Like you can tell by the title I have a problem with one Player in my group. So to start from the beginning he played a Wizzard every thing was fine he had a great toolset of good spells like sleep. Any ways in one session he used Minor Illusion to scare some fleeing guy in a diffrent direction and i let it worked because it seemd reasonable. So later on he tryed to fool a guy by using the same spell to Make an Immage of a guy sitting on the back of ther wagon right in front of every ones eyes... i told him the guy could tell it was just an immage that dosent move like a cardboard cut. However since then he complains about that magic is weak because i dont let everything pass. I told him there are ways you can use spells Creatively but it might not work every time like he imagen it.
So this leads to the next Problem.... We startet very frequently a new campain (Waterdeeps Dragon Heist). So every one can create a new Charakter. And he tryed to come up with a new Character... and changed his class at least 5 times. Every class he picked was in his opinion "weak/not good enoght". So i tryed to help him finding a good class. He told me wizzards are bad because all spells are bad and thats why Bards are also bad and the only good class is Fighter. Then he looked in to fighter and said well all subclasses of fighter are bad will i find this legenday item thru the campain, because if not this fighter wont make sense. However while he couln't decide what class he wants to play he shit talked all the previous classes espacialy Bard, and told them there is only one true way of a good bard etc. In the end he picked a Paladin because he dint want to pick a second Bard in one grp and wants to multiclass later on. (fine by me)
Well then the session started we had plenty of fun but in one of the combats he said i would always fiddle the dice so the combat is harder. I told him I dont but if he wants i can roll infront of every one... he denyed that. (i do that rarely but more to save the grp from an instent death). So in the Bossfight of the first Modul they faced a pretty intense fight... well the paladin run in first wile the rest stayed 20 feet behind him. He got focused by the Interlect and got reduced to 0 Int in the end of round one. Immedietly he looked up the stat block to see what attack that was and Questioned me about schoulnt we be lvl 2 to fight something like this. In the end my grp managed to win the fight and the session ended.
Maybe some one got expirience with these kind of players or you guys have some tips how to handle this. Its kind of nerve wrecking and it take my fun for DMing a bit. I dont want to kick him out of the Party because we are all friends and i dont want to exclude him from the grp. Thanks for reading through all of that it got longer then expected.
Even if you are running a module, you are free to modify encounters and stat blocks however you feel... and the CR system is not what I would call accurate. So modifying monsters gives you virtually endless options, as well as an easy end to conversations about an encounter not being suitable based on the book, just say you tweaked the stat block and you are done.
The rest is not an issue I have had to deal with, but it sounds a bit like he is after the sort of game where the party are demigods cleaving through endless opposition without facing any real threat, so making sure the two of you are expecting a similar style of game is a good start, but I expect other people will have a range of solutions.
I've dealt with players who exhibit some of these behaviors, and I definitely understand how frustrating and disruptive it can be. There's not an easy answer, but I hope these steps are helpful:
First, don't engage the interruptions that are disruptive. Don't feed the trolls, so to speak. Don't argue with him, don't try to shut him up; instead offer to talk later when the group isn't playing.
I try to respond in those moments by saying, “I hear you and I understand, but let's talk about it after we're finished playing.”
Even if you don't understand, it's important for him to hear that phrase because it will let him feel like he's been heard--which very well may be all that he needs in the moment. If he's willing to talk with you later, then at least it's not interrupting the game anymore.
If he does it again or persists, just repeat yourself, “Okay, I hear you. I understand. Let's talk after the game.” By the third or fourth time it'll feel kind of silly, but if he's truly being disruptive then it'll start to be really obvious to everyone else, and he'll start to feel self-conscious. Hopefully he will learn from that experience.
Last, follow through: do actually make a point to talk with him later about what's going on and try to understand his frustrations. Part of running a good game means understanding your players, and this is no exception. Hopefully he'll talk one on one and open up a bit so you can help solve the real problems that are bothering him.
Just make sure you also drive home the point that the game is not the appropriate time to make a stink about something.
He looked up the sat block of an encounter mid-game? During the encounter? Do NOT let that kind of behavior stand. When I started playing that would have led to instant and irrevocable character death, usually accompanied by disintegration of the body and all equipment, no save. If you allow him to keep doing this it will destroy your campaign. Never let players look up monsters, etc in the books during the game. The only book they should be allowed access to is the Player's Handbook, unless they need to look up something that directly pertains to their character in one of the other books.
It sounds like this player doesn't really like the game as written. He wants to play out his own power fantasies. He will try to play them out using you and the other players at the table as pawns if you let him. Be firm. Do not get drawn into arguments. You are the DM, it is your game. Be fair, but be firm.
