Last gaming session with my players showed me a side of a couple of my players that totally turned me off to them even after almost two years of playing. That particular side made me decide that next session would be the last time I DM for them.
On that sour note. They are at the final boss fight with what would be a Witch (actually using a blood witch). I have four players that are 8th level and I think because of the setting of this village in the forest, the fact that a town is a part of a ruse to lure adventurers in the direct path of the final boss otherwise the town will face consequences. I was thinking of keeping the blood witch facade but making her ultimately an Adult Green Dragon.
I guess really what I'm asking is what would be a good way to bring things to a proper end without feeling like I'm purposefully tpking the group.... Although I'm tempted to just have a sphere of annihilation rip through the room....
I've determined that the players have a beat the game mentality even if it goes against what their characters would be doing. I'm ok with a little leeway but it seems like things are being ignored. I've tried to steer things back on track but they keep getting derailed.
While I have no knowledge of what they did to get on your bad side, killing the party for the sake of revenge would definitely be a no go. Character death should always be a real possibility, but it should never be planned for, there should always be a way for the party to succeed, and that knowledge should have been granted to the party even if in an obscure way.
They might have rubbed you the wrong way, but my mom always taught me to be the kinder person and not stoop to a level I'd be ashamed of.
It sounds like you're taking things personally, which is understandable, but it's not the best way to resolve a game. No matter how bad the players have been, no matter how upset they made you, it should still be resolved with grace and respect from you.
The tone of your message is all I can go off of since no details were given so I guess I can only give very basic advice. If you are that upset, and that turned off from the group, walk away. Call up your players and get together with them as a group, or individually, and discuss with them your resignation. Explain your reasons, in full, and don't accuse the players, simply explain your position. Once you have done this, thank them for the games and walk away.
However, I would caution walking away so easily. Every player, every player, has off days, days where they act out of character, and days where they do things that just rub us the wrong way. If we were to quit the game so easily then very few games would get past level 3. Personally, I'd address the players that upset you and talk to them about your problem and see what's really going on. You've played with them for two years and they just now did something that was irksome, give them a chance to repent. I would be willing to bet that their actions can be adjusted, they can continue to play in a way that everyone is happy, and that this situation was probably an outlier.
In summary: Talk to your players before you walk away and air the bad feelings. Be open, respectful, and honest. If, after that, there is no way to resolve the issue then you walk away after shaking hands and saying thank you for the games.
I appreciate the responses, its helped calm me from stewing on. This has been an ongoing thing for some time and just kinda came to a head at the last session.
Honestly I think I'm just burnt out and its time to take a break.
I like the idea of a coven.
I think I've given the players a bit too much leeway and will have to clarify my expectations and see where they differ from the players.
You're not really giving us the particulars of what their "crime" is, here - so it's hard to comment.
If their play style is radically different from what you'd like - then maybe consider having a retroactive Sessions Zero. Spell out your expectations, your style, your idiosyncrasies, and your expectations of how play should go. Let them do the same. See if there can be a negotiated middle ground.Here's a list of things I like to cover off in a session zero ( ideally ). If you can all agree on a negotiated middle ground on all those points, you'll likely have a pretty tightly knit group.
If on the other hand, they're not following your planned story arc, taking actions that you didn't expect, and causing consequencesthat you don't like ( and I take this as a possibility from you saying "I think I've given the players a bit too much leeway" ) - then I hate to say it, but that's what Players do. You control the initial set up; you design the NPCs; you design the settings; and you adjudicate the results of their actions & plausible reactions of NPC individuals and organizations based on their character, resources, knowledge, and goals. The Players are the ones that get to dictate how the story unfolds, via their actions and choices. You might find their actions "stupid", short sighted, or just not what you would have done - but a) It's their choice and b) you have perfect knowledge of the situation; it likely looks really different from the Player side.
I find that games go much smoother if a) we've all agreed on the style and flow of things ahead of time ( Session Zero ), and b) we all relax and allow each other control of our own facet of the game.
I don't know which - if any - of this applies to you, but I find these are the main causes of Player/DM friction.
Best of luck with your game. Feel free to get more specific if you like :)
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I allow for the characters to make their own choices on what to do. They can choose to follow the breadcrumbs I throw out or go a different direction entirely and I'll use that direction as a part of a story/adventure I'm planning for them. Or just wing it which is a vast majority of the time. None of that is an issue.
The issues is the arguing over semantics and mechanics of the game and this has been going on for at least the past year. Some of them started DMing other games around that time. I'm pretty flexible with the rules because I want to focus on fun but arguing with me over the rules gets old... I guess I'm just venting.
Out of this I did come up with an interesting encounter idea (silver lining). I'm going to modify the single witch into a five witch coven each assigned a different element to represent the tip of a 5 point pentagram and able to command only spells in that sphere. Max 5th levels spells. Makes the encounter very deadly but should actually be pretty damn fun to run from my perspective and also the players.
That's why the first entry in my Session Zero checklist/discussion reads, in part:
Good game flow is important. everyone has the right to express opinions and wants for the game, everyone can bring up rules/interpretations, BUT the GM will make a "snap decision" in the moment, and that's a final ruling for right then; "snap decisions" can be discussed outside game session time - it's possible that the ruling may change for future occasions .
I think you need to have a sit down discussion with your Players, and talk about this as adults - but I think the above text is a good compromise position.
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
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Last gaming session with my players showed me a side of a couple of my players that totally turned me off to them even after almost two years of playing. That particular side made me decide that next session would be the last time I DM for them.
