I'm running (and massaging) Lost Mines of Phandelver as an intro into DMing. We're about to head for Wave Echo Cave, and I'm floundering. I've been a bit free with rearranging and massing the actual storyline, since I have players who have played through this module several times before. As I get deeper in, though, I'm back to the actual storyline more and more.
My players are all fourth level at this point. I would like to add more puzzles and skill challenges rather than just battles and bad guys. But as an inexperienced gamer and a new DM, I'm realizing I don't know enough about the various classes to really challenge my players in that way. In fact, I don't even know enough to search successfully online for suggestions and resources.
I've read most of the basic material, but where, other than years of gaming experience, can I find out more about how to incorporate the various skills and attributes of my players' classes into the game? A local friend who is a more experienced DM said, "Oh, use the cleric. Do this!" And I'm boggled--is there a resource(s) that can help me put together this knowledge other than just trying to read through and memorize years and years of lore?
In particular, as they get to Wave Echo Cave, I would like to:
a) have some kind of challenge at the front of the cave for my Tiefling Cleric. She had a visitation from their deity and was given a clue of some sort. What kind of puzzle/challenge would be specifically for the cleric? (My only reference at this point is the Fellowship gathered at the gate to Moria waiting for someone to figure out how to open that door). As I kept digging through this forum, I found an idea that's simple but works. That said, any ideas on how to use the cleric in the game are appreciated.
b) how do I counter my wizard's familiar, who seems to be able to follow bad buys/investigate/scope out damn near everything I plan as a surprise for them?
c) I have a very charismatic bard; should I be letting them be anything but a tank as we move through the module--at least until we get to the end?
(Background: My own experience gaming, other than a brief stint with AD&D in college ages ago, is mostly in the last couple of years. I've got about a year-and-a-half's worth of 3.5e (playing a dwarf druid focused on elementals) overlapped with about the same amount of time playing characters in Numenera and Adventures in Middle Earth. I've never been much of a gamer in general. My group, on the other hand, consists of six players, all of whom have been playing D&D and generally gaming for their whole lives. They all knew they'd be helping me learn to DM, and in four months of regular games, everyone seems to be having fun in spite of my faux pas and no one has quit. It's a larger group than is ideal for a new DM, but we never expected EVERYone we asked if they'd be interested to say, "yes!")
What form does your wizard give their familiar most often? (i.e. is he a cat most frequently? a horse? I know that last form isn't actually a familiar form, but still.) The form the familiar takes will have drawbacks and advantages which you can play off of. cats don't actually have dark vision per RAW. So if it's a cat, who gets advantage on checks relying on smell, have the trap laid in such a way that an element of it is meant specifically to thwart that sense of smell. If the familiar's form is a bat, use the lack of physical sight to your advantage. Give the bad guys something that squelches the noise they make, or have them hiding on the ethereal plane with a quick way to get back to the material. Then the bat's echolocation is made unreliable because the bad guys circumvented it.
Within reason, let the bard's player make their character what they want. Bard's are heavy on charisma, all their stuff is based on CHA. in my limited experience with D&D i've never known bard to be a tank. They're usually the distance spellcaster, supporting the group with ranged combat and their bardic inspiration. It's not up to the DM to decide what is in character or not for their players' characters.
What form does your wizard give their familiar most often? (i.e. is he a cat most frequently? a horse? I know that last form isn't actually a familiar form, but still.) The form the familiar takes will have drawbacks and advantages which you can play off of. cats don't actually have dark vision per RAW. So if it's a cat, who gets advantage on checks relying on smell, have the trap laid in such a way that an element of it is meant specifically to thwart that sense of smell. If the familiar's form is a bat, use the lack of physical sight to your advantage. Give the bad guys something that squelches the noise they make, or have them hiding on the ethereal plane with a quick way to get back to the material. Then the bat's echolocation is made unreliable because the bad guys circumvented it.
Within reason, let the bard's player make their character what they want. Bard's are heavy on charisma, all their stuff is based on CHA. in my limited experience with D&D i've never known bard to be a tank. They're usually the distance spellcaster, supporting the group with ranged combat and their bardic inspiration. It's not up to the DM to decide what is in character or not for their players' characters.
The familiar is usually a bird of some sort, mostly an owl. When we hit caves, it becomes a bat. I understand the concept of working against the familiar, as you've suggested, and I've tried but usually failed. I'll keep digging for ways to counter them.
Our bard is damned good with her vicious mockery and other spells, but due to the makeup of the party often does wind up being our barbarian's back-up tank. I tend to just let them do their own thing, so it sounds like I'm getting that right.
May I suggest that you not worry about challenging the characters? It's ok to be a new DM and not know everything. It's ok to not have every rule memorized. If the players are having fun, then you are doing it right.
Cosplaywrite gave you some good starting ideas on the thinking that goes into countering character abilities. All of that comes with practice. Sometimes I'll drop an, "Are you sure you want to do that? ... OK..." roll some dice, "huh, " and let play continue - just to keep them thinking. "As far as the familiar can tell..." is another useful phrase. Mumbling under your breath, "hmmm, passive perception is... " also useful. It isn't tricking the players so much as keeping them a little more honest.
