So I ran into an issue where a player isn't happy with how any of the spell casting classes work. I'm usually open to player suggestions because I want everyone to have a good time at my table, but this player has two issues.
The first one is how spell slots work, or rather the lack of an ability to restore a spent spell slots without a long rest. Basically they want a potion that restores one spell slots as opposed to taking a long rest because "in the heat of battle, I can't run out of spell slots." So they proposed a potion that restores one spell slots. And when I said that's a little overpowered, they suggested making the potions rare and expensive to help balance it out and I'm still not sure I like this idea of a spell slots potion.
The second thing they don't like is how many spells they get. They feel a spell casting class needs more spells and spell slots. They proposed adding more spells and slots at first level, and keeping that number higher as they level up. Again, I don't know about this.
So what do you think? I'm not trying to say no to this player, but I'm also not trying to bend the rules here and making spell casters overpowered. The magical classes need to be balanced versus all other classes/characters in my game. Is there a way you can think of that I can make this player happy without adding spell slots potions or more spells and spell slots? Or would simply accepting their suggestions be best? I'm honestly not sure because it's not their first time playing D&D. They're not new to the game, they just don't like the limits imposed on spell casters.
I want the player to feel their voice has been heard, but it's hard when they want the rules to broken.
For most of this, I feel it is more the player not understanding how any of the spellcasting classes work and also not understanding that they have access to all kinds of magic even without spell slots.
For Wizards:
Spell Slots. The Wizard Features table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your level 1+ spells. You regain all expended slots when you finish a Long Rest.
Ritual Adept
You can cast any spell as a Ritual if that spell has the Ritual tag and the spell is in your spellbook. You needn’t have the spell prepared, but you must read from the book to cast a spell in this way.
Arcane Recovery
You can regain some of your magical energy by studying your spellbook. When you finish a Short Rest, you can choose expended spell slots to recover. The spell slots can have a combined level equal to no more than half your Wizard level (round up), and none of the slots can be level 6 or higher. For example, if you’re a level 4 Wizard, you can recover up to two levels’ worth of spell slots, regaining either one level 2 spell slot or two level 1 spell slots.
Once you use this feature, you can’t do so again until you finish a Long Rest.
So they have the ability to regain some spell slots on a short rest and also cast ritual spells without spell slots.
For Sorcerers:
Spell Slots. The Sorcerer Features table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your level 1+ spells. You regain all expended slots when you finish a Long Rest.
Font of Magic
You can tap into the wellspring of magic within yourself. This wellspring is represented by Sorcery Points, which allow you to create a variety of magical effects.
You have 2 Sorcery Points, and you gain more as you reach higher levels, as shown in the Sorcery Points column of the Sorcerer Features table. You can’t have more Sorcery Points than the number shown in the table for your level. You regain all expended Sorcery Points when you finish a Long Rest.
You can use your Sorcery Points to fuel the options below, along with other features, such as Metamagic, that use those points.
Converting Spell Slots to Sorcery Points. You can expend a spell slot to gain a number of Sorcery Points equal to the slot’s level (no action required).
Creating Spell Slots. As a Bonus Action, you can transform unexpended Sorcery Points into one spell slot. The Creating Spell Slots table shows the cost of creating a spell slot of a given level, and it lists the minimum Sorcerer level you must be to create a slot. You can create a spell slot no higher than level 5.
Any spell slot you create with this feature vanishes when you finish a Long Rest.
They have the ability to convert their spell points into more spell slots as needed as Bonus Actions.
For Warlocks:
Spell Slots. The Warlock Features table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your Warlock spells of levels 1–5. The table also shows the level of those slots, all of which are the same level. You regain all expended Pact Magic spell slots when you finish a Short or Long Rest.
Magical Cunning
You can perform an esoteric rite for 1 minute. At the end of it, you regain expended Pact Magic spell slots but no more than a number equal to half your maximum (round up). Once you use this feature, you can’t do so again until you finish a Long Rest.
Eldritch Invocation Options
Armor of Shadows
You can cast Mage Armor on yourself without expending a spell slot.
Not only do Warlocks regain their spell slots back on a Short Rest as well as a Long Rest, they can also gain back a few slots in a pinch by doing a small ritual. Also, many of their Eldritch Invocation spells, do not expend spell slots and are effectively at-will spells.
On top of all of that, each of these classes has access to Cantrip spells that scale over time to remain effective at-will magic attacks and utility options.
That all being said, if you are looking for a money sink and a way to make your players scrounge for ingredients, there are a couple adventures I have seen that have made specialty consumables that grant a spell slot back. I would make them about as available as a Rare potion (meaning the party should never have more than one at any given time) and rejuvenate a 3rd level slot or lower.
