So I've been having a bit of a problem in my game that I run. You see, the players tend to be very rude right to my NPCs faces, and yes I do mean that as a plural. It's happened on several occasions now where my players get in their face and talk back, smack talk, put them down, for no reason. At first I thought I would give them an outlet, a dumb dopey NPC. But they kept disrespecting other NPCs anyway, then I tried showing them their disrespect and rudeness can have consequences, still nothing!
I really don't know what to do anymore, I'm at my wit's end. The players are at a point in the story where if they don't get help from a group, a sponsor of sorts, their mission will fail. In short, they have to find where their enemies are located, but they don't have the resources to do it, but they keep being rude to the people who are trying to help them.
Some examples: They managed to lose the friendship of a ship captain by continually being rude to him, despite him helping them escape from what are essentially a militaristic force, and introduce them to an underground society of mages who have the resources to help them. They were disrespectful to that underground society of mages, particularly the higher ups because they asked them to do them a favor, I had to pay them hundreds of GP just for them to CONSIDER taking the job! Then, when they were doing the job, they were disrespectful to one of the people helping them, so much so that I genuinely, in character, considered him no longer helping them (I did anyway because otherwise I had no idea what to do).
Sorry that this has probably gone on way too long, I really just don't know what to do anymore and I could really use some help. I really love the players and the game and I want to keep running it, but like I said, I'm not sure what I should do. Do I just enforce stringent consequences? Any help/advice would be really appreciated!
Have the NPCs turn unfriendly towards them for starters. They may still maintain a business like relationship with the players, but nothing else, and they certainly wouldn’t do them any favors.
Have their demeanor turn nasty and rude in turn, too.
Whatever you do don’t “talk” to them about wishing they would play the game a different way just to satisfy you. Simply adapt your world to their behavior in game. Good luck!
Some examples: They managed to lose the friendship of a ship captain by continually being rude to him, despite him helping them escape from what are essentially a militaristic force, and introduce them to an underground society of mages who have the resources to help them. They were disrespectful to that underground society of mages, particularly the higher ups because they asked them to do them a favor, I had to pay them hundreds of GP just for them to CONSIDER taking the job! Then, when they were doing the job, they were disrespectful to one of the people helping them, so much so that I genuinely, in character, considered him no longer helping them (I did anyway because otherwise I had no idea what to do).
The ship captain drops them off at the nearest island. Or goes back toward the militaristic force and puts them in a rowboat.
The mages don't keep upping the offer. The PCs don't take the job. Then they see the consequences of that (whatever was supposed to happen, didn't happen, so the bad guy's plan advanced). And, yes, the person helping them should have left.
It can end up a bit difficult for you if you have people react to the way they're treated, since it will require you to improvise. But if you don't, then expect the PCs to keep doing what they're doing.
The other option is you just roll with it. They get a reputation as being jerks, and no one wants to work with them or help them with anything. Their missions, as a result, get harder -- no one tells them about the back door or the secret entrance. If that's the kind of characters they want to play, and the whole party is up for it, then that's what happens.
The above are some in-game options. But it's a bit tough from what you posted to tell if its an in game or out of game problem. It could be the real solution is to have a(nother) session 0 and explain that the kind of game they want to play is not the kind you want to DM, so you all need to work together as a group to come to some solution that makes everyone happy.
I just had a case in my last session with this where I was trying to introduce some potentially friendly NPCs to my well-in-need party of outlaws and runaways, but the party wasn't happy to be with them because the NPCs had some pretty hefty criminal records. They made it perfectly clear that they didn't want to be associated with the NPCs' crimes and were very forward about giving them the cold shoulder. Took plenty of opportunities to call out and insult the NPCs directly to their faces.
Rather than following the party around for no reason like kicked puppies, the NPCs decided to pick up and leave in the night while the party was debating their next move. The party was somewhat shocked to see them leave, especially since those NPCs had stolen a big haul from a heist. "We should have asked them for a cut of the haul!" the party exclaimed. Either way, I don't think the NPCs would have been so willing to give the party anything, considering that they didn't help much with any heisting nor did they condone it whatsoever in the first place.
Moral of the story is: NPCs ought to react like actual characters in a story rather than devices in a video game. It would be wisest to show the players the consequences of their interactions to remind them that they're playing with actual involved and invested characters that you're working hard to set up rather than socio-narrative punching bags you want them to bust through. My suggestion would be to try to set up a social encounter that almost requires the party to reconsider their social approach to characters in order to succeed (ball arcs have been PHENOMENAL tools for me to make sure my players are behaving themselves and acting like actual people).
Simply put, if they can't put two and two together to realize that the Golden Rule applies... you might be playing with a bunch of goofuses. :P Like, I'm also sorry but... I don't know how much more plainly you can say "y'all need to gain the trust of others in order to succeed" with the rate it seems that they're refusing to do just that. Maybe you need to give them a reminder about why it's important that they need to be mindful and respectful to the NPCs in order to succeed on this quest they're on? Maybe show them that time is running out and they don't got all of the time in the world to be screwing around treating NPCs like jokes.
(For what it's worth, I'll say I would have lost my mind by now if I were you dealing with the amount of disrespect towards any work you'd put into it; be sure just to let them know as well if it gets to be too much that it's taking a toll on your own personal feelings and it doesn't feel so nice to have your work dunked on like that... It's okay to be honest about that kinda stuff and have transparency at a table!)
It is the GM's responsibility to have the game world respond to the characters' actions.
There are consequences. You have to be harsh.
