I'm looking for ways to stop a familiar from being able to relay too much info back to its owner. One of my players character is a warlock who can use 'Find Familiar' at will and telepathically see through its eyes up to 100ft. This means that the party can get far too much info in advance and makes it hard for me to surprise them. As the warlock can chose the form, it means that monsters hiding anywhere can be spotted in advance!
I recently had the party find their way through a maze and had a gust of 'magic wind' blow away the owl familiar so that they had the fun of working out their way through it (the party was OK with this when I explained why I didn't want the familiar around for that point in time). However, I can't have a magic wind spring up every time I need to surprise them, so I would like some ideas for ways to take the familiar out of the picture some of the time.
A good idea is to always have a back up plan. For example, if your party is trying to make their way through a mountain pass and you have an ambush planned, and they happen to use a familiar to find them. In this situation there a few backups you could have, some depending on the party level: You could have multiple groups of bandits, so when they see one they go and fight them but then they will be surprised by another after the first fight. You could have the bandits accompanied by a mage that could use tiny hut, invisibility, etc. to hide them. or you could just have an area of anti-magic where they can't cast anything. These are just a few examples. Hope this helps. I wish you the best of luck.
So, firstly I'd suggest that seeing telepathically through the familiar's eyes is something you shouldn't be looking to nerf. What I would suggest is that you should be relying on the familiar's stat block, or outright refuse, if the player is attempting to make perception checks when looking through the familiar's eyes.
Likewise remember, that if the player character is looking through their familiar's eyes they are functionally blind through their character's eyes.
To me this question strikes a little like asking how to nerf the Clairvoyance. Using that spell to materialise the sensor at the end of the corridor where the players can't see is a fair and legitimate tactic by players. That's them using their abilities well. I've had players use this to great effect by having their characters plant their sensor to cover their backs when searching an unknown area.
And I'm sorry if it offends you but doing what you are asking is looking to nerf, or make irrelevant a player's choices when creating their character. If you don't like the spell find familiar you can ban it, but should have banned it at session zero. For now, take a mental note and remember this character ability in the future. If it's a big deal simply don't allow it at your tables in future. To be clear I don't recommend banning it, but it is an option you have open to you.
So, firstly I'd suggest that seeing telepathically through the familiar's eyes is something you shouldn't be looking to nerf. What I would suggest is that you should be relying on the familiar's stat block, or outright refuse, if the player is attempting to make perception checks when looking through the familiar's eyes.
Likewise remember, that if the player character is looking through their familiar's eyes they are functionally blind through their character's eyes.
To me this question strikes a little like asking how to nerf the Clairvoyance. Using that spell to materialise the sensor at the end of the corridor where the players can't see is a fair and legitimate tactic by players. That's them using their abilities well. I've had players use this to great effect by having their characters plant their sensor to cover their backs when searching an unknown area.
And I'm sorry if it offends you but doing what you are asking is looking to nerf, or make irrelevant a player's choices when creating their character. If you don't like the spell find familiar you can ban it, but should have banned it at session zero. For now, take a mental note and remember this character ability in the future. If it's a big deal simply don't allow it at your tables in future. To be clear I don't recommend banning it, but it is an option you have open to you.
Some of your comments depend on the 2014 version of the spell. In the 2024 version, characters are no longer blinded/deaf when utilizing the senses of the familiar.
"Telepathic Connection. While your familiar is within 100 feet of you, you can communicate with it telepathically. Additionally, as a Bonus Action, you can see through the familiar’s eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn, gaining the benefits of any special senses it has."
I agree with you though that the OP should not nerf the spell since the player likely picked it in good faith and familiars are very thematic for certain classes.
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To the OP, there are many ways to deal with a familiar.
1) Doors. Many familars can't open a door (though a warlock familiar like an imp might be able to do so - on the other hand a locked door might be an insurmountable barrier even for an imp). However, opening a door might also alert any creatures in the room to the presence of whatever opened the door. Familiars have very few hit points and are easily killed if they stumble into a dangerous situation.