The limit on spell slots is what balances casters and non-casters (in theory, really, casters come out on top most of the time). Casters can do big flashy things a few times, martials can do less flashy things more often. A big part of the game is resource management: yes, you could use a fireball to target the one remaining enemy, but is that the right way to spend that spell slot? And another facet of that is managing the resource of spells prepared/memorized. You won’t have the right spell ready every time. That’s the idea. It puts much needed limits on caster power, and gives the other classes a chance to shine — now that fighter with high athletics gets to make her check to climb the wall instead of the wizard just casting levitate or spider climb.
Also, the casters should never run out of spells, that’s what cantrips are for.
It sounds like they think they should be able to fireball every round. Spellcasters are *supposed* to carefully consider when to use what resources and not be able to easily recover them whenever they want, because that builds tension and makes gameplay exciting.
Sure, you could use one of your 3 daily fireballs on a hoard of goblins, but do you think you'll need them for the boss??
That's the trade off.
Without that element, not only are spellcasters OP and devoid of tension, but they also would leave martial characters so far in the dust that they might as well play a solo campaign.
I would just ask them to try playing rules as written, because the changes they're proposing would break game balance.
As others have said it sounds like the player wants to basically remove the very thing that balances the power level of a spellcaster and remove the entire pressure of resource management that's at the heart of the spell slot system. If a fighter came to you and said "I'm not happy only attacking twice per turn, can we make it four times with two uses of action surge instead of one?" you'd out right say no, they're asking to basically be a higher level then they actually are with features that are supposed to come online later in the game and this player is no different with their request
I agree with everything that has been said here. Spellcasters are good enough as they are so they should not get any more automatic benefits.
One addition though, I'm personally not against potions that restore spell slots. In fact we have something like this in my current campaign. I balanced them around healing potions as a level one potion of spell restoration can be used with cure wounds to heal roughly the equivalent of a basic healing potion. The benefit of the spell restoration potion is that is offers way more flexibility, the downside is, that it is only useful for spellcasters.
Basic (50 Gold) restores 1 level one spell slot
Greater (150 Gold) restores a combined level of 2 spell slots (so one level 2 or two level 1 slots)
Superior (450 Gold) restores a combined level of 4 spell slots
Supreme (1350 Gold) restores a combined level of 6 spell slots
You could also replace the fixed values with dice rolls if you prefer that (I would recommend 1D3 for greater, 2D3 for superior and 2D4+1 for supreme). The prices are inspired by the sane magical item prices, but that is of course entirely up to the DM.
So I ran into an issue where a player isn't happy with how any of the spell casting classes work. I'm usually open to player suggestions because I want everyone to have a good time at my table, but this player has two issues.
The first one is how spell slots work, or rather the lack of an ability to restore a spent spell slots without a long rest. Basically they want a potion that restores one spell slots as opposed to taking a long rest because "in the heat of battle, I can't run out of spell slots." So they proposed a potion that restores one spell slots. And when I said that's a little overpowered, they suggested making the potions rare and expensive to help balance it out and I'm still not sure I like this idea of a spell slots potion.
The second thing they don't like is how many spells they get. They feel a spell casting class needs more spells and spell slots. They proposed adding more spells and slots at first level, and keeping that number higher as they level up. Again, I don't know about this.
So what do you think? I'm not trying to say no to this player, but I'm also not trying to bend the rules here and making spell casters overpowered. The magical classes need to be balanced versus all other classes/characters in my game. Is there a way you can think of that I can make this player happy without adding spell slots potions or more spells and spell slots? Or would simply accepting their suggestions be best? I'm honestly not sure because it's not their first time playing D&D. They're not new to the game, they just don't like the limits imposed on spell casters.
I want the player to feel their voice has been heard, but it's hard when they want the rules to broken.
Say no to them! This player just wants to be OP, if you give in they will just keep asking for more and more. Tell them kindly but firmly that no, they have to stick to the rules of the game and if they don't like the rules for spellcasters - which includes running out of spellslots in combat - then they shouldn't play a spellcaster.
A player who wants to cast spells every round, without limits, has existing options; they're called cantrips.
It would certainly be possible to design and balance a class that could cast stronger spells at will, many (non-D&D) games do it, but those spells are far weaker (relative to other characters of similar experience) than D&D spells.
I agree with everyone else, I just want to put the Pearl of Power on the table. Presumably you're going to give your players magic items at some point; that one would probably make the player in question happy (or at least happier).
