If your players somehow find themselves approaching the sun, it's instant death. No save, just 1,000,000d20 fire damage that ignores all immunities and resistances.
Radiant damage is a religious effect damage type, and the stars are not gods. There is no radiant damage put out by a star.
I have to disagree with this part as there are ways to deal Radiant Damage that is not reliant upon gods. Wizards don't use the power of a god to cast Sunbeam for example.
Also, who says stars are not gods? In a D&D fantasy world, they very well could be.
There is this celestial who does a lot of radiant damage: Solar
First off, you don't "drop" a Dragon into a star. I don't even know how your char gets into space, and manages to subdue an ancient gold shadow dragon, and create some kind of structure to hold said dragon, but I assume it will have happened.
But it is a suicide maneuver. The forces of gravity pull being exerted on the dragon are also being exerted on the char, and whatever structure surrounding the char. They will be subjected at the same rate of acceleration into the star as the dragon.
The char is also subjected to the same effects as the dragon, and I would assume an ancient gold shadow dragon would have far higher resists than some puny mortal, so the dragon would outlast the char, even though both would be dead from X-rays, gamma rays, and gravitational tidal forces. Radiant damage is a religious effect damage type, and the stars are not gods. There is no radiant damage put out by a star.
I mean, you could, if you're clever. Cast Levitate. You are no longer subject to gravity. The dragon can fly, but not in the vacuum of space. You could "drop" the dragon from some distance from the sun, and it would fall inevitably on an elongated elliptical orbit spiraling closer to the sun, eventually reaching a distance where it would take damage.
No one can hear you scream in space. And you can't cast spells with a V component for the same reasons.
Oh my god. Well if you're just assuming they have no protection from the vacuum, then everybody, PCs and dragon, is going to be dead anyway.
Physics don't necessarily work in D&D as they do in 'real life'.
IIRC, you could actually land on a sun, if your Spelljammer ship was protected sufficiently, and interact with the fire elemental beings that inhabited it...
Physics don't necessarily work in D&D as they do in 'real life'.
IIRC, you could actually land on a sun, if your Spelljammer ship was protected sufficiently, and interact with the fire elemental beings that inhabited it...
Yeah, I was going to mention something after reading some posts about the vacuum of space.
D&D has some fantasy rules for space travel (from older editions). You actually capture a bubble of air around you when you leave the planet. Larger things capture more.
We can safely assume that the players will not be pursuing the dragon to the sun (and if they do, they will get plot damage too).
Plot Damage is basically where it will either kill them or it won't depending on if the plot requires it. If the dragon has a way to escape the sun, then they might live. If they don't, they're dead. Same with the players - if they pursue the dragon to the sun without a plan on how to survive there, then they're dead.
If the dragon has no means by which to teleport out (probably in one round) then it's dead. If it succeeds, it should be disfigured and melted, and blame them for the corruption of its otherwise perfect form, perhaps becoming a more sinister and underhanded villain ,terrified of being sent to the sun again but too prepossessed on revenge to leave them be.
Would Plane Shift work? The dragon has that spell, but I don't know if it will work since it requires a verbal component and the dragon is in a gas giant. I should also mention it ignores material components so don't worry about that.
But here's the thing to remember: your world, your rules.
In some official campaigns like Forgotton Realms - some stars aren't stars - they're actually creatures.
Do whatever feels right for you and your story. Perhaps only the "light" is radiant but the core is Fire so its immunity in that core might protect it.
Realistically it would be radiant as this represents sunlight, "light" damage, "holy damage" and also represents radiation (see Sickening Radiance - which is basically radiation poisoning as a spell). However, D&D isn't always realistic: it's not a world based on physics and atoms - material is created as a fusion of mystical elemental magic from the Elemental Planes fusing together. So, a DM is better off deciding what makes more sense for their world and their story while being simple enough to improv, rather than trying to translate real world science into a fantasy world where our science has little meaning (in most cases).
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Before you decide the damage you should probably work out how often your players are doing this… how does one throw a huge dragon into the Sun?
At level 6, they did it using a creature that I homebrewed. I will be killing that creature next session to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Errr...I am a little confused. Are you saying that the chars right now are level 6, and dealing with an ancient gold shadow dragon, or were level 6 when they first whizzed near the sun?
As he wrote it, they took it out at level 6.
It sounds like a bit of a crazy campaign if things like this are possible, but we already knew that, given that somehow they'd thrown something into the sun.
