I'll start with a little bit of context. As a DM and father of a toddler, scheduling a regular game can be tough, especially as my players start to enter a similar stage of domesticity. I thought a bi-weekly game would work but it's ended up becoming monthly. In an attempt to try and play more often, I've been working on a new project to make things easier to schedule as well as introduce more players to the game as the trend moves closer into the spotlight.
My idea was to get about a dozen players, have each make their own characters, or maybe even two. From there, I would set a specific time, twice a month, and I'd have whatever players could first RSVP (ideally a mix of friends that have played with me for years and some new or first time players), would play for that session. This would, in theory, allow a regularly scheduled game while also allowing a lower level of commitment to domestic adults.
My main question is if anybody would have ideas on how to dole out XP? I've had several ideas ranging from doing milestone leveling up a certain number of games played, attempting to level the group as a whole at intervals, to giving out a set amount of experience every game played (allowing a sort of controlled pace of leveling).
So, have any other DM's run a game like this in the past? What did you do? Or does anybody have ideas or input? Or is this just a horrible idea and should I give up now?
I'm going to focus on what you asked about (xp) in just a second, but wanted to point out a couple other things you might want to consider. What you've described will work well for the players, but could be problematic for you as the DM if you're looking to have tightly tuned combat encounters. This is because the difference between 3 and 5 characters in a party is huge in terms of what they can take on. So the question becomes: are you going to created 4 variations on each encounter (which is a fair bit of work) or wing it, risking a TPK or a trivial encounter? Also what happens if 7 people show up one week and 2 the next? When will you know how many people are going to attend? The answers to this come down to your own gaming environment, but you should give some thought as to the details and be clear with the players in advance so everyone is on the same page.
Now, about XP, there are several potential ways you could handle it. I would recommend looking at page 260 of the DMG (which you probably already have):
You could go old-school and give out XP on a per-encounter basis. For combat encounters, the math is simple (if potentially tedious). Take XP values of creatures, add them together, divide by party members, and give out XP. For RP rewards, it can be more complex, but the DMG section above has some suggestions about it. This has the advantage of being really granular so the players will feel like they got XP based on what they achieved in a session. But it also is the most mechanically complex, hardest for you to track, and can sometimes leave players at just below a threshold which is a bit annoying
Using a session-based leveling system as you've described (and as touched on in the DMG on p. 261) is a reasonable idea. It's really easy for everyone to track, is 100% clear in terms of expectations and results, and keeps advancement moving even if the story stalls. My major issue with it, though, is exactly that: it feels highly divorced from what HAPPENED in the session. Say the party was set to solve a mystery, but they got sidetracked at the pub, wandered off in a random direction, and then ended up fighting among each other. And then they get the same reward as the time they snuck into the goblin camp, avoided all the guards with their genius plan, and took him out without anyone the wiser? It just feels a bit off.
One idea I've had is to assign each level a number of checkmarks: 1->2, 2->3 each take 1 checkmark, 3->4 takes 2 (you'll note those values are similar to the number of sessions to level up suggested in the above idea in the DMG). Then assign each story arc or turning point a checkmark(s). Once a player gets the right number of checkmarks, they level up. You might want to increase the number of checkmarks between levels by a factor of 2 or 3 and then hand out multiple per session to increase the granularity. What I like about this is that what happens matters. It is a bit more complex though, but probably less so than the XP based leveling system.
Back to your other ideas, leveling the group at intervals has advantages in terms of keeping everyone on an even keel. It means everyone can be useful, even if they've been gone for several sessions, and thus makes the session itself potentially more enjoyable. I'd say this detracts a little for the "campaign story arc" component since people level up without having done anything, but it might enhance the "session story arc". Another potential concern is that leveling up gradually is good for new players: they learn about one or two new abilities at a time. Going from a level 2 mage to a level 5 mage in one step could be really disorienting for a new player. How much that is a concern for you would depend on the makeup of the group.
Personally I'm a fan of the checkmarks thing, but the other options have their own advantages.
One finishing thought I have is in regards to how you design the story the players will be experiencing. Because you'll be using a rotating cast of characters, it will be highly problematic to have a complex story arc which spans many game sessions. That's not to say you can't have recurring characters or a persistent world. Just that you can't expect any given player to remember that 3 sessions ago they were given a hint that Princess Bluebell was being held in the Cavern of Stone and the password was dandelion. The players who were in one game might not be in the other. Thus you'll probably want to have adventure arcs that finish in a session or two so that people can experience a full story with minimal commitment. Additionally, I would strongly encourage you to deal with leveling and shopping out of game. Leveling is individual and shopping is too, mostly. And while shopping interactions can be interesting RP over the long-term I think you'd be better off focusing on the story (the part that gives XP to come back to your initial question) so that the amount of story/xp is balanced between sessions.