First, prices go up and merchants won't haggle. Haggling and discounts are for polite people - rude people pay PHB prices + 50% (or more).
Next, services are unavailable. The boat captain refuses to carry the party downriver. The smith says they can get their armour repaired somewhere else. The priest declines to remove the party's curses or diseases.
Finally, mission selection becomes restricted. The characters hear that the local duke is offering a magic sword in return for some task. When the characters inquire, they get flatly told, "no, this job is not offered to you."
In short, some of the tools and resources that characters have to overcome obstacles and finish missions are no longer available to them. They wil have to work harder to overcome problems (or, hopefully, realise their mistake and go through some character growth).
It sounds like subtlety will be lost on them, and that they need some immediate intervention.
Put in front of the party an NPC that will command respect, and if they don't receive it, they will be forced to endure extreme consequences.
Some potential ideas could be a governor, princess, or high-ranking nobility. Have them find out through some means ahead of time that this NPC has a zero tolerance policy for disrespect; you might even foreshadow what will happen to them if they disrespect this NPC. Then have them meet that NPC, or a close friend/relative of that NPC with said NPC present. I pretty much guarantee you that they'll continue their disrespectful patterns of behavior. Then have them experience those very real consequences. "You dare to disrespect me? I have heard of your errant tongues before. You will not find me so patient. Guards, handle these rats to the dungeons." More guards than the PCs can handle descend upon them to arrest them.
A demigod or archfey would be another great idea. They can cause some serious repercussions for the party. One example I've had recently is that one of my PCs was being disrespectful towards a demigoddess, a literal embodiment of an aspect of the actual effin sun. (Not a problem player at all, but the character had had a Bad Day.) The NPC demigoddess had been patient with this PC so far insofar that the demigoddess has been making a specific demand of her for awhile ("Find my siblings" "I'm working on it but other things have come up") and tolerating some mild disrespect up until that point. I forget the specific thing said, but whatever it was was clearly enough to anger this capricious goddess enough to take action. It just so happens that this PC is an artificer who has used this shard of the sun that the demigoddess is stuck in in order to fuel her armor and artifice weapons. So the demigoddess basically said, "I'm losing my patience, girl," and I had the player roll a d12. She rolled a 3. The character was immediately burned up to a crisp with radiant fire that healed as soon as it had come on, but dealt 3 points of permanent damage to the character's max HP. No long rests, greater restorations, remove curses, or even wishes could fix this, and I made that clear. It sobered the party up quite a bit. (Although has caused a somewhat problematic inter-party conflict where one member of the party is now adamant to get the shard away from this PC, and that PC adamantly refuses despite this lesson in humility for very good characterization reasons.) This is a level 6 party, so 3hp might not be much, but the absolute permanence - and the brutal way in which it occurred - really worked. (It didn't hurt that this PC, due to a homebrew race, is vulnerable to radiant damage, and I described the damage as a radiant burn.)
Another thing you can do is have one of the NPCs have had enough, and go out of their way to "help" the party - only to betray them in the worst way at the worst time, and make it clear at that betrayal that it was because they and their fellows had had enough disrespect.
You could also give one of them a homebrew magical cursed sentient item that acts like it tolerates whatever disrespect is thrown at them, but is actively screwing over the owner of the item. Don't give away the nature of this item - Identify, as a note, doesn't reveal curses - but keep a note, and make the effects happen fairly regularly. A sentient neutral sword, staff, wand, rapier, crystal, or whatever, which is "almost too good to not use!" or actually "too good to not use!" has it's own agenda, such as demanding of its holder to return it somewhere or to bring it to someone specific. When they inevitably keep using it without doing as it so politely requested, it might sap their strength (temporary reductions in max HP, or permanent ones if you really need to hit home like I did), negative modifiers to ability scores, checks, saving throws, attack rolls, or damage, or even turning back on the holder of the item ("You won't do what I ask, I won't do what you ask" and causes an attack that would otherwise hit an enemy to hit a nearby ally instead). And if they try to toss it in the bag of holding, have them make saving throws with a high DC or else they physically can't part with it. Do they chop off a hand, finger, arm, or pass the saving throw, and chuck the item into the ether? Have it haunt them worse than Annabelle. Do they put it in a bag of holding? Turn it into the Bag Man, a creature that exists in the interdimensional spaces of bags of holdings and really screws the party over - and you can even modify it to be worse if need be.
And if they really royally screw up, don't be afraid to have game-ending consequences. "Oh, you're... being disrespectful to the all-powerful mage offering you a quest, in his own tower? He guides you all into a room, and closes the door behind you. You hear it lock. Everything goes black. You find yourselves floating in a void, with no way out. Good game, folks, but that's the end of this story. The bad guy eventually conquers the world."
As the DM you present them a world. It is up to the party to solve the problems set before them. If they waste their resources by making enemies of the people around them, then they just have to solve the problem some other way. As a DM I wouldn't own their disrespect and keep giving them a way out of the consequences. If they keep it up long enough the campaign could come to an early end.
Some players play as if they are God's gift to the Material Plane. I don't have time for that.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Another thing you can do is have one of the NPCs have had enough, and go out of their way to "help" the party - only to betray them in the worst way at the worst time, and make it clear at that betrayal that it was because they and their fellows had had enough disrespect.
"Magwa understand English, very well." ... proceeds to trigger the worst ambush on the soldiers column and kills all but six of those present.
I think too many people try solve real world problems with ingame propositions. While it is totally possible that a player is really good at playing a rude, arrogant character, it is more likely the players are using your game to vent and act out in what they perceive as a no consequence theatre. Talk to your players and if this is not the case, continue below.