2) Natural hazards and predators. Dungeons can be filled with creatures that will make short work of a familiar. Invisibility won't save a familiar that flies into a gelatinous cube.
3) Find familiar takes an hour to cast. It requires some material components that could be bulky. Cast as a ritual, it requires an extra 10 minutes. Most of the time, losing a familiar in a dungeon may mean that it will be absent for the rest of the dungeon since the party might not have an hour to safely recast the spell.
There are a lot of good narrative methods a DM can use to make the adventure interesting even if the character has a familiar - and without making the familiar useless.
3) Find familiar takes an hour to cast. It requires some material components that could be bulky. Cast as a ritual, it requires an extra 10 minutes. Most of the time, losing a familiar in a dungeon may mean that it will be absent for the rest of the dungeon since the party might not have an hour to safely recast the spell.
The current rules say that casting the spell takes an action, not an hour -D&D Free Rules (2024), pg. 272. However, it uses 10gp of incense to cast and what I can do is to limit the amount of incense available to buy. I hadn't thought of reducing the amount of components and that's the route I'll take for now while they are in a remote area, so thank you for pointing that out. I like your other suggestions too. It could be fun to have a spider or fly familiar eaten by a lizard or a fish eaten by a shark!
I don't want to stop the character from ever using the spell, just to stop them from using it all the time and being able to avoid ever having to battle a monster (and getting the resulting rewards!).
I'm looking for ways to stop a familiar from being able to relay too much info back to its owner.
Doors! Most familiars cannot open a door, and if they can it is a dead give away and the monsters on the other side should kill the familiar immediately.
Also: you should not expect any enemies who are not actively hiding from the party to surprise the party. If you want to surprise the party, you need to have a reason for the enemies to be hiding.
First, I'll say I share your frustration with the spell. As written, both in 2014 and 2024 rules, I personally think it's overpowered and conveys some outsized advantages on players.
To me, the biggest problem with find familiar is that there's zero cost for losing the familiar. With RAW, players have no call to be cautious or strategic in its use. Familiar dies? No problem! A brick of incense, an hour, and boom! You have your familiar back. Even more, since it has the ritual tag, it won't even cost you a spell slot.
Folks above have pointed out some good ways to organically limit the effectiveness of the familiar in terms of scouting. Doors are a very good way of foiling them. It's also not arbitrary to make a lot of creatures ready to spear/shoot/kill intrusive critters that are noticed. Finally, if the opposition has a spellcaster or someone versed in arcane ways, they can either spot a familiar or give instructions for their minions to kill all similar creatures on sight.
However, I've houseruled the spell to be a bit less consequence-free. Reaching back to previous editions of the game, I've tweaked the spell so that players might not be so ready to sacrifice their tiny little spies. Here are my changes:
Material components cost 50 gp (instead of 10 gp RAW). If the familiar drops to 0 hit points, the spellcaster must make a DC 10 Constitution save or be Incapacitated until the end of their next turn. If the familiar drops to 0 hit points while the spellcaster is using the familiar’s senses, the DC increases to15; failure means the spellcaster is Blinded and Deafened until the end of their next turn. (You may also want to remove the ritual tag from the spell.)
Even if the familiar is invisible, it still has to roll stealth checks to avoid being detected by enemies. The checks will be at advantage if the familiar is invisible, sure, but if it flies via wings it's still going to need to flap them, which makes sound. The familiar also has to make perception checks, using its own stats, not the caster's. If the check isn't high enough, it's not going to spot things. This in particular is the bane of familiars in Critical Role. despite using familiars fairly frequently to scout, they often roll poorly.
Familiars also may be too light or fly over any floor-based traps which can complicate things or draw the attention of dungeon denizens.
