Hi, the Zombie stat block says that their Undead Fortitude allows them to fall to 1 hit point instead of 0 hit points when damage is taken.
Does that mean that if damage taken that reduces them to exactly 0? Or is it if they take damage that reduces them to below 0?
Also, does it happen immediately, or when their next turn occurs?
Depending on how you read it, there's a good chance that a single zombie could keep coming back to life (I plan to do this when the players least suspect it mwu ha ha ha). I got thinking about this when watching Dungeon Dudes on Necromancy, if a level 10 player has 40 zombies, and they keep coming back to life, that could be problematic!
My wife has a druid-necromancer character, and one of my misunderstood villains is slowly raising an army of the dead (including dragons).
Does that mean that if damage taken that reduces them to exactly 0? Or is it if they take damage that reduces them to below 0?
There's no such thing as negative HP, so there's no difference between the two.
Also, does it happen immediately, or when their next turn occurs?
The effect of the trait happens any time the zombie would be reduced to 0 HP, i.e. immediately. If they acquired 1 HP at the start of their next turn, the trait would say so. Also note that it says they fall to 1 HP instead of 0 HP, so there can't be a delay since they're not going to drop to 0 HP in the first place.
Depending on how you read it, there's a good chance that a single zombie could keep coming back to life (I plan to do this when the players least suspect it mwu ha ha ha).
Yes, assuming it's only taking small amounts of damage at a time. If it takes at least 19 damage all at once it's impossible for it to succeed on the saving throw, and it can still be killed instantly through massive damage (taking their current HP + maximum HP all at once.) And of course a cleric or any character with access to Sacred Flame or another source of at will radiant damage (e.g. the Way of the Sun Soul's radiant sun bolt) will have no trouble putting a zombie down for good.
So in some ways, yes, for low level adventurers and common NPCs, zombies can be tough to kill. For higher level adventurers, all it takes is a Fireball to wipe out large groups of zombies.
The only revive when they succeed on the Con saving throw. If someone did average damage with a longsword ( 4.5 - so 5 ), so a DC of 10, with a +3 Con bonus, so 70% of of the time. If someone has a +3 to damage, that goes down to 55% of the time. If it's radiant damage, or a critical hit, no Undead Fortitude at all.
They don't heal back up to 1hp, they only drop down to 1 HP, so it's an instantaneous effect. It's not regeneration.
Once they are actually put down ( fail a save, someone crits and takes them down, someone uses a radiant spell attack ), that's it: they're dead.
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Man just last night a party of 3rd and 4th level characters fought three ogre zombies in an open field. I'll be damned if one of those ogres just would not stay dead. He was rolling 17 CON saves and stuff and it took forever to put him down and keep him down. Undead fortitude is no joke.
Sorry to clarify the first point, I meant when the zombie has been "killed", or technically "knocked unconscious", if you wanted to treat a creature like you would a player character or even NPC.
In my head it makes sense that the damage taken when at 0 hp translates to "negative hp", even if the creature wouldn't survive being attacked three times when in this state, even with 1 dmg per attack.
The zombie could be "unconscious", and start death saving throws just like a character.
EDIT: I get it now, when I read that rule below I assumed that you had a negative hp that you died when it added up to your maximum hp, not that it's only damage you take from an attack, and each attack adds to a death fail.
I now get tracking hp when in this state is pointless (unless for permanent disfigurement?), and it kind of goes into the territory of corpse mutilation, or therapeutic destruction, depending on the encounter...
Damage at 0 Hit Points. If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death.
This is obviously not something you'd want to track at a large scale, but for something more sinister or realistic that you'd use once or twice to really threaten the party.
EDIT: I get it now, when I read that rule below I assumed that you had a negative hp that you died when it added up to your maximum hp, not that it's only damage you take from an attack, and each attack adds to a death fail.
I now get tracking hp when in this state is pointless (unless for permanent disfigurement?), and it kind of goes into the territory of corpse mutilation, or therapeutic destruction, depending on the encounter...
The DMG already has an optional rule for injuries, which the DM can apply in whatever circumstances they deem appropriate for their table (e.g. dropping to 0, failing a death save by 5 or more, taking a critical hit.)
HP doesn't measure how damaged your body is, it's how much stamina, luck, and plot armor you have left before you receive a deadly wound. You can break a leg, take a long rest, be back at full HP, and your leg will still be broken if you haven't been healed it with magic.
I want to caution you. Please don't read this. It's too tragic. But if you choose to continue anyway... you do so at your own risk.