On that sour note. They are at the final boss fight with what would be a Witch (actually using a blood witch). I have four players that are 8th level and I think because of the setting of this village in the forest, the fact that a town is a part of a ruse to lure adventurers in the direct path of the final boss otherwise the town will face consequences. I was thinking of keeping the blood witch facade but making her ultimately an Adult Green Dragon.
I guess really what I'm asking is what would be a good way to bring things to a proper end without feeling like I'm purposefully tpking the group.... Although I'm tempted to just have a sphere of annihilation rip through the room....
I've determined that the players have a beat the game mentality even if it goes against what their characters would be doing. I'm ok with a little leeway but it seems like things are being ignored. I've tried to steer things back on track but they keep getting derailed.
Have two more witches appear, you now have a coven!
But seriously what did they do?
From Within Chaos Comes Order!
While I have no knowledge of what they did to get on your bad side, killing the party for the sake of revenge would definitely be a no go. Character death should always be a real possibility, but it should never be planned for, there should always be a way for the party to succeed, and that knowledge should have been granted to the party even if in an obscure way.
They might have rubbed you the wrong way, but my mom always taught me to be the kinder person and not stoop to a level I'd be ashamed of.
#my2Cents
It sounds like you're taking things personally, which is understandable, but it's not the best way to resolve a game. No matter how bad the players have been, no matter how upset they made you, it should still be resolved with grace and respect from you.
The tone of your message is all I can go off of since no details were given so I guess I can only give very basic advice. If you are that upset, and that turned off from the group, walk away. Call up your players and get together with them as a group, or individually, and discuss with them your resignation. Explain your reasons, in full, and don't accuse the players, simply explain your position. Once you have done this, thank them for the games and walk away.
However, I would caution walking away so easily. Every player, every player, has off days, days where they act out of character, and days where they do things that just rub us the wrong way. If we were to quit the game so easily then very few games would get past level 3. Personally, I'd address the players that upset you and talk to them about your problem and see what's really going on. You've played with them for two years and they just now did something that was irksome, give them a chance to repent. I would be willing to bet that their actions can be adjusted, they can continue to play in a way that everyone is happy, and that this situation was probably an outlier.
In summary: Talk to your players before you walk away and air the bad feelings. Be open, respectful, and honest. If, after that, there is no way to resolve the issue then you walk away after shaking hands and saying thank you for the games.
I appreciate the responses, its helped calm me from stewing on. This has been an ongoing thing for some time and just kinda came to a head at the last session.
Honestly I think I'm just burnt out and its time to take a break.
I like the idea of a coven.
I think I've given the players a bit too much leeway and will have to clarify my expectations and see where they differ from the players.
I'll try my hardest not to kill ALL of them....
Nah **** it, smite them all lol
From Within Chaos Comes Order!
You're not really giving us the particulars of what their "crime" is, here - so it's hard to comment.
If their play style is radically different from what you'd like - then maybe consider having a retroactive Sessions Zero. Spell out your expectations, your style, your idiosyncrasies, and your expectations of how play should go. Let them do the same. See if there can be a negotiated middle ground. Here's a list of things I like to cover off in a session zero ( ideally ). If you can all agree on a negotiated middle ground on all those points, you'll likely have a pretty tightly knit group.
If on the other hand, they're not following your planned story arc, taking actions that you didn't expect, and causing consequencesthat you don't like ( and I take this as a possibility from you saying "I think I've given the players a bit too much leeway" ) - then I hate to say it, but that's what Players do. You control the initial set up; you design the NPCs; you design the settings; and you adjudicate the results of their actions & plausible reactions of NPC individuals and organizations based on their character, resources, knowledge, and goals. The Players are the ones that get to dictate how the story unfolds, via their actions and choices. You might find their actions "stupid", short sighted, or just not what you would have done - but a) It's their choice and b) you have perfect knowledge of the situation; it likely looks really different from the Player side.
I find that games go much smoother if a) we've all agreed on the style and flow of things ahead of time ( Session Zero ), and b) we all relax and allow each other control of our own facet of the game.
I don't know which - if any - of this applies to you, but I find these are the main causes of Player/DM friction.
Best of luck with your game. Feel free to get more specific if you like :)
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I allow for the characters to make their own choices on what to do. They can choose to follow the breadcrumbs I throw out or go a different direction entirely and I'll use that direction as a part of a story/adventure I'm planning for them. Or just wing it which is a vast majority of the time. None of that is an issue.
The issues is the arguing over semantics and mechanics of the game and this has been going on for at least the past year. Some of them started DMing other games around that time. I'm pretty flexible with the rules because I want to focus on fun but arguing with me over the rules gets old... I guess I'm just venting.
Out of this I did come up with an interesting encounter idea (silver lining). I'm going to modify the single witch into a five witch coven each assigned a different element to represent the tip of a 5 point pentagram and able to command only spells in that sphere. Max 5th levels spells. Makes the encounter very deadly but should actually be pretty damn fun to run from my perspective and also the players.
OK - that would be really annoying.
That's why the first entry in my Session Zero checklist/discussion reads, in part:
Good game flow is important. everyone has the right to express opinions and wants for the game, everyone can bring up rules/interpretations, BUT the GM will make a "snap decision" in the moment, and that's a final ruling for right then; "snap decisions" can be discussed outside game session time - it's possible that the ruling may change for future occasions .
I think you need to have a sit down discussion with your Players, and talk about this as adults - but I think the above text is a good compromise position.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.