Do the players feel that the NPCs are show stealers, or are they feeling a railroad resentment? You imply that they need resources, they need support. Even if they do, they shouldn't be at the mercy of Organisation X. That makes it sounds like you are building a story around NPCs and not the characters. Sometimes it's as simple as letting the characters search out the allies they need under their own power and you still provide the same helpful NPCs, it's the semantics on how the characters get these allies that matters.
OP, I notice that you are invested in the story, but maybe the players aren't?
"I really don't know what to do anymore, I'm at my wit's end. The players are at a point in the story where if they don't get help from a group, a sponsor of sorts, their mission will fail. In short, they have to find where their enemies are located, but they don't have the resources to do it, but they keep being rude to the people who are trying to help them."
I would highly recommend you have a Q&A with your players about what they want in the game and maybe what you expect from them. Your expression of frustration points out that you are pushing them into a story that they aren't vested in. They don't care if the mission fails, you've pointed to it yourself. If they are fine with the game as built, let them run how they want.
Why not make their decisions matter? Forcing them to accept help is railroading. Making them follow your mission plan is taking away their agency. Suggesting a path, direction or course of action as the DM is help enough. If they seem to be struggling to make a decision, summarizing choices can make choosing easier. Should your PCs choose to not follow the MacGuffin into the terrible place of evil and allow your BBE to succeed and do nasty things to the world at large, so be it. Show them the consequences of their choice, make it matter. Conversely, when they decide to accomplish good things that are pleasant and helpful to the world, show them those consequences as well - the rewards and acceptance of the world at large.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
The first thing I thought when I looked at the topic line was "You make the npcs people worthy of the player's respect."
If your players won't do that with their characters, hold another session zero if you haven't done so already. Then talk to each player in private to find out what they really would like to play.
The first thing I thought when I looked at the topic line was "You make the npcs people worthy of the player's respect."
If your players won't do that with their characters, hold another session zero if you haven't done so already. Then talk to each player in private to find out what they really would like to play.
I second this; I feel that players rarely want "punching bag NPCs" if they can help it, and may resort to being goofy with characters because they feel awkward or uncomfortable trying to play their own characters towards those NPCs. Sometimes, you have to be careful about presenting your content as a challenge to see how ridiculous things can get without breaking anything. Mutual respect comes when people and characters know each other's boundaries and then are able to equally give and take between one another with those in mind. So don't just make stick-in-the-mud NPCs either; make NPCs that are clear about their boundaries and have a lot of potential to offer to the party (whether it's something material, experiential, interpersonal, etc.), but also try to make it clear on what effort or input might be needed in order to get that NPC to give whatever they've got.
Examples from what OP mentioned: a ship captain that will only tolerate somebody being onboard if they earn their stay or else force them to walk the plank (not sure if pirate fits your bill, but more drama is always fun to work with :P), the mages might point out a potential threat to the party if they refuse to accept the quest and show that their warnings are something to be heeded and thankful for (or else fulfill on your promises and hit them with the consequences), and if a helping hand is getting paid to help a bunch of imbeciles either let them walk and quit or ask the party to pony up more coin for their troubles or something of the sort.
I also want to second the motion that perhaps you need to evaluate and consider if your players and party have the right motivations and understand the power dynamics that are set. You might need to give them a kick in the pants to remind them that the stuff going on here is serious, and that they shouldn't be trying to negotiate a better hand on the path you have set for them. "Sure I'll save the world, but only for a million gold pieces" is not really the kind of precedent you want to be setting as a DM I feel... Try to help them make sense of what's realistic and not if you can; just because it's fantasy doesn't mean that people will handwave anything that's blatantly not going to fly. Even though the PCs may be important to the story you're telling, try to make sure they understand that they might not be so equally important in the grand scheme of the entire world.
I'm going to lay it out as I see it, because the immediately visible problem and the actual problem aren't always the same.
The surface problem
The players treat the world like their own personal playground, where they can act like complete jerks. This is frustrating for the DM.
Underlying problems
As a DM, it's actually really not fun to have to roleplay people being disrespectful and annoying to you all the time.
The players believe that they can rely on being the main characters to ensure that everything still happens as they want it.
If the DM doesn't allow the players to get away with it, the game falls off the map.
The actual problem, at its core:
The DM wants the players to play the game that they have planned.
The players are not invested in the goals or missions that they find themselves in, or the game that the DM has planned.
The players believe their characters are indestructible - and they are
Much of the advice here is to take the players head on at their own game in the most combative way possible - "Put your foot down as DM, and show them that your NPCs won't be disrespected!" This is usually very good advice - all of my NPCs react in ways I find legitimate. They are proud, they are flawed, they are mean, they are kind - they all react as individuals. But I am also blessed with players who understand their part of the contract, and that's where this DM is having issues:
The players are ignoring the part of the contract that says that the DM gets to have fun, the DM's preparation is valuable, and that the DM's role is not to simply facilitate whatever goofing around they feel like doing on the day.
What the players are really enjoying is free licence to act like complete asshats. They don't do that in real life, I expect. But now they feel like they are in Westworld - and many D&D players do this - and they can indulge all the bad things that they'd never do in the real world.
You do have two options. One option is, if you feel that the players are up to it, to say to them "Guys, I know its been fun but just be aware, from this point on the NPCs are going to react to you exactly as you deserve. If this means that nobody will give you a mission, take you on a ship, or whatever, then so be it." The second option - and the one I'd go for personally - is to treat them the same way you would Murder Hobos. You introduce a pair of NPCs many, many levels higher than the PCs and set them up to be allies, but don't make them friendly. Have them conduct themselves with a knowing, smirking confidence. Have them treat the PCs with distant courtesy. When the players take the bait, let the NPCs loose on them.