I wanted to change things of for my player(s) who have memorized statistics in the M.M. so I handcrafted with careful etchings (spontaneously pulled from my..) Circus Zombies. Freeks, Geeks, and Entertainer who have a savage bite that infects players making their veins turns black on a failed saving throw. The Zombies, and the infection are severely slowed by cold. They have a Size Large Clown Zombie who tells terrible jokes. "Why do elves have pointed ears? There needs to be a point to elves somewhere." (Thank you Ravenloft publications). After each joke a player makes a wisdom saving throw or suffer the effects of confusion.
Players wated to be safe and burned all the bodies. That's when they discover destroying the body doesn't kill them. It immobilizes them. The severed head was still trying to bite them.
I reveled in no certain terms (aka remembered a horror film I watched years ago) and shared with a new player joining us as a townsfolk hero that the smoke fumes infected live stock and farmers/ranchers are putting down cows, sheep, horses, etc who are now ravenous flesh eating heard animals. "You see a bull covered in blood and organs feasting among a field littered with festering cow carcass.
I feel like I need some kind of Evil Circus Master in the adventure.
If you're trying to beat up zombies with melee weapons, the average damage required is around 35. On the other hand, zombies have AC 8. If you want to be really annoying, have zombified npcs in ring mail.
Pantagruel999 that's a lot of chain mail to hand to my players.
Ring mail is 30 gp for weight 40 lb, I predict PCs would leave it behind to rot unless they had a convenient cart and nothing with a better ratio of value to weight.
If you're trying to beat up zombies with melee weapons, the average damage required is around 35. On the other hand, zombies have AC 8. If you want to be really annoying, have zombified npcs in ring mail.
The problem is they're not going to be proficient with that armor, which is going to cripple every roll they make with strength or dexterity including their slam attack and grapple or shove attempts.
The problem is they're not going to be proficient with that armor, which is going to cripple every roll they make with strength or dexterity including their slam attack and grapple or shove attempts.
Depends what you zombified, it looks like they retain the proficiencies they had in life. If you turn a bunch of Hobgoblins into zombies, you'll get a bunch of zombies wearing chain and shield.
They'll certainly be wearing chain mail and a shield, but they won't be proficient with it. The only thing a zombie retains from its former life is the languages it spoke, and the Monster Manual's description makes it clear their mental faculties are very limited.
You could easily make a case for a skeleton being proficient with armor, but then you lose Undead Fortitude.
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Hi, the Zombie stat block says that their Undead Fortitude allows them to fall to 1 hit point instead of 0 hit points when damage is taken.
Does that mean that if damage taken that reduces them to exactly 0? Or is it if they take damage that reduces them to below 0?
Also, does it happen immediately, or when their next turn occurs?
Depending on how you read it, there's a good chance that a single zombie could keep coming back to life (I plan to do this when the players least suspect it mwu ha ha ha). I got thinking about this when watching Dungeon Dudes on Necromancy, if a level 10 player has 40 zombies, and they keep coming back to life, that could be problematic!
My wife has a druid-necromancer character, and one of my misunderstood villains is slowly raising an army of the dead (including dragons).
There's no such thing as negative HP, so there's no difference between the two.
The effect of the trait happens any time the zombie would be reduced to 0 HP, i.e. immediately. If they acquired 1 HP at the start of their next turn, the trait would say so. Also note that it says they fall to 1 HP instead of 0 HP, so there can't be a delay since they're not going to drop to 0 HP in the first place.
Yes, assuming it's only taking small amounts of damage at a time. If it takes at least 19 damage all at once it's impossible for it to succeed on the saving throw, and it can still be killed instantly through massive damage (taking their current HP + maximum HP all at once.) And of course a cleric or any character with access to Sacred Flame or another source of at will radiant damage (e.g. the Way of the Sun Soul's radiant sun bolt) will have no trouble putting a zombie down for good.
So in some ways, yes, for low level adventurers and common NPCs, zombies can be tough to kill. For higher level adventurers, all it takes is a Fireball to wipe out large groups of zombies.
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The only revive when they succeed on the Con saving throw. If someone did average damage with a longsword ( 4.5 - so 5 ), so a DC of 10, with a +3 Con bonus, so 70% of of the time. If someone has a +3 to damage, that goes down to 55% of the time. If it's radiant damage, or a critical hit, no Undead Fortitude at all.
They don't heal back up to 1hp, they only drop down to 1 HP, so it's an instantaneous effect. It's not regeneration.