I think ther's an optional rule called spell points in the DMG(don't quote me) an I'm not sure of the specifics, but I recommend checking that out
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Warlocks are the one I would agree with the player on. They are too dependent on short rests and the games I run/play in rarley have short rests. I don't do dungeon crawls.
Balancing resources is exactly the point of tactically playing a spellcaster. Yes, at first level Wizard you only have two spell slots. But you have those cantrips, and whatever else your character brings. It's okay, that's exactly the point.
If you want to give them an option, you can use the crafting rules in Xanathar's to let them craft scrolls for gold and downtime. They have to choose the spell in advance and it's one use only but it might be a way to give them something to play with.
But yeah, those are the rules, and players everywhere seem to manage.
Balancing resources is exactly the point of tactically playing a spellcaster. Yes, at first level Wizard you only have two spell slots. But you have those cantrips, and whatever else your character brings. It's okay, that's exactly the point.
If you want to give them an option, you can use the crafting rules in Xanathar's to let them craft scrolls for gold and downtime. They have to choose the spell in advance and it's one use only but it might be a way to give them something to play with.
But yeah, those are the rules, and players everywhere seem to manage.
It continues to floor me that some players will look at a class with resources to manage and think: "That's a design flaw, someone should fix that." Spellcasters don't need fixing; they are very much working as intended. If your player doesn't find resource management engaging, they should play a class with few resources to manage; I recommend a Champion Fighter, or maybe some kind of Rogue.
Warlocks are the one I would agree with the player on. They are too dependent on short rests and the games I run/play in rarley have short rests. I don't do dungeon crawls.
The 2024 rules threw them a bone by giving them a once per day "get a slot back" feature. But if your game rarely ever has short rests, that's not a Warlock problem, that's a wider problem. Monks (Ki/Focus points), Paladins (Channel Divinity) and Battle Masters (maneuvers) would struggle under the same conditions. All things considered Warlock had a leg up over other casters in the 2014 rules when spell slots are low since Eldritch Blast with invocations beats other casters' cantrips.
I agree with most everyone who has responded. I'm going to say no.
One reply did mention their spell slot potion idea, and I like it. I'm just not sure I want to implement it in this particular campaign. Maybe in the future. I think it's an ok idea, but I am not sure it feels balanced. I just need to think on it a bit.
I agree with most everyone who has responded. I'm going to say no.
One reply did mention their spell slot potion idea, and I like it. I'm just not sure I want to implement it in this particular campaign. Maybe in the future. I think it's an ok idea, but I am not sure it feels balanced. I just need to think on it a bit.
A spell-slot potion is basically just a one-time consumable Pearl of Power. You can control how available it is to the party and it can only be temporary since it is consumable. It's a nice middle ground between nothing and giving the spellcaster a magic item to give them more spell slots overall.
I agree with most everyone who has responded. I'm going to say no.
One reply did mention their spell slot potion idea, and I like it. I'm just not sure I want to implement it in this particular campaign. Maybe in the future. I think it's an ok idea, but I am not sure it feels balanced. I just need to think on it a bit.
A spell-slot potion is basically just a one-time consumable Pearl of Power. You can control how available it is to the party and it can only be temporary since it is consumable. It's a nice middle ground between nothing and giving the spellcaster a magic item to give them more spell slots overall.
In theory yes, but in practice this player is going to whine about not getting enough of them or demand to be allow to craft as many of them as they like. Best to just say "no". If any player during character creation says their character isn't powerful enough so DM gimme, gimme. It's a huge red flag. Telling them just a flat "no" is crucial in order to see if they will respect your authority as the DM or if they do not and you should be not asking them back at all.
I agree with most everyone who has responded. I'm going to say no.
One reply did mention their spell slot potion idea, and I like it. I'm just not sure I want to implement it in this particular campaign. Maybe in the future. I think it's an ok idea, but I am not sure it feels balanced. I just need to think on it a bit.
A spell-slot potion is basically just a one-time consumable Pearl of Power. You can control how available it is to the party and it can only be temporary since it is consumable. It's a nice middle ground between nothing and giving the spellcaster a magic item to give them more spell slots overall.
In theory yes, but in practice this player is going to whine about not getting enough of them or demand to be allow to craft as many of them as they like. Best to just say "no". If any player during character creation says their character isn't powerful enough so DM gimme, gimme. It's a huge red flag. Telling them just a flat "no" is crucial in order to see if they will respect your authority as the DM or if they do not and you should be not asking them back at all.
Definitely agree. This player doesn't need more power. If anything 5e characters as a whole need a lot less power then they have.
