Asking the general rules most of y'all have in your games!
Telepathic conversations. The animals have intelligence right? I'm equating most with human toddlers. They can understand basic tasks but complex tasks a intelligence check would due with the animals mod?
Giving sneak attack and advantage? They are an ally but do they count for sneak attack if in 5ft range?
Thoughts or maybe more info?
Thanks
M
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Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
they are NOT animals. they are otherworldly entities that have taken the form of animals.
in my opinion; a familiar needs to "threaten" an enemy to be considered an ally; bear in mind a familiar in general cannot take the attack action but can take the help action which provides advantage on your first attack. alternatively a familiar can deliver a touch spell you cast which would certainly be threatening.
I would allow for sneak attacks on any round the familiar used an action or reaction to the detriment of the target of the sneak attack.
Gigaflop is correct when he says that familiars are fiends, fae or celestials in the form of animals.
Familiars can also use the Help action though to give an ally (i.e. you) advantage on your attack if they are 5ft within range of the target. This should trigger Sneak Attack if the advantage is given to a Rogue. Of course, you may need to describe how the familiar helps with the attack depending on the DM.
Basically, y'all consider them a pocket PC within a PC? Isn't that a little OP? I thought my interpretation was balanced at least. I get a supernatural animal but how does that affect their stats? ALL The familiar stats I've seen are for the animal itself NOT a new form of wiggy-familiar spirit version! Celestial, fiend, or fey it's still in an animal form people with that animals stats?!
They are, however, quite intelligent as their minds are not limited to their animal forms.
They tend to not be OP as they have the animal's hit points, and having them slain/discorporated requires downtime and material components for the spell to reconstitute them - so its not something you could do in the middle of combat.
While technically, you can use them for the help action, or delivering touch spells in combat, or granting sneak attack, this tends to put them in harms way, and given that they don't have much in the way of hit points, they can suddenly go poof in the middle of combat.
Because they are somewhat of an extension of a Wizard's abilities, but they're fragile, familiars require a little bit of forethought and creativity to use well.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
it is not uncommon to roleplay a significant bond between familiars and those that summon them. I agree that putting them in harms way is unwise and possibly out of character. one should be allowed to occasionally employ a tactical endeavour here and there but generally familiars are for scouting, spying, delivering messages and adding flavour to the spellcasters every day schtick. not really a combatant.
I have been wondering about this telepathic connection a wizard has with their companion. Would it be too much of a stretch to incorporate a telepathic backlash to the wizard? In case his familiar dies he takes a certain amount of psychic damage as well? Never played with a familiar. Unsure if this would be to harsh or just a nice addition to make sure Wizards will cheese less with the familiars.
It's an interesting idea - I don't know if I'd incorporate psychic damage , but perhaps disorient the player in some way - disadvantage on mental ability rolls for one turn, perhaps?
I suspect that your idea is to make the loss of a familiar have some significant cost for the player. If you're enforcing material components in spell casting, this is covered at lower levels as the materials can be significant, although not for characters with a few adventures under their belt.
Another option would be to incorporate some sort of "loyalty mechanic" - if the person I'm working for constantly abuses me and gets me killed, I quit! Their familiar leaves, and while they could summon another, I may, at that point start having the wizard make a Charisma check every time they try and use the spell, or get ignored. Keep abusing familiars and the word spreads so that no such creature is willing to work for that Wizard. I would also give the character means for strengthening loyalty and/or making amends for past incidents.
It might not need be a mechanic but just role-played off of gut-feel - but I think a relationship between the Wizard and any sentient being is something that can be strengthened, damaged, or broken, by the Wizards actions and attitudes.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Telepathic conversations. The animals have intelligence right? I'm equating most with human toddlers. They can understand basic tasks but complex tasks a intelligence check would due with the animals mod?
The telepathy allows the familiar to communicate basic ideas and concepts to you. It cannot speak and would not have a mental voice but can send you the image of some creature it has seen with the feeling of fear or danger in order to let you know an enemy approaches or impart a sense of direction and the feeling of quenching thirst to let you know there is fresh water. It does however, understand you regardless of its Intelligence score because this score is something it adopts with the form but is truthfully more than these scores and telepathy lets people understand each other if they normally would not (which is why using telepathy normally doesn't require you to share a language). It won't solve a puzzle for you, no, but any basic task can be accomplished. Do not underestimate animal intelligence either - even in real life rats and mice can solve mazes, cats and dogs figure out how to open doors and even go to the toilet using the actual toilet and may even figure these things out without any training. Now look at what trained animals can do for movies and guide dogs and stage performances. Your familiar, being an actual immortal spirit with a telepathic connection to you, will be superior in this regard. That's qute a LOT it can do.
in my opinion; a familiar needs to "threaten" an enemy to be considered an ally; bear in mind a familiar in general cannot take the attack action but can take the help action which provides advantage on your first attack. alternatively a familiar can deliver a touch spell you cast which would certainly be threatening.
