Once again, I think you’re missing the part that says, concerning the 4d10, “anything that touches the sphere but isn’t wholly engulfed and obliterated by it”. That is, it’s 4d10 for a “grazing blow”. Otherwise, it’s instadeath, which appears to be infinitely more damage than any spell. I fail to see how total obliteration is not “wayy cooler” for a legendary item that does what it says on the packaging.
Those two things are what allows it to be as powerful as it is without having limited usage via charges or the like.
3- less damage than low level spell
How so? Cantrips - the nearest equivalent thanks to each only taking an action and not being limited in times you can use it per day - deal roughly the same damage if the caster is 17th+ level.
Shoud be waaaay cooler !!
If it were any "cooler" the party would never survive to be able to use it, so comparing it to character abilities wouldn't even make sense. Because what JCAUDM pointed out that I initially overlooked is very important; the damage is only used for circumstances of barely touching the thing - the "classic" death trap where the orb is sitting in a dark hollow that looks like some kind of entryway that characters will deliberately enter is still an instant death sentence.
OK actually have a keyboard now not trying to type on chiclets...
Acererak has the talisman & the sphere and clearly this is a deadly encounter. He can move it around and use it to try to wipe out the PCs in creative ways (through walls, floors, pillars) or simply try to drop it on them, pin them somewhere with it, have minions push or shove them to fall into it... the options are endless.
4d10 is a waste of an action for Ace. There are cooler ways to use the sphere!
It would similarly be a "waste of action" for Acererak to use most the legendary items on the books given the options such a powerful creature has for its actions, so I'm still not seeing where there is an issue.
I fail to see your concern. The dex save would indicate that a regular person is clearly going to attempt to evade without touching. It is a 2 foot diameter sphere, it’s not like a gelatinous cube that will fill every inch of a corridor. Given 5 foot spaces, it is evadable with 1.5 feet clearance on each side. There is a point at which I’d start ruling certain situations inescapable from an approaching sphere, at least not without great cost, such as specially built trap corridors or if somehow they were in a ventilation system or if the person was restrained or unconscious. The only low level spell I can think of that can do repeatable damage of that scale is call lightning. The sphere can damage potentially multiple targets without concentration or an end duration. Other things to note are that items could be obliterated by the sphere if they fit. Daggers, small and medium-sized weapons, shields, quivers, pieces of armour, gp, spellbooks, backpacks. I’m going to be rolling to see if someone who got hit by the sphere got hit in such a way as to lose an item within the total obliteration radius.
It would similarly be a "waste of action" for Acererak to use most the legendary items on the books given the options such a powerful creature has for its actions, so I'm still not seeing where there is an issue.
Wow genuflect when you say that fella..!
The sphere is cool, and it removes a PC (+ their equipment) from the fray permanently. It's a vicious, final attack that is worthy of the "villain", the adventure, and the name "Tomb of Annihilation".
In any case, was looking for cool uses of the sphere taking the finale of "ToA" into account (area 77). Annihilate the struts if PC standing on one, spread the lava, use talisman to hover it then drop, and so on. Looking forward to it, assuming gang survives to that point.
Technically if you look into the definition it says if you touch the sphere then it only deals 4d10 force damage, but DM to DM, the world you create is entirely in your control. Therefore, you could change the Sphere of Annihilation's damage, or otherwise make the rules different if you do not like the damage it deals. I personally think that the damage is fair, as the uses are limitless and the attacks with the Sphere of Annihilation are very hard to avoid. I have run many campaigns, and in some of them I have had the SoA(Sphere of Annihilation). Most of them I ended up killing one or ore of the PC's, and they were always 15th level or above in encounters with the SOA. Therefore, I believe that the SoA's rules are fair.
"...Anything else that touches the sphere but isn't wholly engulfed and obliterated by it takes 4d10 force damage."
