My party recently became level 9 and the bard has decided to take teleportation circle to finally get a way to fast travel. I encourage this and im happy that the party can now, more directly, travel from place to place.
There has always been a teleportation circle system between larger cities (which were shut down because of a war) but they are still there. I always had the players pay 50 gold a person to be teleported to make up for the costs of the material component. This would also be something that, in lore, is used by the rich merchants to travel quickly between large cities.
Now the question is, If my bard decided to pay to be allowed to get to know a certain teleportation circle. How much would that cost?
Do remember, a wizard once paid 18.000+ gold to place this thing and now its being used by the government. Someone needs to get money from this. The party will mainly use this to traven from (somewhere) to a location. Rather than from one city to another.
To turn the question around, how does the operator of a circle stop people from memorising it? It only takes a minute of study (suggesting it is not a complex pattern, just a string of letters or digits).
When you arrive in a circle (after the spell is cast by someone else), just stop, sneeze or cough or something else to delay for 10 rounds, and you now know the circle.
Alternatively, get someone else to write it down for you.
I'm assuming a circle can't be covered. It sort-of makes sense that paint or something obscuring the runes will interfere with the teleport magic. Then again, how about covering the circle with a carpet (a plot point in an Elizabeth Moon book, if I remember right)?
It only costs 1825gp to scribe a permanent circle, not 18,000, but the normal way of paying for transportation infrastructure, assuming the destination actually wants traffic, is via a toll. I'd be tempted by a toll equal to the normal casting cost of a circle. I'd only charge money for knowing a circle if the circle is a secret of some sort.
365*50=18.250 It does cost that much to set a permanent circle.
But yeah its some kind of toll but it allows you to travel faster than modern-day airtravel. So that alone and the fact that it costs money to use it would up the price.
The teleportation circles are complex enough that you need to spend the full minute focussed on memorizing it. That is my ruling in my game to allow the usage of teleportation circles by anyone who has the coin but not make copying the teleportation circle possible in such a quick manner as you describe.
Here's what I usually recommend when you're not certain of the price of something... make it a quest! Instead of narrowing down a reasonable price for use of the teleportation circle, think of something that a person operating the circle needs help with. If the party takes care of it for them, then they'll be allowed to copy down the teleportation circle. Maybe they need to become members of a specific group to be given access. Maybe the person running it is a little shady and willing to part with the information in exchange for the party's aid in something dangerous. If you've got an adventure idea you've been cooking up but you've been struggling for a narrative hook to get the party involved, this is an easy one.
The spell says: When you first gain the ability to cast this spell, you learn the sigil sequences for two destinations on the Material Plane, determined by the GM.
The spell says: When you first gain the ability to cast this spell, you learn the sigil sequences for two destinations on the Material Plane, determined by the GM.
Why not start there?
We did, I am just wonder what a decent price would be to get to know another location.
As others have mentioned, price isn't always money. Just Google your question and you will find that many others have come to the conclusion that you quest to be considered worthy of knowing(having access to) a new location. Many factions may have their own networks so, being a high rank in a faction could give access. Trading locations information is an option for unregulated circles. At a later time, the Bard could set up their own location to trade for the access to someone else's. Not all permanent teleportation circles are going to be tied into the cities "government". Many people have these circles set up secretly in major cities only allowing access to those who have earned their trust.
Also, I think "how much would it cost?" is probably the the least interesting way to resolve this question.
To turn the question around, how does the operator of a circle stop people from memorising it? It only takes a minute of study (suggesting it is not a complex pattern, just a string of letters or digits).
When you arrive in a circle (after the spell is cast by someone else), just stop, sneeze or cough or something else to delay for 10 rounds, and you now know the circle.
Alternatively, get someone else to write it down for you.
I'm assuming a circle can't be covered. It sort-of makes sense that paint or something obscuring the runes will interfere with the teleport magic. Then again, how about covering the circle with a carpet (a plot point in an Elizabeth Moon book, if I remember right)?