I'll offer this warning here: there is a reasonable chance that either of these options can end your game. If what the players enjoy is running around being jerks and you shut that down by hammering them into the ground with NPCs, then they may lose interest in the game. If you tell them that you don't enjoy designing NPCs only to be smart-mouthed by the players, they may feel chastised and lose interest in the game. But sometimes, it's better to end a game and find new players that to endlessly endure crappy player behaviour. I've done it myself, and spent 6 months trying to work with players who wanted to play in a way that disrespected the preparation I did, and it's just not worth it. DMs are in short supply; players are ten a penny.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I just looked back at the thread again. Second post said essentially the same thing I did, with fewer words. Sire Samuel lives up to his title, because that's what his answer was (Perfect).
I work in customer service and have to take the crap idiot and rude customers give to me with a polite "thank you for your feedback." If I was self employed I'd be able to respond in a more independent manner.
I'd live out my self-employed fantasy as DM. "Yes, sir, your feedback is appreciated. Now, get out of my shop. You want to speak to the manager? He thinks you're a dick. By the way, I'm the manager. Good luck finding a decent sword."
Just to add; it sounds to me that your players have a specific fantasy they like to live out in your game. It sounds like they like the idea of defying authority figures, which is understandable-- it's not like you get to do do it irl much. That puts you in a better position though as a DM: you know what your players like.
Maybe instead of trying to fix what they want, throw them a bone. Don't just give them a dopey NPC to mock, give them an a**hole corrupt authority figure that they can mock, defy, ignore orders, and eventually take down, while still being the heroes. Don't give them another NPC telling that to do, give them someone that you actively don't want them to listen to, telling them to do something you don't think they'll actually do, maybe even have them threaten the party like "if you don't do what I say then I'll make it very difficult for you to get work in this town ever again" etc. Make the behavior they're displaying work for you.
Maybe instead of trying to fix what they want, throw them a bone. Don't just give them a dopey NPC to mock, give them an a**hole corrupt authority figure that they can mock, defy, ignore orders, and eventually take down, while still being the heroes. Don't give them another NPC telling that to do, give them someone that you actively don't want them to listen to, telling them to do something you don't think they'll actually do, maybe even have them threaten the party like "if you don't do what I say then I'll make it very difficult for you to get work in this town ever again" etc. Make the behavior they're displaying work for you.
This is great advice in my opinion. It had actually come up quite by accident in one of our games. The basic story, an enemy was pitting us against the Lord's Alliance. We weren't enemies of the Alliance but, we were trying to help an ally escape that the Alliance thought was theirenemy. While the Alliance forces encountered our party on neutral ground, the enemy we were after mind controlled my fighter, who then proceeded to kill Alliance forces, including the nephew of the commanding officer. Despite proof of of all our claims and foiling many levels of a plot to incite division among the Factions(Lord's Alliance, Harpers, etc) this commander would just not give up his grudge. We had to spend many sessions outsmarting him, defending against slander that might damage our connections to other allies and other tactics instead of facing him head on. He was the regional head of the Lord's Alliance. Eventually, our credibility increased as did the power of our allies until someone finally directly ordered the commander to stand down and stay out of our way.
TLDR: We had an authority figure to act out against, and it was reasonable to do so. It was a great addition to the story.
Maybe instead of trying to fix what they want, throw them a bone. Don't just give them a dopey NPC to mock, give them an a**hole corrupt authority figure that they can mock, defy, ignore orders, and eventually take down, while still being the heroes. Don't give them another NPC telling that to do, give them someone that you actively don't want them to listen to, telling them to do something you don't think they'll actually do, maybe even have them threaten the party like "if you don't do what I say then I'll make it very difficult for you to get work in this town ever again" etc. Make the behavior they're displaying work for you.
This is great advice in my opinion. It had actually come up quite by accident in one of our games. The basic story, an enemy was pitting us against the Lord's Alliance. We weren't enemies of the Alliance but, we were trying to help an ally escape that the Alliance thought was theirenemy. While the Alliance forces encountered our party on neutral ground, the enemy we were after mind controlled my fighter, who then proceeded to kill Alliance forces, including the nephew of the commanding officer. Despite proof of of all our claims and foiling many levels of a plot to incite division among the Factions(Lord's Alliance, Harpers, etc) this commander would just not give up his grudge. We had to spend many sessions outsmarting him, defending against slander that might damage our connections to other allies and other tactics instead of facing him head on. He was the regional head of the Lord's Alliance. Eventually, our credibility increased as did the power of our allies until someone finally directly ordered the commander to stand down and stay out of our way.
TLDR: We had an authority figure to act out against, and it was reasonable to do so. It was a great addition to the story.
I don't think that CharlesThePlant's suggestion works for this situation.
What this does is lean into problematic player behaviour, and attempt to give it an 'out,' and is actually rewarding them for problematic player behaviour. Players who don't acknowledge that the DM plans the game, and that derailing it or acting like crazed goofballs is not fun for the DM, shouldn't be offered a pinata. The players simply don't respect the work that the DM has put into the game. You can't bypass the players being jerks to every important NPC in a game where NPC interaction is vital by giving them a punching bag. The more you allow the behaviour to flourish, the more it will gain strength.
