I'm curious if anyone has ever decided, "You know, I thought this would be a cool campaign, but it's having problems - maybe time to wrap this up, and start something else"?

If so - under what circumstances did you think that?

And - what about Player expectations? What obligations do you feel we have toward Players? I think it would be unfair to say "OK, game over!" in the middle of a story arc - but, if the story arc is coming to a close?

How do you deal with feeling slightly crappy for telling Players, "Cool Character, but the world is wrapping up, now"?

This isn't just theoretical ( huge surprise ). I tried to do a quite "novel" setting this time around, and I'm not sure that was a good choice. I think there's a lot of value in "The Standard Setting" - maybe with a few variations, but mild variations on standard framework is different than trying to spin a largely new setting from the ground up.

There'a a lot to be said for Player accessibility and buy in on the Standard Setting - and picking up novelty on the story and Character front.

So? Experiences? Thoughts? Concerns that one needs to cover off, before wrapping up a campaign?

A little over 2 years ago I was running a game for my local store. The idea was to run 2 groups in the same world and have the actions of each party influence what the other party experienced. Eventually, about a year into the game, I ended up tossing the shop game in the fire due to many reasons, the least of which was disrespectful players. 

I was polite enough to let the players know that the game was wrapping up, I even went so far as to give them a chance at a decent ending to the game. In the end they kept up with their slapstick and disrespectful approach and ended up with a full on TPK at the hands of a Kraken...at level 5.

Sometimes a game just doesn't work, but before you toss the game aside and start with something new, ask your players for their input. Explain your issues, if you can articulate them, and see where their heads are at. Maybe it can be salvaged by taking it in a new direction. If not, you've talked it out with the group and you can all come to an agreement on what to do. Keep the characters and have them pick up in a new setting, start new but have them keep something(s) from their previous characters as heirlooms, or just start fresh. 

DMing, as we've discussed, is a constant educational experience, apologize and move forward.

Quote from DMThac0 >>

 

Sometimes a game just doesn't work, but before you toss the game aside and start with something new, ask your players for their input. Explain your issues, if you can articulate them, and see where their heads are at. Maybe it can be salvaged by taking it in a new direction. If not, you've talked it out with the group and you can all come to an agreement on what to do. Keep the characters and have them pick up in a new setting, start new but have them keep something(s) from their previous characters as heirlooms, or just start fresh. 

DMing, as we've discussed, is a constant educational experience, apologize and move forward.

I had never considered not discussing this with the Players before considering wrapping this up.

I do like the idea of having them keep their Characters and just move the setting; Characters get sucked through a dimensional rift, into a new world. Nope there's no way back. Sorry. With the Player buy-in, of course.

I have absolutely scrapped campaigns before.

Once it was because I had to boot a couple of players for some bad behavior that I won't describe here. After a week or two, myself and the remaining crew decided collectively to just narrate out the remaining story's decision points and start a fresh campaign several decades in the future. Same world, and the remaining players got some influence over the outcome.

The players who had been kicked had kind of soured the campaign for the rest of us, so I offered up the nuclear option and everyone was onboard. Ended up being a fun stress reliever.

A second time, I just made a gut feeling read on the players and saw that they weren't enthusiastic about the story. Raised the question, and they almost all agreed it was time for a change. The current campaign was nearing its end (16th level) and everyone just wanted a break from it.

We talked over a new campaign I'd been brainstorming, so we just shelved the current one until later (never) and ran with the new one.

I'd say overall it matters to the players to have some say in the fates of their characters--whatever that means respective to the campaign. It can flow kind of like a process not all that different from the game itself.

Thanks for the feedback :)

Of course I'll talk it over with the Players, but I've been pondering over what I don't like about this campaign, and what I'd do with a new one.

It may be that I just don't mesh with some of my Players :p

That said, I'm thinking of pitching:

• A Standard Setting ( maybe even Faerûn for a change. I haven't played with/in that since the early 1990s - complicated by the fact that there aren't 5e campaign setting books for that yet ).
• A higher level campaign. The last campaign topped off at 7th level, and then we lost a couple of Players, and we restarted with the current setting. I wanted to run low level to start because 50% of my group were newbies ( at the time ). Maybe start at level 6 this time.
• Start with an established "adventuring company" with an integrated history and backstory.
• Perhaps even creating a set of pre-generated Characters, and a pre-created company. More individual Characters than there are Players, perhaps? Let then pick-and-choose what they want?

