Need some advice. I've been DMing a campaign for about the last 6 months now. My first time DMing in fifteen years, and the longest running campaign I've ever done. Characters have progressed from level 1 to level 7, about to hit 8. Last night one of the players finally did something that will almost surely kill their character very soon, without the possibility of easy resurrection.
I'm feeling really bad about the thought of killing this guy's character off, and I'm already thinking of ways I might step in and save him. Should I do it? If so how, while making an entertaining story out of it? Or, should I let the character die, the natural result of foolishness (by player and character both, really).
Here's the situation: The group encountered a dormant centaur mummy. The bard tried to jump on its back (bad move #1). It animated and attacked. The bard didn't move out of melee range (bad move #2). The party swarmed it. Just before it is about to go down the bard draws a non-magical rapier, yells "I regret nothing!", and attacks (again not moving away to use a spell or his magical crossbow, bad move #3). He misses. The centaur mummy attacks the bard, and rolls well, hitting him for 30 points of damage and successfully infecting him with mummy rot.
Because of the mummy rot, he can't heal. By the end of the session he was down to 9 hit points. No cleric in the group, no one that can cast remove curse. The party is several days travel from the nearest temple.
The mummy rot will kill him after his next rest, and turn his body to dust. His only real chance (other than me making up something new) is if the party defeats the boss coming up next session they will earn a remove curse scroll as part of the treasure - but they are all hurt and low on spells, without a long rest (which will kill the bard from mummy rot) they are likely to lose the boss fight. And, with only 9 hp remaining, the bard is likely to die in the boss fight anyway.
I have told the players several times that they may encounter things that are too powerful for them to fight, I've told them they characters could die in this campaign, yet this is only the latest in a string of rash moves by the bard. (Which is great fun generally).
So what would you do? If he turns to dust the only way he comes back is in a new body, via a Reincarnation spell because in the campaign there's a dimming effect on magic in the world that prevents spells of 6th level+ from working, so no possibility of Resurrection, True Resurrection, Wish, etc. Even then they will need to find a druid to cast it as the party's druid won't be able to for 2 move levels.
Is the adventure that you are running for your party The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan by chance? I only ask because that's about the only place I've ever really seen a centaur mummy used. If that is the case, in area 42 there is a couatl that is trapped and might be willing to reward the party with some sort of curse lifting magic if it is freed. Either that our you could swap out the potion of healing that is the reward for the trials in that room for some sort of mystical potion that fully cures the bard.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
Is the adventure that you are running for your party The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan by chance? I only ask because that's about the only place I've ever really seen a centaur mummy used. If that is the case, in area 42 there is a couatl that is trapped and might be willing to reward the party with some sort of curse lifting magic if it is freed. Either that our you could swap out the potion of healing that is the reward for the trials in that room for some sort of mystical potion that fully cures the bard.
Good call - its a modified version of that adventure, yes. :)
Unfortunately they already freed the couatl, which did remove a curse from one of them (that place is full of curses) before disappearing - so that route is not available. I could have the thing return though, or perhaps they encounter it again once they get to the surface.
It does sound like the player is trying to get his character killed, so may be worth talking to them about that, before the next session.
You've actually got a really interesting situation though that can cause some really interesting group roleplay.
You can describe the mummy rot and how it is spreading across the bard. Maybe allow characters a medicine roll to determine roughly how long the bard has left before death.
They can then decide - do they want to take that long rest before pushing on, knowing that it will condemn a member of the party to death?
Just be prepared that, to save the life of the bard, they may push on into the boss fight without resting, so it could get more than just the bard killed.
Personally, I would play it out and see how it goes.
If you're concerned about killing the entire party, you could always use some DM fiat to assist them in other ways against the boss.
Ask the player if he was trying to get his character killed.
To add to what Matthias has said:
Talk to your players about character death so that you can find out how they feel about it. Ask if they'd rather you provide some way for them to always stay alive, or come back from the dead no matter how/when they die, or if they'd prefer harsher treatment of death (whether in making it more likely by upping the difficulty, making it less likely or even impossible for a character to come back from the dead, or a combination of the two).
It is very important to have this discussion, though, as otherwise you might find yourself in a situation where you avoid a character death because you "feel bad", and then find your player has preferences along the line of mine - which would have them straight-up walk from your game the moment a clearly deadly situation for their character turns into survival by DM intervention.
Solid advice, I am reaching out to the player to talk out of game about what they want - from the start of the campaign I've wanted things to be very player driven and collaborative - I'll find out what the player has in mind and we can go from there.
Love the suggestions from all for how to make some entertaining RP situations come out of this as well. Thanks!
By the end of the session he was down to 9 hit points. No cleric in the group, no one that can cast remove curse. The party is several days travel from the nearest temple.
The mummy rot will kill him after his next rest
Mummy rot reduces your Hit Point Maximum every 24 hrs, not your current Hit Points (i.e. "Hit Point Maximum" is a separate stat that is likely much higher than the PC's current HP). Your player probably has plenty of time left.