I'd argue that if you simply put a layer of decorative pavers over the site, then you wouldn't be able to see any carved features of the magical sigils. They'd only be visible when the Circle is actually activated via the glow they'd put off. Think about how IRL they build fake houses around power substations in Canadian cities, or in LA there are fake office buildings around oil pumping stations. There are ways of concealing objects and sites to keep them looking pretty without interfering with their function.
To turn the question around, how does the operator of a circle stop people from memorising it? It only takes a minute of study (suggesting it is not a complex pattern, just a string of letters or digits).
When you arrive in a circle (after the spell is cast by someone else), just stop, sneeze or cough or something else to delay for 10 rounds, and you now know the circle.
Alternatively, get someone else to write it down for you.
I'm assuming a circle can't be covered. It sort-of makes sense that paint or something obscuring the runes will interfere with the teleport magic. Then again, how about covering the circle with a carpet (a plot point in an Elizabeth Moon book, if I remember right)?
I'd argue that if you simply put a layer of decorative pavers over the site, then you wouldn't be able to see any carved features of the magical sigils. They'd only be visible when the Circle is actually activated via the glow they'd put off. Think about how IRL they build fake houses around power substations in Canadian cities, or in LA there are fake office buildings around oil pumping stations. There are ways of concealing objects and sites to keep them looking pretty without interfering with their function.
You don't even have to go that far. Besides this action would be out of character for a wizard, whoever spent the time and money to set up that circle is going to make sure that whoever comes in via it is ushered out of the room in less than 1 minute.
You don't even have to go that far. Besides this action would be out of character for a wizard, whoever spent the time and money to set up that circle is going to make sure that whoever comes in via it is ushered out of the room in less than 1 minute.
Depends what the circle is for. For a commercial use, it doesn't really matter if someone learns the pattern, because if they use the pattern you can just collect money from them at that time (you probably have security on the location of the circle to prevent someone sending an army into your back yard, which is incidentally useful for fare jumpers). For a secret location, well, there's lots of methods you might use.
The teleportation circles are complex enough that you need to spend the full minute focussed on memorizing it. That is my ruling in my game to allow the usage of teleportation circles by anyone who has the coin but not make copying the teleportation circle possible in such a quick manner as you describe.
Which is not very complex. To be able to be locked in to long term memory in 60 seconds, the codes have to be on the order of complexity of a street address, a credit card number, or an IPv6 address.
If it only takes a minute to memorise the code then it only takes a minute (or a few minutes) to write down the code later and give it to someone.
You can learn additional sigil sequences during your adventures. You can commit a new sigil sequence to memory after studying it for 1 minute.
After studying it. That means more than a sideways glance. And unless the person "jotting down the code" is an arcane caster they are not going to be well versed in sigils to understand which ones are the proper ones. Plus writting them down is going to take longer than a minute - ergo no one is going to let you sit around and do that. The wizard has to not just "look" at the circle, he has to study for a fully minute. Meaning walking around and discerning all the glyphs on the floor, the connecting lines, sigils and where they are located. look up magic circles and see how complex they are. It is not a 10 digit phone number written with large arrows saying "Look here to know your location"
Teleportax! As in, teleportation tax. Teleportation circles are state sponsored - maybe it's even an actual monopoly, and you need a permit in triplicate to do such things, not least because a foreign power might do well to send a caster ahead of time, to set up multiple circles through which invading troops could pour into the country, or city.
So: Strictly regulated system, material components monitored, and all circles terminate in a locked room. On arrival, you pay a reasonable tax - say, 100 gold.
Or not, I dunno. It might be a little hard to enforce such rules - high level casters being the only ones you'd need to regulate, and they ... might have opinions =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
1) monetary costs can be problematic as high level characters often have an abundance of cash or equivalents. If your PCs meet this then set any cash prices as high as you can to strip as much of that wealth as possible away. 2) if your world has any sort of extensive history with lost cities and civilizations (similar to the FR) then many circles are going to be in strange and interesting places not under any government control - maybe under no control at all. Some may actually have multiple destinations and sigil patterns . In a world like FR while a government like Cormyr might try to regulate and commercialize a set of circles they have created/discovered and having a price for these makes a certain amount of sense. For all the others they could call for a variety of prices - membership in the organization controlling them, reward for services rendered (accidentally or purposefully), quests to find long lost information (who says the digits are in any presently known writing?), gaining the friendship of an unusual or powerful entity (a dragon, archmage, a non evil undead, etc
On the one hand you're completely right: There's no reason to assume all teleportation circles have the Teleportation Tax Task Force Officials standing ready to charge the fee.
