I can't find interesting low level encounters. I want combat, but I'm beginning to think I should just level up the party using ad-hoc xp. The only cool low level enemies to base dungeons on is skeletons. Should I just have a lot of variety, or just focus on other cool stuff to level up the players? Or can you think of cool low level monsters?
Monsters are tools you can use to flesh out cool encounters - so is the environment, so is the story, so is how the Players approach the encounter, and so is how well and how creatively the DM executes the encounter.
You can, however, tweak monsters to make them a little more interesting. Re-skin them so they look completely different. Swap out special abilities with other special abilities that are about on par in power level. Have monsters use their abilities in interesting ways. Use multiple kinds of monsters, and have them use their abilities to create interesting combination tactics ( although make sure the monsters working together like that makes in-world sense, and from the perspective of the narrative ).
I'd do some research on how to build overall creative and well crafted encounters in general.
Here's a post from a bit backwhere I laid out how I think you can put together more interesting encounters leveraging all the tools you have at hand. I'm sure it can be improved, but it gives you some starting points on how to "switch it up" and make encounters a little more dynamic, and more interesting not only for your Players, but for you.
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Have you picked up Mordenkainen's or Volo's? They provide some new variations. Or you could, you know, start the adventure at a higher level? Sorry to tell you, but low level enemies are meant to be Mook xp farms
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"What do you mean I get disadvantage on persuasion?"
I don't know, Sneet, maybe because your argument is "Submit and become our pet"?
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I can't find interesting low level encounters. I want combat
As a GM you make the encounter interesting by adding flavor around it.
You could have a simple tomb, that had some skeletons, and maybe one that was a skeleton priest.
Why are they there? what caused them to be that way? What are they defending? will more keep coming/spawning?
Also, even a low level monster can be changed. Maybe on skeleton was a former mage who can cast magic missile once.. All of the sudden the party may recalculate how they approach the fight.
Heck, you can have low level ruffians assaulting a town (ie lost mine of Phandelver) and turn that into an interesting story-building/town building escapade.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
They aren't boring, they are basic. Just because they dont have interesting features, doesn't mean they can't do interesting things. Weak humanoid monsters like goblins and kobolds would use ambushes and traps to get an advantage. They may also lure/trap/train less intelligent monsters and beasts to do some of the fighting for them.
all good ideas,one idea i had was mounted combat. I think this would be pretty cool: "As you approach the bridge to Skull Rock, a mounted figure steps out of the mists. As it comes closer the form becomes clear, a skeleton, mounted on his long dead steed charging directly at you. What do you do?" A. Even though the warhorse is CR 1, and the skeleton CR 1/4 and would technically be a very hard encounter, they can only maneuver as one, making the fight interesting, but not impossible. The mounted rules say that the warhorse can only attack once it's rider is dead. Not to mention, a swaying bride would make interesting terrain.
Also, I guess NPC interaction with ad-hoc xp would get the players to the good stuff fast. I.E. An orc ranger who has lived in the Blackwood for decades must be persuaded that the players will not harm the natural order of the forest before letting them pass.
Now, you infer that goblins are boring mooks that are uninteresting and don't really make combat fun. I will try to dissuade your opinion with this story:
I DM'd a game recently with five level 5 players, half were experienced players, one was new to the game, one was a power-gamer rules-layer.
The party had just finished a long rest in a small nook at the base of a series of outcroppings that led into a cave system. The outcroppings jutted out from the wall about 8 feet, they were spaced apart enough that you could jump down without suffering fall damage, and there were seven of them leading from the surface to the cavern floor. Opposite where the party had taken their rest was a good sized opening in the wall which led into the cave system proper, otherwise the area was just a barren spot at the bottom of a hole. What the party was unaware of was that this was the entrance to a goblin village, and this hole was their way up to the surface.
As they broke camp to begin exploring they heard a strange noise echoing down the hole and they looked back up to the surface. They watched as eight goblins started to descend, hopping from outcrop to outcrop. The goblins noticed the party and began raining arrows down on the party. They'd fire a shot, use their bonus action to hide against the wall in the shadows and plink away at the party. Due to the height advantage, the outcropping providing cover, and the shadows assisting in their stealth rolls, the goblins were very difficult to pick off. One of the goblins took out a horn and blew a resounding note, the party heard war drums from the direction of the cave opening. Three turns later four goblins charged in from the cave, the party was surrounded.
This was eight 1/4 cr creatures against five level 5 players, it turned into twelve after the alarm was sounded. If you look this combat up using KFC, or other encounter calculators, you will see that it is considered Easy but just bordering on Medium. The players were fully rested, so they had access to all of their spells and abilities. I almost TPK'd them, I dropped two of them to death saving throws, one fell at the end of the fight but was healed, and the remaining two were at half health. I didn't add any abilities to the goblins, I didn't change any of the weapons, I didn't even roll particularly well, only 2 crits.
The reason low level encounters are easy is because they're used to get the players out of those first few levels quickly. They're used to introduce players to their character mechanics. The reason they're boring is because DM's often mistake low level for lack of intelligence. The bounded accuracy of 5e makes it so any creature can still be considered a threat even at high levels, most times it means adding more monsters to the mix, but it's still dangerous.