Once they are actually put down ( fail a save, someone crits and takes them down, someone uses a radiant spell attack ), that's it: they're dead.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Man just last night a party of 3rd and 4th level characters fought three ogre zombies in an open field. I'll be damned if one of those ogres just would not stay dead. He was rolling 17 CON saves and stuff and it took forever to put him down and keep him down. Undead fortitude is no joke.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yeah, Zombies are fun.
Another fun enemy is the Nilbog from Volo's guide. Similar but even better ability. Most fun with one nilbog surrounded by regular goblins.
Sorry to clarify the first point, I meant when the zombie has been "killed", or technically "knocked unconscious", if you wanted to treat a creature like you would a player character or even NPC.In my head it makes sense that the damage taken when at 0 hp translates to "negative hp", even if the creature wouldn't survive being attacked three times when in this state, even with 1 dmg per attack.The zombie could be "unconscious", and start death saving throws just like a character.
EDIT: I get it now, when I read that rule below I assumed that you had a negative hp that you died when it added up to your maximum hp, not that it's only damage you take from an attack, and each attack adds to a death fail.
I now get tracking hp when in this state is pointless (unless for permanent disfigurement?), and it kind of goes into the territory of corpse mutilation, or therapeutic destruction, depending on the encounter...
This is obviously not something you'd want to track at a large scale, but for something more sinister or realistic that you'd use once or twice to really threaten the party.
The DMG already has an optional rule for injuries, which the DM can apply in whatever circumstances they deem appropriate for their table (e.g. dropping to 0, failing a death save by 5 or more, taking a critical hit.)
HP doesn't measure how damaged your body is, it's how much stamina, luck, and plot armor you have left before you receive a deadly wound. You can break a leg, take a long rest, be back at full HP, and your leg will still be broken if you haven't been healed it with magic.
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*immediately starts making temporary and permanent injuries tables*
I once had a level 3 party fight 3 zombies (danse macabre spell). It took them 3 rounds to kill those 3 zombies!
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
I wanted to change things of for my player(s) who have memorized statistics in the M.M. so I handcrafted with careful etchings (spontaneously pulled from my..) Circus Zombies. Freeks, Geeks, and Entertainer who have a savage bite that infects players making their veins turns black on a failed saving throw. The Zombies, and the infection are severely slowed by cold. They have a Size Large Clown Zombie who tells terrible jokes. "Why do elves have pointed ears? There needs to be a point to elves somewhere." (Thank you Ravenloft publications). After each joke a player makes a wisdom saving throw or suffer the effects of confusion.
Players wated to be safe and burned all the bodies. That's when they discover destroying the body doesn't kill them. It immobilizes them. The severed head was still trying to bite them.
I reveled in no certain terms (aka remembered a horror film I watched years ago) and shared with a new player joining us as a townsfolk hero that the smoke fumes infected live stock and farmers/ranchers are putting down cows, sheep, horses, etc who are now ravenous flesh eating heard animals. "You see a bull covered in blood and organs feasting among a field littered with festering cow carcass.
I feel like I need some kind of Evil Circus Master in the adventure.
With much regret,
ThacoZero 5.1.2020@1020
"...and that happened."
If you're trying to beat up zombies with melee weapons, the average damage required is around 35. On the other hand, zombies have AC 8. If you want to be really annoying, have zombified npcs in ring mail.
Pantagruel999 that's a lot of chain mail to hand to my players. Sounds like a Warlords band of merry men all got infected.
I bet a Lich needed an army and the Warlord is now his Revenant Knight!
good stuff, thank you.
With much lament,
Thac0Zer0
"...and that happened."
Ring mail is 30 gp for weight 40 lb, I predict PCs would leave it behind to rot unless they had a convenient cart and nothing with a better ratio of value to weight.
The problem is they're not going to be proficient with that armor, which is going to cripple every roll they make with strength or dexterity including their slam attack and grapple or shove attempts.
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But they would be very annoying to kill, just use them as meatshields for your low-hp necromancer.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
Depends what you zombified, it looks like they retain the proficiencies they had in life. If you turn a bunch of Hobgoblins into zombies, you'll get a bunch of zombies wearing chain and shield.
They'll certainly be wearing chain mail and a shield, but they won't be proficient with it. The only thing a zombie retains from its former life is the languages it spoke, and the Monster Manual's description makes it clear their mental faculties are very limited.
You could easily make a case for a skeleton being proficient with armor, but then you lose Undead Fortitude.
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