I have a player who's doing a warlock with a fiend pact. She gave me the scenario for the pact, and then said I could make up the rest of what was going on. Essentially, her character was captured and tortured by cultists, and felt like something huge and old was watching him. Then he was offered help in exchange for the ability to escape, and took the help, and thus pact.
So I went lore-diving, and found Ghaunadaur to use for the big bad watcher. Creepy, the "elder eye," everything I needed. Uses Juiblex as an aspect, lord of slime, etc. His rituals even involve kidnapping and drugging sacrifices. He's perfect. And his demon aspect, Juiblex, has Zuggtmoy, lady of fungus, as an enemy. So I thought she'd make a great patron for my PC, has a vested interest in defeating her enemy/the god that uses him. However, my PC's ideas about their patron really contradict Zuggtmoy's appearance, and personality. And I know the player left it up to me, but I still don't want to disappoint her when I can tell she has some specific ideas about what her patron's like.
So long background for 2 questions:
1. Are there any good demons who would oppose an evil elder lord of slime? Preferably some that aren't outright evil, or can fake not being outright evil to gain the cooperation of a traumatized Warlock.
2. And failing that, should I just homebrew something and not try to create this from established lore. I really like using the two opposing demon lords... but I just don't think Zuggtmoy, as written, is going to be a satisfying reveal for my player.
you could look at it as an entity that is the polar opposite of Ghauanadaur (incidentally my favoured god of the drow panteon in previous editions), if Ghaunadaur is a slime god and represents ever chanigng states of being then maybe the being that made the pact with the player is someone like Primus the "god" of Mechanus who is very law orientated or some one like Lolth who is manipulating the PC to thwart the machinations of her old enemy. Another option would be Ellistrae who is a god of song, dance and moon light and is a CG entity.
A slightly more outside the box option, what if it was Ghauanadur making the pact? He did it to test his cultists abilities and has found them wanting, as a story point down the line maybe the PC encounters the cult to find them all devolved into mindless "zombies" that are being slowly eaten by slimes and oozes.
I have Ghaunadaur as a patron for an NPC in my current camapign, this is the bio for the NPC:
Concept: The Educated Fool. Born human Raised in temple (Acolyte) Ran Away and became petty thief (Rogue) Fell into sining on street corners as distraction for pick pockets (Bard) Turned over new leave and became bounty hunter (Ranger) Received Vision of ruined temple where raised and took up Priestly role (Cleric / Warlock) Sings to entertain and teach masses about the religion of Ghaunadaur (More Bard) Does not know Ghaunadaur is a Great Old One or that he has sold his soul. ****
Ghaunadaur: Drow god of slime, oozes and outcasts in d&d 3.5 Now Great Old One Chaotic Evil Deity/Entity currently using a different approach to gaining followers. It is giving power (level 1 cleric) to various mortals and portraying itself as a God of knowledge (think Haemous Mora in Elder Scrolls) and asking his chosen clerics to spread the word of his faith and the knowledge that he provides. If a level 1 cleric wishes to continue to advance in power, Ghaunadaur asks them to pledge themselves to his continued service and the cleric then advances to level 1 warlock and every time they wish to advance as a cleric from then on they gain a level of warlock. Clerics are not aware they have sold their souls and view themselves as clerics.
Religious Dogma: *All creatures have their place and all are fit to wield power. *Those who hunt weed out the weak and strengthen the stock of all. *Those who rebel or who walk apart find new ways and try new things and do most to advance their races. *Creatures of power best house the energy of life, which Ghaunadaur reveres and represents.
The Following is currently missing from its teaching: *Make sacrifices to Ghaunadaur *Persuade others to sacrifice themselves to Ghaunadaur *Further knowledge and fear of Ghaunadaur *In the end give yourself to Ghaunadaur in unresisting self-sacrifice. *Convert all beings to the worship of Ghaunadaur. *Slay all clergy of other faiths, plundering their temples and holdings for wealth to better your own lot and to further the worship of Ghaunadaur.
The missing teachings are taught in part or in whole to Evil followers once they have begun the Cleric path or those of its followers that are near death.
In this way it is gaining souls and power form those that worship it in order to establish itself as a God again.
A common ruse it employs in order to rid an area of other faiths is to spawn oozes or slimes in or near a sacred site or particularly useful area and then dispatch one of its clerics to investigate. The cleric will either kill the ooze/slime and the locals will rejoice in the clerics success and may even then follow the same tenets or the cleric will die in which case Ghaunadaur gets the clerics soul. If the cleric survives but does not vanquish the ooze or slime then Ghaunadaur instructs them to remain in the area as penance until such time as the slime or ooze is vanquished. This often means the clerics start hiring adventurers to clear the area of the oozes or slimes and if they die then Ghaunadaur gets power form their deaths at the hands of the oozes and slimes or the adventurers succeed and the local populace rejoice that the cleric stayed in the area and paid for the adventurers to end the threat.
And as a devil she is naturally opposed to all demon princes, thanks to the Blood War.
I like this. I know my player had a male patron in her head, and she seems fairly attached to this, but I can always run it as an illusion. And GDI the gender thing is ruining all my best patron ideas so eventually my pc's just gonna have to deal. lol.
I do think a devil probably would make the most sense. I wasn't necessarily fond of the strict rules structure of the nine hells, but I think if I have something as chaotic as Ghaunadaur I probably need something that stark to oppose it. And it would be a fun setting to drag my party into eventually, when they're not so squishy.