I agree with most everyone who has responded. I'm going to say no.
One reply did mention their spell slot potion idea, and I like it. I'm just not sure I want to implement it in this particular campaign. Maybe in the future. I think it's an ok idea, but I am not sure it feels balanced. I just need to think on it a bit.
D&D 5e Character classes as written, even if a player makes sub-optimal choices on purposes are somewhere between "Completely and utterly broken" to "god mode" on the power scale.
Frankly, I don't think it's possible for you to break anything any more than it already is. Like.. spell slots are completely irrelevant, just let him have unlimited spell casting.. it will make no difference to the power level of the character or the game at all. Spell slots in 5e are like tracking arrows or food, its completely pointless. Its already so FUBAR, you can't make it worse.
So I ran into an issue where a player isn't happy with how any of the spell casting classes work. I'm usually open to player suggestions because I want everyone to have a good time at my table, but this player has two issues.
The first one is how spell slots work, or rather the lack of an ability to restore a spent spell slots without a long rest. Basically they want a potion that restores one spell slots as opposed to taking a long rest because "in the heat of battle, I can't run out of spell slots." So they proposed a potion that restores one spell slots. And when I said that's a little overpowered, they suggested making the potions rare and expensive to help balance it out and I'm still not sure I like this idea of a spell slots potion.
The second thing they don't like is how many spells they get. They feel a spell casting class needs more spells and spell slots. They proposed adding more spells and slots at first level, and keeping that number higher as they level up. Again, I don't know about this.
So what do you think? I'm not trying to say no to this player, but I'm also not trying to bend the rules here and making spell casters overpowered. The magical classes need to be balanced versus all other classes/characters in my game. Is there a way you can think of that I can make this player happy without adding spell slots potions or more spells and spell slots? Or would simply accepting their suggestions be best? I'm honestly not sure because it's not their first time playing D&D. They're not new to the game, they just don't like the limits imposed on spell casters.
I want the player to feel their voice has been heard, but it's hard when they want the rules to broken.
For most of this, I feel it is more the player not understanding how any of the spellcasting classes work and also not understanding that they have access to all kinds of magic even without spell slots.
For Wizards:
So they have the ability to regain some spell slots on a short rest and also cast ritual spells without spell slots.
For Sorcerers:
They have the ability to convert their spell points into more spell slots as needed as Bonus Actions.
For Warlocks:
Not only do Warlocks regain their spell slots back on a Short Rest as well as a Long Rest, they can also gain back a few slots in a pinch by doing a small ritual. Also, many of their Eldritch Invocation spells, do not expend spell slots and are effectively at-will spells.
On top of all of that, each of these classes has access to Cantrip spells that scale over time to remain effective at-will magic attacks and utility options.
That all being said, if you are looking for a money sink and a way to make your players scrounge for ingredients, there are a couple adventures I have seen that have made specialty consumables that grant a spell slot back. I would make them about as available as a Rare potion (meaning the party should never have more than one at any given time) and rejuvenate a 3rd level slot or lower.
The limit on spell slots is what balances casters and non-casters (in theory, really, casters come out on top most of the time). Casters can do big flashy things a few times, martials can do less flashy things more often.
A big part of the game is resource management: yes, you could use a fireball to target the one remaining enemy, but is that the right way to spend that spell slot? And another facet of that is managing the resource of spells prepared/memorized. You won’t have the right spell ready every time. That’s the idea. It puts much needed limits on caster power, and gives the other classes a chance to shine — now that fighter with high athletics gets to make her check to climb the wall instead of the wizard just casting levitate or spider climb.
Also, the casters should never run out of spells, that’s what cantrips are for.
It sounds like they think they should be able to fireball every round. Spellcasters are *supposed* to carefully consider when to use what resources and not be able to easily recover them whenever they want, because that builds tension and makes gameplay exciting.
Sure, you could use one of your 3 daily fireballs on a hoard of goblins, but do you think you'll need them for the boss??
That's the trade off.
Without that element, not only are spellcasters OP and devoid of tension, but they also would leave martial characters so far in the dust that they might as well play a solo campaign.
I would just ask them to try playing rules as written, because the changes they're proposing would break game balance.
As others have said it sounds like the player wants to basically remove the very thing that balances the power level of a spellcaster and remove the entire pressure of resource management that's at the heart of the spell slot system. If a fighter came to you and said "I'm not happy only attacking twice per turn, can we make it four times with two uses of action surge instead of one?" you'd out right say no, they're asking to basically be a higher level then they actually are with features that are supposed to come online later in the game and this player is no different with their request
I agree with everything that has been said here. Spellcasters are good enough as they are so they should not get any more automatic benefits.
