my dm gives one mechanical advantage to pouches. he lets us carry enough of costless components that are consumed that we never have to worry about it till after we have had some downtime where it is assumed we restock so we can use pells that consume worthless things with a pouch but not a focus
That’s just RAW for the component pouch. All your DM is doing is nerfing the focus with a houserule sine a focus should never need those costless components at all.
A while back I was in a group that faced a creature that can only be destroyed by holy water. Everyone took an arcane focus, but I took the component pouch. I was a divine soul sorcerer who had bless which to cast that requires a sprinkle of holy water.
Using a component pouch, you retain some connection to your spells’ material components. Within the fantasy of the game, you’re still using those components to cast. The component pouch is just a way to mechanically handwave the acquisition and tracking of those components. However, the component pouch costs 25gp and weighs 2lbs compared to the other pouch in the adventuring equipment table which costs 5sp and weighs 1lb. Basically, the intent is, if you have a component pouch the designers intended to have you never have to think about components that do not have a cost. The DM can of course rule differently and make you purchase each ingredient to painstakingly fill the pouch but that kind of verisimilitude isn't fun at many tables.
A while back I was in a group that faced a creature that can only be destroyed by holy water. Everyone took an arcane focus, but I took the component pouch. I was a divine soul sorcerer who had bless which to cast that requires a sprinkle of holy water.
Using a component pouch, you retain some connection to your spells’ material components. Within the fantasy of the game, you’re still using those components to cast. The component pouch is just a way to mechanically handwave the acquisition and tracking of those components. However, the component pouch costs 25gp and weighs 2lbs compared to the other pouch in the adventuring equipment table which costs 5sp and weighs 1lb. Basically, the intent is, if you have a component pouch the designers intended to have you never have to think about components that do not have a cost. The DM can of course rule differently and make you purchase each ingredient to painstakingly fill the pouch but that kind of verisimilitude isn't fun at many tables.
Holy water does have a cost and needs to be purchased separately.
A while back I was in a group that faced a creature that can only be destroyed by holy water. Everyone took an arcane focus, but I took the component pouch. I was a divine soul sorcerer who had bless which to cast that requires a sprinkle of holy water.
Using a component pouch, you retain some connection to your spells’ material components. Within the fantasy of the game, you’re still using those components to cast. The component pouch is just a way to mechanically handwave the acquisition and tracking of those components. However, the component pouch costs 25gp and weighs 2lbs compared to the other pouch in the adventuring equipment table which costs 5sp and weighs 1lb. Basically, the intent is, if you have a component pouch the designers intended to have you never have to think about components that do not have a cost. The DM can of course rule differently and make you purchase each ingredient to painstakingly fill the pouch but that kind of verisimilitude isn't fun at many tables.
Holy water does have a cost and needs to be purchased separately.
A 'sprinkle' of holy water does not have a cost, because it's unidentifiable how much is a sprinkle (this is also an issue with Protection from Evil and Good: it specifically consumes its material component, but does not say how much it uses, particularly if you choose to use iron and silver instead of holy water).
I rule that the initial flask of holy water needs to be purchased but then lasts indefinitely as it is only used a “sprinkle” at a time.
An understandable rule, but it's also entirely reasonable to say that your component pouch has a small vial with an ounce of holy water (the actual flask item is a more like a pint).
I rule that the initial flask of holy water needs to be purchased but then lasts indefinitely as it is only used a “sprinkle” at a time.
An understandable rule, but it's also entirely reasonable to say that your component pouch has a small vial with an ounce of holy water (the actual flask item is a more like a pint).
I suppose. but at 25 gp/pnt, that would shake out to 1gp,5sp,6.3cp/oz. If a cp=$1 like most people guesstimate, that’s still over $150 worth of Holy Water you’re giving out for free. And if a player asks how much damage an oz of holy water does to a fiend, what do you tell them? With my system they just follow the rules for a pnt and call it a day. It’s just simpler IMO.
I suppose. but at 25 gp/pnt, that would shake out to 1gp,5sp,6.3cp/oz. If a cp=$1 like most people guesstimate, that’s still over $150 worth of Holy Water you’re giving out for free. And if a player asks how much damage an oz of holy water does to a fiend, what do you tell them?
It's not free, it's part of a 25gp item. And the answer is 'zero'.
I suppose. but at 25 gp/pnt, that would shake out to 1gp,5sp,6.3cp/oz. If a cp=$1 like most people guesstimate, that’s still over $150 worth of Holy Water you’re giving out for free. And if a player asks how much damage an oz of holy water does to a fiend, what do you tell them?
It's not free, it's part of a 25gp item. And the answer is 'zero'.
