so to preface this, This is the first game ive ever dmed and i was never supposed to be running the game. i took over for a gm who dropped out. ive been running it since feb/march ish and i think everyone is having fun but the problem is no one really talks to me outside the game? they show up, usually late, we play for like 2 and a half to three hours and then they never talk to me again until the next meeting. no ones ever complained about the game or said they weren't having fun but they also dont engage with me, they dont tell me if they are having fun. every time ive tried to set up like a new session zero to gage where everyone is in terms of satisfaction i get blown off with an "everything is fine" if anyone answers at all
the lack of like. involvement from my players is really draining me and idk if this is normal and i need to adjust how i think things should be going, or if they're unnaturally distant. we all have jobs and lives and stuff but i know ive started putting less effort into the game and thats not fair even if they do treat it like a book they can pick up and read for a bit before putting it away until next time. is there anything i can do about this? like maybe spring a surprise session Zero on them instead of a regular game?
The *vast* majority of players won't do anything between sessions, and most of the time there's no real need for them to do so. If there *is* something you want out of them between sessions, ask them directly; don't expect them to come to you with some new cool bit of world-building or whatever.
I DM one game and play in two others (one non-D&D) at the moment, and have GMed other non-D&D games in the past. Sometimes you'll get a player that likes to add things to the game world, but most of the time they'll just show up for the regularly scheduled game, play, then leave, with either no time or no inclination to do anything else. And, really, for the most part there's no need for anything more.
You really *shouldn't* need an entire session to talk about how everyone is feeling about the game; that's something you should be trying to judge throughout the gameplay, and if you can't tell with a particular player you should ask them.
That all said, you should probably take some time either before or after one of the regularly-scheduled sessions to ask them about your DMing. Their answers may not last a few hours, so I would expect it to segue into a proper game afterwards or take up some time after a game has already been played.
its not that i'm expecting them to help with the world building. its more like, im expecting them engage with me about their thoughts on the previous session and if there's something that I would need to do to make it more enjoyable. some sort of feedback maybe. is that a strange thing to ask for lol?
if you're after feedback, ask for it. typically, I only received feedback voluntarily if something particularly notable, good or bad, happened, or a summary "That was good. next week?"
I drive my wife (one of the players) crazy with those kind of questions, and she kept saying “You don’t need to ask me that, you need to ask everyone that. So she set up a Google Drive account and I make a survey for the players to fill out each week. My group is new, I don’t know what I’m doing and I need input.
Usually I ask them things what story elements are needed or forshadow stuff that’s coming up (which they will probably need to have thought about). It doesn’t work well. It literally takes 5 minutes to fill out, and I have a 50% return rate. But I have some feed back.
Specific questions are better than vague. Surveys can be done quickly and on your own time. I do have “deadlines” for when to fill out the survey, and regular prompts to do so, but you have to, otherwise nobody will fill them out.
I'm in the same boat as you, i've just gathered that ultimately DMing is a relatively thankless job. Though if you aren't getting feedback you can also consider that good feedback because if you do something that upsets a player they will normally let you know. I like to end my sessions with "Alright what did everyone think of that?" the answer is normally a bland "that was good" or something along the same lines.
I DM at a number of different places, for a wide variety of players and when it comes to feedback...it's like a pedulum: there's no middle ground.
Ask for feedback, start it off by giving an example of what you'd like back and make it specific.
"Did you all have fun tonight", "Yea"....that's what most people are familiar with for DM feedback.
"What did you think about that fight with the giant, badger riding, pygmy? I'm not sure I made him interesting enough" This will get a more detailed response.
---
However, you may also find that once you open that floodgate, it won't close. There are those out there that think they have to flex their creative muscles every chance they get, whether they're a player or DM...and sometimes you'll just have to smile, nod, and walk away slowly...avoiding eye contact...
--
No matter how hard you push to get them to communicate outside of the game...you can't make them. Remind them, hint at it, but it's ultimately up to them to put the time into it that a DM is going to.
I'm in the same boat as you, i've just gathered that ultimately DMing is a relatively thankless job.
A few years back, I was getting really burned out by how it seemed like no one was really appreciative of what efforts I put into running and hosting games for them. So I tried an experiment to see if I could "fish" out some positive comments; I started ending each session with telling my players how I felt about the session, and thanking them for coming out to play.
The players then started saying "Thanks for running" and sharing their thoughts about the preceding session, or what they look forward to doing in the next session.
