I know it can be a sensitive topic, but taxing PCs? Not to punish them or even control wealth, but it just seems a bit unrealistic that local lords or whoever would allow wealthy adventurers to be lounging around without extracting their fair share. Could add some interesting plot hooks as well, depending how it's done.
I am of the view that the more things that the characters have that they actually spend their collected wealth on, the more able players are to think of those characters as actually being a part of the world they are meant to be living in.
And the only time that players ever seem, in my experience at least, to take issue with that is when they are aware that if they don't get to spend every last copper they scrape together on being better adventurers then the rules will genuinely kill them - which is not an issue in 5th edition, since the difficulty is not defaulted to being high, and magical items are not set up in such a way that if you don't have the absolute best you will suffer.
But yes, if you use the lifestyle costs, that should cover any normal taxes a person is expected to pay - still leaves room for special taxes that a particular ruler might insist upon collecting, such as a percentage of all wealth acquired through mercenary and/or treasure-hunting activities. But failing to, or refusing to, pay such taxes is a fantastic opportunity for something like "well, then you'll have to do this quest for me instead." rather than player characters ending up in jail (or fighting the authorities to resist arrest and becoming outlaws as a result).
If you're willing to have your players start a revolution and overthrow your established government... ;)
If you're playing in a pretty silly setting, there are lots of ways of playing around with taxes in entertaining ways. My favorites come from a list of ridiculous taxes from Zak Sabbath's "A Red and Pleasant Land". Some of the best:
The Pole Tax - A tax for every pole-arm the players have.
Sails Tax - A small fee for every PC that can pilot a seafaring vessel.
Pie Tax - A tax for every pie carried by the party. If there are no pies at all, there is a Pielessness fee.
More seriously though, taxes are kinda tricky to pull off. Most players would rather destroy a fictional world than let it take their fictional stuff. If you make it a reasonable tax, from an established character, or if the party is too low level to do anything about it, I suppose it won't really disrupt the campaign. But I would be very careful trying it with higher level characters, especially those with the murder-hobo streak
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"If you don't hear anything on the other side of the door, it's probably a trap."
DM: The lord of the city informs you that all members of the adventuring guild are required to pay a 2gp tax to help pay for the coty guard.
Player: Seize the means of production! Overthrow the bourgeois. Their taxes are a virus on the working peasent class!
I recently built a fighter on a whim; dual wields warhammer and sickle (variant human, DW feat). Name is Yosef Communa, and he wants to sign up for this campaign.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
If taxes are simply part and parcel of the fabric, go with the lifestyle costs.
If you want to use them semi-realistically as part of a broader picture of the narrative, e.g. unjust rulers, etc., you'll need to consider the possible points of contact a government has to take taxes. One is via landholdings, but is generally resisted by the wealthy (who own lots of land) though is very efficient. Tolls are another.
The Romans outsourced tax collection in the provinces - hence the picture of tax collectors as being particularly despicable in the time of the New Testament. You could have these 'private contractors' collecting taxes in a particularly punitive and self-serving way if it serves the story.
it just seems a bit unrealistic that local lords or whoever would allow wealthy adventurers to be lounging around without extracting their fair share.
Actually it doesn't. Very few lords would be concerned with something so trivial... unless we are talking build-a-competing-nation levels of wealth. Usually, what happens is the adventurers might be pressured to join a guild, and that guild would collect members dues and the lords would tax them. This is what leads to those fascinating situations where a city has a thriving black market that appears to be ignored by the city guard.
Anyway, I would be absolutely shocked if I were hit-up for money by a lordling's tax collector, and it turned out that the lordling in question had any idea who I was before I showed up in his throne room to "transition power."
"Passing through" while staying at an inn for a few days, or even weeks/months wouldn't really warrant tax collection on you. You don't own property and thus aren't tied to the land. The innkeep is paying that tax, and you're paying the innkeep. If you're in a particularly corrupt or heavily taxed area, the cost of the inn and possibly other goods would likely just be higher, and the innkeep would give the taxes as a reason the prices are so high if your party were to inquire. You aren't paying the lord, you're paying the person giving you the service who in turn is paying the lord their share.
It wouldn't be far off from today's society, you have sales tax on almost everything, but you aren't paying the government, you're paying the vendor. The government collects the tax from the vendor based on how much they sold, they don't collect it directly from the consumers. As a consumer, you can't just elect to not pay the sales tax, as the vendor wouldn't allow you to do that, as they are still hit with the tax whether you think it is just or not.
Now, if your party has purchased a plot of land or commandeered a castle or something of that sort, then yes taxing (if you're into that) can definitely occur without being seen as a corrupt thing. Generally taxes are tied to land ownership I do believe.
