Reading the rules for teleportation circle... it says to draw it on the ground... but could I make a teleportation circle on a ceiling? If not, could I make one on a 10x10 plate of some sort, and then attach it to the ceiling when it's a permanent circle? Or would I have to use reverse gravity each time... to make the ceiling the ground... to draw it on the ceiling? In making my base, i'm trying to make difficulties around teleporting in without being a friendly. Teleportation itself is the first trap, unless of course one uses spider climb before hand.
Question #2 would be, can a teleportation circle move? In storm king's thunder, there is a opportunity to capture a cloud giant castle. Could a party place a permanent teleportation circle in there, although the castle is moving?
Practically the answer is no as everytime you would fall head first into the ground once you arrive and everyone traveling with you. So the entire party would have to prevent that somehow every time. Which odds are you guys aren't going to have that many spells left to make sure everyone can come out safe.
Also any wizard capable of teleporting in is not really going to be slowed down too much in game.Not to mention the spellcaster would have had to seen the glyphs before or know them precisely, so odds are they could have just walked in the front door as they would have had to have been in your keep before. They would also know about your trap and can plan accordingly.
Basically there is no reason to go through that much trouble when you could just make sure to keep the door locked and never show the circle to anyone.
I believe the glyphs guide you to the location of the glyphs not a specific area. I'd rule that it would be okay to make some in the moving fortress, provided the circle itself is not broken at any point.
For the first question, I would say no. But it is up to the DM in this case, I dont see that a circle on a ceiling would break the mechanics of the spell.
I would be all for it someone really wanted to. But there is no reason to do that as someone would have to learn the symbols and to do so they probably would need to see the circle or somehow get someone who has to recall the symbols precisely. If you can do that you are probably going to also learn it is on the ceiling.
And with the need to always cast more spells to prevent your own party from hitting the ground and that you would need a really tall ceiling to matter (1d6 per 10 feet).
So I think, while I would allow it, there is just zero reason to do it in game.
(I know I'm repeating myself, but I think I explained it better this time.)
If it helps, in the third installment of the CORE adventure path (CORE 1-3: A Hole in the World), the players can have an NPC Wizard bind a planar portal to what basically amounts to a bedsheet so that they can carry the portal out of town and drop it off at the front gates before an army of Modrons spill out of it and slaughter the town.
So if a portal between realms can be somewhat stabilized on a flimsy bedsheet held taunt by four people as they run through a city.....I don't see why you can't put a teleportation circle on a board and then attach it to whatever surface you want.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
The point of the circle on the ceiling is extra security. It doesn't matter how difficult it makes it for the party, we will find a way around that. It is a security measure, only the first of many.
The point of the circle on the ceiling is extra security. It doesn't matter how difficult it makes it for the party, we will find a way around that. It is a security measure, only the first of many.
What I'm saying is that it is a pointless security measure. You can't just teleport to any circle you want, you have to be able to draw the symbols that corrospond to it. This means that if someone can teleport to your circle, then they already know all of your security measures.
In other words don't waste your time putting it on the ceiling.
Question #1: Given what Jeremy Crawford said: http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/07/22/teleportation-circle-on-floating-surface/ I don't think "ground has to mean floor". That to me is an insanely pedantic way of looking at it. Plus the floor of a ship isn't "the ground", the deck of a air ship is really not "the ground", and we all know that's not how the interpretation was supposed to mean.
Question #2: is answered already.
Keep in mind the cost to make this spell permanent is INSANE. 50 g per day for a year 18,250 gp!
That said a "cheaper" (spell wise) way could be to have the Wizard's "lair" at the bottom of a very deep chasm, draw the teleportation circle to the underside of a cliff (still the "ground") with a 100+ foot drop. Anyone who doesn't have a "Slowfall" prepped won't survive the landing. Of course now the Wizard needs a way to *leave* that isn't that.
If you actually read the spell from the point of view of someone just picking up the Player's Handbook, there really isn't any indication that the circle does not have to be on physical ground. I would assume everyone here who has commented that it can be on anything other than physical ground has done so because of past editions/games/adventures that all allow it to be elsewhere, but I'm not sure there is any reason to believe that coming from a position of just picking up the player's handbook.
Also Crawford didn't really make a ruling. He just said he allowed it to be on other things, which gives the indication that the book itself doesn't necessarily lean that way (or at least not in a definite way where he could make an actual ruling).
If you actually read the spell from the point of view of someone just picking up the Player's Handbook, there really isn't any indication that the circle does not have to be on physical ground. I would assume everyone here who has commented that it can be on anything other than physical ground has done so because of past editions/games/adventures that all allow it to be elsewhere, but I'm not sure there is any reason to believe that coming from a position of just picking up the player's handbook.
I mean, that's technically true, but that doesn't really help with the question at hand. The question was "The book says 'X', but what does that mean? And is its meaning broad enough to fit what I am wanting to do?"
The answer to the question was a resounding "yes," because there is evidence in how X was interpreted in previous editions as well as published games and adventures, giving context to the rules as written. How the common player would interpret the rules "as written in the PHB" isn't as relevant as "how those rules have been applied and the intentions of the creators." Crazedchicken saw the rules as written and asked if there was wiggle room (which there is).