Elsewhere in the description it says it's a two-foot diameter sphere, which is too small to completely engulf and obliterate a medium-sized creature. So from that reasoning, there's no insta-death unless it's a tiny creature, I guess. Just 4d10 force damage, which is kind of puny for a "sphere of annihilation" compared to, say, a dragon's breath weapon.
My reading is that, if you were able to somehow push someone through the sphere, they would instantly die.
If, however, you only move the sphere their way, they would be able to avoid it, either entirely or partially, in which case they would get gravely injured (reminder that 4d10 averages 22 damage, which is about the same damage as a 30ft fall*).
That's not even taking into account every out-of-combat use: you can instantly destroy anything you desire.
[EDIT] actually more like a 60-70 ft fall, as pointed out below.
Elsewhere in the description it says it's a two-foot diameter sphere, which is too small to completely engulf and obliterate a medium-sized creature. So from that reasoning, there's no insta-death unless it's a tiny creature, I guess. Just 4d10 force damage, which is kind of puny for a "sphere of annihilation" compared to, say, a dragon's breath weapon.
Let's see, a 2ft diameter sphere center mass on any creature would engulf their torso, that 2ft space would be obliterated. If 2ft of your torso was obliterated, I'd like to see how you survive that type of massive trauma. All of your internal organs gone, your armor, your pack, anything else inside that sphere, gone. If it goes high, you lose your head, can't really function without that. If it goes low, you lose your legs, now that may be survivable, but you're crippled, pretty much removing you from the fight in a number of ways.
Sure, you could go by the strictest of readings and say that SoA would never insta kill a medium sized creature or larger, but that is just a way to gimp the spell in favor of the players surviving a legendary item.
Acererak has the talisman & the sphere and clearly this is a deadly encounter. He can move it around and use it to try to wipe out the PCs in creative ways (through walls, floors, pillars) or simply try to drop it on them, pin them somewhere with it, have minions push or shove them to fall into it... the options are endless.
4d10 is a waste of an action for Ace. There are cooler ways to use the sphere!
I (and other DM's) have not found a way to make the Acererak encounter deadly (due the temp HP provided to the PC's each round).
The sphere must be moved in a straight line, and does 4d10 to anyone in that line (if they fail the relatively easy saving throw). "Wholly engulfing" is DM fiat, and I'm loathe to obliterate a PC based on DM fiat (plus: that's always an option even without the sphere). I would only feel comfortable adjudicating "Whole engulfment" if a creature was reduced to 0 HP by the sphere (or say, they purposefully jumped into it, like in Tomb of Horrors).
How would you treat the sphere if a PC was controlling it?
One problem with a sphere of annihilation is that ANYONE can try to control it with a contested Arcana check. The character/NPC currently needs to make a DC25 arcana check to get control of an uncontrolled sphere but after that is it just a contested roll with whoever comes out on top having control. Unless the NPC with control has an extremely high arcana skill (like Acerak), any 1 knowledge cleric/ X wizard will have a good chance of taking over control of the sphere. In fact, the Talisman of the sphere just gives you expertise in the arcana skill for control checks (and possibly the ability to move the sphere faster though the text of the talisman says you can "levitate" it farther which is pretty useless since levitate is only up and down usually).
Anyway, most PCs with one of these in their possession might quickly find it wrested from their control by NPC wizards.
Overall, it is pretty thematic but just not worth using in most circumstances. (It is also slow to move around and requires an action to do so ... so keeping it with you may also be a problem).
the text of the talisman says you can "levitate" it farther which is pretty useless since levitate is only up and down usually
The Talisman description is using the term "levitate" in the conventional sense (and is not referring to the Levitate spell). The Sphere description does the same thing: "On a success, the sphere levitates in one direction of your choice, up to a number of feet equal to 5 × your Intelligence modifier"
If, however, you only move the sphere their way, they would be able to avoid it, either entirely or partially, in which case they would get gravely injured (reminder that 4d10 averages 22 damage, which is about the same damage as a 30ft fall).
