Ready is a combat action, it doesn't really exist outside of combat.
I disagree, actions are not limited to combat. You can cast Action spells outside of combat, you can take the Attack action outside of combat, you can Dash outside of combat, etc.. etc... you can also Ready actions outside of combat. For instance, if everyone gets together to lift a piano all together they are readying their actions to lift. If someone is holding their bow taught to shoot anyone that comes through a door, they are readying their action to attack. If someone is holding a sword to an NPCs throat they are readying their action to Attack them.
"Actions" ARE limited to combat. Telling the DM what you want to do and having the DM resolve it happens all the time, in or out of combat, making use of character abilities and features or not.
In combat, features and abilities usually require actions, bonus actions, reactions - out of combat, the character uses their ability but since there is no need for actions, bonus actions or reactions outside of combat, the DM just resolves the effect of the player activity.
The problem with initiative is that it is done for simplicity and not to necessarily make sense.
The problematic scenario is:
- A character decides to do something that will initiate a conflict ... whether this is combat or perhaps some sort of social conflict OR any other situation that should be resolved in order.
RAW, everyone rolls initiative (in the 2024 rules, advantage or disadvantage may be applied to these rolls depending on whether the creatures were aware/surprised).
The problem is that the character who indicated that they would do something out of combat, which was the trigger for rolling initiative, may decide to not take that Action when their turn arrives in the initiative order, likely because it no longer makes any sense at all. The question then becomes, why did the conflict start if the triggering event that caused it never happened?
- narratively, some folks just say that the character gave some indication of the activity they were planning and this resulted in all the other creatures reacting to the intent rather than the actual event. This is fine in some cases but falls flat when the triggering activity is something that can not be seen or sensed or otherwise known. A decent example is a sorcerer casting a subtle spell. The entire point of this is to cast a spell without being noticed so that no one knows who cast the spell or even if a spell was cast. How can a subtly cast fireball start a combat when no creature there can know it is about to happen? (Some DMs go for 6th sense of creatures let them know something was happening but personally, I don't like what feels like gamey or unrealistic solutions that every creature in the game might be psychic and know when something bad is about to happen).
So ... this is where many DMs introduce house rules of one sort or another.
In my case, if a character plans to trigger a conflict and others might be unaware that it will happen, then I'll have everyone roll initiative but when it is a character's turn to act they can only decide what to do based on what the character is aware of - this requires a bit of buy in from the players - but if nothing is happening then the character will usually just continue to do whatever they were doing. When the initiative of the character triggering the event comes around, they take their stated trigger action and initiative after that point proceeds as normal. However, this is 100% house rule territory. This is not RAW but allows me as DM to adjudicate situations where I think the creatures involved would be unaware of what was about to happen whether that is a subtle spell or an ambush.
Another possible house rule is for the DM to have everyone roll initiative as normal then place the character initiating the conflict as first in the initiative order since nothing happens until after that character has taken their stated action. This latter choice is less of a penalty to characters with high initiative modifiers since the rest of the initiative order remains unaffected.
In cases where the triggering event might have visible indications before the character takes the action - like pulling out a weapon before an attack - then I'd likely just follow the initiative rules as written since some creatures could see the indications that something was about to happen and react faster.
In the enemies opening the door scenario, I'd roll initiative and resolve things in initiative order ... I would likely start initiative some time before the conflict was to start so that anyone who wanted to ready an action during the conflict could do so - no one knows within 6 seconds when that door will open so a character saying "I get my bow ready to shoot the first creature through the door" .. is basically stating the combat action they intend to take when the combat is being resolved in initiative order - but if the party knows that there are enemies beyond the door then the combat does NOT start when the door opens - it starts some time before that - it is up to the DM to realize that combat or a conflict is about to occur and have folks roll initiative so that it can be resolved appropriately.