For most PCs that item is collected “for free” at the beginning of the campaign when they create their characters.
The DM at the time did not specify that it need to use a pint of holy water., but ya the DM did rule in it would cost sense holy water dose have a cost. I would rule that you would have a pint at first for free in the component pouch, but if used up in need to defeat a creature (not by a sprinkle), then you can't use a spell that requires you to use holy water.
Of course a cleric in the party can bless water, but it still cost 25gp (in my opinion it should cost 1/2 that price /aka 15gp/ due to it being a consumable as per the rule of crafting consumables).
My old DM used to say that I had to pay the monetary value of whatever components needed for the spell, if it was significant, or have the component and not have to spend the money. That way you don’t have to spend time looking for the components in the cities, but if you happened to find them in your adventures you could use them.
My old DM used to say that I had to pay the monetary value of whatever components needed for the spell, if it was significant, or have the component and not have to spend the money. That way you don’t have to spend time looking for the components in the cities, but if you happened to find them in your adventures you could use them.
Last game I played in the DM simply said that if a GP amount was associated with the spell, I had to have that amount of gold on person, and when I cast the spell I lost that gold from my sheet. The concept being that I had purchased all of these things ahead of time, in fact he required that I "flashback" to purchasing the items, "I am so glad I bought that extra bat guano and black pearl before we left town".
It was ok, I enjoyed the old method of tracking items, BUT it sped the game up a lot since there were 3 spell casters and a fighter in the party, and we all used component pouches.
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That’s just RAW for the component pouch. All your DM is doing is nerfing the focus with a houserule sine a focus should never need those costless components at all.
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A while back I was in a group that faced a creature that can only be destroyed by holy water. Everyone took an arcane focus, but I took the component pouch. I was a divine soul sorcerer who had bless which to cast that requires a sprinkle of holy water.
Using a component pouch, you retain some connection to your spells’ material components. Within the fantasy of the game, you’re still using those components to cast. The component pouch is just a way to mechanically handwave the acquisition and tracking of those components. However, the component pouch costs 25gp and weighs 2lbs compared to the other pouch in the adventuring equipment table which costs 5sp and weighs 1lb. Basically, the intent is, if you have a component pouch the designers intended to have you never have to think about components that do not have a cost. The DM can of course rule differently and make you purchase each ingredient to painstakingly fill the pouch but that kind of verisimilitude isn't fun at many tables.
Holy water does have a cost and needs to be purchased separately.
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A 'sprinkle' of holy water does not have a cost, because it's unidentifiable how much is a sprinkle (this is also an issue with Protection from Evil and Good: it specifically consumes its material component, but does not say how much it uses, particularly if you choose to use iron and silver instead of holy water).
I rule that the initial flask of holy water needs to be purchased but then lasts indefinitely as it is only used a “sprinkle” at a time.
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An understandable rule, but it's also entirely reasonable to say that your component pouch has a small vial with an ounce of holy water (the actual flask item is a more like a pint).
I suppose. but at 25 gp/pnt, that would shake out to 1gp,5sp,6.3cp/oz. If a cp=$1 like most people guesstimate, that’s still over $150 worth of Holy Water you’re giving out for free. And if a player asks how much damage an oz of holy water does to a fiend, what do you tell them? With my system they just follow the rules for a pnt and call it a day. It’s just simpler IMO.
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It's not free, it's part of a 25gp item. And the answer is 'zero'.
For most PCs that item is collected “for free” at the beginning of the campaign when they create their characters.
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The DM at the time did not specify that it need to use a pint of holy water., but ya the DM did rule in it would cost sense holy water dose have a cost. I would rule that you would have a pint at first for free in the component pouch, but if used up in need to defeat a creature (not by a sprinkle), then you can't use a spell that requires you to use holy water.
Of course a cleric in the party can bless water, but it still cost 25gp (in my opinion it should cost 1/2 that price /aka 15gp/ due to it being a consumable as per the rule of crafting consumables).
My old DM used to say that I had to pay the monetary value of whatever components needed for the spell, if it was significant, or have the component and not have to spend the money.
That way you don’t have to spend time looking for the components in the cities, but if you happened to find them in your adventures you could use them.
Arcane focus for most spells is fine if they require high end components is what component pouch is for.
Last game I played in the DM simply said that if a GP amount was associated with the spell, I had to have that amount of gold on person, and when I cast the spell I lost that gold from my sheet. The concept being that I had purchased all of these things ahead of time, in fact he required that I "flashback" to purchasing the items, "I am so glad I bought that extra bat guano and black pearl before we left town".
It was ok, I enjoyed the old method of tracking items, BUT it sped the game up a lot since there were 3 spell casters and a fighter in the party, and we all used component pouches.