Hey everyone. I'm currently running LMoP with a young Aarakocra Monk, a sadistic lone wolf Rogue, and a middle aged quiet Tiefling Sorcerer. All new players.
Only two sessions in and the Rogue has already tried to steal, kill and threaten other members of the party, as well as tricked them into leaving him to collect a huge gold reward for himself. So, as the rest of the party returns to Phandalin (from the cave), the Rogue tried to get the supplies for himself. After several failed attempts, he returned to town and wanted to set something on fire. After asking around for old buildings he decided on the Tresender Manor (early that day the rest of the party had decided to make that their base). As the rest of the party is in the cellars of the Manor, the Rogue is setting the Manor on fire.
TLDR: I'm dealing with players who keep splitting the party and a Rogue with destructive lone wolf tendencies.
I need help on how to bring the party together and unite them in one purpose.
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
I almost didn’t bother reading more than “sadistic lone wolf rogue” since I bet myself I already knew the problem when you wrote that. Turns out yes, I did know.
This requires an out of character conversation with the rogue’s player. Tell them to stop. They are making the game not be fun for the others at the table (your fun counts, too). Tell them if they don’t stop, you will be forced to remove them from the game. It’s blunt and it’s not nice and it’s a bit confrontational, but it is the only real way to end it. And, btw, the player will likely try to give you some nonsense about “that’s what my character would do.” Then you tell them they have two choices: either the character has an epiphany and realizes they shouldn’t be a jerk, or they make a new character who is not a jerk.
talk to the rogue player, stealing from and threatening to kill the other characters is a big no, and its sounds like they are playing quite selfishly, by taking all the gold for himself.
it sounds like the rogue is the only one splitting off, and is doing things that hinder play (setting the parties new base on fire, tricking them, threatening them, hoarding gold), so talk to that player and say, 'can you please stop, its not fun for the rest of the group'. They are playing a multiplayer game like a single player one, and its not good.
To bring them together maybe when they next leave their base, doing the next quest, have a future boss or powerful enemy attack Phanadlin or the manor, so the players try to find out who did it, and then at an appropriate level, go out and stop them.
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"The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game" - Dungeon Masters Guide
This came up in another thread here. The answer is that sometimes the unspoken rules need to be spoken.
"Look, friends, this is a social game. A group of people around the table. There's a social construct that we all have to agree to - this is a group activity. We allhave the responsibility for the fun of all of us around the table. Splitting the party is not fun for everyone else who sits there dong nothing while one half the table gets the GM's time. Stealing from other characters is not fun for the players of those characters. Killing quest givers is not fun for the GM who spent an hour planning the adventure. If you are only interested in your own fun then please go play a CRPG or FPS."
In my games I am very clear about this. We follow Wheaton's Law - Don't be a dick.
In the OP's above, setting fire to the manor while the other PCs are in it is plain and simple a dick move. Just tell the player "No".
Personally, I have an unbreakable rule of "no evil characters." If you want to play evil, go to another table. I don't want to GM those characters, and I'm pretty sure I'd be bad at it. That is a personal decision, however, other GMs have their own feelings.
The other posters cover a lot of it - you need to talk to the rogue PLAYER and tell him to change.
Think about it this way, in any sort of real world, the other two characters in the party would NEVER choose to travel with the psychotic rogue. "tried to steal, kill and threaten other members of the party"? That isn't a party - could you imagine EVER traveling with a person who stole from you, threatened you and tried to kill you. No. In the D&D world, you'd either head in the other direction as fast as possible or someone would kill the rogue in their sleep just to be rid of him.
Finally, one rule that should usually be brought up in a session 0 is NO PVP. Player vs player interactions are likely one of the fastest ways to ending a campaign and possibly generating bad feelings towards the other players. No one needs that in a cooperative social game. If the players AGREE to roleplay a PVP situation because they both think it would be fun and it is what their characters would do then great ... otherwise, avoid PVP entirely ... this can often be assisted by banning evil alignments. Evil alignments and new players are often a recipe for disaster in terms of game play.
