A good way to go is have non-binary ability check outcomes. E.g. 20+, it takes one action. You need 3 15+ in a row to unlock it. Or 6 10+ in a row.
Is this realistic or balanced? Meh. To me it's more interesting narratively. When you've succeeded on two 15+ in a row, your party will be on the edge of their seats for the third roll.
A good way to go is have non-binary ability check outcomes. E.g. 20+, it takes one action. You need 3 15+ in a row to unlock it. Or 6 10+ in a row.
Is this realistic or balanced? Meh. To me it's more interesting narratively. When you've succeeded on two 15+ in a row, your party will be on the edge of their seats for the third roll.
Locks in the main are speed bumps, they are rarely important to the big picture or the narrative. Generally they are there because it makes sense for them to be there rather than because they are a major part in the overall story. Front door lock, jail cell lock, safe lock, and so on. When it is important then I have no issue with making it more exciting, adding in booby traps, poison needles etc. otherwise you are actually reducing the narrative. Every time you ask for dice rolls you break story immersion, so the less rolls the better. If someone has a skill level high enough that they should be able to do something for example a DC 14 lock with a 9 base skill - just let them do it without asking for a roll. It keeps the game moving, keeps the story alive and the players engaged. It's a bit like the taking 10 or 20 in Pathfinder.
But failing to open a locked door due to a really unfortunate dice roll when they should have opened it with their eyes closed does not advance anything.
Sure it does. They have to be inventive, not just fall back on the same skill that always works for them. Can they break down the door? Can they impersonate a guard and get let in?
But if you designed an adventure with only one solution, then do not roll for lock picking.
There should always be more than one solution otherwise when it goes wrong the whole game stalls. But as DM my job is to keep the tempo going, the game has to flow and engage the players, constantly pausing to ask them to make dice rolls for things that they could do in their sleep will break that engagement and ultimately break immersion in my opinion. So I generally only ask for dice rolls when it is a contested roll, or when it is important for the narrative, or in combat.
I would personally say that attempting to pick a lock is 1 action, or a bonus action with Fast Hands. This doesn't mean they automatically succeed on that action (just as you don't automatically hit on attack), nor does it mean the DM can't make it a high DC, impose disadvantage, or ask for multiple successes, depending on how difficult the lock is to pick and the situation in which this is taking place.
So, if the party is under attack from a couple of guards, the rest of the party is shielding the rogue, and the lock is "ordinary". Allow a DC10 check as an action/bonus action, success gets you through. More difficult lock, up the DC. If they have Fast Hands, allow a check on both action and bonus action until they succeed. If they have creatures actually attacking the rogue (especially melee), impose disadvantage, and maybe give advantage if the lock is of a type the rogue is familiar with. If it is a really secure, complicated lock, ask for several successes. If it is a really simple lock, just grant automatic success (but still taking an action/bonus action to complete).
This is again where having a net requirement for the lock be relevant.
Rolls are (to me at least) important, particularly if there could be enemies behind the locked door.
I would have it as a forgone conclusion that the lock is going to be picked by the guy who picks locks, but I would have them roll to determine how quickly and quietly they do so - roll low and it will take a lot of time, roll high and it's really quick, roll a 1 and it's noisy. The goal being to create the narrative, so if there are guards patrolling who have been avoided, rolling low might make it tense as to whether the guards come back.
In combat time is more measured, so giving a "must roll a total of 25" for a lock means you would expect someone proficient to be able to do it in 2 turns max, during which other things happen. To me this is far better than "must roll a 30+" and having them just roll & roll until they get it, which is very boring and frustrating, and adds no tension!
If there's absolutely no consequence to time or noise (being asked by the mayor to pick the lock on a safe because he shut his key inside) then just allow them to do it. But if you can think of any consequence, then you should include a roll.
Rolls are (to me at least) important, particularly if there could be enemies behind the locked door.
Would those enemies still be there whether the player actually picked up dice and physically rolled or not? The dice roll makes no difference, if there are enemies waiting behind the door to ambush the characters then they are there whether the players roll the dice or the DM says they are good enough to open it without rolling the dice.
Would those enemies still be there whether the player actually picked up dice and physically rolled or not?
I guess that, if you managed to pick it quickly and quietly, the enemies may not notice, so the party may get surprise, whereas if it takes a while and/or is noisy, the enemies may have time to prepare and may get surprise over the party.
Would those enemies still be there whether the player actually picked up dice and physically rolled or not?
I guess that, if you managed to pick it quickly and quietly, the enemies may not notice, so the party may get surprise, whereas if it takes a while and/or is noisy, the enemies may have time to prepare and may get surprise over the party.
Exactly this.