I would allow for sneak attacks on any round the familiar used an action or reaction to the detriment of the target of the sneak attack.
Sneak Attack does NOT require an ally. To gain sneak attack you need to successfully hit an enemy with a finesse weapon while they have a creature they consider hostile to them within 5 ft. Instead of your familiar it could be another enemy monster, if it was not a friend to the one you're targeting and therefore a possible enemy to it, even if it is already an enemy to you, then it counts for sneak attack. The familiar does NOT need to do anything to grant your sneak attack. The target has this non-friendly creature within 5 ft of it so you get your sneak attack. Furthermore an ally is not defined by battle terms. An ally is any creature that will assist you in some regard or is friendly to you. You created your familiar, it has form from your magic, it has a connection to your mind, it obeys and exists to serve you: how in the white ghostly fluff can you say this is not an ally?! Your response is beyond baffling.
Here is Sneak Attack info with the relevant part highlighted:
Sneak Attack
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.
The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the Sneak Attack column of the Rogue table.
If it helps anything, Jeremy Crawford who created the rules for 5th edition D&D says that a familiar is an ally and will trigger sneak attack. You can find this in the official rules-clarifying Sage Advice.
Does the familiar of find familiar count as an ally for the purposes of Sneak Attack? A familiar is an allied creature. Its proximity to a target can allow you to use the Sneak Attack feature or any other feature that requires the presence of an ally.
I have been wondering about this telepathic connection a wizard has with their companion. Would it be too much of a stretch to incorporate a telepathic backlash to the wizard? In case his familiar dies he takes a certain amount of psychic damage as well? Never played with a familiar. Unsure if this would be to harsh or just a nice addition to make sure Wizards will cheese less with the familiars.
By heavens, ick. No. Familiars are useful but are not overpowered and using a familiar in combat already runs the risk of losing it and having to do a ritual and 10 gold to get it back. At low levels this can be significant (albeit a minor inconvenience later on). Using the familiar in combat carries a big risk of losing it so giving your enemy the opportunity to damage you very easily when you use it means you won't bother using it (the very minor help it provides is not worth the damage, especially at low levels where even a 1d4 would be risky) or you have to default to owls with their flyby to get any combat use out of it.
Now add that dropping to 0 HP does not at all mean it dies. It cannot die. It was never actually alive. The body is just a shell made from magic (why do you think it vanishes?). Dropping to 0 HP means it just loses that magic and body but you still have your familiar and it is stll in service to you. It's just no longer in the material plane and no longer has a body until you give it magic for a new physical form. To a familiar it's just clothing. Embarassment aside would losing your clothing damage your mind? No. You just find it an annoying inconvenience until you get more clothes.
The familiar in combat grants 1 hit per round with advantage. Big whoop? Hold Person is only 1 more level higher and that can net you 1 to 10 turns with all attacks at advantage and all melee hits are auto-crits. A useful applcation of Grease spell can net you all melee attacks at advantage for a whole round and possibly more. I don't see you nerfing these spells. Why nerf find familiar?
If as a DM you find find familiar (that was weird to type) too powerful or cheesy, quit now. There are tons, bucket loads, of spells dozens of times more powerful, much more cheesy and can be combined with situations and other spells, items and effects for insane shenanigans and your characters can start collecting these as early as level 3. If the pathetically measly in comparison Find Familiar is too much for you, you've got a whole lot of headaches coming your way.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I stand by my rationalization for ally/hostile creature. it seems a stretch that being beside a normal frog is fine but being beside a find familiar frog, regardless of its action or whether it is noticed, qualifies for a sneak attack.
but that's why there's a DM; to make calls based on situation.
a normal ferret will run away and hide, a familiar ferret is going to run up your kilt, bite you on the voonerables and then get a shocking grasp spell cast through where it's mouth is, the occasional person may find this possibility distracting
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
no doubt in my mind that mr ferret the familiar is an ally. but in your example actions defined that. not the presence of a ferret. 5e isn't really meant for ambiguity, so... sage advice clarified it with a general ruling: familiars are allies for any and all "proximity" features.
regular ferrets and such would need to be considered separately. but it is conceivable that either the allied or non-allied case could be true
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
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Asking the general rules most of y'all have in your games!