Finally, initiative isn't just for combat - it is for any situation which might require resolving in order with multiple creatures/characters wanting to do things at the same time. It is a good idea to train your players out of expecting to attack something as soon as the DM asks for initiative. :)
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Anyway, to the OP, the "Ready Action" only happens in combat .. but sometimes character's will want to do things to prepare for future situations that might arise .. if you know a conflict could start then have everyone roll initiative before that happens and ask each person in order what they are doing whether it is combat or not ... this way, when a character decides to liven up a negotiation in a way that can't be perceived ... it can happen in a more natural and reasonable way. Other than that, it is up to you whether you use RAW or any number of possible house rules to resolve the situation in a way that makes sense to you and your players.
You take the Ready action to wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you take this action on your turn, which lets you act by taking a Reactionbefore the start of your next turn.
First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your Reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your Speed in response to it. Examples include “If the cultist steps on the trapdoor, I’ll pull the lever that opens it,” and “If the zombie steps next to me, I move away.”
When the trigger occurs, you can either take your Reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger.
When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of an action, and holding on to the spell’s magic requires Concentration, which you can maintain up to the start of your next turn. If your Concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect.
Emphasis mine. This is clearly intended to be used when you're in initiative order and taking turns.
Another way of thinking about it: Initiative, Turns and Rounds, Actions, Readying, and so on are for any situation when timing matters.
If a player wants to ready actions then that sounds like a situation where timing matters. So, roll initiative.
If timing doesn't matter then just adjudicate the actions.
Exactly, initiative does not need to be during combat, it is whenever timing matters:
You can have initiative during exploration e.g. if there is a bomb in the palace that the party must find and deactivate before it goes off. You can have initiative during social interactions, e.g. the party is interrogating an NPC that is attempting to escape. You can have initiative during non-combat action encounter, e.g. the party is trying to escape a temple collapsing on them.
In previous editions all encounters were run in initiative including exploration and social, but the clumsiness and boringness of this is why in 5e it is left up to the discretion of the DM when initiative is needed or not.
The only "problem" is that in many of the situations of "readying" an action outside of combat can get very boring running it in full initiative. If one player is readying an action in case a captive tries to escape during an interrogation you now have the boring task of one or two players asking a question then having to way until the bad guy's turn for them to answer and then wait for the player's turn again etc.. etc... Likewise if a player is readying an action in case an enemy walks through a door and that enemy doesn't for 2-3 round that is a big waste of time to run through every turn of that initiative. This is also the case for e.g. if a sorcerer uses subtle spell to begin combat, yes you should immediately roll initiative but that initiative doesn't mean anyone else knows what the sorcerer is doing so the creatures that "beat" the sorcerer in initiative should RP without that metaknowledge and use their turn to do nothing (maybe make an insight or deception/persuasion check) since they have no knowledge that combat has actually begun yet, which leads to borning/redundant turn taking. Hence it is more time-efficient to just let characters ready actions outside of combat and allow that readied action to happen at the start of combat then roll initiative.
Hm. I think I can come up with a way to mostly make the surprise rules make sense, though this is still to some degree a house rule:
Ready for Trouble
Rolling for initiative under the current 5e rules has a weird effect where the action that instigated the combat might not actually be the first action in combat, indicating that the other side somehow knew ahead of time what was going to happen. Now, in some cases this might actually be true (via insight or perception), but if so it would be expected that a successful stealth or deception check would be an automatic success, and it's not -- it's just advantage.
One way around this is to just ask people in general terms "If an enemy appears, what will you do?", or similar, and then if a fight breaks out... everyone whose initiative is earlier than the triggering incident, but does not have some way of knowing ahead of time that it's going to happen, automatically takes the ready action.
Ready is a combat action, it doesn't really exist outside of combat.
This seems to be your go-to defense. Are Bonus Actions only in combat? Attack Action only in combat? Whatever is the 2024 cast a spell action only in combat?
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
A way for DM to mostly ensure the combat instigators will act before others is to use DMG guidelines for Initiative Score and apply Advantage to instigators and Disadvantage to those instigated, giving the following initiative result:
The way I have always handled this in the past is to have everyone roll initiative as soon as the first attack is made, then I start the combat on the turn for the player that made the attack (effectively making that attack the start of his/her turn). It's kind of like starting in the middle of the round, but it has worked well at our table.