Six players is also a large group for a new DM. Also sounds like the group isn't making it any extra difficult, so that's good. Continue taking your time and learning as you go.
SlyFlourish's books on DriveThruRPG.com (some also on Amazon Kindle) might be useful to make game prep easier. There are other products like Dungeon Master - Tips and Advice For New DM's on dmsguild.com that are free, or at very low cost that have resources and tips for new DM's. However, learning how to counter the plan ruining shenanigans that your party will throw at you is generally done the hard way, with practice.
If having fun is the measure, then I am doing all right--unless they're all just so desperate to play that they'll put up with anything. :D It is a really good group--though it probably helps that some are related to me. I also talk to and debrief with my players when I can, to find out what works and what doesn't.
Those little "hmmm..." moments are a great idea. I know some of my problem is just that I get lost in juggling All The Things of running the game and dealing with the characters and...yeah. I will try to script some or add some of those pauses in for the next game.
Even though I know that I don't need to know it all now--I want to! It has been a while since I picked up a hobby that had such a serious learning curve, it's been a bit bruising to the ego to realize just how much I do have to learn. The Sly Flourish books have been very useful; they're the first ones I bought when I took up this gig. Same with the information here; I've looked at it and used some of it. But sometimes there just isn't enough detail in those resources to answer my questions. And sometimes in my frustration I just need the reminder to go back and look again.
Thank you, both! I appreciate your suggestions and your insights.
The wizard can change the form a familiar takes only when the FInd Familiar spell is cast or recast, so to change the familiar form either costs a spell slot or time spent casting it as a ritual. Plus there is the material component cost.
If the party is sitting around waiting for the wizard to finish recasting Find Familiar, they could be discovered and ambushed.
Find Familiar’s casting time is 1 hour. Ritual casting adds 10 minutes. I doubt a wizard would ever prepare Find Familiar or cast it using a spell slot.
I don't think you need to find ways of "beating" the players, most of the time. It becomes kind of frustrating for players if they ever realize that the DM is deliberately tailoring the enemies to thwart the players' abilities.
If they're using their Familiar to scout ahead, most of the time, that *should* help them avoid ambushes and surprises! That's Familiars working as they should!
The obvious weaknesses of this are:
1) Closed doors. Bat can't exactly open a door. If the party opens the door and sends the bat in, then whatever's in the room is most definitely alerted to the presence of the party, and has time to prepare.
2) If the enemy is smart enough, they'll know exactly what it means when a door opens and a stray bat flies in and scouts the place. So if they ever fight any enemy with spellcasting abilities or who has fought wizards before, they can react to the bat - e.g. attack the bat, and then prepare to ambush the wizard they now know is coming.
But in other situations, when fighting just goblins or orcs or undead - yeah, familiars are gonna be able to easily scout everything they need to.
The wizard can change the form a familiar takes only when the FInd Familiar spell is cast or recast, so to change the familiar form either costs a spell slot or time spent casting it as a ritual. Plus there is the material component cost.
If the party is sitting around waiting for the wizard to finish recasting Find Familiar, they could be discovered and ambushed.
Find Familiar’s casting time is 1 hour. Ritual casting adds 10 minutes. I doubt a wizard would ever prepare Find Familiar or cast it using a spell slot.
That sounds about right; I don't recall the familiar changing mid-flight. I apologize if that's how it appeared when I wrote the description.
I'm not trying to "beat" my players, just make it fun/challenging for them. I found an online generator that helps me scale up the encounters for the larger, more experienced party, but that's all I've been using.
Okay, so familiars are not conjured, they're actual animals. It's the simplest details sometimes. Argh.
Thank you!
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I'm running (and massaging) Lost Mines of Phandelver as an intro into DMing. We're about to head for Wave Echo Cave, and I'm floundering. I've been a bit free with rearranging and massing the actual storyline, since I have players who have played through this module several times before. As I get deeper in, though, I'm back to the actual storyline more and more.
My players are all fourth level at this point. I would like to add more puzzles and skill challenges rather than just battles and bad guys. But as an inexperienced gamer and a new DM, I'm realizing I don't know enough about the various classes to really challenge my players in that way. In fact, I don't even know enough to search successfully online for suggestions and resources.
I've read most of the basic material, but where, other than years of gaming experience, can I find out more about how to incorporate the various skills and attributes of my players' classes into the game? A local friend who is a more experienced DM said, "Oh, use the cleric. Do this!" And I'm boggled--is there a resource(s) that can help me put together this knowledge other than just trying to read through and memorize years and years of lore?
In particular, as they get to Wave Echo Cave, I would like to:
a)
have some kind of challenge at the front of the cave for my Tiefling Cleric. She had a visitation from their deity and was given a clue of some sort. What kind of puzzle/challenge would be specifically for the cleric? (My only reference at this point is the Fellowship gathered at the gate to Moria waiting for someone to figure out how to open that door).As I kept digging through this forum, I found an idea that's simple but works. That said, any ideas on how to use the cleric in the game are appreciated.b) how do I counter my wizard's familiar, who seems to be able to follow bad buys/investigate/scope out damn near everything I plan as a surprise for them?
c) I have a very charismatic bard; should I be letting them be anything but a tank as we move through the module--at least until we get to the end?