I view dice rolls as being a means to determine an outcome - if the players can get through a door by any means without consequence (a random door appears in the desert which can only be activated as a portal by a specific magic the party doesn't have, but is otherwise a fully functional door) then I'd just narrate through it - "you pick the lock" or "you kick the door down" or "you hack through the door with your axe", because whichever you pick is irrelevant.
If it's important that you sneak in through the door because there are enemies lazing around inside who you can get the jump on then a roll is important, because it determines whether they sneak in well or they drop their tools which scatter everywhere noisily and they curse loudly without thinking. Same for if they try to kick the door in - if they do it in one kick, they get surprise. If it takes 2 kicks, that first loud noise will have the enemies up and armed, and maybe even with arrows trained on the door. So you roll to find out.
What I'd never do is make a door which they could reasonably pick or kick down become impassable because they keep rolling too low - eventually they will batter it down or learn the lock well enough to pick it - but how quickly and efficiently they do it will have consequences.
Would those enemies still be there whether the player actually picked up dice and physically rolled or not?
I guess that, if you managed to pick it quickly and quietly, the enemies may not notice, so the party may get surprise, whereas if it takes a while and/or is noisy, the enemies may have time to prepare and may get surprise over the party.
The players act of dice rolling doesn't make the character pick the lock quieter or louder. Unless you are saying that you give crits and fumble on skill checks which is homebrew rather than RAW. To be a little more specific - I make players roll if the characters have a low skill or are unlikely to know or do something, but if their skill is high enough that they are going to do it on all bar an unlucky roll then I don't see the point.It just wastes time. If you have a skill of 7 and the DC is 10 then what's the point of rolling?
It depends on the state of the game at that point. If there is likely to no chance of failure, and/or little to no consequence attached to that failure, then there is no point rolling.
However, if you consider that there may be a major consequence to a failure, it would be worth rolling even if the chance of failure is low. If the player would need to roll a 1 (not using critical fumble/failure rules, just from DC and modifiers) to fail, but the consequence of that failure was that enemies can sound an alarm to call in reinforcements, or can prepare a trap or ambush, then I'd call for the roll. It probably wouldn't make a difference, but there's a 5% chance it would make a significant difference.
watch a few lockpickinglawyers on youtube and you'll see how stupidly easy it is to pick 99.9% of locks if you know what you're doing (although i'd say he has expertise in lockpicking tools, not just proficiency (or even Crazy Master Expert if there were such a thing in D&D)....but that's still with two hands, concentration, and being still enough to feel what's going on.
To keep it simple, I'd say anyone attacking you until your next turn has advantage and it only takes your one action.
i personally like a concentration idea so getting hit would require a concentration check, but that requires the picking to take at least two turns. like others have said unless its a huge story point, why bother.
watch a few lockpickinglawyers on youtube and you'll see how stupidly easy it is to pick 99.9% of locks if you know what you're doing (although i'd say he has expertise in lockpicking tools, not just proficiency (or even Crazy Master Expert if there were such a thing in D&D)....but that's still with two hands, concentration, and being still enough to feel what's going on.
Even looking at that, the random selection of videos I watched didn't show many of them opened in 6 seconds or less. Most were more than 20 seconds, so 3-4 rounds or more, and that's a "Crazy Master Expert".
watch a few lockpickinglawyers on youtube and you'll see how stupidly easy it is to pick 99.9% of locks if you know what you're doing (although i'd say he has expertise in lockpicking tools, not just proficiency (or even Crazy Master Expert if there were such a thing in D&D)....but that's still with two hands, concentration, and being still enough to feel what's going on.
Even looking at that, the random selection of videos I watched didn't show many of them opened in 6 seconds or less. Most were more than 20 seconds, so 3-4 rounds or more, and that's a "Crazy Master Expert".
I agree - in a frantic situation, it is likely that it would take more than 6 seconds to get the key into a lock and turn it. If it's a worn lock, it can take a surprisingly long time to get the key to catch properly - so well over 1 round, even with the key!
I think most of us are agreeing that the important part is that the time and/or difficulty should be disregarded if there are no consequences - one roll or a hundred, doesn't matter if there are no time constraints - just let them pick the lock and move on!
Even looking at that, the random selection of videos I watched didn't show many of them opened in 6 seconds or less. Most were more than 20 seconds, so 3-4 rounds or more, and that's a "Crazy Master Expert".
keep in mind in ALL of those, he's taking the audience through what he's doing. i suspect he could do the vast majority of those picks in 1/2 the time. and the boxes, gun locks, trailer hitches, or weird locks wouldn't be on 99.9% of doors in D&D. 1/2 of my 'crazy master expert' title is that he can look at a lock and know what tool to use...two cases in point that take him only a bonus action:
Even looking at that, the random selection of videos I watched didn't show many of them opened in 6 seconds or less. Most were more than 20 seconds, so 3-4 rounds or more, and that's a "Crazy Master Expert".
keep in mind in ALL of those, he's taking the audience through what he's doing. i suspect he could do the vast majority of those picks in 1/2 the time. and the boxes, gun locks, trailer hitches, or weird locks wouldn't be on 99.9% of doors in D&D. 1/2 of my 'crazy master expert' title is that he can look at a lock and know what tool to use...two cases in point that take him only a bonus action:
First one, you can clearly see that he's looking at the shape of the key before each lock, so would probably take longer if he couldn't base his approach off the key shape.