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
@Roguish_Archer if you don't mind my asking what age group are your players particularly rogue PC player?
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“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Thanks for the reply Roguish_Archer I guess that tallies with my preconception of some the social dynamic that might be going on. It's rather the age group challenging the norms trying things out and figuring things out. Think in an older age group you would have had quite some push back from the other players to this behaviour.
My first introduction the ADnD was about in that age group... oh my god it was dreadful... think everyone was chaotic evil the dm was playing his own lv 20 character and the first and only session revolved around going to a pub and the dm's character killing a pc (of the not so cool player).
You've already gotten good advice and I fully support it. LMoP is a real classic adventure a DM can easily add their own flare to if they want and I had a load of fun running it as my first 5E campaign
wishing you the best of luck, may you're rogue player come round and want to play some DnD with friends
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Some type of celestial will visit him in his room at the inn, give him a talk about how valuable friends are and how his friends could have helped him with the thing that's about to happen. Three Redbrands barge into his room and demand to know why he set the manor on fire, kidnap him and the other PC's find him in the dungeon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
It's an nice thematic idea @Roguish_Archer for a nudge solution but I fear your not facing a thematic problem that can be nudged ingame... it's a fundamental I'm playing with other people playing characters who want to work as a team disconnect problem
I think you really need to clear it with the player in question that the campaign your are running is a team game with a group of adventures fighting together to overcome just some of the multitude of dark and powerful forces in the forgotten realms
haveing a lone wolf ass hole in the group is not fun and you'll be able to count on one hand how many sessions the campaign lasts before players start not having time because getting shat on by lone wolf ass hole each session is proving less fun then just staying at home and punching yourself in the face
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Justin explained it very well, but the shorter version is: don’t try to solve out of game problems with in game consequences. The opposite is also true.
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Hey everyone. I'm currently running LMoP with a young Aarakocra Monk, a sadistic lone wolf Rogue, and a middle aged quiet Tiefling Sorcerer. All new players.
Only two sessions in and the Rogue has already tried to steal, kill and threaten other members of the party, as well as tricked them into leaving him to collect a huge gold reward for himself. So, as the rest of the party returns to Phandalin (from the cave), the Rogue tried to get the supplies for himself. After several failed attempts, he returned to town and wanted to set something on fire. After asking around for old buildings he decided on the Tresender Manor (early that day the rest of the party had decided to make that their base). As the rest of the party is in the cellars of the Manor, the Rogue is setting the Manor on fire.
TLDR: I'm dealing with players who keep splitting the party and a Rogue with destructive lone wolf tendencies.
I need help on how to bring the party together and unite them in one purpose.
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
I almost didn’t bother reading more than “sadistic lone wolf rogue” since I bet myself I already knew the problem when you wrote that. Turns out yes, I did know.
This requires an out of character conversation with the rogue’s player. Tell them to stop. They are making the game not be fun for the others at the table (your fun counts, too). Tell them if they don’t stop, you will be forced to remove them from the game. It’s blunt and it’s not nice and it’s a bit confrontational, but it is the only real way to end it.
And, btw, the player will likely try to give you some nonsense about “that’s what my character would do.” Then you tell them they have two choices: either the character has an epiphany and realizes they shouldn’t be a jerk, or they make a new character who is not a jerk.
talk to the rogue player, stealing from and threatening to kill the other characters is a big no, and its sounds like they are playing quite selfishly, by taking all the gold for himself.
it sounds like the rogue is the only one splitting off, and is doing things that hinder play (setting the parties new base on fire, tricking them, threatening them, hoarding gold), so talk to that player and say, 'can you please stop, its not fun for the rest of the group'. They are playing a multiplayer game like a single player one, and its not good.
To bring them together maybe when they next leave their base, doing the next quest, have a future boss or powerful enemy attack Phanadlin or the manor, so the players try to find out who did it, and then at an appropriate level, go out and stop them.