Given that this ability apparently exists in this campaign, I'm a bit baffled as to why the DM needs to ask what damage the sun deals since they've clearly homebrewed enormously to get to this point.
Before you decide the damage you should probably work out how often your players are doing this… how does one throw a huge dragon into the Sun?
At level 6, they did it using a creature that I homebrewed. I will be killing that creature next session to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Errr...I am a little confused. Are you saying that the chars right now are level 6, and dealing with an ancient gold shadow dragon, or were level 6 when they first whizzed near the sun?
As he wrote it, they took it out at level 6.
It sounds like a bit of a crazy campaign if things like this are possible, but we already knew that, given that somehow they'd thrown something into the sun.
Given that this ability apparently exists in this campaign, I'm a bit baffled as to why the DM needs to ask what damage the sun deals since they've clearly homebrewed enormously to get to this point.
Even homebrew DMs like to receive input. And you know we on this forum like to give our opinions. So it's a win-win.
It's amusing, the word "Atom" was coined by an ancient Greek Philosopher whose name in Latin was "Democritus". He was trying to figure out what the universe was made of, and he decided that atoms were a mixture of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, and that when mixed, the relative proportions were what made up each atom. These days the study if Physics still uses the same word, and we have a Periodic Table of the Elements. We're still trying to figure out what the universe is made of. We have even gotten into Sub-Atomic Physics.
Dungeons & Dragons has a lot of magic in it. We don't have a lot of real world physics that applies, so we will probably need to use the version that Democritus came up with.
The sun is clearly pure Elemental Fire. That's the Fires of Destruction. Odd note, Dragons who can breathe out fire produce the non-magical version of it. That means it goes right through a lot of magical protections, like the Tiny Hut spell gives. Clearly, the sun works the same way, and will destroy anything not covered entirely with Plot Armor. I found that suggestion delightful.
Before you decide the damage you should probably work out how often your players are doing this… how does one throw a huge dragon into the Sun?
At level 6, they did it using a creature that I homebrewed. I will be killing that creature next session to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Errr...I am a little confused. Are you saying that the chars right now are level 6, and dealing with an ancient gold shadow dragon, or were level 6 when they first whizzed near the sun?
As he wrote it, they took it out at level 6.
It sounds like a bit of a crazy campaign if things like this are possible, but we already knew that, given that somehow they'd thrown something into the sun.
Given that this ability apparently exists in this campaign, I'm a bit baffled as to why the DM needs to ask what damage the sun deals since they've clearly homebrewed enormously to get to this point.
Even homebrew DMs like to receive input. And you know we on this forum like to give our opinions. So it's a win-win.
What do we have in this world except strong opinions about imaginary situations ^_^
It's amusing, the word "Atom" was coined by an ancient Greek Philosopher whose name in Latin was "Democritus". He was trying to figure out what the universe was made of, and he decided that atoms were a mixture of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, and that when mixed, the relative proportions were what made up each atom. These days the study if Physics still uses the same word, and we have a Periodic Table of the Elements. We're still trying to figure out what the universe is made of. We have even gotten into Sub-Atomic Physics.
Dungeons & Dragons has a lot of magic in it. We don't have a lot of real world physics that applies, so we will probably need to use the version that Democritus came up with.
The sun is clearly pure Elemental Fire. That's the Fires of Destruction. Odd note, Dragons who can breathe out fire produce the non-magical version of it. That means it goes right through a lot of magical protections, like the Tiny Hut spell gives. Clearly, the sun works the same way, and will destroy anything not covered entirely with Plot Armor. I found that suggestion delightful.
Fire Breath is magical, in the raw magic way, it is not magical in the spells kind. There's a distinction. It's a natural magic, in that it doesn't bypass magical resistance but is still magical in the sense of "how it works".
And Tiny Hut blocks fire breath. The hut isn't just a barrier against spell-magic - it's also a barrier against, well, literally everything. It's a physical barrier of force.
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Sage Advice Compendium: The breath weapon of a typical dragon isn’t considered magical. Tiny Hut: Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it.
Tiny Hut does nothing against anything that isn't considered magical.
Sage Advice Compendium: The breath weapon of a typical dragon isn’t considered magical. Tiny Hut: Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it.
Tiny Hut does nothing against something that isn't considered magical.
Re "magical" - you missed my point, please re-read carefully.
Re "Tiny Hut does nothing against something that isn't considered magical." -- false. Read the spell fully. "Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it." -- It is a physical barrier. It affects things physically. Yes, it blocks fire.
