplers, but it must overcome each DC to free itself.
Wish it was more clear on the mimic page. Though grappled by two separate things seems right to me.
But maybe it’s that the adhesive leaves once the pseudopod appears? Then it’s only possible the pseudopod that can grapple?
DM - And In The Darkness, Rot: The Sunless Citadel
DM - Our Little Lives Kept In Equipoise: Curse of Strahd
DM - Misprize Thou Not These Shadows That Belong: The Lost Mines of Phandelver
PC - Azzure - Tyranny of Dragons
A mimic has multiple ways or source to grapple being adhesive and also having pseudopod it can launch and grapple with it. So it can effectively make multiple grapples, just like a creature with multiple appendages can multi-grapple. And a creature can suffer from multiple grapple at the same time until escaping each of them.
Huh. Just saw this thread! Late-comer necro time.
This seems like the most reasonable rule -- must break the 'best' grapple.
This makes a lot less sense, otherwise a player with two free hands could claim to have double-grappled an opponent (since each hand can make a grapple attack).
For the mimic, my sense is that it has one grapple, and the adhesive is the reason why breaking free is at disadvantage.
A PC can definitly makes two grapples using each of it's free hands, on either the same target or different ones
Yes, but the point is that if a PC "double-grappled" a monster, it would still be only one roll to escape.
*Maybe*Probably the PC gets to make two check rolls and pick the highest? But I don't think it requires two escape attempts (at least that's how I read Crawford's comment).I can see an argument that says if 5 PCs pile on to a monster then it should be 'more grappled' than if one PC grappled, but I think that's covered by having to break free of the best of 5 STR checks. For a mimic it's made harder because the DC is set to a fixed value, hence why I assume it's made at disadvantage.
A creature can suffer from multiple grapple at the same time until escaping each of them. JC handle it this way but from a RAW perspective, you can be multi-grappled and if multiple effects impose the same condition on a creature (such as grappled) each instance of the condition has its own duration. (until escaped)
Not 100% convinced. From DMG errata:
Combining Game Effects
Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
The Grappled Attack action is not included in such a game effects exemple. You can suffer multi-grappled as shown if you suffer from more than one identical conditions you are not more grappled, but every condition every instance has it's own duration.
I am firmly in the camp of houseruling one grapple per target. Any additional grapples are a contest to replace the original grapple.
From a former grappling player and also a DM, this saves so much effort and mental gymnastics trying to calculate all of these effects.
I'm not even sure yet that it needs a house rule. It seems to fit well under the "Combining *** Effects" rules, and certainly fits well under their philosophy.
The Combining Game Effects also doesn't remove all but one similar effect, it simply doesn't increase potency while durations overlapp, similar texte exist in the Conditions section.
Basically when two or more game features have the same name (Adhesive) , only the effects of one of them—the most potent one (Grappled)—apply while the durations of the effects overlap (Untill Escaped).
It means you can suffer from the same named game effect or conditions, simply it won't be more potent while their durations overlapp.
In this case, more potent would mean highest DC, I think.
That’s why I house rule that the most potent grapple is the only one with a duration. The rest do not endure in the background.
This makes it incredibly simple to play grappling characters and battles without getting too granular. I do not use this method for spell effects, which overlap durations. Otherwise, permanent effects could be overridden by minor effects to dispel magical effects.
I use it only for grapple because it simplifies the system and prevents other shenanigans at my table, while not reducing the potential for grappling builds.