One last potential option that occurred to me that could work: if the PCs want to live in a world where they are asshats to everyone, put them into a world where nobody cares what they think, nobody is trying to help them, and nobody has a quest for them. Turn the game into Survive Hell.
Throw the PCs into the Abyss somewhere. Make it clear that they have little food, and if they don't find a way out, they will perish simply through inaction. You want to be rude and unpleasant to everyone you meet? Well, you are now not only bottom of the food chain, but each time you are disrespectful to that demon butcher who might have given you something to eat, he teleports his whole store 50 miles away. Fighting for survival now requiresbetter social interaction, and failing to behave respectfully now brings levels of Exhaustion in an environment that is trying to kill you already.
I think that depends on why the players are acting this way, I suppose. If my guess is correct and they are acting this way out of some desire to live out an anti-authoritarian fantasy, or they feel like there's too many NPC's telling them what to do in this game, then it might be a good idea to give them an outlet in which to legitimately rail against.
If, however, they're just being d*cks to be d*cks because that's another thing they don't get to do irl, then I don't think an in-game solution is appropriate at all. Instead, have an out of game discussion about what you all want out of the game, the tone you're trying to shoot for, mention that you as the DM do out a lot of work into prepping content so it would be nice if players didn't dismiss any quest put in front of them for no reason, AND ask them if they as players have any reasons for why they act this way (they might never have thought about it and just think it's funny with no conception of the fact that it disrupts play) that you as a DM can address.
Either way it seems like the main disconnect between the DM and players is that they're both trying to play different games, so it's a struggle between them to get the game they want out onto the table. If you talk about the game you want and come to an agreement, you stop fighting each other and work together and it'll be way easier all around.
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So I've been having a bit of a problem in my game that I run. You see, the players tend to be very rude right to my NPCs faces, and yes I do mean that as a plural. It's happened on several occasions now where my players get in their face and talk back, smack talk, put them down, for no reason. At first I thought I would give them an outlet, a dumb dopey NPC. But they kept disrespecting other NPCs anyway, then I tried showing them their disrespect and rudeness can have consequences, still nothing!
I really don't know what to do anymore, I'm at my wit's end. The players are at a point in the story where if they don't get help from a group, a sponsor of sorts, their mission will fail. In short, they have to find where their enemies are located, but they don't have the resources to do it, but they keep being rude to the people who are trying to help them.
Some examples: They managed to lose the friendship of a ship captain by continually being rude to him, despite him helping them escape from what are essentially a militaristic force, and introduce them to an underground society of mages who have the resources to help them. They were disrespectful to that underground society of mages, particularly the higher ups because they asked them to do them a favor, I had to pay them hundreds of GP just for them to CONSIDER taking the job! Then, when they were doing the job, they were disrespectful to one of the people helping them, so much so that I genuinely, in character, considered him no longer helping them (I did anyway because otherwise I had no idea what to do).
Sorry that this has probably gone on way too long, I really just don't know what to do anymore and I could really use some help. I really love the players and the game and I want to keep running it, but like I said, I'm not sure what I should do. Do I just enforce stringent consequences? Any help/advice would be really appreciated!
Have the NPCs turn unfriendly towards them for starters. They may still maintain a business like relationship with the players, but nothing else, and they certainly wouldn’t do them any favors.
Have their demeanor turn nasty and rude in turn, too.
Whatever you do don’t “talk” to them about wishing they would play the game a different way just to satisfy you. Simply adapt your world to their behavior in game. Good luck!
The ship captain drops them off at the nearest island. Or goes back toward the militaristic force and puts them in a rowboat.
The mages don't keep upping the offer. The PCs don't take the job. Then they see the consequences of that (whatever was supposed to happen, didn't happen, so the bad guy's plan advanced). And, yes, the person helping them should have left.
It can end up a bit difficult for you if you have people react to the way they're treated, since it will require you to improvise. But if you don't, then expect the PCs to keep doing what they're doing.
The other option is you just roll with it. They get a reputation as being jerks, and no one wants to work with them or help them with anything. Their missions, as a result, get harder -- no one tells them about the back door or the secret entrance. If that's the kind of characters they want to play, and the whole party is up for it, then that's what happens.
The above are some in-game options. But it's a bit tough from what you posted to tell if its an in game or out of game problem. It could be the real solution is to have a(nother) session 0 and explain that the kind of game they want to play is not the kind you want to DM, so you all need to work together as a group to come to some solution that makes everyone happy.
I just had a case in my last session with this where I was trying to introduce some potentially friendly NPCs to my well-in-need party of outlaws and runaways, but the party wasn't happy to be with them because the NPCs had some pretty hefty criminal records. They made it perfectly clear that they didn't want to be associated with the NPCs' crimes and were very forward about giving them the cold shoulder. Took plenty of opportunities to call out and insult the NPCs directly to their faces.
Rather than following the party around for no reason like kicked puppies, the NPCs decided to pick up and leave in the night while the party was debating their next move. The party was somewhat shocked to see them leave, especially since those NPCs had stolen a big haul from a heist. "We should have asked them for a cut of the haul!" the party exclaimed. Either way, I don't think the NPCs would have been so willing to give the party anything, considering that they didn't help much with any heisting nor did they condone it whatsoever in the first place.
Moral of the story is: NPCs ought to react like actual characters in a story rather than devices in a video game. It would be wisest to show the players the consequences of their interactions to remind them that they're playing with actual involved and invested characters that you're working hard to set up rather than socio-narrative punching bags you want them to bust through. My suggestion would be to try to set up a social encounter that almost requires the party to reconsider their social approach to characters in order to succeed (ball arcs have been PHENOMENAL tools for me to make sure my players are behaving themselves and acting like actual people).