On the other hand, Common. And longswords, that are just magically exactly the same price everywhere. And so on.
But no, I'm not suggesting a universal pricing. More like, if you know the location, porting into the Lost City of Forgotistan is free - but teleporting back to the capital of your home country is going to have the above authority waiting, hands out =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
It is very much DM dependent, in all the games I have played access to city controlled telportation circles is strictly controlled, the party only gain access by doing some great deed, partly as reward and partly because they know if another crisis appears they are likely to came back and sort it (for a suitable fee) if returning to the city is straight forward. People who have not been proven trustworthy would never be given access to the teleportation circle no matter what they are willing to pay.
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Dear Dungeon Masters,
My party recently became level 9 and the bard has decided to take teleportation circle to finally get a way to fast travel. I encourage this and im happy that the party can now, more directly, travel from place to place.
There has always been a teleportation circle system between larger cities (which were shut down because of a war) but they are still there. I always had the players pay 50 gold a person to be teleported to make up for the costs of the material component. This would also be something that, in lore, is used by the rich merchants to travel quickly between large cities.
Now the question is, If my bard decided to pay to be allowed to get to know a certain teleportation circle. How much would that cost?
Do remember, a wizard once paid 18.000+ gold to place this thing and now its being used by the government. Someone needs to get money from this.
The party will mainly use this to traven from (somewhere) to a location. Rather than from one city to another.
What would be a good price?
Thanks!
I would want to give different prices for:
A Capital City
A large City
An individual's teleportation circle
To turn the question around, how does the operator of a circle stop people from memorising it? It only takes a minute of study (suggesting it is not a complex pattern, just a string of letters or digits).
When you arrive in a circle (after the spell is cast by someone else), just stop, sneeze or cough or something else to delay for 10 rounds, and you now know the circle.
Alternatively, get someone else to write it down for you.
I'm assuming a circle can't be covered. It sort-of makes sense that paint or something obscuring the runes will interfere with the teleport magic. Then again, how about covering the circle with a carpet (a plot point in an Elizabeth Moon book, if I remember right)?
It only costs 1825gp to scribe a permanent circle, not 18,000, but the normal way of paying for transportation infrastructure, assuming the destination actually wants traffic, is via a toll. I'd be tempted by a toll equal to the normal casting cost of a circle. I'd only charge money for knowing a circle if the circle is a secret of some sort.
365*50=18.250 It does cost that much to set a permanent circle.
But yeah its some kind of toll but it allows you to travel faster than modern-day airtravel. So that alone and the fact that it costs money to use it would up the price.
The teleportation circles are complex enough that you need to spend the full minute focussed on memorizing it. That is my ruling in my game to allow the usage of teleportation circles by anyone who has the coin but not make copying the teleportation circle possible in such a quick manner as you describe.
Here's what I usually recommend when you're not certain of the price of something... make it a quest! Instead of narrowing down a reasonable price for use of the teleportation circle, think of something that a person operating the circle needs help with. If the party takes care of it for them, then they'll be allowed to copy down the teleportation circle. Maybe they need to become members of a specific group to be given access. Maybe the person running it is a little shady and willing to part with the information in exchange for the party's aid in something dangerous. If you've got an adventure idea you've been cooking up but you've been struggling for a narrative hook to get the party involved, this is an easy one.
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The spell says: When you first gain the ability to cast this spell, you learn the sigil sequences for two destinations on the Material Plane, determined by the GM.
Why not start there?
We did, I am just wonder what a decent price would be to get to know another location.
As others have mentioned, price isn't always money. Just Google your question and you will find that many others have come to the conclusion that you quest to be considered worthy of knowing(having access to) a new location. Many factions may have their own networks so, being a high rank in a faction could give access. Trading locations information is an option for unregulated circles. At a later time, the Bard could set up their own location to trade for the access to someone else's. Not all permanent teleportation circles are going to be tied into the cities "government". Many people have these circles set up secretly in major cities only allowing access to those who have earned their trust.