The trick is to remember that the creatures aren't necessarily dumb because they're low level, it just means you need make effort in having combats be more than Irish boxing. Standing in front of your opponent and rolling d20s until someone drops is the worst. I hate meatbag fights, they're the worst thing in the game. Give me a cavern with lava pits exploding so I have to avoid magma, mean time the Bugbear and his Hobgoblin buddy are playing hide-n-seek behind stalagmites launching ranged attacks and spells, and their kobold minions are swarming the party from tiny caves dug into the walls of the soon to be active volcano. That is an encounter! Standing in front of the Ancient White Dragon swinging my maul while the dragon swipes at me with it's claws for an hour is a recipe for a nap.
cool! But you have to admit, an undead horse and rider fighting you on a narrow, swaying bridge is pretty epic!
We had something similar happen to us in Curse of Strahd, the fight ended in one hit from our cleric with a critical hit for 78 damage. It was a really boring fight.
Combats are fickle things, the concept may sound cool but the execution is a whole different beast.
Well, these characters are level 1, with a CR 1 ally who actually only averages 6 damage per round, and the rider is protected by two skeletons. Not to mention if you try to dash, you might fall.
Terrain that limits the players forcing them to be creative (bridge)
Environment that causes combat to be trickier (fog)
Creatures that use the previous points to their advantage (tactics/strategy)
That type of thinking can turn any mundane, boring, un-cool creature into a memorable encounter. That same fight with 2 bandits and 2 Mastiffs could be just as deadly/risky and you're using mundane creatures. You could do 2 Guards riding 2 Draft horses and make it a little more difficult and you're using basic creatures again. Heck you could make it a little silly with a Hobgoblin riding a Giant Goat as the encounter and have the same fight.
The recipe is the 3 points listed above. What I'm getting from you is that you're just bored of the same creature being seen rather than combat being boring. Too much of the same thing...
I can't find interesting low level encounters. I want combat, but I'm beginning to think I should just level up the party using ad-hoc xp. The only cool low level enemies to base dungeons on is skeletons. Should I just have a lot of variety, or just focus on other cool stuff to level up the players? Or can you think of cool low level monsters?
I did NOT eat those hikers.
On second thought, i'll just run tomb of annihilation
I did NOT eat those hikers.
actually, i d want to do a homebrew campaign
I did NOT eat those hikers.
Monsters are neither cool, nor uncool.
Monsters are tools you can use to flesh out cool encounters - so is the environment, so is the story, so is how the Players approach the encounter, and so is how well and how creatively the DM executes the encounter.
You can, however, tweak monsters to make them a little more interesting. Re-skin them so they look completely different. Swap out special abilities with other special abilities that are about on par in power level. Have monsters use their abilities in interesting ways. Use multiple kinds of monsters, and have them use their abilities to create interesting combination tactics ( although make sure the monsters working together like that makes in-world sense, and from the perspective of the narrative ).
I'd do some research on how to build overall creative and well crafted encounters in general.
Here's a post from a bit back where I laid out how I think you can put together more interesting encounters leveraging all the tools you have at hand. I'm sure it can be improved, but it gives you some starting points on how to "switch it up" and make encounters a little more dynamic, and more interesting not only for your Players, but for you.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Have you picked up Mordenkainen's or Volo's? They provide some new variations. Or you could, you know, start the adventure at a higher level? Sorry to tell you, but low level enemies are meant to be Mook xp farms
"What do you mean I get disadvantage on persuasion?"
I don't know, Sneet, maybe because your argument is "Submit and become our pet"?
-Actual conversation in a game.
Only if the DM isn't creative enough to use them in an interesting fashion.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
As a GM you make the encounter interesting by adding flavor around it.
You could have a simple tomb, that had some skeletons, and maybe one that was a skeleton priest.
Why are they there? what caused them to be that way? What are they defending? will more keep coming/spawning?
Also, even a low level monster can be changed. Maybe on skeleton was a former mage who can cast magic missile once.. All of the sudden the party may recalculate how they approach the fight.
Heck, you can have low level ruffians assaulting a town (ie lost mine of Phandelver) and turn that into an interesting story-building/town building escapade.
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
They aren't boring, they are basic. Just because they dont have interesting features, doesn't mean they can't do interesting things. Weak humanoid monsters like goblins and kobolds would use ambushes and traps to get an advantage. They may also lure/trap/train less intelligent monsters and beasts to do some of the fighting for them.
These two videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfQx-BhG1q0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oewCA5YE2Ww
By Kanekuo provide some interesting variations on the basic goblin mooks
"What do you mean I get disadvantage on persuasion?"
I don't know, Sneet, maybe because your argument is "Submit and become our pet"?
-Actual conversation in a game.
When in doubt, set the Monster search filter to "Environment: Underwater" (and/or Coastal).