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I have a player who's doing a warlock with a fiend pact. She gave me the scenario for the pact, and then said I could make up the rest of what was going on. Essentially, her character was captured and tortured by cultists, and felt like something huge and old was watching him. Then he was offered help in exchange for the ability to escape, and took the help, and thus pact.
So I went lore-diving, and found Ghaunadaur to use for the big bad watcher. Creepy, the "elder eye," everything I needed. Uses Juiblex as an aspect, lord of slime, etc. His rituals even involve kidnapping and drugging sacrifices. He's perfect. And his demon aspect, Juiblex, has Zuggtmoy, lady of fungus, as an enemy. So I thought she'd make a great patron for my PC, has a vested interest in defeating her enemy/the god that uses him. However, my PC's ideas about their patron really contradict Zuggtmoy's appearance, and personality. And I know the player left it up to me, but I still don't want to disappoint her when I can tell she has some specific ideas about what her patron's like.
So long background for 2 questions:
1. Are there any good demons who would oppose an evil elder lord of slime? Preferably some that aren't outright evil, or can fake not being outright evil to gain the cooperation of a traumatized Warlock.
2. And failing that, should I just homebrew something and not try to create this from established lore. I really like using the two opposing demon lords... but I just don't think Zuggtmoy, as written, is going to be a satisfying reveal for my player.
Maybe Glasya would be a nice patron?
She is not a demon, but she's a fiend, really old, manipulative and definitely strong enough to free her servants from just about any demon:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Glasya
And as a devil she is naturally opposed to all demon princes, thanks to the Blood War.
you could look at it as an entity that is the polar opposite of Ghauanadaur (incidentally my favoured god of the drow panteon in previous editions), if Ghaunadaur is a slime god and represents ever chanigng states of being then maybe the being that made the pact with the player is someone like Primus the "god" of Mechanus who is very law orientated or some one like Lolth who is manipulating the PC to thwart the machinations of her old enemy. Another option would be Ellistrae who is a god of song, dance and moon light and is a CG entity.
A slightly more outside the box option, what if it was Ghauanadur making the pact? He did it to test his cultists abilities and has found them wanting, as a story point down the line maybe the PC encounters the cult to find them all devolved into mindless "zombies" that are being slowly eaten by slimes and oozes.
I have Ghaunadaur as a patron for an NPC in my current camapign, this is the bio for the NPC:
Concept: The Educated Fool.
Born human
Raised in temple (Acolyte)
Ran Away and became petty thief (Rogue)
Fell into sining on street corners as distraction for pick pockets (Bard)
Turned over new leave and became bounty hunter (Ranger)
Received Vision of ruined temple where raised and took up Priestly role (Cleric / Warlock)
Sings to entertain and teach masses about the religion of Ghaunadaur (More Bard)
Does not know Ghaunadaur is a Great Old One or that he has sold his soul.
****
Ghaunadaur:
Drow god of slime, oozes and outcasts in d&d 3.5
Now Great Old One
Chaotic Evil Deity/Entity currently using a different approach to gaining followers.
It is giving power (level 1 cleric) to various mortals and portraying itself as a God of knowledge (think Haemous Mora in Elder Scrolls) and asking his chosen clerics to spread the word of his faith and the knowledge that he provides.
If a level 1 cleric wishes to continue to advance in power, Ghaunadaur asks them to pledge themselves to his continued service and the cleric then advances to level 1 warlock and every time they wish to advance as a cleric from then on they gain a level of warlock. Clerics are not aware they have sold their souls and view themselves as clerics.
Religious Dogma:
*All creatures have their place and all are fit to wield power.
*Those who hunt weed out the weak and strengthen the stock of all.
*Those who rebel or who walk apart find new ways and try new things and do most to advance their races.
*Creatures of power best house the energy of life, which Ghaunadaur reveres and represents.
The Following is currently missing from its teaching:
*Make sacrifices to Ghaunadaur
*Persuade others to sacrifice themselves to Ghaunadaur
*Further knowledge and fear of Ghaunadaur
*In the end give yourself to Ghaunadaur in unresisting self-sacrifice.
*Convert all beings to the worship of Ghaunadaur.
*Slay all clergy of other faiths, plundering their temples and holdings for wealth to better your own lot and to further the worship of Ghaunadaur.
The missing teachings are taught in part or in whole to Evil followers once they have begun the Cleric path or those of its followers that are near death.
In this way it is gaining souls and power form those that worship it in order to establish itself as a God again.
A common ruse it employs in order to rid an area of other faiths is to spawn oozes or slimes in or near a sacred site or particularly useful area and then dispatch one of its clerics to investigate. The cleric will either kill the ooze/slime and the locals will rejoice in the clerics success and may even then follow the same tenets or the cleric will die in which case Ghaunadaur gets the clerics soul. If the cleric survives but does not vanquish the ooze or slime then Ghaunadaur instructs them to remain in the area as penance until such time as the slime or ooze is vanquished. This often means the clerics start hiring adventurers to clear the area of the oozes or slimes and if they die then Ghaunadaur gets power form their deaths at the hands of the oozes and slimes or the adventurers succeed and the local populace rejoice that the cleric stayed in the area and paid for the adventurers to end the threat.
I like this. I know my player had a male patron in her head, and she seems fairly attached to this, but I can always run it as an illusion. And GDI the gender thing is ruining all my best patron ideas so eventually my pc's just gonna have to deal. lol.
I do think a devil probably would make the most sense. I wasn't necessarily fond of the strict rules structure of the nine hells, but I think if I have something as chaotic as Ghaunadaur I probably need something that stark to oppose it. And it would be a fun setting to drag my party into eventually, when they're not so squishy.