Me again! I swear all these questions are temporary, I'm learning just as fast as I can. This is long one.
As I alluded in a previous post, I want my party to face some consequences after wiping out the Redbrands and burning down Tresendar Manor. I have a good sketch in my head of how I want to shape the encounter, but insufficient experience to establish exact numbers and get the balance right. I'm hoping to draw from your collective experience to polish up what I hope is already a good idea.
Since it's intimated in the narrative that the Redbrands were kind of keeping order in the town, I think it makes sense for the local goblins to be emboldened now that their absence has been signaled far and wide by their hideout being razed to the ground. The adventurers are currently off handling Agatha's Lair, Old Owl Well, and Wyvern Tor. I'd like for them to return to Phandalin to be greeted by the sight of of a large raiding party of Goblin minions, led by a bugbear boss and a bugbear (or two?). Sildar and 4-6(?) freshly deputized town guards (really just citizens given swords, armor and a week of training) will be fighting them off as best they can. Ol' doomsayer Harbin wasn't so dumb afterall -
"You fools! You don't even know what you've done! The Redbrands were no saints, but for a price they protected the town! The burning mansion can be seen for miles around! Now we're going to be overrun by goblins and orcs!
"I hate adventurers! Wait, you're not adventurers. You're, you're... accomplices! You're arsonists! You're anarchists!"
- Harbin Wester, chiding the party last night, before Sildar calmed him. He's not a big fan.
I thought this could be a really fun use for Colville's action oriented goblin boss (in this case a bugbear) with the addition of charm immunity so the wizard can't just Suggest that he call all the gobbos off. (Aside - I've been watching tons of Colville's videos since you pointed me to the Wangrod defense, so many thanks for that.) I want to try to sell the idea that the town can handle gobbos, if only it weren't for this boss. The tide should be turned when the party realizes they need to focus fire on the boss. If they have a particularly bad case of the dumb that night, Sildar will eventually yell at them to focus on the boss after say 3(?) rounds.
Since the party already wiped out the cragmaw hideout, the bugbears had to hastily assemble young gobs, visibly smaller than regular gobs. They'll be minions with 1 hit point so they go down quick. They'll have lower attack bonuses and deal less damage too. That explains why the guards can handle them. But how many of them to start with? 20? And how should their stat block look? The party will be level 3 or possibly 4 by this point - fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric. No one has multi-attack. I really want to the impression of a town overrun. How many rounds of combat should I be targeting to keep it engaging? Ten rounds? More? Less? Obviously players will get a say in how long it actually takes.
Backdrop: Sildar will be fighting a Bugbear, perhaps also a couple of gobbo minions who are literally climbing on him as he fights (Sound balanced-ish? It needs to look like the fight could go either way), but his combat will be scripted to a close victory at a convenient moment - he'll shout down any assistance and tell the party to help the guards (as I believe he would). The combat is really just there to add to the background drama and explain why Sildar hasn't taken on the boss, and in turn why the bugbear hasn't smashed all the town guards. The players love Sildar, so it'll give me a chance to toy with their emotions in a deliciously evil manner. The guard group and the goblin group they are fighting will roll a single die each turn to see how many on each side go down. I figured something like 1d6 / 2 for how many gobbos drop, and a coin flip for whether a guard drops. The idea being to absolutely minimize playing with myself (phrasing!) rather than throwing dozens of dice for things not involving the party. Gobbos engaging the party will roll as normal.
The boss will use his "GET OVER HERE" and "YOU DIE WHEN I SAY YOU DIE" actions to keep the encounter slightly tilted against the town. At least 50% of the gobbos will initially stay engaged with the guards to minimize the use of AoE spells (or at least ensure severe collateral damage I hope the party won't accept). The guards aren't trained well enough to make proper disengage actions (a bonus I was going to give them had the players picked up on Sildar's hints that maybe the party could help out training the town guard), so if the players attempt to order them to run, there's a good chance they get whacked in the process. When the players clue-in and start focusing on the boss, the boss will use "FOCUS FIRE!" and "KILL!" to shift the majority of the gobbo focus onto the party. Their statblock should be nerfed enough that they don't do enough damage to cause too much trouble too quickly, while also giving the players an "oh crap" moment, and upping the ante a little to bring sharp focus onto the ticking clock to kill that boss.