You can also ask your players to tell you exactly how much incense they have on them right now, to lock them into that many castings until they get back to town (and make sure they deduct that from their inventory). What's more, 10 GP is a lot of money for commoners. 1 GP is NOT $1 USD, it should be considered to be about $100 USD. 10 GP is $1,000 USD. So the smaller the town, the less there will likely be available to purchase in the first place. If they said "I bought 100 GP worth from the small village," say that "the town is pretty small, that shop would not have enough business to afford to stock 100 GP ($10,000 USD) just of incense, you can have 20-30 GP worth at the absolute most."
Personally, I would take such an approach or combination of the above first over Xukuri's homebrew rules, especially since imposing a bunch of those restrictions will come across to the player like a deliberate targeted attempt to squash their character choices - because that's exactly what it is.
10 GP may be a lot for commoners, but for adventurers beyond 1st level, it's not - not unless the DM is really, really stingy with gold piece rewards or treasure for adventures. And that only becomes more true as the PCs advance in levels. 10 GP is practically nothing for a 5th level adventurer. I do agree that having PCs track blocks of incense is a good, RAW way to deal with find familiar.
My rules aren't intended to quash choices: they're meant to bring some balance to what I view as an overpowered advantage (especially at lower levels) as well as being in line with my personal preference of game design that most power should have a built-in limit or cost. (Don't even get me started on the artificer's steel defender.)
If your monsters are actively hiding, the familiar shouldn't be always spotting them. Make sure you are actively giving the monsters stealth and managing against the perception of the familiar. Even pick stealthier monsters if you need to. Put them in brushy, tree-filled canyons and mountain passes where there is very good cover.
Now the familiar is a double-edged sword. Sometimes they find enemies and the party avoids them or is better prepared. But sometimes the party is going to think they're quite safe when they aren't.
3) Find familiar takes an hour to cast. It requires some material components that could be bulky. Cast as a ritual, it requires an extra 10 minutes. Most of the time, losing a familiar in a dungeon may mean that it will be absent for the rest of the dungeon since the party might not have an hour to safely recast the spell.
The current rules say that casting the spell takes an action, not an hour -D&D Free Rules (2024), pg. 272. However, it uses 10gp of incense to cast and what I can do is to limit the amount of incense available to buy. I hadn't thought of reducing the amount of components and that's the route I'll take for now while they are in a remote area, so thank you for pointing that out. I like your other suggestions too. It could be fun to have a spider or fly familiar eaten by a lizard or a fish eaten by a shark!
I don't want to stop the character from ever using the spell, just to stop them from using it all the time and being able to avoid ever having to battle a monster (and getting the resulting rewards!).
Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply!
That is probably not the way to go about it.
Look at history to be your guide. In WWII there would be buildings and rooms cleared in France, but the Germans moved in after via cellars and tunnels. Therefore, the place was never actually cleared.
Create ambushes in areas after the familiar cleared the area. that will modify how far in advance the familiar is/or looks. Set up ambushes in areas the party has already got through.
Who is organizing the ambushes? A BBEG or high ranking lieutenant?? If so maybe he can spy on the "spy" making the ambushes feints to the actual ambushes.
Actually this forum stated that the Warlock eldritch invocation for these creatures takes an action. This is not the actual spell, but a eldritch invocation that is 99% similar to the spell. The creatures that can be used go beyond the creatures listed in the spell. e.g. quasits & pseudodragons & skeletons and spites etc.
A similar spell is mage armor, that can be cast to afford 24/7 coverage.
10 GP may be a lot for commoners, but for adventurers beyond 1st level, it's not - not unless the DM is really, really stingy with gold piece rewards or treasure for adventures. And that only becomes more true as the PCs advance in levels. 10 GP is practically nothing for a 5th level adventurer. I do agree that having PCs track blocks of incense is a good, RAW way to deal with find familiar.
I never implied that 10 GP of incense was a lot for an adventurer. However, depending on the size of the community, a commoner owner of a store may not have 100 GP worth of incense in stock to buy; there may not be enough business in a small village to justify the stock. Therefore, it would make sense that there might not be as much incense to purchase as the PC's want. (Mercer tends to do this often with healing potions; there are rarely more than a handful to purchase, even in large metropolises.)