I'm not fond of a method where those rolling higher than the instigator will play after it and anyone lower when they should instead play before. For example
But that is the correct way to do it RAW. Those who have initiative above the Instigator have no knowledge that the combat has started. Unless of course you simply do what I've been saying all along and just allow the Ready action outside of initiative, just like how the Disengage, Dodge, Attack, and Magic actions can be used outside of initiative.
Though honestly, starting in the middle of the round also makes sense to me. If you're a character with a high initiative bonus your supposed to be on a hare-trigger to fight all the time so should be the instigator most of the time. It encourages RP in line with the mechanics of the character which IMO is a good thing for verisimilitude. A happy go-lucky laidback character shouldn't be leaping into combat before everyone else just because they happen to be a Swashbuckler with a very high initiative bonus.
This argument comes up every so often - yes by RAW this as stated above is what should happen. In a real game if players hear noises and all say we are going to shoot through the door the minute it opens - I will let them shoot through the door and then initiative starts (granted that is the simplest form of ambush)
Taking the fun out of being the ambusher - or the dismay out of being the ambushed when the group is on the opposite side of it adds nothing to the game imo and I won't run my games that way.
But that is the correct way to do it RAW. Those who have initiative above the Instigator have no knowledge that the combat has started.
Where is this rules written? RAW creatures actions initiating combat get Advantage on their Initiative roll, not automatically placed at the top.
Rolling Initiative: In any situation where a character’s actions initiate combat, you can give the acting character Advantage on their Initiative roll. For example, if a conversation with an NPC is cut short because the Sorcerer is convinced that NPC is a doppelganger and targets it with a Chromatic Orb spell, everyone rolls Initiative, and the Sorcerer does so with Advantage. If the doppelganger rolls well, it might still act before the Sorcerer’s spell goes off, reflecting the monster’s ability to anticipate the spell.
Nope, correct way to do it RAW is that the people who roll above the instigator somehow divine what's about to happen and turn him into sausage before he can actually take his action.
But that is the correct way to do it RAW. Those who have initiative above the Instigator have no knowledge that the combat has started.
Where is this rules written? RAW creatures actions initiating combat get Advantage on their Initiative roll, not automatically placed at the top.
Rolling Initiative: In any situation where a character’s actions initiate combat, you can give the acting character Advantage on their Initiative roll. For example, if a conversation with an NPC is cut short because the Sorcerer is convinced that NPC is a doppelganger and targets it with a Chromatic Orb spell, everyone rolls Initiative, and the Sorcerer does so with Advantage. If the doppelganger rolls well, it might still act before the Sorcerer’s spell goes off, reflecting the monster’s ability to anticipate the spell.
The monster can "act" but it shouldn't metagame and know what the sorcerer is going to do before the sorcerer does it. It should act given the information available to it, just like players should act given the information available to them. Why are we suddenly forgetting about the ROLEPLAY part of our role playing game?
It should not matter whether one DM decides to start initiative as soon and the players know a monster exists, or if another DM decides to start initiative when the players can see the monster, or if another DM decides to start initiative when a player decides to attack the monster. The encounter should play out the same.
This argument comes up every so often - yes by RAW this as stated above is what should happen. In a real game if players hear noises and all say we are going to shoot through the door the minute it opens - I will let them shoot through the door and then initiative starts (granted that is the simplest form of ambush)
Taking the fun out of being the ambusher - or the dismay out of being the ambushed when the group is on the opposite side of it adds nothing to the game imo and I won't run my games that way.
This is what I did. In large part for the same reason you gave. I can see the argument for running it using RAW for combat encounters: having the ambushers with the readied action to roll initiative, even with advantage because there's always a chance that the creatures being ambushed miraculously get off the first attack. But that seems implausible, and doesn't reward the players for their tactics. A good GM might allow the targets of the ambush to roll a perception check with an appropriate DC to detect the ambushers (appropriateness depends how well the ambushers are hidden, e.g., depending on the amount of cover, how quiet they are, etc.), so the ambush isn't automatic. I don't think there's a single way to run this sort of situation, but there are definitely better and worse ways.