I know it can be a sensitive topic, but taxing PCs? Not to punish them or even control wealth, but it just seems a bit unrealistic that local lords or whoever would allow wealthy adventurers to be lounging around without extracting their fair share. Could add some interesting plot hooks as well, depending how it's done.
I believe general taxes are included in the oft looked over lifestyle cost in the PHB.
I am of the view that the more things that the characters have that they actually spend their collected wealth on, the more able players are to think of those characters as actually being a part of the world they are meant to be living in.
And the only time that players ever seem, in my experience at least, to take issue with that is when they are aware that if they don't get to spend every last copper they scrape together on being better adventurers then the rules will genuinely kill them - which is not an issue in 5th edition, since the difficulty is not defaulted to being high, and magical items are not set up in such a way that if you don't have the absolute best you will suffer.
But yes, if you use the lifestyle costs, that should cover any normal taxes a person is expected to pay - still leaves room for special taxes that a particular ruler might insist upon collecting, such as a percentage of all wealth acquired through mercenary and/or treasure-hunting activities. But failing to, or refusing to, pay such taxes is a fantastic opportunity for something like "well, then you'll have to do this quest for me instead." rather than player characters ending up in jail (or fighting the authorities to resist arrest and becoming outlaws as a result).
If you're willing to have your players start a revolution and overthrow your established government... ;)
If you're playing in a pretty silly setting, there are lots of ways of playing around with taxes in entertaining ways. My favorites come from a list of ridiculous taxes from Zak Sabbath's "A Red and Pleasant Land". Some of the best:
The Pole Tax - A tax for every pole-arm the players have.
Sails Tax - A small fee for every PC that can pilot a seafaring vessel.
Pie Tax - A tax for every pie carried by the party. If there are no pies at all, there is a Pielessness fee.
More seriously though, taxes are kinda tricky to pull off. Most players would rather destroy a fictional world than let it take their fictional stuff. If you make it a reasonable tax, from an established character, or if the party is too low level to do anything about it, I suppose it won't really disrupt the campaign. But I would be very careful trying it with higher level characters, especially those with the murder-hobo streak
"If you don't hear anything on the other side of the door, it's probably a trap."
DM: The lord of the city informs you that all members of the adventuring guild are required to pay a 2gp tax to help pay for the coty guard.
Player: Seize the means of production! Overthrow the bourgeois. Their taxes are a virus on the working peasent class!
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
If taxes are simply part and parcel of the fabric, go with the lifestyle costs.
If you want to use them semi-realistically as part of a broader picture of the narrative, e.g. unjust rulers, etc., you'll need to consider the possible points of contact a government has to take taxes. One is via landholdings, but is generally resisted by the wealthy (who own lots of land) though is very efficient. Tolls are another.
The Romans outsourced tax collection in the provinces - hence the picture of tax collectors as being particularly despicable in the time of the New Testament. You could have these 'private contractors' collecting taxes in a particularly punitive and self-serving way if it serves the story.
Actually it doesn't. Very few lords would be concerned with something so trivial... unless we are talking build-a-competing-nation levels of wealth. Usually, what happens is the adventurers might be pressured to join a guild, and that guild would collect members dues and the lords would tax them. This is what leads to those fascinating situations where a city has a thriving black market that appears to be ignored by the city guard.
Anyway, I would be absolutely shocked if I were hit-up for money by a lordling's tax collector, and it turned out that the lordling in question had any idea who I was before I showed up in his throne room to "transition power."
"Passing through" while staying at an inn for a few days, or even weeks/months wouldn't really warrant tax collection on you. You don't own property and thus aren't tied to the land. The innkeep is paying that tax, and you're paying the innkeep. If you're in a particularly corrupt or heavily taxed area, the cost of the inn and possibly other goods would likely just be higher, and the innkeep would give the taxes as a reason the prices are so high if your party were to inquire. You aren't paying the lord, you're paying the person giving you the service who in turn is paying the lord their share.
It wouldn't be far off from today's society, you have sales tax on almost everything, but you aren't paying the government, you're paying the vendor. The government collects the tax from the vendor based on how much they sold, they don't collect it directly from the consumers. As a consumer, you can't just elect to not pay the sales tax, as the vendor wouldn't allow you to do that, as they are still hit with the tax whether you think it is just or not.
Now, if your party has purchased a plot of land or commandeered a castle or something of that sort, then yes taxing (if you're into that) can definitely occur without being seen as a corrupt thing. Generally taxes are tied to land ownership I do believe.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
Oh yes, tax farmers. I hadn’t thought of that.