When the boss dies, the remaining gobbos will try to flee. d4 + 2 out of 10 will be cleaned up by the guards as they run, plus however many the party choose to kill, the rest will escape. Inspired by their victory alongside the party, guards will yell "and don't come back", "there's more where that came from", etc... before their mood grows somber and turns to fallen comrades. If more than one guard fell, at least one will be dead outright, the rest unconscious and in need of medical assistance.
The boss will be carrying some loot, and wearing a helmet that probably won't fit the characters (detect magic or a short rest focusing on it will show this to be a helmet of resist charm). I'll grant inspiration in the following cases: If the cleric expends spells and/or healing potions on guards before healing the party. If the rogue's first thought is of his Aunt Quelline and making sure she and Carp are safe. If the noble fighter offers to train the commoners to protect themselves, or does something heroic in the fight to protect a commoner. If, after the fight, the wizard offers to teach some cantrips to a young recruit who, while very slight of build, is introduced as being 'sharp as a tack' and 'eager to help defend the town anyway he can'. And of course for any other deserving act that comes up that I didn't think of.
Final, and perhaps most important, question - does this sound like an enjoyable encounter for a group that has, until now, only had the preset LMoP encounters?
Sounds like a solid encounter. I think the one thing that really doesn't sound enjoyable is having Sildar's victory "scripted." If the players really care about him, they may want to rush to his defense...so give him a 50-50chance of dying, and thus a chance to save him. If he's scripted to win, the only "deliciously evil" thing you'll be doing is taking away the players' sense of agency and excitement that "anything can happen."
Sounds like a solid encounter. I think the one thing that really doesn't sound enjoyable is having Sildar's victory "scripted." If the players really care about him, they may want to rush to his defense...so give him a 50-50chance of dying, and thus a chance to save him. If he's scripted to win, the only "deliciously evil" thing you'll be doing is taking away the players' sense of agency and excitement that "anything can happen."
A good point. Maybe I'll roll that fight like it's a party fight, or even let one of the players roll (but not act) for Sildar. Sell the stakes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Me again! I swear all these questions are temporary, I'm learning just as fast as I can. This is long one.
As I alluded in a previous post, I want my party to face some consequences after wiping out the Redbrands and burning down Tresendar Manor. I have a good sketch in my head of how I want to shape the encounter, but insufficient experience to establish exact numbers and get the balance right. I'm hoping to draw from your collective experience to polish up what I hope is already a good idea.
Since it's intimated in the narrative that the Redbrands were kind of keeping order in the town, I think it makes sense for the local goblins to be emboldened now that their absence has been signaled far and wide by their hideout being razed to the ground. The adventurers are currently off handling Agatha's Lair, Old Owl Well, and Wyvern Tor. I'd like for them to return to Phandalin to be greeted by the sight of of a large raiding party of Goblin minions, led by a bugbear boss and a bugbear (or two?). Sildar and 4-6(?) freshly deputized town guards (really just citizens given swords, armor and a week of training) will be fighting them off as best they can. Ol' doomsayer Harbin wasn't so dumb afterall -
"You fools! You don't even know what you've done! The Redbrands were no saints, but for a price they protected the town! The burning mansion can be seen for miles around! Now we're going to be overrun by goblins and orcs!
"I hate adventurers! Wait, you're not adventurers. You're, you're... accomplices! You're arsonists! You're anarchists!"
- Harbin Wester, chiding the party last night, before Sildar calmed him. He's not a big fan.
I thought this could be a really fun use for Colville's action oriented goblin boss (in this case a bugbear) with the addition of charm immunity so the wizard can't just Suggest that he call all the gobbos off. (Aside - I've been watching tons of Colville's videos since you pointed me to the Wangrod defense, so many thanks for that.) I want to try to sell the idea that the town can handle gobbos, if only it weren't for this boss. The tide should be turned when the party realizes they need to focus fire on the boss. If they have a particularly bad case of the dumb that night, Sildar will eventually yell at them to focus on the boss after say 3(?) rounds.