Max damage for a 30 ft fall is 18, to get equivalent damage you'd need a 60-70 ft fall.
If, however, you only move the sphere their way, they would be able to avoid it, either entirely or partially, in which case they would get gravely injured (reminder that 4d10 averages 22 damage, which is about the same damage as a 30ft fall).
Max damage for a 30 ft fall is 18, to get equivalent damage you'd need a 60-70 ft fall.
Woops! Indeed, I counted 1d6/5ft instead of 1d6/10ft... Which still means that it's very significant damage, and would indeed annihilate most people.
Think of it less like you tanking the Sphere of Annihilation and more like you failing to fully dodge it. If you have hitpoints remaining after it hits you, you dodged it, but it grazed you, or you exhausted yourself dodging it. I've read a few things about imagining damage in this way.
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Sphere of Annihilation
Is there some problem caused by it being 4d10 force damage rather than something else?
Seems like plenty of damage for a thing that is not limited in how often you can use it.
1- legendary item
2- takes an action
3- less damage than low level spell
Shoud be waaaay cooler !!
Thinking idea is more utility than attack on further reflection . Walls, floors, ceilings etc
Once again, I think you’re missing the part that says, concerning the 4d10, “anything that touches the sphere but isn’t wholly engulfed and obliterated by it”. That is, it’s 4d10 for a “grazing blow”. Otherwise, it’s instadeath, which appears to be infinitely more damage than any spell. I fail to see how total obliteration is not “wayy cooler” for a legendary item that does what it says on the packaging.
Those two things are what allows it to be as powerful as it is without having limited usage via charges or the like.
How so? Cantrips - the nearest equivalent thanks to each only taking an action and not being limited in times you can use it per day - deal roughly the same damage if the caster is 17th+ level.
If it were any "cooler" the party would never survive to be able to use it, so comparing it to character abilities wouldn't even make sense. Because what JCAUDM pointed out that I initially overlooked is very important; the damage is only used for circumstances of barely touching the thing - the "classic" death trap where the orb is sitting in a dark hollow that looks like some kind of entryway that characters will deliberately enter is still an instant death sentence.OK actually have a keyboard now not trying to type on chiclets...
Acererak has the talisman & the sphere and clearly this is a deadly encounter. He can move it around and use it to try to wipe out the PCs in creative ways (through walls, floors, pillars) or simply try to drop it on them, pin them somewhere with it, have minions push or shove them to fall into it... the options are endless.
4d10 is a waste of an action for Ace. There are cooler ways to use the sphere!
I fail to see your concern. The dex save would indicate that a regular person is clearly going to attempt to evade without touching. It is a 2 foot diameter sphere, it’s not like a gelatinous cube that will fill every inch of a corridor. Given 5 foot spaces, it is evadable with 1.5 feet clearance on each side. There is a point at which I’d start ruling certain situations inescapable from an approaching sphere, at least not without great cost, such as specially built trap corridors or if somehow they were in a ventilation system or if the person was restrained or unconscious. The only low level spell I can think of that can do repeatable damage of that scale is call lightning. The sphere can damage potentially multiple targets without concentration or an end duration. Other things to note are that items could be obliterated by the sphere if they fit. Daggers, small and medium-sized weapons, shields, quivers, pieces of armour, gp, spellbooks, backpacks. I’m going to be rolling to see if someone who got hit by the sphere got hit in such a way as to lose an item within the total obliteration radius.
Um... what?
Technically if you look into the definition it says if you touch the sphere then it only deals 4d10 force damage, but DM to DM, the world you create is entirely in your control. Therefore, you could change the Sphere of Annihilation's damage, or otherwise make the rules different if you do not like the damage it deals. I personally think that the damage is fair, as the uses are limitless and the attacks with the Sphere of Annihilation are very hard to avoid. I have run many campaigns, and in some of them I have had the SoA(Sphere of Annihilation). Most of them I ended up killing one or ore of the PC's, and they were always 15th level or above in encounters with the SOA. Therefore, I believe that the SoA's rules are fair.