In D&D everything is either a creature, an object or magic. The hut blocks all 3. However, the dome itself is also an object and while magic cannot "pass through" magic can still hit and affect it: such as dispel magic or a Disintegrate spell.
For those who like dictionaries - an object is not limited to a solid. It can also refer to anything made of material - and material can be anything that can be used to create something. Fire from a dragon is like our own fire, and is made of oxygen, fuel and heat. The fuel is magic (and sure, it's not the kind you "consider" magic for spell interactions and resistances, it's magic in the way everything is magic - the Sage Advice you reference clarified the two types of magic from "raw" and manipulated magic) but air and heat remain the same. And we see examples of this in other areas of D&D regarding dousing flames, so this is an aspect we can keep in D&D.
The material of the flame (air, fire, fuel) is blocked, and also the inside of the hut is magically protected: the air and ambient temperatures are always kept comfortable, breathable and dry. So, the temperature can't be raised by the fire of the breath weapon, not can the oxygen be altered, and the fuel aspect is blocked, and useless on its own anyway. All the material that makes the object of flame from the dragon's fire breath weapon is completely blocked.
There are few things that can get through the Tiny hut - that's kinda the point of the spell. It's a force field designed to keep you safe from any non-spellcaster/non-beholder/etc. Kinda pointless if people could just spray fire or such and roast you all inside it (since the ability to use non-magical fire is not limited to dragons).
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Sage Advice Compendium: The breath weapon of a typical dragon isn’t considered magical. Tiny Hut: Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it.
Tiny Hut does nothing against something that isn't considered magical.
Re "magical" - you missed my point, please re-read carefully.
Re "Tiny Hut does nothing against something that isn't considered magical." -- false. Read the spell fully. "Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it." -- It is a physical barrier. It affects things physically. Yes, it blocks fire.
In D&D everything is either a creature, an object or magic. The hut blocks all 3. However, the dome itself is also an object and while magic cannot "pass through" magic can still hit and affect it: such as dispel magic or a Disintegrate spell.
For those who like dictionaries - an object is not limited to a solid. It can also refer to anything made of material - and material can be anything that can be used to create something. Fire from a dragon is like our own fire, and is made of oxygen, fuel and heat. The fuel is magic (and sure, it's not the kind you "consider" magic for spell interactions and resistances, it's magic in the way everything is magic - the Sage Advice you reference clarified the two types of magic from "raw" and manipulated magic) but air and heat remain the same. And we see examples of this in other areas of D&D regarding dousing flames, so this is an aspect we can keep in D&D.
The material of the flame (air, fire, fuel) is blocked, and also the inside of the hut is magically protected: the air and ambient temperatures are always kept comfortable, breathable and dry. So, the temperature can't be raised by the fire of the breath weapon, not can the oxygen be altered, and the fuel aspect is blocked, and useless on its own anyway. All the material that makes the object of flame from the dragon's fire breath weapon is completely blocked.
There are few things that can get through the Tiny hut - that's kinda the point of the spell. It's a force field designed to keep you safe from any non-spellcaster/non-beholder/etc. Kinda pointless if people could just spray fire or such and roast you all inside it (since the ability to use non-magical fire is not limited to dragons).
Object is defined in game terms, and there is... let's say... an ongoing discussion about what you should and shouldn't include in the things that the hut protects from.
While I am usually a fan of pedantry, there is too much of it going around with the Tiny Hut. I concur with you that it is meant to be a safe space for 8 hours, and think it's silly to invent circumstances that bypass that spell. The easiest and most straight-forward way to counter Tiny Hut is either at the table (DM doesn't like it and then consequently removes it from play), or dispel magic.
Before you decide the damage you should probably work out how often your players are doing this… how does one throw a huge dragon into the Sun?
At level 6, they did it using a creature that I homebrewed. I will be killing that creature next session to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Errr...I am a little confused. Are you saying that the chars right now are level 6, and dealing with an ancient gold shadow dragon, or were level 6 when they first whizzed near the sun?
As he wrote it, they took it out at level 6.
It sounds like a bit of a crazy campaign if things like this are possible, but we already knew that, given that somehow they'd thrown something into the sun.
Given that this ability apparently exists in this campaign, I'm a bit baffled as to why the DM needs to ask what damage the sun deals since they've clearly homebrewed enormously to get to this point.
This campaign does not take place in space. The players were in close contact with an NPC that knows the teleport spell and is over powered. The NPC was meant to be an enemy, but they befriended them and were able to change her world view with a Nat 20 Persuasion check when she was still figuring out what she wants.