Simply put, if they can't put two and two together to realize that the Golden Rule applies... you might be playing with a bunch of goofuses. :P Like, I'm also sorry but... I don't know how much more plainly you can say "y'all need to gain the trust of others in order to succeed" with the rate it seems that they're refusing to do just that. Maybe you need to give them a reminder about why it's important that they need to be mindful and respectful to the NPCs in order to succeed on this quest they're on? Maybe show them that time is running out and they don't got all of the time in the world to be screwing around treating NPCs like jokes.
(For what it's worth, I'll say I would have lost my mind by now if I were you dealing with the amount of disrespect towards any work you'd put into it; be sure just to let them know as well if it gets to be too much that it's taking a toll on your own personal feelings and it doesn't feel so nice to have your work dunked on like that... It's okay to be honest about that kinda stuff and have transparency at a table!)
It is the GM's responsibility to have the game world respond to the characters' actions.
There are consequences. You have to be harsh.
First, prices go up and merchants won't haggle. Haggling and discounts are for polite people - rude people pay PHB prices + 50% (or more).
Next, services are unavailable. The boat captain refuses to carry the party downriver. The smith says they can get their armour repaired somewhere else. The priest declines to remove the party's curses or diseases.
Finally, mission selection becomes restricted. The characters hear that the local duke is offering a magic sword in return for some task. When the characters inquire, they get flatly told, "no, this job is not offered to you."
In short, some of the tools and resources that characters have to overcome obstacles and finish missions are no longer available to them. They wil have to work harder to overcome problems (or, hopefully, realise their mistake and go through some character growth).
It sounds like subtlety will be lost on them, and that they need some immediate intervention.
Put in front of the party an NPC that will command respect, and if they don't receive it, they will be forced to endure extreme consequences.
Some potential ideas could be a governor, princess, or high-ranking nobility. Have them find out through some means ahead of time that this NPC has a zero tolerance policy for disrespect; you might even foreshadow what will happen to them if they disrespect this NPC. Then have them meet that NPC, or a close friend/relative of that NPC with said NPC present. I pretty much guarantee you that they'll continue their disrespectful patterns of behavior. Then have them experience those very real consequences. "You dare to disrespect me? I have heard of your errant tongues before. You will not find me so patient. Guards, handle these rats to the dungeons." More guards than the PCs can handle descend upon them to arrest them.
A demigod or archfey would be another great idea. They can cause some serious repercussions for the party. One example I've had recently is that one of my PCs was being disrespectful towards a demigoddess, a literal embodiment of an aspect of the actual effin sun. (Not a problem player at all, but the character had had a Bad Day.) The NPC demigoddess had been patient with this PC so far insofar that the demigoddess has been making a specific demand of her for awhile ("Find my siblings" "I'm working on it but other things have come up") and tolerating some mild disrespect up until that point. I forget the specific thing said, but whatever it was was clearly enough to anger this capricious goddess enough to take action. It just so happens that this PC is an artificer who has used this shard of the sun that the demigoddess is stuck in in order to fuel her armor and artifice weapons. So the demigoddess basically said, "I'm losing my patience, girl," and I had the player roll a d12. She rolled a 3. The character was immediately burned up to a crisp with radiant fire that healed as soon as it had come on, but dealt 3 points of permanent damage to the character's max HP. No long rests, greater restorations, remove curses, or even wishes could fix this, and I made that clear. It sobered the party up quite a bit. (Although has caused a somewhat problematic inter-party conflict where one member of the party is now adamant to get the shard away from this PC, and that PC adamantly refuses despite this lesson in humility for very good characterization reasons.) This is a level 6 party, so 3hp might not be much, but the absolute permanence - and the brutal way in which it occurred - really worked. (It didn't hurt that this PC, due to a homebrew race, is vulnerable to radiant damage, and I described the damage as a radiant burn.)
Another thing you can do is have one of the NPCs have had enough, and go out of their way to "help" the party - only to betray them in the worst way at the worst time, and make it clear at that betrayal that it was because they and their fellows had had enough disrespect.
You could also give one of them a homebrew magical cursed sentient item that acts like it tolerates whatever disrespect is thrown at them, but is actively screwing over the owner of the item. Don't give away the nature of this item - Identify, as a note, doesn't reveal curses - but keep a note, and make the effects happen fairly regularly. A sentient neutral sword, staff, wand, rapier, crystal, or whatever, which is "almost too good to not use!" or actually "too good to not use!" has it's own agenda, such as demanding of its holder to return it somewhere or to bring it to someone specific. When they inevitably keep using it without doing as it so politely requested, it might sap their strength (temporary reductions in max HP, or permanent ones if you really need to hit home like I did), negative modifiers to ability scores, checks, saving throws, attack rolls, or damage, or even turning back on the holder of the item ("You won't do what I ask, I won't do what you ask" and causes an attack that would otherwise hit an enemy to hit a nearby ally instead). And if they try to toss it in the bag of holding, have them make saving throws with a high DC or else they physically can't part with it. Do they chop off a hand, finger, arm, or pass the saving throw, and chuck the item into the ether? Have it haunt them worse than Annabelle. Do they put it in a bag of holding? Turn it into the Bag Man, a creature that exists in the interdimensional spaces of bags of holdings and really screws the party over - and you can even modify it to be worse if need be.