(Background: My own experience gaming, other than a brief stint with AD&D in college ages ago, is mostly in the last couple of years. I've got about a year-and-a-half's worth of 3.5e (playing a dwarf druid focused on elementals) overlapped with about the same amount of time playing characters in Numenera and Adventures in Middle Earth. I've never been much of a gamer in general. My group, on the other hand, consists of six players, all of whom have been playing D&D and generally gaming for their whole lives. They all knew they'd be helping me learn to DM, and in four months of regular games, everyone seems to be having fun in spite of my faux pas and no one has quit. It's a larger group than is ideal for a new DM, but we never expected EVERYone we asked if they'd be interested to say, "yes!")
What form does your wizard give their familiar most often? (i.e. is he a cat most frequently? a horse? I know that last form isn't actually a familiar form, but still.) The form the familiar takes will have drawbacks and advantages which you can play off of. cats don't actually have dark vision per RAW. So if it's a cat, who gets advantage on checks relying on smell, have the trap laid in such a way that an element of it is meant specifically to thwart that sense of smell. If the familiar's form is a bat, use the lack of physical sight to your advantage. Give the bad guys something that squelches the noise they make, or have them hiding on the ethereal plane with a quick way to get back to the material. Then the bat's echolocation is made unreliable because the bad guys circumvented it.
Within reason, let the bard's player make their character what they want. Bard's are heavy on charisma, all their stuff is based on CHA. in my limited experience with D&D i've never known bard to be a tank. They're usually the distance spellcaster, supporting the group with ranged combat and their bardic inspiration. It's not up to the DM to decide what is in character or not for their players' characters.
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The familiar is usually a bird of some sort, mostly an owl. When we hit caves, it becomes a bat. I understand the concept of working against the familiar, as you've suggested, and I've tried but usually failed. I'll keep digging for ways to counter them.
Our bard is damned good with her vicious mockery and other spells, but due to the makeup of the party often does wind up being our barbarian's back-up tank. I tend to just let them do their own thing, so it sounds like I'm getting that right.
If having fun is the measure, then I am doing all right--unless they're all just so desperate to play that they'll put up with anything. :D It is a really good group--though it probably helps that some are related to me. I also talk to and debrief with my players when I can, to find out what works and what doesn't.
Those little "hmmm..." moments are a great idea. I know some of my problem is just that I get lost in juggling All The Things of running the game and dealing with the characters and...yeah. I will try to script some or add some of those pauses in for the next game.
Even though I know that I don't need to know it all now--I want to! It has been a while since I picked up a hobby that had such a serious learning curve, it's been a bit bruising to the ego to realize just how much I do have to learn. The Sly Flourish books have been very useful; they're the first ones I bought when I took up this gig. Same with the information here; I've looked at it and used some of it. But sometimes there just isn't enough detail in those resources to answer my questions. And sometimes in my frustration I just need the reminder to go back and look again.
Thank you, both! I appreciate your suggestions and your insights.
The wizard can change the form a familiar takes only when the FInd Familiar spell is cast or recast, so to change the familiar form either costs a spell slot or time spent casting it as a ritual. Plus there is the material component cost.
If the party is sitting around waiting for the wizard to finish recasting Find Familiar, they could be discovered and ambushed.
Find Familiar’s casting time is 1 hour. Ritual casting adds 10 minutes. I doubt a wizard would ever prepare Find Familiar or cast it using a spell slot.
I don't think you need to find ways of "beating" the players, most of the time. It becomes kind of frustrating for players if they ever realize that the DM is deliberately tailoring the enemies to thwart the players' abilities.
If they're using their Familiar to scout ahead, most of the time, that *should* help them avoid ambushes and surprises! That's Familiars working as they should!
The obvious weaknesses of this are:
1) Closed doors. Bat can't exactly open a door. If the party opens the door and sends the bat in, then whatever's in the room is most definitely alerted to the presence of the party, and has time to prepare.
2) If the enemy is smart enough, they'll know exactly what it means when a door opens and a stray bat flies in and scouts the place. So if they ever fight any enemy with spellcasting abilities or who has fought wizards before, they can react to the bat - e.g. attack the bat, and then prepare to ambush the wizard they now know is coming.
But in other situations, when fighting just goblins or orcs or undead - yeah, familiars are gonna be able to easily scout everything they need to.
That sounds about right; I don't recall the familiar changing mid-flight. I apologize if that's how it appeared when I wrote the description.
Shakespearean insults are the best.
I'm not trying to "beat" my players, just make it fun/challenging for them. I found an online generator that helps me scale up the encounters for the larger, more experienced party, but that's all I've been using.
Okay, so familiars are not conjured, they're actual animals. It's the simplest details sometimes. Argh.
Thank you!