Since the party already wiped out the cragmaw hideout, the bugbears had to hastily assemble young gobs, visibly smaller than regular gobs. They'll be minions with 1 hit point so they go down quick. They'll have lower attack bonuses and deal less damage too. That explains why the guards can handle them. But how many of them to start with? 20? And how should their stat block look? The party will be level 3 or possibly 4 by this point - fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric. No one has multi-attack. I really want to the impression of a town overrun. How many rounds of combat should I be targeting to keep it engaging? Ten rounds? More? Less? Obviously players will get a say in how long it actually takes.
Backdrop: Sildar will be fighting a Bugbear, perhaps also a couple of gobbo minions who are literally climbing on him as he fights (Sound balanced-ish? It needs to look like the fight could go either way), but his combat will be scripted to a close victory at a convenient moment - he'll shout down any assistance and tell the party to help the guards (as I believe he would). The combat is really just there to add to the background drama and explain why Sildar hasn't taken on the boss, and in turn why the bugbear hasn't smashed all the town guards. The players love Sildar, so it'll give me a chance to toy with their emotions in a deliciously evil manner. The guard group and the goblin group they are fighting will roll a single die each turn to see how many on each side go down. I figured something like 1d6 / 2 for how many gobbos drop, and a coin flip for whether a guard drops. The idea being to absolutely minimize playing with myself (phrasing!) rather than throwing dozens of dice for things not involving the party. Gobbos engaging the party will roll as normal.
The boss will use his "GET OVER HERE" and "YOU DIE WHEN I SAY YOU DIE" actions to keep the encounter slightly tilted against the town. At least 50% of the gobbos will initially stay engaged with the guards to minimize the use of AoE spells (or at least ensure severe collateral damage I hope the party won't accept). The guards aren't trained well enough to make proper disengage actions (a bonus I was going to give them had the players picked up on Sildar's hints that maybe the party could help out training the town guard), so if the players attempt to order them to run, there's a good chance they get whacked in the process. When the players clue-in and start focusing on the boss, the boss will use "FOCUS FIRE!" and "KILL!" to shift the majority of the gobbo focus onto the party. Their statblock should be nerfed enough that they don't do enough damage to cause too much trouble too quickly, while also giving the players an "oh crap" moment, and upping the ante a little to bring sharp focus onto the ticking clock to kill that boss.
When the boss dies, the remaining gobbos will try to flee. d4 + 2 out of 10 will be cleaned up by the guards as they run, plus however many the party choose to kill, the rest will escape. Inspired by their victory alongside the party, guards will yell "and don't come back", "there's more where that came from", etc... before their mood grows somber and turns to fallen comrades. If more than one guard fell, at least one will be dead outright, the rest unconscious and in need of medical assistance.
The boss will be carrying some loot, and wearing a helmet that probably won't fit the characters (detect magic or a short rest focusing on it will show this to be a helmet of resist charm). I'll grant inspiration in the following cases: If the cleric expends spells and/or healing potions on guards before healing the party. If the rogue's first thought is of his Aunt Quelline and making sure she and Carp are safe. If the noble fighter offers to train the commoners to protect themselves, or does something heroic in the fight to protect a commoner. If, after the fight, the wizard offers to teach some cantrips to a young recruit who, while very slight of build, is introduced as being 'sharp as a tack' and 'eager to help defend the town anyway he can'. And of course for any other deserving act that comes up that I didn't think of.
Final, and perhaps most important, question - does this sound like an enjoyable encounter for a group that has, until now, only had the preset LMoP encounters?
Sounds like a solid encounter. I think the one thing that really doesn't sound enjoyable is having Sildar's victory "scripted." If the players really care about him, they may want to rush to his defense...so give him a 50-50chance of dying, and thus a chance to save him. If he's scripted to win, the only "deliciously evil" thing you'll be doing is taking away the players' sense of agency and excitement that "anything can happen."
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
A good point. Maybe I'll roll that fight like it's a party fight, or even let one of the players roll (but not act) for Sildar. Sell the stakes.