I think the idea of a larger group of potential players, who sign up for given nights is a good idea. I've seen other DMs share that they take this approach.
My situation, while not the same, shares some similarities. I run an AL style (but not AL legal) game weekly at the library. From week to week I never know who I will have. I've been doling out XP on a per encounter basis, but with this modification: Every player needs to be within one level of everyone else at the table. For example, the first character who reached level 5 triggered the rule: anyone who was level 3 or below leveled up to level 4. (I instituted the rule when the highest level characters were level 4, nearing level 5) When somebody hits level 6, all the folks still at level 4 will level up to level 5. This rewards those who are able to be present more, without penalizing those who can't too much. And there isn't a huge disparity in power during combat. Narratively, the idea is they were off doing other things and earning XP.
A set amount of XP per night would certainly make the math easier than adding it up for each encounter, and would even out XP across sessions. But you might want to think about how folks (especially new players) could feel if they are several levels behind because they haven't been able to make it (or didn't RSVP soon enough).
Another thing to consider in this format (unless you are running isolated one shots) is how to explain/address the constantly changing makeup of the party. One idea I've seen is to use the concept of a mercenary/adventurer's guild; each session involves a different guild "job offer" and a different mix of folks. I'm running TOA at the library, and we have used several different plot devices to cover this. The group previously encountered a fey dog named Pondi who likes to play games. So our primary device (at their suggestion) is that Pondi kidnaps/returns characters. I have a backup DM, who DMs when I'm away or when we have too many for one table. He created an NPC who manufactures magic items and hires the party to find ingredients for him. Doing so gives him a reason to run side quests of his own devising when he's running the table, but it also provides a way to bring characters in or remove them, as the wizard can teleport members of the party to run his errands or to bring them back. We've also used the plot device of having new characters (or ones who hadn't yet played in the TOA adventure) being prisoners or lost adventurers.
Let me try and explain some more of what I had in mind for the project. I've been rolling for almost seven years with more or less the same group. There are maybe five or six people that have been around for almost each of my campaigns (I usually try to have one or two new people each campaign to introduce more people). I wanted to get all of my vets and maybe half a dozen new people, and plan games every two weeks since writing has become tougher the older I get. That way a week before every game, I'd put out the RSVP and see who can make it and try to build a table of five people, ideally having two to three new people/vets each time. As far as actual story, that's the easiest part. I have so many hooks, arcs, and plot lines stored up my main problem will be chopping them up into more edible episodes. I'm hoping that as we play and I use small monster-of-the-week episodes, I'll get a feel for each of the players. That way, I can focus in on which players just want to smash goblins and which ones want more story focused experience.
It would take place in a homebrew canon setting, a sort of post-post-apocalypse. I've got several "catastrophic" scenarios that could have ended the world, but a portion of the population managed to trickle down into dwarven cities. After a very long time, a group of people go back to the surface to try and resettle it. I'd have the players pick up about three generations after the first overworld city has been established. The idea being that the city is getting small with all the people, so I would build a league of sorts of adventurers tasked with exploring this new world. Every session would be a stand alone adventure and as the characters did more, I could build individual hooks in.
I'm a big fan of the checkmark system. I like the idea of something that would allow people to sort of level together, like the higher you get, the longer it gets so it plateaus and lets others catch up. It might be a thing I have to play out. The trick would be to figure out the right standard of XP.
Hi, I enjoyed reading this. I would like to contribute a couple thoughts:
It sounds like the checkmark system may be right for you, I would also encourage you not to worry about exactly how it works so much. The important thing is that the players feel like they got a reward for they did. In some of my campaigns I kept track of everyone's XP to make sure they leveled up when I wanted them to. Nobody ever noticed what I was doing either, it doesn't have to be fair for everyone to have fun.
Also ArwensDaughter has a great idea in regards to the backup GM. I had a surprise game of 12 players once (everyone brought their boyfriend/girlfriend/visiting friends to play without asking first.) It was crazy, but we split the group into two teams and they played through two dungeons simultaneously and separately. Then I brought everyone together in the end to team up and fight a dragon. I think you should have a buddy ready with a backup quest/dungeon to split your group up if too many people show up.
Last thought: You mentioned that you have been playing with the more or less the same people for seven years, you will probably find that a group of new players don't deserve so much thought and creative energy. Even if you have a couple of your veterans there to help them out, for the first few sessions they are just going to keep forgetting how their powers work and keep asking which die to roll. I think you have a great idea for a world, that is probably enough to hook new people without you doing too much work.