If he accuses you of cheating the dice get a dice tower and insist that all dice for the game be rolled through it, yours and the players'. All dice must be rolled where everyone can see them, and the scores witnessed.
To be honest if every character class sucks, magic is too weak, and he feels he can look u the monsters mid encounter and then argue with DM about is happening, this may not be the game for him. I get that he is a friend and you want to include him. Sooner or later though you are going to have to have the 'Come to Jesus" talk with him and let him know that he needs to shape up his behavior if he wants to continue playing in your game. You have every bit an equal right to have fun and enjoy the game as your players do. If you aren't enjoying it, don't do it. Trust me, life is too short to waste time on leisure activities that aren't fun. If need be let one of the other players take a turn at DMing, so you get a break from it.
To be honest if every character class sucks, magic is too weak, and he feels he can look u the monsters mid encounter and then argue with DM about is happening, this may not be the game for him.
This is the same type of guy who will pause a video game to look up all the button combos while playing against you. It's just not a fun experience.
Stay friends, but end the D&D relationship, else it will tear your entire campaign apart.
It seems you've already gotten a lot of good help so this may be a bit too late but... erh.
First of, tell him that because the minor illusion was right up against the face of the guy he wanted to frightend, the guy could tell he didn't breath, blink nor move the slightest. And it even says in the spell that you can make an investigation check against your spell save DC to determine if it is an illusion. It may be that he didn't read his spells for whatever reason. It happens.
Secondly. If you run monsters by the book this may be one to skip. But tell him that not all monsters are pulled right out of the book. And that pretty much every if not every single encounter is for the group. So running in alone at level 2 is like shooting yourself in the foot. I've dealt with a few new players who would do something not so smart. And I'd have them make intelligence checks. Low roll, I'd look at them and repeat what they said they'd do just to confirm. Probably ask the classic "are you sure?". High roll I'd explain the error in their actions and ask if they are still going through with it.
A thing I forgot to tell my new players that is still a problem is that d&d is a team effort based game. You need to have a sense of when to role play and when to go along with it because it helps the DM. Talk with the player and tell him what kind of DM you are. Tell him why the illusion didn't work, tell him why he went to 0 hit points when his team wasn't with him. He is giving you the fault of his errors. Maybe he doesn't realize it and that's totally okay! Some people don't see that. If he can't see the reasoning in why the things that happened, were because of his own actions. Or because that not all illusions trick every single commoner. Commoners might tell their children of dangerous trickery magic and wizards who explode their enemies with fire! It's no secret that the spell fireball exists, nor is it a secret that illusion spells exist. Sometimes, giving them reasons for your actions can help.
But I am sorry my friend. For if he does not respect your ruling as a DM. Whether it be because he still doesn't see his errors, or that he is angry with how you rule the effects. Then it's not the best idea to keep him at the table IMHO. That's just not good for your nor the other players. I hope this helps! Good luck my man! I hope you still find the fun in DMing!
Thanks man, I will keep DMing for sure its still a lot of fun. It just make me wonder if im doing something wrong. I tried to explain him all of that, why it dosen't work why he gets focused etc. He always says it's ok, but i fell like it's not because of all those passive aggressive comments later on. I also told them that this Campaign is very Dangerous. In terms of the Intellect i din't used his multi attack and i also din't used the body thief ability. I will tell him to stop with these comments in game and if he has a real problem he can bring it on afterwards. Maybe i will also let him or another player dm something so he can see that it is so much to think about and there is no time for extra stuff.
I have a system called Brownie Points (BP), where doing things like making dice towers causes a player to lose Brownie Points, and they gain Brownie Points for good behaviour, like helping other players out. With enough BP, they can use them for rewards, like taking an action back- before they know the consequences, of course.
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My life feels like an important exam I didn't study for.
...where doing things like making dice towers causes a player to lose Brownie Points, ...
I hope that decision is based on context, and not just across the board. If they are actually paying attention, and not distracting anyone else, why are they losing points for occupying their hands?
I don't know how far into this dungeon you have progressed, but when you finish it I recommend you say that you would like a break as DM and let someone else do it. Let a couple of the other players be DM and then he'll poke the bear once too often.
I like the advice about inviting him to talk about it after the session. When you say "I understand, I hear you. Let's talk about it after the session." I take that to mean you understand he is disappointed, not that you agree with his point of view. In these talks ask him to try and place himself in your shoes.
At the end of the day, I agree with the observation that he expects to be a Demi-god that just blows everything away. Remind him, low level characters are like Sam, Merry and Pipin; not Legolas, Gimli and Strider.
As far as looking up a monster during the session, that is just plain metagaming, and I hope your group would not condone that. Good luck.