Look at history to be your guide. In WWII there would be buildings and rooms cleared in France, but the Germans moved in after via cellars and tunnels. Therefore, the place was never actually cleared.
Create ambushes in areas after the familiar cleared the area. that will modify how far in advance the familiar is/or looks. Set up ambushes in areas the party has already got through.
Who is organizing the ambushes? A BBEG or high ranking lieutenant?? If so maybe he can spy on the "spy" making the ambushes feints to the actual ambushes.
I would use that sort of approach sparingly, or else the PC's will get the impression that the monsters are "cheating," or rather that the DM is. If enemies consistently move in "conveniently" after the familiar has scouted, it will certainly discourage PC's from using the familiar to scout, but they'll do so because they understand that the DM is blatantly not going to play fair.
I never implied that 10 GP of incense was a lot for an adventurer. However, depending on the size of the community, a commoner owner of a store may not have 100 GP worth of incense in stock to buy; there may not be enough business in a small village to justify the stock. Therefore, it would make sense that there might not be as much incense to purchase as the PC's want. (Mercer tends to do this often with healing potions; there are rarely more than a handful to purchase, even in large metropolises.)
This is a good point! I agree: smaller settlements aren't going to have oodles of incense in stock.
Go to the warlock forum and look for the thread entitled
Changing you familiar - Pact of chain
Huh! You learn something new everyday! The only caveat is that only warlocks - and only warlocks who chose the Pact of the Chain invocation - get this.
Having said that....this just makes me like my houserules for find familiar even more.
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I'm looking for ways to stop a familiar from being able to relay too much info back to its owner. One of my players character is a warlock who can use 'Find Familiar' at will and telepathically see through its eyes up to 100ft. This means that the party can get far too much info in advance and makes it hard for me to surprise them. As the warlock can chose the form, it means that monsters hiding anywhere can be spotted in advance!
I recently had the party find their way through a maze and had a gust of 'magic wind' blow away the owl familiar so that they had the fun of working out their way through it (the party was OK with this when I explained why I didn't want the familiar around for that point in time). However, I can't have a magic wind spring up every time I need to surprise them, so I would like some ideas for ways to take the familiar out of the picture some of the time.
Many thanks!
A good idea is to always have a back up plan. For example, if your party is trying to make their way through a mountain pass and you have an ambush planned, and they happen to use a familiar to find them. In this situation there a few backups you could have, some depending on the party level: You could have multiple groups of bandits, so when they see one they go and fight them but then they will be surprised by another after the first fight. You could have the bandits accompanied by a mage that could use tiny hut, invisibility, etc. to hide them. or you could just have an area of anti-magic where they can't cast anything. These are just a few examples. Hope this helps. I wish you the best of luck.
Thank you for this. I'll bear those things in mind.
So, firstly I'd suggest that seeing telepathically through the familiar's eyes is something you shouldn't be looking to nerf. What I would suggest is that you should be relying on the familiar's stat block, or outright refuse, if the player is attempting to make perception checks when looking through the familiar's eyes.
Likewise remember, that if the player character is looking through their familiar's eyes they are functionally blind through their character's eyes.
To me this question strikes a little like asking how to nerf the Clairvoyance. Using that spell to materialise the sensor at the end of the corridor where the players can't see is a fair and legitimate tactic by players. That's them using their abilities well. I've had players use this to great effect by having their characters plant their sensor to cover their backs when searching an unknown area.
And I'm sorry if it offends you but doing what you are asking is looking to nerf, or make irrelevant a player's choices when creating their character. If you don't like the spell find familiar you can ban it, but should have banned it at session zero. For now, take a mental note and remember this character ability in the future. If it's a big deal simply don't allow it at your tables in future. To be clear I don't recommend banning it, but it is an option you have open to you.
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Some of your comments depend on the 2014 version of the spell. In the 2024 version, characters are no longer blinded/deaf when utilizing the senses of the familiar.