The monster can "act" but it shouldn't metagame and know what the sorcerer is going to do before the sorcerer does it. It should act given the information available to it, just like players should act given the information available to them. Why are we suddenly forgetting about the ROLEPLAY part of our role playing game?
The point is, winning initiative should not be a penalty. Either change the rules so the first actor automatically wins initiative (or automatically wins initiative if unnoticed), which is what most computer versions of the rules have done, or use the rules as written.
Another option I considered is something like
Surprise
A creature that is surprised cannot have an initiative higher than its passive perception. A creature that is attempting to surprise its enemy may use stealth in place of initiative. If the creature attempting the surprise attack still fails to win initiative, that indicates that the enemy noticed what they were trying to do.
[...] In any situation where a character’s actions initiate combat, you can give the acting character Advantage on their Initiative roll. For example, if a conversation with an NPC is cut short because the Sorcerer is convinced that NPC is a doppelganger and targets it with a Chromatic Orb spell, everyone rolls Initiative, and the Sorcerer does so with Advantage. If the doppelganger rolls well, it might still act before the Sorcerer’s spell goes off, reflecting the monster’s ability to anticipate the spell.
What is weird is whether or not the player has even cast the spell yet. And if they do, do they lose the spell slots if it no longer makes sense to use the spell?
So, say you go to cast chromatic orb and roll a 1. Doppelganger casts antimagic field and another monster makes your speed 0.
In pure logic you should be casting the chromatic orb at the doppelganger, but the orb no longer affects the doppelganger could you change targets?
Technically you couldn't even have cast counterspell on the antimagic field because they would have broken the concentration on chromatic orb.
I feel like they need to add a surprise round back in to handle this
I read it differently, just an intention at that moment.
Your intention is to cast the spell, but the same applies if, for example, you're pointing at an enemy with your sword or bow in an interrogatory. If, after rolling initiative with Advantage, the enemy goes before you, then on your turn, you're not obliged to cast the spell, attack with the sword, or shoot with the bow, because you realize on your turn that you didn't sleep well that day, and you're feeling slow :D
But I understand this is debatable.
The problem is that if you don't cast the spell, there was no indication that you were going to cast the spell. (with other attacks you can be like, well your hand was on the sword or whatever.) I mean I suppose you could be like, you start to cast the spell, but not enough that it wastes the spell slot if you stop. I get they made it exceptionally easy to handle combat, but I really don't like the way 5e did it. I think you really need a surprise round, or only the triggering character acts then imitative is called.
Ready is a combat action, it doesn't really exist outside of combat.
I disagree, actions are not limited to combat. You can cast Action spells outside of combat, you can take the Attack action outside of combat, you can Dash outside of combat, etc.. etc... you can also Ready actions outside of combat. For instance, if everyone gets together to lift a piano all together they are readying their actions to lift. If someone is holding their bow taught to shoot anyone that comes through a door, they are readying their action to attack. If someone is holding a sword to an NPCs throat they are readying their action to Attack them.
Actually according to the DMG you can not attack outside of combat. It basically comes right out and say you can't attack unless you are in combat.
Ready is a combat action, it doesn't really exist outside of combat.
I disagree, actions are not limited to combat. You can cast Action spells outside of combat, you can take the Attack action outside of combat, you can Dash outside of combat, etc.. etc... you can also Ready actions outside of combat. For instance, if everyone gets together to lift a piano all together they are readying their actions to lift. If someone is holding their bow taught to shoot anyone that comes through a door, they are readying their action to attack. If someone is holding a sword to an NPCs throat they are readying their action to Attack them.
So ... this is where many DMs introduce house rules of one sort or another.