It's really encouraging to hear all the positive feedback, thanks guys!
When it comes to down to it, encounters are probably the thing I'm least worried about. In all the time I've been rolling, I've found my players have a really good time the less stringent I am with rules and we focus on having a "visually" dynamic fight. I'm a big fan of letting the rules slide to make sure the table is having a good time. I've made a habit of just fudging numbers to make the fights exciting, using the stat blocks more as inspiration for interesting approaches and strategy in fights.
The backup DM is a really good idea, and one that might end up happening naturally on it's own. The game I'm currently running is a continuation of the canon I started years ago. There's actually another friend of mine who's running a game in the same canon. It's something the group is kind of used to, and everybody has a little experience with DMing. Several years ago, we were all hungover on New Years day and wanted to roll but I didn't have a book prepared, so we ended up creating a short form based on 2e and we each traded DMing every hour. Every once in awhile we jump back into that style of play and it's basis of this project, with the idea to have a pool of players coming from my wife.
Again, I really appreciate all the feedback, it's really good to hear from other DM's.
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I'll start with a little bit of context. As a DM and father of a toddler, scheduling a regular game can be tough, especially as my players start to enter a similar stage of domesticity. I thought a bi-weekly game would work but it's ended up becoming monthly. In an attempt to try and play more often, I've been working on a new project to make things easier to schedule as well as introduce more players to the game as the trend moves closer into the spotlight.
My idea was to get about a dozen players, have each make their own characters, or maybe even two. From there, I would set a specific time, twice a month, and I'd have whatever players could first RSVP (ideally a mix of friends that have played with me for years and some new or first time players), would play for that session. This would, in theory, allow a regularly scheduled game while also allowing a lower level of commitment to domestic adults.
My main question is if anybody would have ideas on how to dole out XP? I've had several ideas ranging from doing milestone leveling up a certain number of games played, attempting to level the group as a whole at intervals, to giving out a set amount of experience every game played (allowing a sort of controlled pace of leveling).
So, have any other DM's run a game like this in the past? What did you do? Or does anybody have ideas or input? Or is this just a horrible idea and should I give up now?
I'm going to focus on what you asked about (xp) in just a second, but wanted to point out a couple other things you might want to consider. What you've described will work well for the players, but could be problematic for you as the DM if you're looking to have tightly tuned combat encounters. This is because the difference between 3 and 5 characters in a party is huge in terms of what they can take on. So the question becomes: are you going to created 4 variations on each encounter (which is a fair bit of work) or wing it, risking a TPK or a trivial encounter? Also what happens if 7 people show up one week and 2 the next? When will you know how many people are going to attend? The answers to this come down to your own gaming environment, but you should give some thought as to the details and be clear with the players in advance so everyone is on the same page.
Now, about XP, there are several potential ways you could handle it. I would recommend looking at page 260 of the DMG (which you probably already have):
Personally I'm a fan of the checkmarks thing, but the other options have their own advantages.
One finishing thought I have is in regards to how you design the story the players will be experiencing. Because you'll be using a rotating cast of characters, it will be highly problematic to have a complex story arc which spans many game sessions. That's not to say you can't have recurring characters or a persistent world. Just that you can't expect any given player to remember that 3 sessions ago they were given a hint that Princess Bluebell was being held in the Cavern of Stone and the password was dandelion. The players who were in one game might not be in the other. Thus you'll probably want to have adventure arcs that finish in a session or two so that people can experience a full story with minimal commitment. Additionally, I would strongly encourage you to deal with leveling and shopping out of game. Leveling is individual and shopping is too, mostly. And while shopping interactions can be interesting RP over the long-term I think you'd be better off focusing on the story (the part that gives XP to come back to your initial question) so that the amount of story/xp is balanced between sessions.
I think the idea of a larger group of potential players, who sign up for given nights is a good idea. I've seen other DMs share that they take this approach.
My situation, while not the same, shares some similarities. I run an AL style (but not AL legal) game weekly at the library. From week to week I never know who I will have. I've been doling out XP on a per encounter basis, but with this modification: Every player needs to be within one level of everyone else at the table. For example, the first character who reached level 5 triggered the rule: anyone who was level 3 or below leveled up to level 4. (I instituted the rule when the highest level characters were level 4, nearing level 5) When somebody hits level 6, all the folks still at level 4 will level up to level 5. This rewards those who are able to be present more, without penalizing those who can't too much. And there isn't a huge disparity in power during combat. Narratively, the idea is they were off doing other things and earning XP.
A set amount of XP per night would certainly make the math easier than adding it up for each encounter, and would even out XP across sessions. But you might want to think about how folks (especially new players) could feel if they are several levels behind because they haven't been able to make it (or didn't RSVP soon enough).