Just spitballing it for now :)

"You know, I thought this would be a cool campaign, but it's having problems - maybe time to wrap this up, and start something else"?

In some work disciplines, there is the concept of "fail fast, iterate" (and hopefully learn and improve quickly along the way).

If either you or your players AREN'T having fun, and gaming is beginning to feel like "work", I'd recommend just stopping and doing a reset.  I would -try- to give the players a quasi conclusion though.

If you are creating  new gaming world, consider a set of "unrelated" one-shot sessions that you can use to establish ideas in the new gaming world/campaign setting. That let's you as the DM explore some ideas and see what tweak to make before going "all in" on the potentially new setting.

Heh - I never thought to apply "Fail fast, iterate, and pivot" from work to my campaign! That's cool :D

One of the reasons I've been  reticent to do that, however, is I feel that I have an obligation to the Players to stick it out - kind of part of our social contract.

One of the reasons I'm thinking of doing it, however, is because we're coming up to a good wrap up point for this arc ( Party has made contacts with all the factions who have hired the Party to rescue/assassinate/transport the prisoner respectively, and the BBEGs have literally just blown the bridge at night, and were charging the caravan when we wrapped up the session. One last glorious complex 2 hour combat, and wrapping up all the story loose ends, and we could change campaigns ).

I had thought a series of one-shots, but I hadn't considered a number of them scattered around the new campaign worlds as an introduction, that's a very cool idea! And, you could absolutely keep them actually unrelated other than as a means of introducing facets of the new world to the Players, or start to weave them into a single campaign Narrative.

Lots or really good food for thought, thanks :)

My situation little bit came differently. My campaign first session (kinda). We already have a running campaign, ran by another DM, and said that his campaign is nearing his end, and so i asked the guys if our campaign ends and maybe during the times our DM is unable to DM  they would like another and me as a DM? they all agreed and seemed interested. So, we started our first session and it went decently. I asked for feed back and they all said everything is good. I asked if they request any adjustments or something and they said it's all good actually and continue next time we meet supposedly next week at the same time. But the strange thing that happened that they all disappeared at the same time , some gave excuses others just remained quiet when i texted them. It lasted for good month and a half and when the other DM came back from traveling they all were available and ready to play. The moment the DM was unable to come next week they all disappeared as well.

Then came a week where the DM did show up but wanted to hang out and they all showed up too and no sign of remembering my campaign even existed. And so they all have sessions whenever our DM can and whenever he can't they all disappear. So, i thought to myself... if they are unable to be honest with me i'll do them and myself a favor and let the campaign end my campaign.

An interesting set of questions and some good assures. If its not working out then its not working out. If the players are still lower level just slowly make adjustments to the campaign as you feel fit. This is a game of creativity. Have some crazy world event that causes the needed changes and let the players move on with the game. If the players are higher level and you wrap up the campaign by whatever means let the players retire their characters and start new ones in the same world years down the road. If you are just looking to drop the group well, thats a bit different. Defiantly talk to the players if you feel that you need to just drop it and start over but I think that adjustments to the campaign can be made in most cases. If you need to take things from the players then do it. Your the DM. Just be creative about it. 

I think your only real obligation to the players is to make sure that they are enjoying themselves. With player expectations thats a hit or miss. Some groups might have that one player who expects the game to be about their character and not about the party ( have had to deal with this ). That can cause all sorts of issues in some cases. Even to the point where you might loose a player/players. If the game is about the party then it should be relatively easy to handle.  

I never start with a large setting simply because I do not want to put in the time only to toss it all out. I start small and grow from their letting the players more or less do as they please, or go as they please. I then start to develop a sort of endgame theme that I can slowly bring to the players. Still letting them do pretty much as they want unless there is some unavoidable event or encounter tied to the developing world. I adjust the game as I see fit based on the previous session. Once you wrap up with a campaign you will have all of that from the previous game to toss new players/character into to runaround in ad continue to grow.   

Lots or really good food for thought, thanks :)

 

You're welcome!  (send beer!) 

We're all here to help each other and learn.  It's great that we have avenues to ask questions and provide, or be provided with sounding boards.