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Hello evrery one,
Like you can tell by the title I have a problem with one Player in my group.
So to start from the beginning he played a Wizzard every thing was fine he had a great toolset of good spells like sleep.
Any ways in one session he used Minor Illusion to scare some fleeing guy in a diffrent direction and i let it worked because it seemd reasonable.
So later on he tryed to fool a guy by using the same spell to Make an Immage of a guy sitting on the back of ther wagon right in front of every ones eyes... i told him the guy could tell it was just an immage that dosent move like a cardboard cut.
However since then he complains about that magic is weak because i dont let everything pass. I told him there are ways you can use spells Creatively but it might not work every time like he imagen it.
So this leads to the next Problem....
We startet very frequently a new campain (Waterdeeps Dragon Heist). So every one can create a new Charakter.
And he tryed to come up with a new Character... and changed his class at least 5 times. Every class he picked was in his opinion "weak/not good enoght".
So i tryed to help him finding a good class. He told me wizzards are bad because all spells are bad and thats why Bards are also bad and the only good class is Fighter.
Then he looked in to fighter and said well all subclasses of fighter are bad will i find this legenday item thru the campain, because if not this fighter wont make sense.
However while he couln't decide what class he wants to play he shit talked all the previous classes espacialy Bard, and told them there is only one true way of a good bard etc.
In the end he picked a Paladin because he dint want to pick a second Bard in one grp and wants to multiclass later on. (fine by me)
Well then the session started we had plenty of fun but in one of the combats he said i would always fiddle the dice so the combat is harder. I told him I dont but if he wants i can roll infront of every one... he denyed that. (i do that rarely but more to save the grp from an instent death).
So in the Bossfight of the first Modul they faced a pretty intense fight... well the paladin run in first wile the rest stayed 20 feet behind him. He got focused by the Interlect and got reduced to 0 Int in the end of round one. Immedietly he looked up the stat block to see what attack that was and Questioned me about schoulnt we be lvl 2 to fight something like this.
In the end my grp managed to win the fight and the session ended.
Maybe some one got expirience with these kind of players or you guys have some tips how to handle this. Its kind of nerve wrecking and it take my fun for DMing a bit. I dont want to kick him out of the Party because we are all friends and i dont want to exclude him from the grp.
Thanks for reading through all of that it got longer then expected.
Even if you are running a module, you are free to modify encounters and stat blocks however you feel... and the CR system is not what I would call accurate. So modifying monsters gives you virtually endless options, as well as an easy end to conversations about an encounter not being suitable based on the book, just say you tweaked the stat block and you are done.
The rest is not an issue I have had to deal with, but it sounds a bit like he is after the sort of game where the party are demigods cleaving through endless opposition without facing any real threat, so making sure the two of you are expecting a similar style of game is a good start, but I expect other people will have a range of solutions.
I've dealt with players who exhibit some of these behaviors, and I definitely understand how frustrating and disruptive it can be. There's not an easy answer, but I hope these steps are helpful:
First, don't engage the interruptions that are disruptive. Don't feed the trolls, so to speak. Don't argue with him, don't try to shut him up; instead offer to talk later when the group isn't playing.
I try to respond in those moments by saying, “I hear you and I understand, but let's talk about it after we're finished playing.”
Even if you don't understand, it's important for him to hear that phrase because it will let him feel like he's been heard--which very well may be all that he needs in the moment. If he's willing to talk with you later, then at least it's not interrupting the game anymore.
If he does it again or persists, just repeat yourself, “Okay, I hear you. I understand. Let's talk after the game.” By the third or fourth time it'll feel kind of silly, but if he's truly being disruptive then it'll start to be really obvious to everyone else, and he'll start to feel self-conscious. Hopefully he will learn from that experience.
Last, follow through: do actually make a point to talk with him later about what's going on and try to understand his frustrations. Part of running a good game means understanding your players, and this is no exception. Hopefully he'll talk one on one and open up a bit so you can help solve the real problems that are bothering him.
Just make sure you also drive home the point that the game is not the appropriate time to make a stink about something.
He looked up the sat block of an encounter mid-game? During the encounter? Do NOT let that kind of behavior stand. When I started playing that would have led to instant and irrevocable character death, usually accompanied by disintegration of the body and all equipment, no save. If you allow him to keep doing this it will destroy your campaign. Never let players look up monsters, etc in the books during the game. The only book they should be allowed access to is the Player's Handbook, unless they need to look up something that directly pertains to their character in one of the other books.
It sounds like this player doesn't really like the game as written. He wants to play out his own power fantasies. He will try to play them out using you and the other players at the table as pawns if you let him. Be firm. Do not get drawn into arguments. You are the DM, it is your game. Be fair, but be firm.