Imagine what would happen if as a DM you told them, don’t worry no one will die in this campaign, I will always find a way to save you. How excited do you think they would be about the game? How excited would you be to participate in a game like that?
So long as "your character will not die" is not accompanied with "your character will never fail at something and have consequences of that failure", player's can be very excited about the game - there are a whole bunch of things that can happen to characters other than death to keep the game exciting, and maintain the important element of risk/danger.
Whether or not death is a possible outcome is 100% a preference thing, not some kind of mandatory element that spoils the game if removed.
The whole concept of D&D is about adventurers going on dangerous quests, risking their life for some purpose, wether its glory, fame, wealth or any manner of personal justification. Being dangerous however is the absolute most vital and important cornerstone of D&D, without that the game loses its most precious element, the anxiety of risk. Imagine what would happen if as a DM you told them, don’t worry no one will die in this campaign, I will always find a way to save you. How excited do you think they would be about the game? How excited would you be to participate in a game like that?
My advice is, kill the character and know that you didn’t kill him, the game killed him and that happens in D&D, it must happen. Show them that the game is dangerous, your characters can die and the DM is not affraid to let it happen. You’ll be doing your game a great service. Save this character now, especially in an obvious ”I’m the DM, I’ll save you” way and your game will not only lose its most important element, but you’re players will lose respect for the game.
This, basically. I'm inclined to "save" a PC who played smartly and well but got some crappy dice roles. I'm not at all inclined to warp the narrative to save someone who's aggressively stupid. Once you start doing that, why would players ever feel good about playing smart?
By the end of the session he was down to 9 hit points. No cleric in the group, no one that can cast remove curse. The party is several days travel from the nearest temple.
The mummy rot will kill him after his next rest
Mummy rot reduces your Hit Point Maximum every 24 hrs, not your current Hit Points (i.e. "Hit Point Maximum" is a separate stat that is likely much higher than the PC's current HP). Your player probably has plenty of time left.
Very good point, I was off base on how the hp reduction worked. He does only have 9 HP left but if they think to keep him stocked up on temporary HP and he stops charging things, he just might make it.
Adventuring without risks is hardly adventuring. The fact of the matter is.. the bard does what he does because he doesn't fear death. If you step in to save him with some cheesy DM fiat thing to keep him alive, he will continue to do stupid stuff without any consequence.
Yeah I don't want to turn it into a "what you do is wrong, what I do is right" argument...
Then why did you do exactly that, and toss in your number of years playing as if to say that it proves you are right?
Your whole argument, and appeal to your experience as if no one could have similar amount of experience and a different opinion, is flawed because you are falsely equating no chance of character death with no chance of meaningful consequences.
With resurrection spells, one could argue that (barring TPK) death is already meaningless in a game. Revolving door, and all that. "Death" in a dnd game is really more of a "removed from play" situation, which, while a consequence in itself, is boring as sin if it lasts more than an hour or so. We game to have fun, after all.
Actions need consequences. That's important, and sometimes, the consequence is PC (temporary) death. But you need to balance that with having fun.
Thanks again all for the feedback. To answer a few questions/comments -
Are you friends with the person who’s going to die?
Yes, I'm friends with the player, who's character may die.
With resurrection spells, one could argue that (barring TPK) death is already meaningless in a game. Revolving door, and all that.
True but in this campaign 6th level + spells don't currently work (part of the master plot). If his body turns to dust the only available resurrection is the Reincarnate spell (spell says you need to touch a part of the old body but I'll rule touching some of the dust will be fine) - which changes race and appearance, so there is some significant consequence to this possible death.
And resolution:
I reached out to the player, they aren't trying to kill the character off intentionally (at least not right now). But he's going to be okay if the character does die. In fact, he says if the character dies he doesn't want to have it resurrected and he's working on a concept for an alt character just in case. So sounds like we are going to have a fun time next week no matter what happens!
I think in the scenario you described, you should probably let the character die. As others have said, it's part of the game and I think your group will ultimately enjoy it more knowing that their decisions really do matter. I DM one group and play in another. One thing that works for us, if a character dies, the player can roll up a new character of the same level as the killed PC.
That said, the fun of the game is paramount. Would your game be most fun if the character died epically, lived miraculously, or returned as an NPC in a surprising twist down the road?
Need some advice. I've been DMing a campaign for about the last 6 months now. My first time DMing in fifteen years, and the longest running campaign I've ever done. Characters have progressed from level 1 to level 7, about to hit 8. Last night one of the players finally did something that will almost surely kill their character very soon, without the possibility of easy resurrection.
I'm feeling really bad about the thought of killing this guy's character off, and I'm already thinking of ways I might step in and save him. Should I do it? If so how, while making an entertaining story out of it? Or, should I let the character die, the natural result of foolishness (by player and character both, really).
Here's the situation: The group encountered a dormant centaur mummy. The bard tried to jump on its back (bad move #1). It animated and attacked. The bard didn't move out of melee range (bad move #2). The party swarmed it. Just before it is about to go down the bard draws a non-magical rapier, yells "I regret nothing!", and attacks (again not moving away to use a spell or his magical crossbow, bad move #3). He misses. The centaur mummy attacks the bard, and rolls well, hitting him for 30 points of damage and successfully infecting him with mummy rot.