Another thing to consider in this format (unless you are running isolated one shots) is how to explain/address the constantly changing makeup of the party. One idea I've seen is to use the concept of a mercenary/adventurer's guild; each session involves a different guild "job offer" and a different mix of folks. I'm running TOA at the library, and we have used several different plot devices to cover this. The group previously encountered a fey dog named Pondi who likes to play games. So our primary device (at their suggestion) is that Pondi kidnaps/returns characters. I have a backup DM, who DMs when I'm away or when we have too many for one table. He created an NPC who manufactures magic items and hires the party to find ingredients for him. Doing so gives him a reason to run side quests of his own devising when he's running the table, but it also provides a way to bring characters in or remove them, as the wizard can teleport members of the party to run his errands or to bring them back. We've also used the plot device of having new characters (or ones who hadn't yet played in the TOA adventure) being prisoners or lost adventurers.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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Let me try and explain some more of what I had in mind for the project. I've been rolling for almost seven years with more or less the same group. There are maybe five or six people that have been around for almost each of my campaigns (I usually try to have one or two new people each campaign to introduce more people). I wanted to get all of my vets and maybe half a dozen new people, and plan games every two weeks since writing has become tougher the older I get. That way a week before every game, I'd put out the RSVP and see who can make it and try to build a table of five people, ideally having two to three new people/vets each time. As far as actual story, that's the easiest part. I have so many hooks, arcs, and plot lines stored up my main problem will be chopping them up into more edible episodes. I'm hoping that as we play and I use small monster-of-the-week episodes, I'll get a feel for each of the players. That way, I can focus in on which players just want to smash goblins and which ones want more story focused experience.
It would take place in a homebrew canon setting, a sort of post-post-apocalypse. I've got several "catastrophic" scenarios that could have ended the world, but a portion of the population managed to trickle down into dwarven cities. After a very long time, a group of people go back to the surface to try and resettle it. I'd have the players pick up about three generations after the first overworld city has been established. The idea being that the city is getting small with all the people, so I would build a league of sorts of adventurers tasked with exploring this new world. Every session would be a stand alone adventure and as the characters did more, I could build individual hooks in.
I'm a big fan of the checkmark system. I like the idea of something that would allow people to sort of level together, like the higher you get, the longer it gets so it plateaus and lets others catch up. It might be a thing I have to play out. The trick would be to figure out the right standard of XP.
Sounds like you've thought through a lot of the mechanics. Hope it goes well!
Hi, I enjoyed reading this. I would like to contribute a couple thoughts:
It sounds like the checkmark system may be right for you, I would also encourage you not to worry about exactly how it works so much. The important thing is that the players feel like they got a reward for they did. In some of my campaigns I kept track of everyone's XP to make sure they leveled up when I wanted them to. Nobody ever noticed what I was doing either, it doesn't have to be fair for everyone to have fun.
Also ArwensDaughter has a great idea in regards to the backup GM. I had a surprise game of 12 players once (everyone brought their boyfriend/girlfriend/visiting friends to play without asking first.) It was crazy, but we split the group into two teams and they played through two dungeons simultaneously and separately. Then I brought everyone together in the end to team up and fight a dragon. I think you should have a buddy ready with a backup quest/dungeon to split your group up if too many people show up.
Last thought: You mentioned that you have been playing with the more or less the same people for seven years, you will probably find that a group of new players don't deserve so much thought and creative energy. Even if you have a couple of your veterans there to help them out, for the first few sessions they are just going to keep forgetting how their powers work and keep asking which die to roll. I think you have a great idea for a world, that is probably enough to hook new people without you doing too much work.
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It's really encouraging to hear all the positive feedback, thanks guys!
When it comes to down to it, encounters are probably the thing I'm least worried about. In all the time I've been rolling, I've found my players have a really good time the less stringent I am with rules and we focus on having a "visually" dynamic fight. I'm a big fan of letting the rules slide to make sure the table is having a good time. I've made a habit of just fudging numbers to make the fights exciting, using the stat blocks more as inspiration for interesting approaches and strategy in fights.
The backup DM is a really good idea, and one that might end up happening naturally on it's own. The game I'm currently running is a continuation of the canon I started years ago. There's actually another friend of mine who's running a game in the same canon. It's something the group is kind of used to, and everybody has a little experience with DMing. Several years ago, we were all hungover on New Years day and wanted to roll but I didn't have a book prepared, so we ended up creating a short form based on 2e and we each traded DMing every hour. Every once in awhile we jump back into that style of play and it's basis of this project, with the idea to have a pool of players coming from my wife.
Again, I really appreciate all the feedback, it's really good to hear from other DM's.