"The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game" - Dungeon Masters Guide
This came up in another thread here. The answer is that sometimes the unspoken rules need to be spoken.
"Look, friends, this is a social game. A group of people around the table. There's a social construct that we all have to agree to - this is a group activity. We all have the responsibility for the fun of all of us around the table. Splitting the party is not fun for everyone else who sits there dong nothing while one half the table gets the GM's time. Stealing from other characters is not fun for the players of those characters. Killing quest givers is not fun for the GM who spent an hour planning the adventure. If you are only interested in your own fun then please go play a CRPG or FPS."
In my games I am very clear about this. We follow Wheaton's Law - Don't be a dick.
In the OP's above, setting fire to the manor while the other PCs are in it is plain and simple a dick move. Just tell the player "No".
Personally, I have an unbreakable rule of "no evil characters." If you want to play evil, go to another table. I don't want to GM those characters, and I'm pretty sure I'd be bad at it. That is a personal decision, however, other GMs have their own feelings.
The other posters cover a lot of it - you need to talk to the rogue PLAYER and tell him to change.
Think about it this way, in any sort of real world, the other two characters in the party would NEVER choose to travel with the psychotic rogue. "tried to steal, kill and threaten other members of the party"? That isn't a party - could you imagine EVER traveling with a person who stole from you, threatened you and tried to kill you. No. In the D&D world, you'd either head in the other direction as fast as possible or someone would kill the rogue in their sleep just to be rid of him.
Finally, one rule that should usually be brought up in a session 0 is NO PVP. Player vs player interactions are likely one of the fastest ways to ending a campaign and possibly generating bad feelings towards the other players. No one needs that in a cooperative social game. If the players AGREE to roleplay a PVP situation because they both think it would be fun and it is what their characters would do then great ... otherwise, avoid PVP entirely ... this can often be assisted by banning evil alignments. Evil alignments and new players are often a recipe for disaster in terms of game play.
Thanks everyone. This has helped a lot.
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
@Roguish_Archer if you don't mind my asking what age group are your players particularly rogue PC player?
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
13-17 The rogue is around the middle
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Thanks for the reply Roguish_Archer I guess that tallies with my preconception of some the social dynamic that might be going on. It's rather the age group challenging the norms trying things out and figuring things out. Think in an older age group you would have had quite some push back from the other players to this behaviour.
My first introduction the ADnD was about in that age group... oh my god it was dreadful... think everyone was chaotic evil the dm was playing his own lv 20 character and the first and only session revolved around going to a pub and the dm's character killing a pc (of the not so cool player).
You've already gotten good advice and I fully support it. LMoP is a real classic adventure a DM can easily add their own flare to if they want and I had a load of fun running it as my first 5E campaign
wishing you the best of luck, may you're rogue player come round and want to play some DnD with friends
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
I've thought of something that might help.
Some type of celestial will visit him in his room at the inn, give him a talk about how valuable friends are and how his friends could have helped him with the thing that's about to happen. Three Redbrands barge into his room and demand to know why he set the manor on fire, kidnap him and the other PC's find him in the dungeon.
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
It's an nice thematic idea @Roguish_Archer for a nudge solution but I fear your not facing a thematic problem that can be nudged ingame... it's a fundamental I'm playing with other people playing characters who want to work as a team disconnect problem
I think you really need to clear it with the player in question that the campaign your are running is a team game with a group of adventures fighting together to overcome just some of the multitude of dark and powerful forces in the forgotten realms
haveing a lone wolf ass hole in the group is not fun and you'll be able to count on one hand how many sessions the campaign lasts before players start not having time because getting shat on by lone wolf ass hole each session is proving less fun then just staying at home and punching yourself in the face
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Ok, thanks
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Justin explained it very well, but the shorter version is: don’t try to solve out of game problems with in game consequences. The opposite is also true.