Ok, so a deus ex machina cast (kinda literally) the dragon into the sun. At that point deus ex machina does as you design it. Let's me clear now that your players didn't do anything, except basically obtaining the equivalent of divine intervention. Unless the dragon was window dressing and you didn't mean for the players to really fight it, I wouldn't have been as generous with the results of a nat 20 persuasion. Like in the regular rules, you're talking the odds of a level 20 cleric. I dunno, unless you're playing a social and politics game, I'm not a fan of NPCs doing away with PCs problems and giving the PCs the credit.
I was disappointed this thread had to wait till page 2 for someone to bring up Spelljammer.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
This campaign does not take place in space. The players were in close contact with an NPC that knows the teleport spell and is over powered. The NPC was meant to be an enemy, but they befriended them and were able to change her world view with a Nat 20 Persuasion check when she was still figuring out what she wants.
Bearing in mind everything works how you say it does, RAW:
The Nat 20 on a Persuasion check is meaningless, just like a Nat 1 would be. What matters is the total check result against the DC you decided was appropriate for that attempt.
It only works on willing creatures, so the dragon has to consent to be teleported. Getting that consent is unlikely to be easy.
If you house-rule it to be resisted with a save or something, it should be a Charisma save, as that's how teleports work.
You would use the "Description" accuracy row for the spell.
The spell takes the caster with it, so the NPC casting the spell has to be willing to teleport into a star with the dragon. That's a really big ask.
Stars deal fire damage, which the dragon is immune to. It's not radiant, not force, it's just very, very hot. In general, an ancient gold dragon is harder to kill than a fire elemental, and there's no sane reason a star would hurt a fire elemental. You can think of stars as pockets in the Prime Material of the Elemental Plane of Fire.
In fact, in previous editions of D&D, we had natives from the elemental plane of fire explicitly inhabiting stars.
So again, the dragon wouldn't take any damage from this, just as an efreet would not.
If your players somehow find themselves approaching the sun, it's instant death. No save, just 1,000,000d20 fire damage that ignores all immunities and resistances.
Also, who says stars are not gods? In a D&D fantasy world, they very well could be.
There is this celestial who does a lot of radiant damage: Solar
Oh my god. Well if you're just assuming they have no protection from the vacuum, then everybody, PCs and dragon, is going to be dead anyway.
Physics don't necessarily work in D&D as they do in 'real life'.
IIRC, you could actually land on a sun, if your Spelljammer ship was protected sufficiently, and interact with the fire elemental beings that inhabited it...
+1 for Plot Damage
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
Yeah, I was going to mention something after reading some posts about the vacuum of space.
D&D has some fantasy rules for space travel (from older editions). You actually capture a bubble of air around you when you leave the planet. Larger things capture more.
At level 6, they did it using a creature that I homebrewed. I will be killing that creature next session to make sure this doesn't happen again.
At level 6, they did it using a creature that I homebrewed. I will be killing that creature next session to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Would Plane Shift work? The dragon has that spell, but I don't know if it will work since it requires a verbal component and the dragon is in a gas giant. I should also mention it ignores material components so don't worry about that.
Radiant.
And lots of it.
But here's the thing to remember: your world, your rules.
In some official campaigns like Forgotton Realms - some stars aren't stars - they're actually creatures.
Do whatever feels right for you and your story. Perhaps only the "light" is radiant but the core is Fire so its immunity in that core might protect it.
Realistically it would be radiant as this represents sunlight, "light" damage, "holy damage" and also represents radiation (see Sickening Radiance - which is basically radiation poisoning as a spell). However, D&D isn't always realistic: it's not a world based on physics and atoms - material is created as a fusion of mystical elemental magic from the Elemental Planes fusing together. So, a DM is better off deciding what makes more sense for their world and their story while being simple enough to improv, rather than trying to translate real world science into a fantasy world where our science has little meaning (in most cases).
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
As he wrote it, they took it out at level 6.
It sounds like a bit of a crazy campaign if things like this are possible, but we already knew that, given that somehow they'd thrown something into the sun.
Given that this ability apparently exists in this campaign, I'm a bit baffled as to why the DM needs to ask what damage the sun deals since they've clearly homebrewed enormously to get to this point.
Even homebrew DMs like to receive input. And you know we on this forum like to give our opinions. So it's a win-win.