In my case, if a character plans to trigger a conflict and others might be unaware that it will happen, then I'll have everyone roll initiative but when it is a character's turn to act they can only decide what to do based on what the character is aware of - this requires a bit of buy in from the players - but if nothing is happening then the character will usually just continue to do whatever they were doing. When the initiative of the character triggering the event comes around, they take their stated trigger action and initiative after that point proceeds as normal. However, this is 100% house rule territory. This is not RAW but allows me as DM to adjudicate situations where I think the creatures involved would be unaware of what was about to happen whether that is a subtle spell or an ambush.
Another possible house rule is for the DM to have everyone roll initiative as normal then place the character initiating the conflict as first in the initiative order since nothing happens until after that character has taken their stated action. This latter choice is less of a penalty to characters with high initiative modifiers since the rest of the initiative order remains unaffected.
In cases where the triggering event might have visible indications before the character takes the action - like pulling out a weapon before an attack - then I'd likely just follow the initiative rules as written since some creatures could see the indications that something was about to happen and react faster.
In the enemies opening the door scenario, I'd roll initiative and resolve things in initiative order ... I would likely start initiative some time before the conflict was to start so that anyone who wanted to ready an action during the conflict could do so - no one knows within 6 seconds when that door will open so a character saying "I get my bow ready to shoot the first creature through the door" .. is basically stating the combat action they intend to take when the combat is being resolved in initiative order - but if the party knows that there are enemies beyond the door then the combat does NOT start when the door opens - it starts some time before that - it is up to the DM to realize that combat or a conflict is about to occur and have folks roll initiative so that it can be resolved appropriately.
An interesting solution, the only issue I have with it is that it penalizes characters like the barbarian who has a class feature that specifically interacts with initiative and characters who took Alert, who now actually miss the first round of combat, and any character who has disadvantage suddenly gets to act in the first round of combat. I think my fix would be to say the whoever initiated combat acts first in round one, then it follows initiative order. During turn two that player rolls initiative and acts in turn order.
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"Actions" ARE limited to combat. Telling the DM what you want to do and having the DM resolve it happens all the time, in or out of combat, making use of character abilities and features or not.
In combat, features and abilities usually require actions, bonus actions, reactions - out of combat, the character uses their ability but since there is no need for actions, bonus actions or reactions outside of combat, the DM just resolves the effect of the player activity.
The problem with initiative is that it is done for simplicity and not to necessarily make sense.
The problematic scenario is:
- A character decides to do something that will initiate a conflict ... whether this is combat or perhaps some sort of social conflict OR any other situation that should be resolved in order.
RAW, everyone rolls initiative (in the 2024 rules, advantage or disadvantage may be applied to these rolls depending on whether the creatures were aware/surprised).
The problem is that the character who indicated that they would do something out of combat, which was the trigger for rolling initiative, may decide to not take that Action when their turn arrives in the initiative order, likely because it no longer makes any sense at all. The question then becomes, why did the conflict start if the triggering event that caused it never happened?
- narratively, some folks just say that the character gave some indication of the activity they were planning and this resulted in all the other creatures reacting to the intent rather than the actual event. This is fine in some cases but falls flat when the triggering activity is something that can not be seen or sensed or otherwise known. A decent example is a sorcerer casting a subtle spell. The entire point of this is to cast a spell without being noticed so that no one knows who cast the spell or even if a spell was cast. How can a subtly cast fireball start a combat when no creature there can know it is about to happen? (Some DMs go for 6th sense of creatures let them know something was happening but personally, I don't like what feels like gamey or unrealistic solutions that every creature in the game might be psychic and know when something bad is about to happen).
So ... this is where many DMs introduce house rules of one sort or another.
In my case, if a character plans to trigger a conflict and others might be unaware that it will happen, then I'll have everyone roll initiative but when it is a character's turn to act they can only decide what to do based on what the character is aware of - this requires a bit of buy in from the players - but if nothing is happening then the character will usually just continue to do whatever they were doing. When the initiative of the character triggering the event comes around, they take their stated trigger action and initiative after that point proceeds as normal. However, this is 100% house rule territory. This is not RAW but allows me as DM to adjudicate situations where I think the creatures involved would be unaware of what was about to happen whether that is a subtle spell or an ambush.