Though if you aren't getting feedback you can also consider that good feedback because if you do something that upsets a player they will normally let you know.
That, or stop showing up all together. So yes, in many ways, a lack of feedback is safe to treat as positive feedback.
However, I'd still encourage trying to open a conversation at the end of a session as everyone is packing up to leave (so as to not hamper the conversation with the feeling of having to spend time on it that could have been spent doing something else) to get some actual feedback. In my experience, some players get the idea in their head that their only means of input that will be accepted by a DM is to show up and play, or to not show up at all. Sometimes it's because they've had a DM that shot down their input and disregarded their feedback until they no longer felt like giving it, but sometimes it is just an assumption that there is a hard separation between the players and DM (that doesn't inherently exist) that leaves the player limited to only having an opinion on what goes onto their character sheet, not anything about the rest of the game experience.
Or maybe these players want to keep the game casual and aren't interested in anything that feels like extra effort.
I feel that d&d is about "collaborative storytelling" your players are listening, and not necessarily contributing to the storytelling. my suggestion; role playing ambush! for example, at the end of a session, have a messenger deliver a bonafide note to a specific player: "your father is Ill, come at once!" this puts some onus and opportunity on the player to speak to their relationships, family, home... all that. maybe it's a rouse, perhaps there is a grave responsibility as the xth child of y. etc etc. FM and player work together to tell this new story.
I think it depends a lot on context. Your description sounds more like a group of folks getting together at a game store or other location to play where the players may not know each other that well rather than a group of friends who know each other outside the context of D&D.
In the first case, you likely won't get any interactions outside the context of playing the game session. If you want some feedback you should specifically ask how folks felt about the session or if they have any comments at the end of the session. If everyone more or less keeps showing up, contributes during the session and seems to be having a good time then you are being successful. (when I am playing in groups like this I am pretty cognizant to thank the DM and mention that I enjoyed playing since they have put their time in to keep all the players entertained ... and that sort of feedback is one of the rewards a should DM get in terms of knowing that their efforts are appreciated :) )
If you are talking about a group of acquaintances or friends whom you know from outside the D&D sessions then I'd probably expect a greater level of interaction and contact between sessions ... but that has more to do with friendships and expectations).
In this particular situation, how you ended up becoming the DM and how you met the players are both elements that would contribute to figuring out what a reasonable level of interaction would be ...
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so to preface this, This is the first game ive ever dmed and i was never supposed to be running the game. i took over for a gm who dropped out. ive been running it since feb/march ish and i think everyone is having fun but the problem is no one really talks to me outside the game? they show up, usually late, we play for like 2 and a half to three hours and then they never talk to me again until the next meeting. no ones ever complained about the game or said they weren't having fun but they also dont engage with me, they dont tell me if they are having fun. every time ive tried to set up like a new session zero to gage where everyone is in terms of satisfaction i get blown off with an "everything is fine" if anyone answers at all
the lack of like. involvement from my players is really draining me and idk if this is normal and i need to adjust how i think things should be going, or if they're unnaturally distant. we all have jobs and lives and stuff but i know ive started putting less effort into the game and thats not fair even if they do treat it like a book they can pick up and read for a bit before putting it away until next time. is there anything i can do about this? like maybe spring a surprise session Zero on them instead of a regular game?
What are you expecting out of them?
The *vast* majority of players won't do anything between sessions, and most of the time there's no real need for them to do so. If there *is* something you want out of them between sessions, ask them directly; don't expect them to come to you with some new cool bit of world-building or whatever.
I DM one game and play in two others (one non-D&D) at the moment, and have GMed other non-D&D games in the past. Sometimes you'll get a player that likes to add things to the game world, but most of the time they'll just show up for the regularly scheduled game, play, then leave, with either no time or no inclination to do anything else. And, really, for the most part there's no need for anything more.
You really *shouldn't* need an entire session to talk about how everyone is feeling about the game; that's something you should be trying to judge throughout the gameplay, and if you can't tell with a particular player you should ask them.
That all said, you should probably take some time either before or after one of the regularly-scheduled sessions to ask them about your DMing. Their answers may not last a few hours, so I would expect it to segue into a proper game afterwards or take up some time after a game has already been played.
its not that i'm expecting them to help with the world building. its more like, im expecting them engage with me about their thoughts on the previous session and if there's something that I would need to do to make it more enjoyable. some sort of feedback maybe. is that a strange thing to ask for lol?
if you're after feedback, ask for it. typically, I only received feedback voluntarily if something particularly notable, good or bad, happened, or a summary "That was good. next week?"