It's amusing, the word "Atom" was coined by an ancient Greek Philosopher whose name in Latin was "Democritus". He was trying to figure out what the universe was made of, and he decided that atoms were a mixture of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, and that when mixed, the relative proportions were what made up each atom. These days the study if Physics still uses the same word, and we have a Periodic Table of the Elements. We're still trying to figure out what the universe is made of. We have even gotten into Sub-Atomic Physics.
Dungeons & Dragons has a lot of magic in it. We don't have a lot of real world physics that applies, so we will probably need to use the version that Democritus came up with.
The sun is clearly pure Elemental Fire. That's the Fires of Destruction. Odd note, Dragons who can breathe out fire produce the non-magical version of it. That means it goes right through a lot of magical protections, like the Tiny Hut spell gives. Clearly, the sun works the same way, and will destroy anything not covered entirely with Plot Armor. I found that suggestion delightful.
<Insert clever signature here>
What do we have in this world except strong opinions about imaginary situations ^_^
Fire Breath is magical, in the raw magic way, it is not magical in the spells kind. There's a distinction. It's a natural magic, in that it doesn't bypass magical resistance but is still magical in the sense of "how it works".
And Tiny Hut blocks fire breath. The hut isn't just a barrier against spell-magic - it's also a barrier against, well, literally everything. It's a physical barrier of force.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Sage Advice Compendium: The breath weapon of a typical dragon isn’t considered magical. Tiny Hut: Spells and other magical effects can't extend through the dome or be cast through it.
Tiny Hut does nothing against anything that isn't considered magical.
<Insert clever signature here>
Re "magical" - you missed my point, please re-read carefully.
Re "Tiny Hut does nothing against something that isn't considered magical." -- false. Read the spell fully. "Creatures and objects within the dome when you cast this spell can move through it freely. All other creatures and objects are barred from passing through it." -- It is a physical barrier. It affects things physically. Yes, it blocks fire.
In D&D everything is either a creature, an object or magic. The hut blocks all 3. However, the dome itself is also an object and while magic cannot "pass through" magic can still hit and affect it: such as dispel magic or a Disintegrate spell.
For those who like dictionaries - an object is not limited to a solid. It can also refer to anything made of material - and material can be anything that can be used to create something. Fire from a dragon is like our own fire, and is made of oxygen, fuel and heat. The fuel is magic (and sure, it's not the kind you "consider" magic for spell interactions and resistances, it's magic in the way everything is magic - the Sage Advice you reference clarified the two types of magic from "raw" and manipulated magic) but air and heat remain the same. And we see examples of this in other areas of D&D regarding dousing flames, so this is an aspect we can keep in D&D.
The material of the flame (air, fire, fuel) is blocked, and also the inside of the hut is magically protected: the air and ambient temperatures are always kept comfortable, breathable and dry. So, the temperature can't be raised by the fire of the breath weapon, not can the oxygen be altered, and the fuel aspect is blocked, and useless on its own anyway. All the material that makes the object of flame from the dragon's fire breath weapon is completely blocked.
There are few things that can get through the Tiny hut - that's kinda the point of the spell. It's a force field designed to keep you safe from any non-spellcaster/non-beholder/etc. Kinda pointless if people could just spray fire or such and roast you all inside it (since the ability to use non-magical fire is not limited to dragons).
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Object is defined in game terms, and there is... let's say... an ongoing discussion about what you should and shouldn't include in the things that the hut protects from.
While I am usually a fan of pedantry, there is too much of it going around with the Tiny Hut. I concur with you that it is meant to be a safe space for 8 hours, and think it's silly to invent circumstances that bypass that spell. The easiest and most straight-forward way to counter Tiny Hut is either at the table (DM doesn't like it and then consequently removes it from play), or dispel magic.
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
This campaign does not take place in space. The players were in close contact with an NPC that knows the teleport spell and is over powered. The NPC was meant to be an enemy, but they befriended them and were able to change her world view with a Nat 20 Persuasion check when she was still figuring out what she wants.
Ok, so a deus ex machina cast (kinda literally) the dragon into the sun. At that point deus ex machina does as you design it. Let's me clear now that your players didn't do anything, except basically obtaining the equivalent of divine intervention. Unless the dragon was window dressing and you didn't mean for the players to really fight it, I wouldn't have been as generous with the results of a nat 20 persuasion. Like in the regular rules, you're talking the odds of a level 20 cleric. I dunno, unless you're playing a social and politics game, I'm not a fan of NPCs doing away with PCs problems and giving the PCs the credit.
I was disappointed this thread had to wait till page 2 for someone to bring up Spelljammer.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Bearing in mind everything works how you say it does, RAW: