I currently have a player who is a gold dragonborn druid who turns into gold animals. The party has just reached lvl 5 and the player asked if they could use their dragonborn racials while in Wildshape so I told them I would think about it. So I figured it would be cool to let them wild shape into a drake guard and use their breath attack but with the new 2024 rules they are also able to fly for 10 minutes which on its own I think is crazy broken but I hate the idea of limiting players and am trying to see if anyone has any suggestions that might help.
By RAW, they should not be able to use their species abilities while wildshaped (unless noted in the power’s description) They are, effectively, a different species and have a whole other set of abilities they by virtue of that. Giving them 2 creatures worth of abilities is going to be very strong.
Also, by RAW, they couldn’t turn into a Guard Drake, as it’s creature type is dragon, while wildshape only allows changing into beasts. And it’s a CR 2, which would also disqualify it as a choice. Even a moon Druid, the only kind that can change into CR 2 beasts, would need to be level 6.
Right I know that by the current rules, none of that is possible because of the things you mention, I was planning on homebrewing it to allow them to wildshape into Guard Drake so looking for some ideas on how I could limit it without taking too much power from the player, like maybe it takes 2 wild shape charges or only letting her fly for a shorter period of time or maybe just the ability to glide or something.
You could rule that the Flight from Dragonborn only works while they are a Medium sized creature? Or just say they can use their breath attack but not the flight. If you are HBing you can literally make up any rule you want.
I like the idea. It will cause you a few headaches, but that's fine. My main question is what are you giving the other players so they feel just as special?
Am I missing something here - Guard Drakes do not have a fly speed. Nor for that matter does a druid at the level you're discussing at least, they don't get fly speed until level 8. There isn't to my knowledge anything in the 2024 PHB that would alter that in terms of Druid Circles. They all specify 'lack a fly speed'. Granted I haven't yet had the chance to thoroughly examine the 2024 Monster Manual yet, so I'm basing this off of the Mordenkeinen's Monsters of the Multiverse Guard Drakes, but none of the varieties of Drake can actually fly.
So, allowing the Dragonborn Druid to use their breath weapon while wildshape would already be a concession. It isn't limiting players to the rules as written. Otherwise where would you stop? Would you allow wildshaped druids to use their weapons? 2024 rules too also make what I think is a big mistake - they allow the druid to retain the ability to speak. That's again another power increase for the druid there. Allowing a dragonborn to shape into a different form but retain the dragonborn ability to fly would just be that tough too powerful in my opinion.
Right I know that by the current rules, none of that is possible because of the things you mention, I was planning on homebrewing it to allow them to wildshape into Guard Drake so looking for some ideas on how I could limit it without taking too much power from the player, like maybe it takes 2 wild shape charges or only letting her fly for a shorter period of time or maybe just the ability to glide or something.
Allowing them to do it at all is giving lots of power to the player, not taking any away. I can definitely see an argument for ignoring the creature type annd allowing the guard drake, I don’t think that would be game-breaking. But even then, I’d make them wait a level (assuming they are a moon Druid) so the CR matches up to RAW. And if they are not a moon Druid, I wouldn’t allow it, as they’ll have other subclass abilities, and they shouldn’t get the benefits of 2 subclasses. If that’s the case, I’d suggest a re-skin, use wolf stats or something and say it looks like a drake.
And if you’re dead set on allowing Dragonborn abilities like breath weapons and flying, I’d make them wait until level 8 before they can fly while wild shaped so it’s not just short-circuiting the wild shape rules. Finally, I wouldn’t let them do both at the same time. No breathing while flying. I might even make it a sub-choice when they wildshape whether they want to breathe or fly, and if they want to switch between, that would use a wild shape charge.
Am I missing something here - Guard Drakes do not have a fly speed. Nor for that matter does a druid at the level you're discussing at least, they don't get fly speed until level 8. There isn't to my knowledge anything in the 2024 PHB that would alter that in terms of Druid Circles. They all specify 'lack a fly speed'. Granted I haven't yet had the chance to thoroughly examine the 2024 Monster Manual yet, so I'm basing this off of the Mordenkeinen's Monsters of the Multiverse Guard Drakes, but none of the varieties of Drake can actually fly.
So, allowing the Dragonborn Druid to use their breath weapon while wildshape would already be a concession. It isn't limiting players to the rules as written. Otherwise where would you stop? Would you allow wildshaped druids to use their weapons? 2024 rules too also make what I think is a big mistake - they allow the druid to retain the ability to speak. That's again another power increase for the druid there. Allowing a dragonborn to shape into a different form but retain the dragonborn ability to fly would just be that tough too powerful in my opinion.
No guard drakes do not have the ability to fly or use breath weapons, letting my druid turn into one was just a cool way to let them use their racial abilities while in wildshape. And with the new 2025 rules dragonborn can now magically fly at level 5 for 10 mins
Right I know that by the current rules, none of that is possible because of the things you mention, I was planning on homebrewing it to allow them to wildshape into Guard Drake so looking for some ideas on how I could limit it without taking too much power from the player, like maybe it takes 2 wild shape charges or only letting her fly for a shorter period of time or maybe just the ability to glide or something.
Allowing them to do it at all is giving lots of power to the player, not taking any away. I can definitely see an argument for ignoring the creature type annd allowing the guard drake, I don’t think that would be game-breaking. But even then, I’d make them wait a level (assuming they are a moon Druid) so the CR matches up to RAW. And if they are not a moon Druid, I wouldn’t allow it, as they’ll have other subclass abilities, and they shouldn’t get the benefits of 2 subclasses. If that’s the case, I’d suggest a re-skin, use wolf stats or something and say it looks like a drake.
And if you’re dead set on allowing Dragonborn abilities like breath weapons and flying, I’d make them wait until level 8 before they can fly while wild shaped so it’s not just short-circuiting the wild shape rules. Finally, I wouldn’t let them do both at the same time. No breathing while flying. I might even make it a sub-choice when they wildshape whether they want to breathe or fly, and if they want to switch between, that would use a wild shape charge.
She is a moon druid who generally turns into a bear which stat/attach wise is the same as the guard drake with a slightly higher AC of 14 (bear is 11) especially now they that they are only granted temp hp instead of a full hp bar, so I figured giving it to them at 5 wouldn't be to far out there. My thinking behind why it's weird to give her breath but not flight is because if she were in any other class she would be able to fly right now, but adding in all the utility of the druid that those classes wouldn't have I'll probably hold off on flying in wild shape until lvl 8 to balance it out.
Right I know that by the current rules, none of that is possible because of the things you mention, I was planning on homebrewing it to allow them to wildshape into Guard Drake so looking for some ideas on how I could limit it without taking too much power from the player, like maybe it takes 2 wild shape charges or only letting her fly for a shorter period of time or maybe just the ability to glide or something.
Allowing them to do it at all is giving lots of power to the player, not taking any away. I can definitely see an argument for ignoring the creature type annd allowing the guard drake, I don’t think that would be game-breaking. But even then, I’d make them wait a level (assuming they are a moon Druid) so the CR matches up to RAW. And if they are not a moon Druid, I wouldn’t allow it, as they’ll have other subclass abilities, and they shouldn’t get the benefits of 2 subclasses. If that’s the case, I’d suggest a re-skin, use wolf stats or something and say it looks like a drake.
And if you’re dead set on allowing Dragonborn abilities like breath weapons and flying, I’d make them wait until level 8 before they can fly while wild shaped so it’s not just short-circuiting the wild shape rules. Finally, I wouldn’t let them do both at the same time. No breathing while flying. I might even make it a sub-choice when they wildshape whether they want to breathe or fly, and if they want to switch between, that would use a wild shape charge.
She is a moon druid who generally turns into a bear which stat/attach wise is the same as the guard drake with a slightly higher AC of 14 (bear is 11) especially now they that they are only granted temp hp instead of a full hp bar, so I figured giving it to them at 5 wouldn't be to far out there. My thinking behind why it's weird to give her breath but not flight is because if she were in any other class she would be able to fly right now, but adding in all the utility of the druid that those classes wouldn't have I'll probably hold off on flying in wild shape until lvl 8 to balance it out.
She can still fly right now. Just not while wildshaped. Having players make choices about which abilities to use and when to use them is a big part of the game — and it’s like that by design. There’s always going to be a trade off, and a situation where one or the other is the right choice. Making those tactical decisions about which one to use and when is part of the fun.
Also, 3 points of AC is not slightly higher. It’s a good bit higher. It’s the difference between light and medium armor. It means you’ll be hit roughly 15 % less often.