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
I only point that out because if someone was reading and decided to do that, they could draw a circle somewhere for a year in game time and spend the money only to find out that it doesn't work that way because the DM is reading the rules as written. Yes a Dm who wouldn't just tell you that wouldn't work is a jerk, but its always good to know when your DM might side a different way and you should ask him how he would rule it. Granted the odds are the DM will allow it, however I can see a DM not allowing it to be built on the ceiling.
Reading the rules for teleportation circle... it says to draw it on the ground... but could I make a teleportation circle on a ceiling? If not, could I make one on a 10x10 plate of some sort, and then attach it to the ceiling when it's a permanent circle? Or would I have to use reverse gravity each time... to make the ceiling the ground... to draw it on the ceiling? In making my base, i'm trying to make difficulties around teleporting in without being a friendly. Teleportation itself is the first trap, unless of course one uses spider climb before hand.
Question #2 would be, can a teleportation circle move? In storm king's thunder, there is a opportunity to capture a cloud giant castle. Could a party place a permanent teleportation circle in there, although the castle is moving?
According to the rules no.
Practically the answer is no as everytime you would fall head first into the ground once you arrive and everyone traveling with you. So the entire party would have to prevent that somehow every time. Which odds are you guys aren't going to have that many spells left to make sure everyone can come out safe.
Also any wizard capable of teleporting in is not really going to be slowed down too much in game.Not to mention the spellcaster would have had to seen the glyphs before or know them precisely, so odds are they could have just walked in the front door as they would have had to have been in your keep before. They would also know about your trap and can plan accordingly.
Basically there is no reason to go through that much trouble when you could just make sure to keep the door locked and never show the circle to anyone.
I believe the glyphs guide you to the location of the glyphs not a specific area. I'd rule that it would be okay to make some in the moving fortress, provided the circle itself is not broken at any point.
For the first question, I would say no. But it is up to the DM in this case, I dont see that a circle on a ceiling would break the mechanics of the spell.
For the seconf question, yes you can absolutely:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/07/22/teleportation-circle-on-floating-surface/
I would be all for it someone really wanted to. But there is no reason to do that as someone would have to learn the symbols and to do so they probably would need to see the circle or somehow get someone who has to recall the symbols precisely. If you can do that you are probably going to also learn it is on the ceiling.
And with the need to always cast more spells to prevent your own party from hitting the ground and that you would need a really tall ceiling to matter (1d6 per 10 feet).
So I think, while I would allow it, there is just zero reason to do it in game.
(I know I'm repeating myself, but I think I explained it better this time.)
What if the moving structure turns upside down? If that works then making the circle on the ceiling to begin with should probably work also.
Of course I'd have to say you cant put a teleportation circle on a rug because you have to actually draw the circle.
If it helps, in the third installment of the CORE adventure path (CORE 1-3: A Hole in the World), the players can have an NPC Wizard bind a planar portal to what basically amounts to a bedsheet so that they can carry the portal out of town and drop it off at the front gates before an army of Modrons spill out of it and slaughter the town.
So if a portal between realms can be somewhat stabilized on a flimsy bedsheet held taunt by four people as they run through a city.....I don't see why you can't put a teleportation circle on a board and then attach it to whatever surface you want.
Very helpful. Thanks all.
The point of the circle on the ceiling is extra security. It doesn't matter how difficult it makes it for the party, we will find a way around that. It is a security measure, only the first of many.
Question #1: Given what Jeremy Crawford said: http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/07/22/teleportation-circle-on-floating-surface/ I don't think "ground has to mean floor". That to me is an insanely pedantic way of looking at it. Plus the floor of a ship isn't "the ground", the deck of a air ship is really not "the ground", and we all know that's not how the interpretation was supposed to mean.
Question #2: is answered already.
Keep in mind the cost to make this spell permanent is INSANE. 50 g per day for a year 18,250 gp!
That said a "cheaper" (spell wise) way could be to have the Wizard's "lair" at the bottom of a very deep chasm, draw the teleportation circle to the underside of a cliff (still the "ground") with a 100+ foot drop. Anyone who doesn't have a "Slowfall" prepped won't survive the landing. Of course now the Wizard needs a way to *leave* that isn't that.
If you actually read the spell from the point of view of someone just picking up the Player's Handbook, there really isn't any indication that the circle does not have to be on physical ground. I would assume everyone here who has commented that it can be on anything other than physical ground has done so because of past editions/games/adventures that all allow it to be elsewhere, but I'm not sure there is any reason to believe that coming from a position of just picking up the player's handbook.
Also Crawford didn't really make a ruling. He just said he allowed it to be on other things, which gives the indication that the book itself doesn't necessarily lean that way (or at least not in a definite way where he could make an actual ruling).
I only point that out because if someone was reading and decided to do that, they could draw a circle somewhere for a year in game time and spend the money only to find out that it doesn't work that way because the DM is reading the rules as written. Yes a Dm who wouldn't just tell you that wouldn't work is a jerk, but its always good to know when your DM might side a different way and you should ask him how he would rule it. Granted the odds are the DM will allow it, however I can see a DM not allowing it to be built on the ceiling.
Well, that's a responce! Thank you mongoose, and insight in figuring out what I was asking.
The spell also says with in 5 foot of the circle so only a 5 foot drop which I believe is no damage.