Second one, yeah, that's definitely going to be quick!
I think most of us are agreeing that the important part is that the time and/or difficulty should be disregarded if there are no consequences - one roll or a hundred, doesn't matter if there are no time constraints - just let them pick the lock and move on!
Exactly, if they are trying to break into a lockbox where the lock is a really high quality, and there is a poison needle trap in the lock and there is some highly valuable treasure inside - make em roll. If they are being chased by guards and need to get through a locked door to safety - make em roll. Trapped in a rapidly flooding tunnel and the only way out is a locked door - roll and hope. But if it's just a random door in a random building or dungeon, and there is nothing that will happen if it takes 6 seconds or 60 seconds then don't bother - assuming they have the skill. Even if they are in combat, let the rogue do it if he isn't actively being attacked.
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A good way to go is have non-binary ability check outcomes. E.g. 20+, it takes one action. You need 3 15+ in a row to unlock it. Or 6 10+ in a row.
Is this realistic or balanced? Meh. To me it's more interesting narratively. When you've succeeded on two 15+ in a row, your party will be on the edge of their seats for the third roll.
Locks in the main are speed bumps, they are rarely important to the big picture or the narrative. Generally they are there because it makes sense for them to be there rather than because they are a major part in the overall story. Front door lock, jail cell lock, safe lock, and so on. When it is important then I have no issue with making it more exciting, adding in booby traps, poison needles etc. otherwise you are actually reducing the narrative. Every time you ask for dice rolls you break story immersion, so the less rolls the better. If someone has a skill level high enough that they should be able to do something for example a DC 14 lock with a 9 base skill - just let them do it without asking for a roll. It keeps the game moving, keeps the story alive and the players engaged. It's a bit like the taking 10 or 20 in Pathfinder.
Actually, ups and downs, unexpected failures, and lucky breaks are great for narrative. Not knowing what's on the next page is what drives narrative.
But failing to open a locked door due to a really unfortunate dice roll when they should have opened it with their eyes closed does not advance anything.
Sure it does. They have to be inventive, not just fall back on the same skill that always works for them. Can they break down the door? Can they impersonate a guard and get let in?
But if you designed an adventure with only one solution, then do not roll for lock picking.
There should always be more than one solution otherwise when it goes wrong the whole game stalls. But as DM my job is to keep the tempo going, the game has to flow and engage the players, constantly pausing to ask them to make dice rolls for things that they could do in their sleep will break that engagement and ultimately break immersion in my opinion. So I generally only ask for dice rolls when it is a contested roll, or when it is important for the narrative, or in combat.
I would personally say that attempting to pick a lock is 1 action, or a bonus action with Fast Hands. This doesn't mean they automatically succeed on that action (just as you don't automatically hit on attack), nor does it mean the DM can't make it a high DC, impose disadvantage, or ask for multiple successes, depending on how difficult the lock is to pick and the situation in which this is taking place.
So, if the party is under attack from a couple of guards, the rest of the party is shielding the rogue, and the lock is "ordinary". Allow a DC10 check as an action/bonus action, success gets you through. More difficult lock, up the DC. If they have Fast Hands, allow a check on both action and bonus action until they succeed. If they have creatures actually attacking the rogue (especially melee), impose disadvantage, and maybe give advantage if the lock is of a type the rogue is familiar with. If it is a really secure, complicated lock, ask for several successes. If it is a really simple lock, just grant automatic success (but still taking an action/bonus action to complete).
This is again where having a net requirement for the lock be relevant.
Rolls are (to me at least) important, particularly if there could be enemies behind the locked door.
I would have it as a forgone conclusion that the lock is going to be picked by the guy who picks locks, but I would have them roll to determine how quickly and quietly they do so - roll low and it will take a lot of time, roll high and it's really quick, roll a 1 and it's noisy. The goal being to create the narrative, so if there are guards patrolling who have been avoided, rolling low might make it tense as to whether the guards come back.
In combat time is more measured, so giving a "must roll a total of 25" for a lock means you would expect someone proficient to be able to do it in 2 turns max, during which other things happen. To me this is far better than "must roll a 30+" and having them just roll & roll until they get it, which is very boring and frustrating, and adds no tension!
If there's absolutely no consequence to time or noise (being asked by the mayor to pick the lock on a safe because he shut his key inside) then just allow them to do it. But if you can think of any consequence, then you should include a roll.