Telepathic conversations. The animals have intelligence right? I'm equating most with human toddlers. They can understand basic tasks but complex tasks a intelligence check would due with the animals mod?
Giving sneak attack and advantage? They are an ally but do they count for sneak attack if in 5ft range?
Thoughts or maybe more info?
Thanks
M
Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
they are NOT animals. they are otherworldly entities that have taken the form of animals.
in my opinion; a familiar needs to "threaten" an enemy to be considered an ally; bear in mind a familiar in general cannot take the attack action but can take the help action which provides advantage on your first attack. alternatively a familiar can deliver a touch spell you cast which would certainly be threatening.
I would allow for sneak attacks on any round the familiar used an action or reaction to the detriment of the target of the sneak attack.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Gigaflop is correct when he says that familiars are fiends, fae or celestials in the form of animals.
Familiars can also use the Help action though to give an ally (i.e. you) advantage on your attack if they are 5ft within range of the target. This should trigger Sneak Attack if the advantage is given to a Rogue. Of course, you may need to describe how the familiar helps with the attack depending on the DM.
Basically, y'all consider them a pocket PC within a PC? Isn't that a little OP? I thought my interpretation was balanced at least. I get a supernatural animal but how does that affect their stats? ALL The familiar stats I've seen are for the animal itself NOT a new form of wiggy-familiar spirit version! Celestial, fiend, or fey it's still in an animal form people with that animals stats?!
Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
Physically, they are still in animal form, yes.
They are, however, quite intelligent as their minds are not limited to their animal forms.
They tend to not be OP as they have the animal's hit points, and having them slain/discorporated requires downtime and material components for the spell to reconstitute them - so its not something you could do in the middle of combat.
While technically, you can use them for the help action, or delivering touch spells in combat, or granting sneak attack, this tends to put them in harms way, and given that they don't have much in the way of hit points, they can suddenly go poof in the middle of combat.
Because they are somewhat of an extension of a Wizard's abilities, but they're fragile, familiars require a little bit of forethought and creativity to use well.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
it is not uncommon to roleplay a significant bond between familiars and those that summon them. I agree that putting them in harms way is unwise and possibly out of character. one should be allowed to occasionally employ a tactical endeavour here and there but generally familiars are for scouting, spying, delivering messages and adding flavour to the spellcasters every day schtick. not really a combatant.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
I have been wondering about this telepathic connection a wizard has with their companion. Would it be too much of a stretch to incorporate a telepathic backlash to the wizard? In case his familiar dies he takes a certain amount of psychic damage as well? Never played with a familiar. Unsure if this would be to harsh or just a nice addition to make sure Wizards will cheese less with the familiars.
It's an interesting idea - I don't know if I'd incorporate psychic damage , but perhaps disorient the player in some way - disadvantage on mental ability rolls for one turn, perhaps?
I suspect that your idea is to make the loss of a familiar have some significant cost for the player. If you're enforcing material components in spell casting, this is covered at lower levels as the materials can be significant, although not for characters with a few adventures under their belt.
Another option would be to incorporate some sort of "loyalty mechanic" - if the person I'm working for constantly abuses me and gets me killed, I quit! Their familiar leaves, and while they could summon another, I may, at that point start having the wizard make a Charisma check every time they try and use the spell, or get ignored. Keep abusing familiars and the word spreads so that no such creature is willing to work for that Wizard. I would also give the character means for strengthening loyalty and/or making amends for past incidents.