"Telepathic Connection. While your familiar is within 100 feet of you, you can communicate with it telepathically. Additionally, as a Bonus Action, you can see through the familiar’s eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn, gaining the benefits of any special senses it has."
I agree with you though that the OP should not nerf the spell since the player likely picked it in good faith and familiars are very thematic for certain classes.
-----------
To the OP, there are many ways to deal with a familiar.
1) Doors. Many familars can't open a door (though a warlock familiar like an imp might be able to do so - on the other hand a locked door might be an insurmountable barrier even for an imp). However, opening a door might also alert any creatures in the room to the presence of whatever opened the door. Familiars have very few hit points and are easily killed if they stumble into a dangerous situation.
2) Natural hazards and predators. Dungeons can be filled with creatures that will make short work of a familiar. Invisibility won't save a familiar that flies into a gelatinous cube.
3) Find familiar takes an hour to cast. It requires some material components that could be bulky. Cast as a ritual, it requires an extra 10 minutes. Most of the time, losing a familiar in a dungeon may mean that it will be absent for the rest of the dungeon since the party might not have an hour to safely recast the spell.
There are a lot of good narrative methods a DM can use to make the adventure interesting even if the character has a familiar - and without making the familiar useless.
The current rules say that casting the spell takes an action, not an hour -D&D Free Rules (2024), pg. 272. However, it uses 10gp of incense to cast and what I can do is to limit the amount of incense available to buy. I hadn't thought of reducing the amount of components and that's the route I'll take for now while they are in a remote area, so thank you for pointing that out. I like your other suggestions too. It could be fun to have a spider or fly familiar eaten by a lizard or a fish eaten by a shark!
I don't want to stop the character from ever using the spell, just to stop them from using it all the time and being able to avoid ever having to battle a monster (and getting the resulting rewards!).
Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply!
Magic Missile: always hits and most Familiars are low in Hit Points.
playing since 1986
Doors! Most familiars cannot open a door, and if they can it is a dead give away and the monsters on the other side should kill the familiar immediately.
Also: you should not expect any enemies who are not actively hiding from the party to surprise the party. If you want to surprise the party, you need to have a reason for the enemies to be hiding.
First, I'll say I share your frustration with the spell. As written, both in 2014 and 2024 rules, I personally think it's overpowered and conveys some outsized advantages on players.
To me, the biggest problem with find familiar is that there's zero cost for losing the familiar. With RAW, players have no call to be cautious or strategic in its use. Familiar dies? No problem! A brick of incense, an hour, and boom! You have your familiar back. Even more, since it has the ritual tag, it won't even cost you a spell slot.
Folks above have pointed out some good ways to organically limit the effectiveness of the familiar in terms of scouting. Doors are a very good way of foiling them. It's also not arbitrary to make a lot of creatures ready to spear/shoot/kill intrusive critters that are noticed. Finally, if the opposition has a spellcaster or someone versed in arcane ways, they can either spot a familiar or give instructions for their minions to kill all similar creatures on sight.
However, I've houseruled the spell to be a bit less consequence-free. Reaching back to previous editions of the game, I've tweaked the spell so that players might not be so ready to sacrifice their tiny little spies. Here are my changes:
Material components cost 50 gp (instead of 10 gp RAW). If the familiar drops to 0 hit points, the spellcaster must make a DC 10 Constitution save or be Incapacitated until the end of their next turn. If the familiar drops to 0 hit points while the spellcaster is using the familiar’s senses, the DC increases to15; failure means the spellcaster is Blinded and Deafened until the end of their next turn. (You may also want to remove the ritual tag from the spell.)
Even if the familiar is invisible, it still has to roll stealth checks to avoid being detected by enemies. The checks will be at advantage if the familiar is invisible, sure, but if it flies via wings it's still going to need to flap them, which makes sound. The familiar also has to make perception checks, using its own stats, not the caster's. If the check isn't high enough, it's not going to spot things. This in particular is the bane of familiars in Critical Role. despite using familiars fairly frequently to scout, they often roll poorly.