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Would those enemies still be there whether the player actually picked up dice and physically rolled or not? The dice roll makes no difference, if there are enemies waiting behind the door to ambush the characters then they are there whether the players roll the dice or the DM says they are good enough to open it without rolling the dice.
I guess that, if you managed to pick it quickly and quietly, the enemies may not notice, so the party may get surprise, whereas if it takes a while and/or is noisy, the enemies may have time to prepare and may get surprise over the party.
Exactly this.
I view dice rolls as being a means to determine an outcome - if the players can get through a door by any means without consequence (a random door appears in the desert which can only be activated as a portal by a specific magic the party doesn't have, but is otherwise a fully functional door) then I'd just narrate through it - "you pick the lock" or "you kick the door down" or "you hack through the door with your axe", because whichever you pick is irrelevant.
If it's important that you sneak in through the door because there are enemies lazing around inside who you can get the jump on then a roll is important, because it determines whether they sneak in well or they drop their tools which scatter everywhere noisily and they curse loudly without thinking. Same for if they try to kick the door in - if they do it in one kick, they get surprise. If it takes 2 kicks, that first loud noise will have the enemies up and armed, and maybe even with arrows trained on the door. So you roll to find out.
What I'd never do is make a door which they could reasonably pick or kick down become impassable because they keep rolling too low - eventually they will batter it down or learn the lock well enough to pick it - but how quickly and efficiently they do it will have consequences.
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The players act of dice rolling doesn't make the character pick the lock quieter or louder. Unless you are saying that you give crits and fumble on skill checks which is homebrew rather than RAW. To be a little more specific - I make players roll if the characters have a low skill or are unlikely to know or do something, but if their skill is high enough that they are going to do it on all bar an unlucky roll then I don't see the point.It just wastes time. If you have a skill of 7 and the DC is 10 then what's the point of rolling?
It depends on the state of the game at that point. If there is likely to no chance of failure, and/or little to no consequence attached to that failure, then there is no point rolling.
However, if you consider that there may be a major consequence to a failure, it would be worth rolling even if the chance of failure is low. If the player would need to roll a 1 (not using critical fumble/failure rules, just from DC and modifiers) to fail, but the consequence of that failure was that enemies can sound an alarm to call in reinforcements, or can prepare a trap or ambush, then I'd call for the roll. It probably wouldn't make a difference, but there's a 5% chance it would make a significant difference.
watch a few lockpickinglawyers on youtube and you'll see how stupidly easy it is to pick 99.9% of locks if you know what you're doing (although i'd say he has expertise in lockpicking tools, not just proficiency (or even Crazy Master Expert if there were such a thing in D&D)....but that's still with two hands, concentration, and being still enough to feel what's going on.
To keep it simple, I'd say anyone attacking you until your next turn has advantage and it only takes your one action.
i personally like a concentration idea so getting hit would require a concentration check, but that requires the picking to take at least two turns. like others have said unless its a huge story point, why bother.
imo
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I myself know how to pick locks, and it takes about 10 rounds.
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Even looking at that, the random selection of videos I watched didn't show many of them opened in 6 seconds or less. Most were more than 20 seconds, so 3-4 rounds or more, and that's a "Crazy Master Expert".
I agree - in a frantic situation, it is likely that it would take more than 6 seconds to get the key into a lock and turn it. If it's a worn lock, it can take a surprisingly long time to get the key to catch properly - so well over 1 round, even with the key!
I think most of us are agreeing that the important part is that the time and/or difficulty should be disregarded if there are no consequences - one roll or a hundred, doesn't matter if there are no time constraints - just let them pick the lock and move on!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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keep in mind in ALL of those, he's taking the audience through what he's doing. i suspect he could do the vast majority of those picks in 1/2 the time. and the boxes, gun locks, trailer hitches, or weird locks wouldn't be on 99.9% of doors in D&D. 1/2 of my 'crazy master expert' title is that he can look at a lock and know what tool to use...two cases in point that take him only a bonus action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxmmwWwW6TY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1SPptLs7W4
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
First one, you can clearly see that he's looking at the shape of the key before each lock, so would probably take longer if he couldn't base his approach off the key shape.
Second one, yeah, that's definitely going to be quick!
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I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Exactly, if they are trying to break into a lockbox where the lock is a really high quality, and there is a poison needle trap in the lock and there is some highly valuable treasure inside - make em roll. If they are being chased by guards and need to get through a locked door to safety - make em roll. Trapped in a rapidly flooding tunnel and the only way out is a locked door - roll and hope. But if it's just a random door in a random building or dungeon, and there is nothing that will happen if it takes 6 seconds or 60 seconds then don't bother - assuming they have the skill. Even if they are in combat, let the rogue do it if he isn't actively being attacked.