If he accuses you of cheating the dice get a dice tower and insist that all dice for the game be rolled through it, yours and the players'. All dice must be rolled where everyone can see them, and the scores witnessed.
To be honest if every character class sucks, magic is too weak, and he feels he can look u the monsters mid encounter and then argue with DM about is happening, this may not be the game for him. I get that he is a friend and you want to include him. Sooner or later though you are going to have to have the 'Come to Jesus" talk with him and let him know that he needs to shape up his behavior if he wants to continue playing in your game. You have every bit an equal right to have fun and enjoy the game as your players do. If you aren't enjoying it, don't do it. Trust me, life is too short to waste time on leisure activities that aren't fun. If need be let one of the other players take a turn at DMing, so you get a break from it.
This is the same type of guy who will pause a video game to look up all the button combos while playing against you. It's just not a fun experience.
Stay friends, but end the D&D relationship, else it will tear your entire campaign apart.
Thanks for all of your help. I will try everything out, if that dosent work i know what to do.
It seems you've already gotten a lot of good help so this may be a bit too late but... erh.
First of, tell him that because the minor illusion was right up against the face of the guy he wanted to frightend, the guy could tell he didn't breath, blink nor move the slightest. And it even says in the spell that you can make an investigation check against your spell save DC to determine if it is an illusion. It may be that he didn't read his spells for whatever reason. It happens.
Secondly. If you run monsters by the book this may be one to skip. But tell him that not all monsters are pulled right out of the book. And that pretty much every if not every single encounter is for the group. So running in alone at level 2 is like shooting yourself in the foot. I've dealt with a few new players who would do something not so smart. And I'd have them make intelligence checks. Low roll, I'd look at them and repeat what they said they'd do just to confirm. Probably ask the classic "are you sure?". High roll I'd explain the error in their actions and ask if they are still going through with it.
A thing I forgot to tell my new players that is still a problem is that d&d is a team effort based game. You need to have a sense of when to role play and when to go along with it because it helps the DM. Talk with the player and tell him what kind of DM you are. Tell him why the illusion didn't work, tell him why he went to 0 hit points when his team wasn't with him. He is giving you the fault of his errors. Maybe he doesn't realize it and that's totally okay! Some people don't see that. If he can't see the reasoning in why the things that happened, were because of his own actions. Or because that not all illusions trick every single commoner. Commoners might tell their children of dangerous trickery magic and wizards who explode their enemies with fire! It's no secret that the spell fireball exists, nor is it a secret that illusion spells exist. Sometimes, giving them reasons for your actions can help.
But I am sorry my friend. For if he does not respect your ruling as a DM. Whether it be because he still doesn't see his errors, or that he is angry with how you rule the effects.
Then it's not the best idea to keep him at the table IMHO. That's just not good for your nor the other players. I hope this helps! Good luck my man! I hope you still find the fun in DMing!
Best the loot and luck to you my friend! ^^
Thanks man, I will keep DMing for sure its still a lot of fun.
It just make me wonder if im doing something wrong. I tried to explain him all of that, why it dosen't work why he gets focused etc.
He always says it's ok, but i fell like it's not because of all those passive aggressive comments later on.
I also told them that this Campaign is very Dangerous. In terms of the Intellect i din't used his multi attack and i also din't used the body thief ability.
I will tell him to stop with these comments in game and if he has a real problem he can bring it on afterwards.
Maybe i will also let him or another player dm something so he can see that it is so much to think about and there is no time for extra stuff.
I have a system called Brownie Points (BP), where doing things like making dice towers causes a player to lose Brownie Points, and they gain Brownie Points for good behaviour, like helping other players out. With enough BP, they can use them for rewards, like taking an action back- before they know the consequences, of course.
My life feels like an important exam I didn't study for.
I hope that decision is based on context, and not just across the board. If they are actually paying attention, and not distracting anyone else, why are they losing points for occupying their hands?
I don't know how far into this dungeon you have progressed, but when you finish it I recommend you say that you would like a break as DM and let someone else do it. Let a couple of the other players be DM and then he'll poke the bear once too often.
I like the advice about inviting him to talk about it after the session. When you say "I understand, I hear you. Let's talk about it after the session." I take that to mean you understand he is disappointed, not that you agree with his point of view. In these talks ask him to try and place himself in your shoes.
At the end of the day, I agree with the observation that he expects to be a Demi-god that just blows everything away. Remind him, low level characters are like Sam, Merry and Pipin; not Legolas, Gimli and Strider.
As far as looking up a monster during the session, that is just plain metagaming, and I hope your group would not condone that. Good luck.