Familiars also may be too light or fly over any floor-based traps which can complicate things or draw the attention of dungeon denizens.
You can also ask your players to tell you exactly how much incense they have on them right now, to lock them into that many castings until they get back to town (and make sure they deduct that from their inventory). What's more, 10 GP is a lot of money for commoners. 1 GP is NOT $1 USD, it should be considered to be about $100 USD. 10 GP is $1,000 USD. So the smaller the town, the less there will likely be available to purchase in the first place. If they said "I bought 100 GP worth from the small village," say that "the town is pretty small, that shop would not have enough business to afford to stock 100 GP ($10,000 USD) just of incense, you can have 20-30 GP worth at the absolute most."
Personally, I would take such an approach or combination of the above first over Xukuri's homebrew rules, especially since imposing a bunch of those restrictions will come across to the player like a deliberate targeted attempt to squash their character choices - because that's exactly what it is.
10 GP may be a lot for commoners, but for adventurers beyond 1st level, it's not - not unless the DM is really, really stingy with gold piece rewards or treasure for adventures. And that only becomes more true as the PCs advance in levels. 10 GP is practically nothing for a 5th level adventurer. I do agree that having PCs track blocks of incense is a good, RAW way to deal with find familiar.
My rules aren't intended to quash choices: they're meant to bring some balance to what I view as an overpowered advantage (especially at lower levels) as well as being in line with my personal preference of game design that most power should have a built-in limit or cost. (Don't even get me started on the artificer's steel defender.)
If your monsters are actively hiding, the familiar shouldn't be always spotting them. Make sure you are actively giving the monsters stealth and managing against the perception of the familiar. Even pick stealthier monsters if you need to. Put them in brushy, tree-filled canyons and mountain passes where there is very good cover.
Now the familiar is a double-edged sword. Sometimes they find enemies and the party avoids them or is better prepared. But sometimes the party is going to think they're quite safe when they aren't.
That is probably not the way to go about it.
Look at history to be your guide. In WWII there would be buildings and rooms cleared in France, but the Germans moved in after via cellars and tunnels. Therefore, the place was never actually cleared.
Create ambushes in areas after the familiar cleared the area. that will modify how far in advance the familiar is/or looks. Set up ambushes in areas the party has already got through.
Who is organizing the ambushes? A BBEG or high ranking lieutenant?? If so maybe he can spy on the "spy" making the ambushes feints to the actual ambushes.
This is incorrect. Both the 2024 PHB and the free online 2024 rules state the spell takes an hour to cast.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/2618877-find-familiar
Actually this forum stated that the Warlock eldritch invocation for these creatures takes an action. This is not the actual spell, but a eldritch invocation that is 99% similar to the spell. The creatures that can be used go beyond the creatures listed in the spell. e.g. quasits & pseudodragons & skeletons and spites etc.
A similar spell is mage armor, that can be cast to afford 24/7 coverage.
Go to the warlock forum and look for the thread entitled
Changing you familiar - Pact of chain
I never implied that 10 GP of incense was a lot for an adventurer. However, depending on the size of the community, a commoner owner of a store may not have 100 GP worth of incense in stock to buy; there may not be enough business in a small village to justify the stock. Therefore, it would make sense that there might not be as much incense to purchase as the PC's want. (Mercer tends to do this often with healing potions; there are rarely more than a handful to purchase, even in large metropolises.)
I would use that sort of approach sparingly, or else the PC's will get the impression that the monsters are "cheating," or rather that the DM is. If enemies consistently move in "conveniently" after the familiar has scouted, it will certainly discourage PC's from using the familiar to scout, but they'll do so because they understand that the DM is blatantly not going to play fair.
This is a good point! I agree: smaller settlements aren't going to have oodles of incense in stock.
Huh! You learn something new everyday! The only caveat is that only warlocks - and only warlocks who chose the Pact of the Chain invocation - get this.
Having said that....this just makes me like my houserules for find familiar even more.