And if they really royally screw up, don't be afraid to have game-ending consequences. "Oh, you're... being disrespectful to the all-powerful mage offering you a quest, in his own tower? He guides you all into a room, and closes the door behind you. You hear it lock. Everything goes black. You find yourselves floating in a void, with no way out. Good game, folks, but that's the end of this story. The bad guy eventually conquers the world."
As the DM you present them a world. It is up to the party to solve the problems set before them. If they waste their resources by making enemies of the people around them, then they just have to solve the problem some other way. As a DM I wouldn't own their disrespect and keep giving them a way out of the consequences. If they keep it up long enough the campaign could come to an early end.
Some players play as if they are God's gift to the Material Plane. I don't have time for that.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
"Magwa understand English, very well." ... proceeds to trigger the worst ambush on the soldiers column and kills all but six of those present.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHIIM26LFgM
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I think too many people try solve real world problems with ingame propositions. While it is totally possible that a player is really good at playing a rude, arrogant character, it is more likely the players are using your game to vent and act out in what they perceive as a no consequence theatre. Talk to your players and if this is not the case, continue below.
Do the players feel that the NPCs are show stealers, or are they feeling a railroad resentment? You imply that they need resources, they need support. Even if they do, they shouldn't be at the mercy of Organisation X. That makes it sounds like you are building a story around NPCs and not the characters. Sometimes it's as simple as letting the characters search out the allies they need under their own power and you still provide the same helpful NPCs, it's the semantics on how the characters get these allies that matters.
2nd what Wtfdndad commented.
OP, I notice that you are invested in the story, but maybe the players aren't?
I would highly recommend you have a Q&A with your players about what they want in the game and maybe what you expect from them. Your expression of frustration points out that you are pushing them into a story that they aren't vested in. They don't care if the mission fails, you've pointed to it yourself. If they are fine with the game as built, let them run how they want.
Why not make their decisions matter? Forcing them to accept help is railroading. Making them follow your mission plan is taking away their agency. Suggesting a path, direction or course of action as the DM is help enough. If they seem to be struggling to make a decision, summarizing choices can make choosing easier. Should your PCs choose to not follow the MacGuffin into the terrible place of evil and allow your BBE to succeed and do nasty things to the world at large, so be it. Show them the consequences of their choice, make it matter. Conversely, when they decide to accomplish good things that are pleasant and helpful to the world, show them those consequences as well - the rewards and acceptance of the world at large.
Failure is always a potential outcome.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
The first thing I thought when I looked at the topic line was "You make the npcs people worthy of the player's respect."
If your players won't do that with their characters, hold another session zero if you haven't done so already. Then talk to each player in private to find out what they really would like to play.
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I second this; I feel that players rarely want "punching bag NPCs" if they can help it, and may resort to being goofy with characters because they feel awkward or uncomfortable trying to play their own characters towards those NPCs. Sometimes, you have to be careful about presenting your content as a challenge to see how ridiculous things can get without breaking anything. Mutual respect comes when people and characters know each other's boundaries and then are able to equally give and take between one another with those in mind. So don't just make stick-in-the-mud NPCs either; make NPCs that are clear about their boundaries and have a lot of potential to offer to the party (whether it's something material, experiential, interpersonal, etc.), but also try to make it clear on what effort or input might be needed in order to get that NPC to give whatever they've got.
Examples from what OP mentioned: a ship captain that will only tolerate somebody being onboard if they earn their stay or else force them to walk the plank (not sure if pirate fits your bill, but more drama is always fun to work with :P), the mages might point out a potential threat to the party if they refuse to accept the quest and show that their warnings are something to be heeded and thankful for (or else fulfill on your promises and hit them with the consequences), and if a helping hand is getting paid to help a bunch of imbeciles either let them walk and quit or ask the party to pony up more coin for their troubles or something of the sort.
I also want to second the motion that perhaps you need to evaluate and consider if your players and party have the right motivations and understand the power dynamics that are set. You might need to give them a kick in the pants to remind them that the stuff going on here is serious, and that they shouldn't be trying to negotiate a better hand on the path you have set for them. "Sure I'll save the world, but only for a million gold pieces" is not really the kind of precedent you want to be setting as a DM I feel... Try to help them make sense of what's realistic and not if you can; just because it's fantasy doesn't mean that people will handwave anything that's blatantly not going to fly. Even though the PCs may be important to the story you're telling, try to make sure they understand that they might not be so equally important in the grand scheme of the entire world.
I'm going to lay it out as I see it, because the immediately visible problem and the actual problem aren't always the same.
The surface problem
The players treat the world like their own personal playground, where they can act like complete jerks. This is frustrating for the DM.
Underlying problems
The actual problem, at its core:
Much of the advice here is to take the players head on at their own game in the most combative way possible - "Put your foot down as DM, and show them that your NPCs won't be disrespected!" This is usually very good advice - all of my NPCs react in ways I find legitimate. They are proud, they are flawed, they are mean, they are kind - they all react as individuals. But I am also blessed with players who understand their part of the contract, and that's where this DM is having issues:
The players are ignoring the part of the contract that says that the DM gets to have fun, the DM's preparation is valuable, and that the DM's role is not to simply facilitate whatever goofing around they feel like doing on the day.
What the players are really enjoying is free licence to act like complete asshats. They don't do that in real life, I expect. But now they feel like they are in Westworld - and many D&D players do this - and they can indulge all the bad things that they'd never do in the real world.