I am one with the Force. The Force is with me.
all good ideas,one idea i had was mounted combat. I think this would be pretty cool: "As you approach the bridge to Skull Rock, a mounted figure steps out of the mists. As it comes closer the form becomes clear, a skeleton, mounted on his long dead steed charging directly at you. What do you do?" A. Even though the warhorse is CR 1, and the skeleton CR 1/4 and would technically be a very hard encounter, they can only maneuver as one, making the fight interesting, but not impossible. The mounted rules say that the warhorse can only attack once it's rider is dead. Not to mention, a swaying bride would make interesting terrain.
I did NOT eat those hikers.
Also, I guess NPC interaction with ad-hoc xp would get the players to the good stuff fast. I.E. An orc ranger who has lived in the Blackwood for decades must be persuaded that the players will not harm the natural order of the forest before letting them pass.
I did NOT eat those hikers.
Now, you infer that goblins are boring mooks that are uninteresting and don't really make combat fun. I will try to dissuade your opinion with this story:
I DM'd a game recently with five level 5 players, half were experienced players, one was new to the game, one was a power-gamer rules-layer.
The party had just finished a long rest in a small nook at the base of a series of outcroppings that led into a cave system. The outcroppings jutted out from the wall about 8 feet, they were spaced apart enough that you could jump down without suffering fall damage, and there were seven of them leading from the surface to the cavern floor. Opposite where the party had taken their rest was a good sized opening in the wall which led into the cave system proper, otherwise the area was just a barren spot at the bottom of a hole. What the party was unaware of was that this was the entrance to a goblin village, and this hole was their way up to the surface.
As they broke camp to begin exploring they heard a strange noise echoing down the hole and they looked back up to the surface. They watched as eight goblins started to descend, hopping from outcrop to outcrop. The goblins noticed the party and began raining arrows down on the party. They'd fire a shot, use their bonus action to hide against the wall in the shadows and plink away at the party. Due to the height advantage, the outcropping providing cover, and the shadows assisting in their stealth rolls, the goblins were very difficult to pick off. One of the goblins took out a horn and blew a resounding note, the party heard war drums from the direction of the cave opening. Three turns later four goblins charged in from the cave, the party was surrounded.
This was eight 1/4 cr creatures against five level 5 players, it turned into twelve after the alarm was sounded. If you look this combat up using KFC, or other encounter calculators, you will see that it is considered Easy but just bordering on Medium. The players were fully rested, so they had access to all of their spells and abilities. I almost TPK'd them, I dropped two of them to death saving throws, one fell at the end of the fight but was healed, and the remaining two were at half health. I didn't add any abilities to the goblins, I didn't change any of the weapons, I didn't even roll particularly well, only 2 crits.
The reason low level encounters are easy is because they're used to get the players out of those first few levels quickly. They're used to introduce players to their character mechanics. The reason they're boring is because DM's often mistake low level for lack of intelligence. The bounded accuracy of 5e makes it so any creature can still be considered a threat even at high levels, most times it means adding more monsters to the mix, but it's still dangerous.
The trick is to remember that the creatures aren't necessarily dumb because they're low level, it just means you need make effort in having combats be more than Irish boxing. Standing in front of your opponent and rolling d20s until someone drops is the worst. I hate meatbag fights, they're the worst thing in the game. Give me a cavern with lava pits exploding so I have to avoid magma, mean time the Bugbear and his Hobgoblin buddy are playing hide-n-seek behind stalagmites launching ranged attacks and spells, and their kobold minions are swarming the party from tiny caves dug into the walls of the soon to be active volcano. That is an encounter! Standing in front of the Ancient White Dragon swinging my maul while the dragon swipes at me with it's claws for an hour is a recipe for a nap.
cool! But you have to admit, an undead horse and rider fighting you on a narrow, swaying bridge is pretty epic!
I did NOT eat those hikers.
We had something similar happen to us in Curse of Strahd, the fight ended in one hit from our cleric with a critical hit for 78 damage. It was a really boring fight.
Combats are fickle things, the concept may sound cool but the execution is a whole different beast.
Well, these characters are level 1, with a CR 1 ally who actually only averages 6 damage per round, and the rider is protected by two skeletons. Not to mention if you try to dash, you might fall.
I did NOT eat those hikers.
also, there is fog, so the horseman can run out of sight and take potshots.
I did NOT eat those hikers.
not in that order
I did NOT eat those hikers.
See, you have a great idea for combat:
That type of thinking can turn any mundane, boring, un-cool creature into a memorable encounter. That same fight with 2 bandits and 2 Mastiffs could be just as deadly/risky and you're using mundane creatures. You could do 2 Guards riding 2 Draft horses and make it a little more difficult and you're using basic creatures again. Heck you could make it a little silly with a Hobgoblin riding a Giant Goat as the encounter and have the same fight.
The recipe is the 3 points listed above. What I'm getting from you is that you're just bored of the same creature being seen rather than combat being boring. Too much of the same thing...
pretty much, same old kobolds, rats, orcs, and goblins. Also, any ideas on how to incorporate that type of thing into a dungeon (skull rock)?
I did NOT eat those hikers.