I drive my wife (one of the players) crazy with those kind of questions, and she kept saying “You don’t need to ask me that, you need to ask everyone that. So she set up a Google Drive account and I make a survey for the players to fill out each week. My group is new, I don’t know what I’m doing and I need input.
Usually I ask them things what story elements are needed or forshadow stuff that’s coming up (which they will probably need to have thought about). It doesn’t work well. It literally takes 5 minutes to fill out, and I have a 50% return rate. But I have some feed back.
Specific questions are better than vague. Surveys can be done quickly and on your own time. I do have “deadlines” for when to fill out the survey, and regular prompts to do so, but you have to, otherwise nobody will fill them out.
I'm in the same boat as you, i've just gathered that ultimately DMing is a relatively thankless job. Though if you aren't getting feedback you can also consider that good feedback because if you do something that upsets a player they will normally let you know. I like to end my sessions with "Alright what did everyone think of that?" the answer is normally a bland "that was good" or something along the same lines.
I DM at a number of different places, for a wide variety of players and when it comes to feedback...it's like a pedulum: there's no middle ground.
Ask for feedback, start it off by giving an example of what you'd like back and make it specific.
"Did you all have fun tonight", "Yea"....that's what most people are familiar with for DM feedback.
"What did you think about that fight with the giant, badger riding, pygmy? I'm not sure I made him interesting enough"
This will get a more detailed response.
---
However, you may also find that once you open that floodgate, it won't close. There are those out there that think they have to flex their creative muscles every chance they get, whether they're a player or DM...and sometimes you'll just have to smile, nod, and walk away slowly...avoiding eye contact...
--
No matter how hard you push to get them to communicate outside of the game...you can't make them. Remind them, hint at it, but it's ultimately up to them to put the time into it that a DM is going to.
A few years back, I was getting really burned out by how it seemed like no one was really appreciative of what efforts I put into running and hosting games for them. So I tried an experiment to see if I could "fish" out some positive comments; I started ending each session with telling my players how I felt about the session, and thanking them for coming out to play.
The players then started saying "Thanks for running" and sharing their thoughts about the preceding session, or what they look forward to doing in the next session.
That, or stop showing up all together. So yes, in many ways, a lack of feedback is safe to treat as positive feedback.However, I'd still encourage trying to open a conversation at the end of a session as everyone is packing up to leave (so as to not hamper the conversation with the feeling of having to spend time on it that could have been spent doing something else) to get some actual feedback. In my experience, some players get the idea in their head that their only means of input that will be accepted by a DM is to show up and play, or to not show up at all. Sometimes it's because they've had a DM that shot down their input and disregarded their feedback until they no longer felt like giving it, but sometimes it is just an assumption that there is a hard separation between the players and DM (that doesn't inherently exist) that leaves the player limited to only having an opinion on what goes onto their character sheet, not anything about the rest of the game experience.
Or maybe these players want to keep the game casual and aren't interested in anything that feels like extra effort.
I feel that d&d is about "collaborative storytelling" your players are listening, and not necessarily contributing to the storytelling. my suggestion; role playing ambush! for example, at the end of a session, have a messenger deliver a bonafide note to a specific player: "your father is Ill, come at once!" this puts some onus and opportunity on the player to speak to their relationships, family, home... all that. maybe it's a rouse, perhaps there is a grave responsibility as the xth child of y. etc etc. FM and player work together to tell this new story.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Interesting question.
I think it depends a lot on context. Your description sounds more like a group of folks getting together at a game store or other location to play where the players may not know each other that well rather than a group of friends who know each other outside the context of D&D.
In the first case, you likely won't get any interactions outside the context of playing the game session. If you want some feedback you should specifically ask how folks felt about the session or if they have any comments at the end of the session. If everyone more or less keeps showing up, contributes during the session and seems to be having a good time then you are being successful. (when I am playing in groups like this I am pretty cognizant to thank the DM and mention that I enjoyed playing since they have put their time in to keep all the players entertained ... and that sort of feedback is one of the rewards a should DM get in terms of knowing that their efforts are appreciated :) )
If you are talking about a group of acquaintances or friends whom you know from outside the D&D sessions then I'd probably expect a greater level of interaction and contact between sessions ... but that has more to do with friendships and expectations).
In this particular situation, how you ended up becoming the DM and how you met the players are both elements that would contribute to figuring out what a reasonable level of interaction would be ...