You do have two options. One option is, if you feel that the players are up to it, to say to them "Guys, I know its been fun but just be aware, from this point on the NPCs are going to react to you exactly as you deserve. If this means that nobody will give you a mission, take you on a ship, or whatever, then so be it." The second option - and the one I'd go for personally - is to treat them the same way you would Murder Hobos. You introduce a pair of NPCs many, many levels higher than the PCs and set them up to be allies, but don't make them friendly. Have them conduct themselves with a knowing, smirking confidence. Have them treat the PCs with distant courtesy. When the players take the bait, let the NPCs loose on them.
I'll offer this warning here: there is a reasonable chance that either of these options can end your game. If what the players enjoy is running around being jerks and you shut that down by hammering them into the ground with NPCs, then they may lose interest in the game. If you tell them that you don't enjoy designing NPCs only to be smart-mouthed by the players, they may feel chastised and lose interest in the game. But sometimes, it's better to end a game and find new players that to endlessly endure crappy player behaviour. I've done it myself, and spent 6 months trying to work with players who wanted to play in a way that disrespected the preparation I did, and it's just not worth it. DMs are in short supply; players are ten a penny.
Agreed - No D&D is better than bad D&D.
I am going to again suggest that this is a player problem. Handling this in game will most likely not solve the issue.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I just looked back at the thread again. Second post said essentially the same thing I did, with fewer words. Sire Samuel lives up to his title, because that's what his answer was (Perfect).
<Insert clever signature here>
I work in customer service and have to take the crap idiot and rude customers give to me with a polite "thank you for your feedback." If I was self employed I'd be able to respond in a more independent manner.
I'd live out my self-employed fantasy as DM. "Yes, sir, your feedback is appreciated. Now, get out of my shop. You want to speak to the manager? He thinks you're a dick. By the way, I'm the manager. Good luck finding a decent sword."
Just to add; it sounds to me that your players have a specific fantasy they like to live out in your game. It sounds like they like the idea of defying authority figures, which is understandable-- it's not like you get to do do it irl much. That puts you in a better position though as a DM: you know what your players like.
Maybe instead of trying to fix what they want, throw them a bone. Don't just give them a dopey NPC to mock, give them an a**hole corrupt authority figure that they can mock, defy, ignore orders, and eventually take down, while still being the heroes. Don't give them another NPC telling that to do, give them someone that you actively don't want them to listen to, telling them to do something you don't think they'll actually do, maybe even have them threaten the party like "if you don't do what I say then I'll make it very difficult for you to get work in this town ever again" etc. Make the behavior they're displaying work for you.
This is great advice in my opinion. It had actually come up quite by accident in one of our games. The basic story, an enemy was pitting us against the Lord's Alliance. We weren't enemies of the Alliance but, we were trying to help an ally escape that the Alliance thought was their enemy. While the Alliance forces encountered our party on neutral ground, the enemy we were after mind controlled my fighter, who then proceeded to kill Alliance forces, including the nephew of the commanding officer. Despite proof of of all our claims and foiling many levels of a plot to incite division among the Factions(Lord's Alliance, Harpers, etc) this commander would just not give up his grudge. We had to spend many sessions outsmarting him, defending against slander that might damage our connections to other allies and other tactics instead of facing him head on. He was the regional head of the Lord's Alliance. Eventually, our credibility increased as did the power of our allies until someone finally directly ordered the commander to stand down and stay out of our way.
TLDR: We had an authority figure to act out against, and it was reasonable to do so. It was a great addition to the story.
I don't think that CharlesThePlant's suggestion works for this situation.
What this does is lean into problematic player behaviour, and attempt to give it an 'out,' and is actually rewarding them for problematic player behaviour. Players who don't acknowledge that the DM plans the game, and that derailing it or acting like crazed goofballs is not fun for the DM, shouldn't be offered a pinata. The players simply don't respect the work that the DM has put into the game. You can't bypass the players being jerks to every important NPC in a game where NPC interaction is vital by giving them a punching bag. The more you allow the behaviour to flourish, the more it will gain strength.
One last potential option that occurred to me that could work: if the PCs want to live in a world where they are asshats to everyone, put them into a world where nobody cares what they think, nobody is trying to help them, and nobody has a quest for them. Turn the game into Survive Hell.
Throw the PCs into the Abyss somewhere. Make it clear that they have little food, and if they don't find a way out, they will perish simply through inaction. You want to be rude and unpleasant to everyone you meet? Well, you are now not only bottom of the food chain, but each time you are disrespectful to that demon butcher who might have given you something to eat, he teleports his whole store 50 miles away. Fighting for survival now requires better social interaction, and failing to behave respectfully now brings levels of Exhaustion in an environment that is trying to kill you already.
I think that depends on why the players are acting this way, I suppose. If my guess is correct and they are acting this way out of some desire to live out an anti-authoritarian fantasy, or they feel like there's too many NPC's telling them what to do in this game, then it might be a good idea to give them an outlet in which to legitimately rail against.
If, however, they're just being d*cks to be d*cks because that's another thing they don't get to do irl, then I don't think an in-game solution is appropriate at all. Instead, have an out of game discussion about what you all want out of the game, the tone you're trying to shoot for, mention that you as the DM do out a lot of work into prepping content so it would be nice if players didn't dismiss any quest put in front of them for no reason, AND ask them if they as players have any reasons for why they act this way (they might never have thought about it and just think it's funny with no conception of the fact that it disrupts play) that you as a DM can address.
Either way it seems like the main disconnect between the DM and players is that they're both trying to play different games, so it's a struggle between them to get the game they want out onto the table. If you talk about the game you want and come to an agreement, you stop fighting each other and work together and it'll be way easier all around.