Another possible house rule is for the DM to have everyone roll initiative as normal then place the character initiating the conflict as first in the initiative order since nothing happens until after that character has taken their stated action. This latter choice is less of a penalty to characters with high initiative modifiers since the rest of the initiative order remains unaffected.
In cases where the triggering event might have visible indications before the character takes the action - like pulling out a weapon before an attack - then I'd likely just follow the initiative rules as written since some creatures could see the indications that something was about to happen and react faster.
In the enemies opening the door scenario, I'd roll initiative and resolve things in initiative order ... I would likely start initiative some time before the conflict was to start so that anyone who wanted to ready an action during the conflict could do so - no one knows within 6 seconds when that door will open so a character saying "I get my bow ready to shoot the first creature through the door" .. is basically stating the combat action they intend to take when the combat is being resolved in initiative order - but if the party knows that there are enemies beyond the door then the combat does NOT start when the door opens - it starts some time before that - it is up to the DM to realize that combat or a conflict is about to occur and have folks roll initiative so that it can be resolved appropriately.
Finally, initiative isn't just for combat - it is for any situation which might require resolving in order with multiple creatures/characters wanting to do things at the same time. It is a good idea to train your players out of expecting to attack something as soon as the DM asks for initiative. :)
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Anyway, to the OP, the "Ready Action" only happens in combat .. but sometimes character's will want to do things to prepare for future situations that might arise .. if you know a conflict could start then have everyone roll initiative before that happens and ask each person in order what they are doing whether it is combat or not ... this way, when a character decides to liven up a negotiation in a way that can't be perceived ... it can happen in a more natural and reasonable way. Other than that, it is up to you whether you use RAW or any number of possible house rules to resolve the situation in a way that makes sense to you and your players.
Another way of thinking about it: Initiative, Turns and Rounds, Actions, Readying, and so on are for any situation when timing matters.
If a player wants to ready actions then that sounds like a situation where timing matters. So, roll initiative.
If timing doesn't matter then just adjudicate the actions.
The text of the ready action is
Emphasis mine. This is clearly intended to be used when you're in initiative order and taking turns.
Exactly, initiative does not need to be during combat, it is whenever timing matters:
You can have initiative during exploration e.g. if there is a bomb in the palace that the party must find and deactivate before it goes off.
You can have initiative during social interactions, e.g. the party is interrogating an NPC that is attempting to escape.
You can have initiative during non-combat action encounter, e.g. the party is trying to escape a temple collapsing on them.
In previous editions all encounters were run in initiative including exploration and social, but the clumsiness and boringness of this is why in 5e it is left up to the discretion of the DM when initiative is needed or not.
The only "problem" is that in many of the situations of "readying" an action outside of combat can get very boring running it in full initiative. If one player is readying an action in case a captive tries to escape during an interrogation you now have the boring task of one or two players asking a question then having to way until the bad guy's turn for them to answer and then wait for the player's turn again etc.. etc... Likewise if a player is readying an action in case an enemy walks through a door and that enemy doesn't for 2-3 round that is a big waste of time to run through every turn of that initiative. This is also the case for e.g. if a sorcerer uses subtle spell to begin combat, yes you should immediately roll initiative but that initiative doesn't mean anyone else knows what the sorcerer is doing so the creatures that "beat" the sorcerer in initiative should RP without that metaknowledge and use their turn to do nothing (maybe make an insight or deception/persuasion check) since they have no knowledge that combat has actually begun yet, which leads to borning/redundant turn taking. Hence it is more time-efficient to just let characters ready actions outside of combat and allow that readied action to happen at the start of combat then roll initiative.
Hm. I think I can come up with a way to mostly make the surprise rules make sense, though this is still to some degree a house rule:
This seems to be your go-to defense. Are Bonus Actions only in combat? Attack Action only in combat? Whatever is the 2024 cast a spell action only in combat?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
A way for DM to mostly ensure the combat instigators will act before others is to use DMG guidelines for Initiative Score and apply Advantage to instigators and Disadvantage to those instigated, giving the following initiative result:
Instigator: 15 + DEX mod.