One addition though, I'm personally not against potions that restore spell slots.
In fact we have something like this in my current campaign. I balanced them around healing potions as a level one potion of spell restoration can be used with cure wounds to heal roughly the equivalent of a basic healing potion. The benefit of the spell restoration potion is that is offers way more flexibility, the downside is, that it is only useful for spellcasters.
Basic (50 Gold) restores 1 level one spell slot
Greater (150 Gold) restores a combined level of 2 spell slots (so one level 2 or two level 1 slots)
Superior (450 Gold) restores a combined level of 4 spell slots
Supreme (1350 Gold) restores a combined level of 6 spell slots
You could also replace the fixed values with dice rolls if you prefer that (I would recommend 1D3 for greater, 2D3 for superior and 2D4+1 for supreme). The prices are inspired by the sane magical item prices, but that is of course entirely up to the DM.
Say no to them! This player just wants to be OP, if you give in they will just keep asking for more and more. Tell them kindly but firmly that no, they have to stick to the rules of the game and if they don't like the rules for spellcasters - which includes running out of spellslots in combat - then they shouldn't play a spellcaster.
A player who wants to cast spells every round, without limits, has existing options; they're called cantrips.
It would certainly be possible to design and balance a class that could cast stronger spells at will, many (non-D&D) games do it, but those spells are far weaker (relative to other characters of similar experience) than D&D spells.
Tell the player that is what Cantrips are for. I wouldn't give in to the player and I don't think their voice needs to be heard.
I agree with everyone else, I just want to put the Pearl of Power on the table. Presumably you're going to give your players magic items at some point; that one would probably make the player in question happy (or at least happier).
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I think ther's an optional rule called spell points in the DMG(don't quote me) an I'm not sure of the specifics, but I recommend checking that out
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Warlocks are the one I would agree with the player on. They are too dependent on short rests and the games I run/play in rarley have short rests. I don't do dungeon crawls.
Balancing resources is exactly the point of tactically playing a spellcaster. Yes, at first level Wizard you only have two spell slots. But you have those cantrips, and whatever else your character brings. It's okay, that's exactly the point.
If you want to give them an option, you can use the crafting rules in Xanathar's to let them craft scrolls for gold and downtime. They have to choose the spell in advance and it's one use only but it might be a way to give them something to play with.
But yeah, those are the rules, and players everywhere seem to manage.
It continues to floor me that some players will look at a class with resources to manage and think: "That's a design flaw, someone should fix that." Spellcasters don't need fixing; they are very much working as intended. If your player doesn't find resource management engaging, they should play a class with few resources to manage; I recommend a Champion Fighter, or maybe some kind of Rogue.
The 2024 rules threw them a bone by giving them a once per day "get a slot back" feature. But if your game rarely ever has short rests, that's not a Warlock problem, that's a wider problem. Monks (Ki/Focus points), Paladins (Channel Divinity) and Battle Masters (maneuvers) would struggle under the same conditions. All things considered Warlock had a leg up over other casters in the 2014 rules when spell slots are low since Eldritch Blast with invocations beats other casters' cantrips.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I agree with most everyone who has responded. I'm going to say no.
One reply did mention their spell slot potion idea, and I like it. I'm just not sure I want to implement it in this particular campaign. Maybe in the future. I think it's an ok idea, but I am not sure it feels balanced. I just need to think on it a bit.
A spell-slot potion is basically just a one-time consumable Pearl of Power. You can control how available it is to the party and it can only be temporary since it is consumable. It's a nice middle ground between nothing and giving the spellcaster a magic item to give them more spell slots overall.
In theory yes, but in practice this player is going to whine about not getting enough of them or demand to be allow to craft as many of them as they like. Best to just say "no". If any player during character creation says their character isn't powerful enough so DM gimme, gimme. It's a huge red flag. Telling them just a flat "no" is crucial in order to see if they will respect your authority as the DM or if they do not and you should be not asking them back at all.
Definitely agree. This player doesn't need more power. If anything 5e characters as a whole need a lot less power then they have.
D&D 5e Character classes as written, even if a player makes sub-optimal choices on purposes are somewhere between "Completely and utterly broken" to "god mode" on the power scale.
Frankly, I don't think it's possible for you to break anything any more than it already is. Like.. spell slots are completely irrelevant, just let him have unlimited spell casting.. it will make no difference to the power level of the character or the game at all. Spell slots in 5e are like tracking arrows or food, its completely pointless. Its already so FUBAR, you can't make it worse.