It might not need be a mechanic but just role-played off of gut-feel - but I think a relationship between the Wizard and any sentient being is something that can be strengthened, damaged, or broken, by the Wizards actions and attitudes.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
The telepathy allows the familiar to communicate basic ideas and concepts to you. It cannot speak and would not have a mental voice but can send you the image of some creature it has seen with the feeling of fear or danger in order to let you know an enemy approaches or impart a sense of direction and the feeling of quenching thirst to let you know there is fresh water. It does however, understand you regardless of its Intelligence score because this score is something it adopts with the form but is truthfully more than these scores and telepathy lets people understand each other if they normally would not (which is why using telepathy normally doesn't require you to share a language). It won't solve a puzzle for you, no, but any basic task can be accomplished. Do not underestimate animal intelligence either - even in real life rats and mice can solve mazes, cats and dogs figure out how to open doors and even go to the toilet using the actual toilet and may even figure these things out without any training. Now look at what trained animals can do for movies and guide dogs and stage performances. Your familiar, being an actual immortal spirit with a telepathic connection to you, will be superior in this regard. That's qute a LOT it can do.
&
Sneak Attack does NOT require an ally. To gain sneak attack you need to successfully hit an enemy with a finesse weapon while they have a creature they consider hostile to them within 5 ft. Instead of your familiar it could be another enemy monster, if it was not a friend to the one you're targeting and therefore a possible enemy to it, even if it is already an enemy to you, then it counts for sneak attack. The familiar does NOT need to do anything to grant your sneak attack. The target has this non-friendly creature within 5 ft of it so you get your sneak attack. Furthermore an ally is not defined by battle terms. An ally is any creature that will assist you in some regard or is friendly to you. You created your familiar, it has form from your magic, it has a connection to your mind, it obeys and exists to serve you: how in the white ghostly fluff can you say this is not an ally?! Your response is beyond baffling.
Here is Sneak Attack info with the relevant part highlighted:
If it helps anything, Jeremy Crawford who created the rules for 5th edition D&D says that a familiar is an ally and will trigger sneak attack. You can find this in the official rules-clarifying Sage Advice.
By heavens, ick. No. Familiars are useful but are not overpowered and using a familiar in combat already runs the risk of losing it and having to do a ritual and 10 gold to get it back. At low levels this can be significant (albeit a minor inconvenience later on). Using the familiar in combat carries a big risk of losing it so giving your enemy the opportunity to damage you very easily when you use it means you won't bother using it (the very minor help it provides is not worth the damage, especially at low levels where even a 1d4 would be risky) or you have to default to owls with their flyby to get any combat use out of it.
Now add that dropping to 0 HP does not at all mean it dies. It cannot die. It was never actually alive. The body is just a shell made from magic (why do you think it vanishes?). Dropping to 0 HP means it just loses that magic and body but you still have your familiar and it is stll in service to you. It's just no longer in the material plane and no longer has a body until you give it magic for a new physical form. To a familiar it's just clothing. Embarassment aside would losing your clothing damage your mind? No. You just find it an annoying inconvenience until you get more clothes.
The familiar in combat grants 1 hit per round with advantage. Big whoop? Hold Person is only 1 more level higher and that can net you 1 to 10 turns with all attacks at advantage and all melee hits are auto-crits. A useful applcation of Grease spell can net you all melee attacks at advantage for a whole round and possibly more. I don't see you nerfing these spells. Why nerf find familiar?
If as a DM you find find familiar (that was weird to type) too powerful or cheesy, quit now. There are tons, bucket loads, of spells dozens of times more powerful, much more cheesy and can be combined with situations and other spells, items and effects for insane shenanigans and your characters can start collecting these as early as level 3. If the pathetically measly in comparison Find Familiar is too much for you, you've got a whole lot of headaches coming your way.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Wow thanks for the feedback y'all!! SUPER AWESOME!!
Sometimes a Nat 1 tells a better story than a Nat 20 ever could.
I concede to sage advice,
I had completely forgotten to check it.
I stand by my rationalization for ally/hostile creature. it seems a stretch that being beside a normal frog is fine but being beside a find familiar frog, regardless of its action or whether it is noticed, qualifies for a sneak attack.
but that's why there's a DM; to make calls based on situation.
thanks for finding the correct ruling
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
a normal ferret will run away and hide, a familiar ferret is going to run up your kilt, bite you on the voonerables and then get a shocking grasp spell cast through where it's mouth is, the occasional person may find this possibility distracting
All plans turn into, run into the room waving a sword and see what happens from there, once the first die gets rolled
no doubt in my mind that mr ferret the familiar is an ally. but in your example actions defined that. not the presence of a ferret. 5e isn't really meant for ambiguity, so... sage advice clarified it with a general ruling: familiars are allies for any and all "proximity" features.
regular ferrets and such would need to be considered separately. but it is conceivable that either the allied or non-allied case could be true
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.