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I currently have a player who is a gold dragonborn druid who turns into gold animals. The party has just reached lvl 5 and the player asked if they could use their dragonborn racials while in Wildshape so I told them I would think about it. So I figured it would be cool to let them wild shape into a drake guard and use their breath attack but with the new 2024 rules they are also able to fly for 10 minutes which on its own I think is crazy broken but I hate the idea of limiting players and am trying to see if anyone has any suggestions that might help.
By RAW, they should not be able to use their species abilities while wildshaped (unless noted in the power’s description) They are, effectively, a different species and have a whole other set of abilities they by virtue of that. Giving them 2 creatures worth of abilities is going to be very strong.
Also, by RAW, they couldn’t turn into a Guard Drake, as it’s creature type is dragon, while wildshape only allows changing into beasts. And it’s a CR 2, which would also disqualify it as a choice. Even a moon Druid, the only kind that can change into CR 2 beasts, would need to be level 6.
Right I know that by the current rules, none of that is possible because of the things you mention, I was planning on homebrewing it to allow them to wildshape into Guard Drake so looking for some ideas on how I could limit it without taking too much power from the player, like maybe it takes 2 wild shape charges or only letting her fly for a shorter period of time or maybe just the ability to glide or something.
You could rule that the Flight from Dragonborn only works while they are a Medium sized creature? Or just say they can use their breath attack but not the flight. If you are HBing you can literally make up any rule you want.
I like the idea. It will cause you a few headaches, but that's fine. My main question is what are you giving the other players so they feel just as special?
Am I missing something here - Guard Drakes do not have a fly speed. Nor for that matter does a druid at the level you're discussing at least, they don't get fly speed until level 8. There isn't to my knowledge anything in the 2024 PHB that would alter that in terms of Druid Circles. They all specify 'lack a fly speed'. Granted I haven't yet had the chance to thoroughly examine the 2024 Monster Manual yet, so I'm basing this off of the Mordenkeinen's Monsters of the Multiverse Guard Drakes, but none of the varieties of Drake can actually fly.
So, allowing the Dragonborn Druid to use their breath weapon while wildshape would already be a concession. It isn't limiting players to the rules as written. Otherwise where would you stop? Would you allow wildshaped druids to use their weapons? 2024 rules too also make what I think is a big mistake - they allow the druid to retain the ability to speak. That's again another power increase for the druid there. Allowing a dragonborn to shape into a different form but retain the dragonborn ability to fly would just be that tough too powerful in my opinion.
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Allowing them to do it at all is giving lots of power to the player, not taking any away.
I can definitely see an argument for ignoring the creature type annd allowing the guard drake, I don’t think that would be game-breaking. But even then, I’d make them wait a level (assuming they are a moon Druid) so the CR matches up to RAW. And if they are not a moon Druid, I wouldn’t allow it, as they’ll have other subclass abilities, and they shouldn’t get the benefits of 2 subclasses. If that’s the case, I’d suggest a re-skin, use wolf stats or something and say it looks like a drake.
And if you’re dead set on allowing Dragonborn abilities like breath weapons and flying, I’d make them wait until level 8 before they can fly while wild shaped so it’s not just short-circuiting the wild shape rules. Finally, I wouldn’t let them do both at the same time. No breathing while flying. I might even make it a sub-choice when they wildshape whether they want to breathe or fly, and if they want to switch between, that would use a wild shape charge.
No guard drakes do not have the ability to fly or use breath weapons, letting my druid turn into one was just a cool way to let them use their racial abilities while in wildshape. And with the new 2025 rules dragonborn can now magically fly at level 5 for 10 mins
She is a moon druid who generally turns into a bear which stat/attach wise is the same as the guard drake with a slightly higher AC of 14 (bear is 11) especially now they that they are only granted temp hp instead of a full hp bar, so I figured giving it to them at 5 wouldn't be to far out there. My thinking behind why it's weird to give her breath but not flight is because if she were in any other class she would be able to fly right now, but adding in all the utility of the druid that those classes wouldn't have I'll probably hold off on flying in wild shape until lvl 8 to balance it out.
She can still fly right now. Just not while wildshaped. Having players make choices about which abilities to use and when to use them is a big part of the game — and it’s like that by design. There’s always going to be a trade off, and a situation where one or the other is the right choice. Making those tactical decisions about which one to use and when is part of the fun.
Also, 3 points of AC is not slightly higher. It’s a good bit higher. It’s the difference between light and medium armor. It means you’ll be hit roughly 15 % less often.