Hmmmmm....
"...Anything else that touches the sphere but isn't wholly engulfed and obliterated by it takes 4d10 force damage."
Elsewhere in the description it says it's a two-foot diameter sphere, which is too small to completely engulf and obliterate a medium-sized creature. So from that reasoning, there's no insta-death unless it's a tiny creature, I guess. Just 4d10 force damage, which is kind of puny for a "sphere of annihilation" compared to, say, a dragon's breath weapon.
My reading is that, if you were able to somehow push someone through the sphere, they would instantly die.
If, however, you only move the sphere their way, they would be able to avoid it, either entirely or partially, in which case they would get gravely injured (reminder that 4d10 averages 22 damage, which is about the same damage as a 30ft fall*).
That's not even taking into account every out-of-combat use: you can instantly destroy anything you desire.
[EDIT] actually more like a 60-70 ft fall, as pointed out below.
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Let's see, a 2ft diameter sphere center mass on any creature would engulf their torso, that 2ft space would be obliterated. If 2ft of your torso was obliterated, I'd like to see how you survive that type of massive trauma. All of your internal organs gone, your armor, your pack, anything else inside that sphere, gone. If it goes high, you lose your head, can't really function without that. If it goes low, you lose your legs, now that may be survivable, but you're crippled, pretty much removing you from the fight in a number of ways.
Sure, you could go by the strictest of readings and say that SoA would never insta kill a medium sized creature or larger, but that is just a way to gimp the spell in favor of the players surviving a legendary item.
I (and other DM's) have not found a way to make the Acererak encounter deadly (due the temp HP provided to the PC's each round).
The sphere must be moved in a straight line, and does 4d10 to anyone in that line (if they fail the relatively easy saving throw). "Wholly engulfing" is DM fiat, and I'm loathe to obliterate a PC based on DM fiat (plus: that's always an option even without the sphere). I would only feel comfortable adjudicating "Whole engulfment" if a creature was reduced to 0 HP by the sphere (or say, they purposefully jumped into it, like in Tomb of Horrors).
How would you treat the sphere if a PC was controlling it?
One problem with a sphere of annihilation is that ANYONE can try to control it with a contested Arcana check. The character/NPC currently needs to make a DC25 arcana check to get control of an uncontrolled sphere but after that is it just a contested roll with whoever comes out on top having control. Unless the NPC with control has an extremely high arcana skill (like Acerak), any 1 knowledge cleric/ X wizard will have a good chance of taking over control of the sphere. In fact, the Talisman of the sphere just gives you expertise in the arcana skill for control checks (and possibly the ability to move the sphere faster though the text of the talisman says you can "levitate" it farther which is pretty useless since levitate is only up and down usually).
Anyway, most PCs with one of these in their possession might quickly find it wrested from their control by NPC wizards.
Overall, it is pretty thematic but just not worth using in most circumstances. (It is also slow to move around and requires an action to do so ... so keeping it with you may also be a problem).
The Talisman description is using the term "levitate" in the conventional sense (and is not referring to the Levitate spell). The Sphere description does the same thing: "On a success, the sphere levitates in one direction of your choice, up to a number of feet equal to 5 × your Intelligence modifier"
Max damage for a 30 ft fall is 18, to get equivalent damage you'd need a 60-70 ft fall.
Woops! Indeed, I counted 1d6/5ft instead of 1d6/10ft... Which still means that it's very significant damage, and would indeed annihilate most people.
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Think of it less like you tanking the Sphere of Annihilation and more like you failing to fully dodge it. If you have hitpoints remaining after it hits you, you dodged it, but it grazed you, or you exhausted yourself dodging it. I've read a few things about imagining damage in this way.