Also, I think "how much would it cost?" is probably the the least interesting way to resolve this question.
I'd argue that if you simply put a layer of decorative pavers over the site, then you wouldn't be able to see any carved features of the magical sigils. They'd only be visible when the Circle is actually activated via the glow they'd put off. Think about how IRL they build fake houses around power substations in Canadian cities, or in LA there are fake office buildings around oil pumping stations. There are ways of concealing objects and sites to keep them looking pretty without interfering with their function.
You don't even have to go that far. Besides this action would be out of character for a wizard, whoever spent the time and money to set up that circle is going to make sure that whoever comes in via it is ushered out of the room in less than 1 minute.
Depends what the circle is for. For a commercial use, it doesn't really matter if someone learns the pattern, because if they use the pattern you can just collect money from them at that time (you probably have security on the location of the circle to prevent someone sending an army into your back yard, which is incidentally useful for fare jumpers). For a secret location, well, there's lots of methods you might use.
Which is not very complex. To be able to be locked in to long term memory in 60 seconds, the codes have to be on the order of complexity of a street address, a credit card number, or an IPv6 address.
If it only takes a minute to memorise the code then it only takes a minute (or a few minutes) to write down the code later and give it to someone.
After studying it. That means more than a sideways glance. And unless the person "jotting down the code" is an arcane caster they are not going to be well versed in sigils to understand which ones are the proper ones. Plus writting them down is going to take longer than a minute - ergo no one is going to let you sit around and do that. The wizard has to not just "look" at the circle, he has to study for a fully minute. Meaning walking around and discerning all the glyphs on the floor, the connecting lines, sigils and where they are located. look up magic circles and see how complex they are. It is not a 10 digit phone number written with large arrows saying "Look here to know your location"
Hidden room with traps. You wouldn't leave your door unlocked would you?
Teleportax! As in, teleportation tax. Teleportation circles are state sponsored - maybe it's even an actual monopoly, and you need a permit in triplicate to do such things, not least because a foreign power might do well to send a caster ahead of time, to set up multiple circles through which invading troops could pour into the country, or city.
So: Strictly regulated system, material components monitored, and all circles terminate in a locked room. On arrival, you pay a reasonable tax - say, 100 gold.
Or not, I dunno. It might be a little hard to enforce such rules - high level casters being the only ones you'd need to regulate, and they ... might have opinions =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
1) monetary costs can be problematic as high level characters often have an abundance of cash or equivalents. If your PCs meet this then set any cash prices as high as you can to strip as much of that wealth as possible away.
2) if your world has any sort of extensive history with lost cities and civilizations (similar to the FR) then many circles are going to be in strange and interesting places not under any government control - maybe under no control at all. Some may actually have multiple destinations and sigil patterns . In a world like FR while a government like Cormyr might try to regulate and commercialize a set of circles they have created/discovered and having a price for these makes a certain amount of sense. For all the others they could call for a variety of prices - membership in the organization controlling them, reward for services rendered (accidentally or purposefully), quests to find long lost information (who says the digits are in any presently known writing?), gaining the friendship of an unusual or powerful entity (a dragon, archmage, a non evil undead, etc
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
On the one hand you're completely right: There's no reason to assume all teleportation circles have the Teleportation Tax Task Force Officials standing ready to charge the fee.
On the other hand, Common. And longswords, that are just magically exactly the same price everywhere. And so on.
But no, I'm not suggesting a universal pricing. More like, if you know the location, porting into the Lost City of Forgotistan is free - but teleporting back to the capital of your home country is going to have the above authority waiting, hands out =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
It is very much DM dependent, in all the games I have played access to city controlled telportation circles is strictly controlled, the party only gain access by doing some great deed, partly as reward and partly because they know if another crisis appears they are likely to came back and sort it (for a suitable fee) if returning to the city is straight forward. People who have not been proven trustworthy would never be given access to the teleportation circle no matter what they are willing to pay.