Instigated: 05 + DEX mod.
The way I have always handled this in the past is to have everyone roll initiative as soon as the first attack is made, then I start the combat on the turn for the player that made the attack (effectively making that attack the start of his/her turn). It's kind of like starting in the middle of the round, but it has worked well at our table.
I'm not fond of a method where those rolling higher than the instigator will play after it and anyone lower when they should instead play before. For example
Orc 16
Cleric 14
Instigator 13
Fighter 8
Rogue 7
Goblin 3
Kobold 1
But that is the correct way to do it RAW. Those who have initiative above the Instigator have no knowledge that the combat has started. Unless of course you simply do what I've been saying all along and just allow the Ready action outside of initiative, just like how the Disengage, Dodge, Attack, and Magic actions can be used outside of initiative.
Though honestly, starting in the middle of the round also makes sense to me. If you're a character with a high initiative bonus your supposed to be on a hare-trigger to fight all the time so should be the instigator most of the time. It encourages RP in line with the mechanics of the character which IMO is a good thing for verisimilitude. A happy go-lucky laidback character shouldn't be leaping into combat before everyone else just because they happen to be a Swashbuckler with a very high initiative bonus.
This argument comes up every so often - yes by RAW this as stated above is what should happen. In a real game if players hear noises and all say we are going to shoot through the door the minute it opens - I will let them shoot through the door and then initiative starts (granted that is the simplest form of ambush)
Taking the fun out of being the ambusher - or the dismay out of being the ambushed when the group is on the opposite side of it adds nothing to the game imo and I won't run my games that way.
Where is this rules written? RAW creatures actions initiating combat get Advantage on their Initiative roll, not automatically placed at the top.
Nope, correct way to do it RAW is that the people who roll above the instigator somehow divine what's about to happen and turn him into sausage before he can actually take his action.
The monster can "act" but it shouldn't metagame and know what the sorcerer is going to do before the sorcerer does it. It should act given the information available to it, just like players should act given the information available to them. Why are we suddenly forgetting about the ROLEPLAY part of our role playing game?
It should not matter whether one DM decides to start initiative as soon and the players know a monster exists, or if another DM decides to start initiative when the players can see the monster, or if another DM decides to start initiative when a player decides to attack the monster. The encounter should play out the same.
This is what I did. In large part for the same reason you gave. I can see the argument for running it using RAW for combat encounters: having the ambushers with the readied action to roll initiative, even with advantage because there's always a chance that the creatures being ambushed miraculously get off the first attack. But that seems implausible, and doesn't reward the players for their tactics. A good GM might allow the targets of the ambush to roll a perception check with an appropriate DC to detect the ambushers (appropriateness depends how well the ambushers are hidden, e.g., depending on the amount of cover, how quiet they are, etc.), so the ambush isn't automatic. I don't think there's a single way to run this sort of situation, but there are definitely better and worse ways.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
I'd rather give the instigator +20 to initiative than houserule start initiative in mid-turn order.
The point is, winning initiative should not be a penalty. Either change the rules so the first actor automatically wins initiative (or automatically wins initiative if unnoticed), which is what most computer versions of the rules have done, or use the rules as written.
Another option I considered is something like
The problem is that if you don't cast the spell, there was no indication that you were going to cast the spell. (with other attacks you can be like, well your hand was on the sword or whatever.) I mean I suppose you could be like, you start to cast the spell, but not enough that it wastes the spell slot if you stop. I get they made it exceptionally easy to handle combat, but I really don't like the way 5e did it. I think you really need a surprise round, or only the triggering character acts then imitative is called.
Actually according to the DMG you can not attack outside of combat. It basically comes right out and say you can't attack unless you are in combat.
An interesting solution, the only issue I have with it is that it penalizes characters like the barbarian who has a class feature that specifically interacts with initiative and characters who took Alert, who now actually miss the first round of combat, and any character who has disadvantage suddenly gets to act in the first round of combat. I think my fix would be to say the whoever initiated combat acts first in round one, then it follows initiative order. During turn two that player rolls initiative and acts in turn order.