Because of the mummy rot, he can't heal. By the end of the session he was down to 9 hit points. No cleric in the group, no one that can cast remove curse. The party is several days travel from the nearest temple.
The mummy rot will kill him after his next rest, and turn his body to dust. His only real chance (other than me making up something new) is if the party defeats the boss coming up next session they will earn a remove curse scroll as part of the treasure - but they are all hurt and low on spells, without a long rest (which will kill the bard from mummy rot) they are likely to lose the boss fight. And, with only 9 hp remaining, the bard is likely to die in the boss fight anyway.
I have told the players several times that they may encounter things that are too powerful for them to fight, I've told them they characters could die in this campaign, yet this is only the latest in a string of rash moves by the bard. (Which is great fun generally).
So what would you do? If he turns to dust the only way he comes back is in a new body, via a Reincarnation spell because in the campaign there's a dimming effect on magic in the world that prevents spells of 6th level+ from working, so no possibility of Resurrection, True Resurrection, Wish, etc. Even then they will need to find a druid to cast it as the party's druid won't be able to for 2 move levels.
Ask the player if he was trying to get his character killed.
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Is the adventure that you are running for your party The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan by chance? I only ask because that's about the only place I've ever really seen a centaur mummy used. If that is the case, in area 42 there is a couatl that is trapped and might be willing to reward the party with some sort of curse lifting magic if it is freed. Either that our you could swap out the potion of healing that is the reward for the trials in that room for some sort of mystical potion that fully cures the bard.
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D&D Beyond FoundersIt does sound like the player is trying to get his character killed, so may be worth talking to them about that, before the next session.
You've actually got a really interesting situation though that can cause some really interesting group roleplay.
You can describe the mummy rot and how it is spreading across the bard. Maybe allow characters a medicine roll to determine roughly how long the bard has left before death.
They can then decide - do they want to take that long rest before pushing on, knowing that it will condemn a member of the party to death?
Just be prepared that, to save the life of the bard, they may push on into the boss fight without resting, so it could get more than just the bard killed.
Personally, I would play it out and see how it goes.
If you're concerned about killing the entire party, you could always use some DM fiat to assist them in other ways against the boss.
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Solid advice, I am reaching out to the player to talk out of game about what they want - from the start of the campaign I've wanted things to be very player driven and collaborative - I'll find out what the player has in mind and we can go from there.
Love the suggestions from all for how to make some entertaining RP situations come out of this as well. Thanks!
So long as "your character will not die" is not accompanied with "your character will never fail at something and have consequences of that failure", player's can be very excited about the game - there are a whole bunch of things that can happen to characters other than death to keep the game exciting, and maintain the important element of risk/danger.
Whether or not death is a possible outcome is 100% a preference thing, not some kind of mandatory element that spoils the game if removed.
Adventuring without risks is hardly adventuring. The fact of the matter is.. the bard does what he does because he doesn't fear death. If you step in to save him with some cheesy DM fiat thing to keep him alive, he will continue to do stupid stuff without any consequence.
Then why did you do exactly that, and toss in your number of years playing as if to say that it proves you are right?
Your whole argument, and appeal to your experience as if no one could have similar amount of experience and a different opinion, is flawed because you are falsely equating no chance of character death with no chance of meaningful consequences.
With resurrection spells, one could argue that (barring TPK) death is already meaningless in a game. Revolving door, and all that. "Death" in a dnd game is really more of a "removed from play" situation, which, while a consequence in itself, is boring as sin if it lasts more than an hour or so. We game to have fun, after all.
Actions need consequences. That's important, and sometimes, the consequence is PC (temporary) death. But you need to balance that with having fun.
Turn him into a corpse...next
Thanks again all for the feedback. To answer a few questions/comments -
Are you friends with the person who’s going to die?
Yes, I'm friends with the player, who's character may die.
With resurrection spells, one could argue that (barring TPK) death is already meaningless in a game. Revolving door, and all that.
True but in this campaign 6th level + spells don't currently work (part of the master plot). If his body turns to dust the only available resurrection is the Reincarnate spell (spell says you need to touch a part of the old body but I'll rule touching some of the dust will be fine) - which changes race and appearance, so there is some significant consequence to this possible death.
And resolution:
I reached out to the player, they aren't trying to kill the character off intentionally (at least not right now). But he's going to be okay if the character does die. In fact, he says if the character dies he doesn't want to have it resurrected and he's working on a concept for an alt character just in case. So sounds like we are going to have a fun time next week no matter what happens!
I think in the scenario you described, you should probably let the character die. As others have said, it's part of the game and I think your group will ultimately enjoy it more knowing that their decisions really do matter. I DM one group and play in another. One thing that works for us, if a character dies, the player can roll up a new character of the same level as the killed PC.
That said, the fun of the game is paramount. Would your game be most fun if the character died epically, lived miraculously, or returned as an NPC in a surprising twist down the road?