Hi All - I'm DM-ing LMOP w/ a couple friends; this is the first time any of us have played D&D and we're having a great time!
We started Tresendar Manor last week, and I was pretty excited for the party to get through it today. The way it turned out, though, they kind of "broke" the dungeon; especially the encounter with Glasstaff. I was hoping to get some feedback on whether I could/should have done something/lots of things differently, or if this is just an example of how things go when the party gets a string of good rolls.
Ok - they got in the secret way w/ Carp's help, defeated the Nothic, went as far the crypt w/ the skeletons, and then decided to backtrack through the other secret door leading straight to Glasstaff's quarters. One of the players is a rogue and rolled 25 on a stealth check to crack open the door & see what was on the other side, so they were able both to have the element of surprise and plan their approach ahead of time. The other player is a fighter & used his Action Surge ability. Long story short, the rogue kicked open the door, going straight for the staff, and the fighter immediately shot off 2 arrows with his longbow. He wanted to shoot each of Glasstaff's hands in order to keep him alive but prevent him from going for his staff, and he rolled 20+ on both attack rolls, so I felt it was only fair to say he succeeded. He rolled 19 damage between the two shots, leaving Glasstaff with only 3 HP. Given what the book says about Glasstaff being a coward and trying to run away at 8 HP, and not being able to get to his staff, I felt like the only thing I could do was have him immediately surrender! So that's what happened - they bound him up, took him out the same way they came, and skipped out of the manor without ever even running into any Redbrands.
Doesn’t sound broken at all. Sounds like it was fun. Don’t get too caught up in what you expect the players to do because they will always confound you.
My only comments would be to take what you did and decide how you want to handle that stuff consistently in the future. A couple of things jumped out at me that isn’t terribly important, but I might have handled slightly differently:
- I generally don’t allow players to call non lethal damage with a ranged weapon (i seem to recall that’s RAW), but I might alter this to be a type of called shot (see below)
- you should probably figure out consistent rules to apply for a called shot. I’m inferring you decided his roll was good enough and so allowed it, but if players use it a lot you’re going to want to be consistent and you’re going to want a cost for it if it’s going to have a decent benefit. I think I’d apply disadvantage rather than setting a threshold unless it’s just mostly flavour.
- It sounds like you decided the DC for both the called shot and the door check after the fact. Ignore this if that’s just because of how you worded it. I recommend you decide DC’s before the roll. It’s very easy to unintentionally bias things towards what you want to happen or planned for otherwise.
- finally, even though the thief was quiet, I don’t think I would have automatically given a surprise round when they kicked the door in. I might have if they successfully opened the door without being noticed and lined up their shots. I’d likely have given a hard DC check to Glasstaff to avoid a surprise round from a kicked in door.
Most of it seems pretty solid except maybe 2 points. 1: they killed the nothic without making enough noise to alert everyone else? This is an often overlooked part of the dungeon/adventure. The repercussions of making noise. 2: Attacking specific points to restrict other abilities (shooting at the hands). There aren't really any mechanics in 5E for attacking a specific point. But if a player specified it, and I allowed it (which I probably would) I would either increase the AC or have them attack at disadvantage. Think about it. They have a +3 to hit (or whatever). That's to hit ANYWHERE. Torso's maily, because they're the biggest target. So suddenly they want to hit a moving hand? That's going to be a lot harder to do. Not impossible, but harder. So the AC would go up to reflect that.
I think you played it well. My players did a similar thing, when they split up and 2 of them entered through the secret door and grabbed his staff with some good rolls.
They incapacitated him in the process, but stupidly left him tied up and then went and long rested elsewhere expecting him to still be there, while they knew full well there were Bugbears still about (albeit placated ones, in my defence).
Yours sounds pretty good to me, including the good rolls for shooting the hands. It sounds cool to me, so I would also bend the rules to accomodate. As already stated, you can't call a knock-out on a bow shot - if the target drops to 0hp that's it. Having said that, there's nothing stopping a Cleric or someone healing them up afterwards.
My own rules for called shots is To make them as if the section they are calling has 3/4 cover (+5 to AC). If they hit the normal AC vs the call then I allow them the hit as normal, if they make the called shot AC then I give the target an injury (that I decide, not the player)
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Hi All - I'm DM-ing LMOP w/ a couple friends; this is the first time any of us have played D&D and we're having a great time!
We started Tresendar Manor last week, and I was pretty excited for the party to get through it today. The way it turned out, though, they kind of "broke" the dungeon; especially the encounter with Glasstaff. I was hoping to get some feedback on whether I could/should have done something/lots of things differently, or if this is just an example of how things go when the party gets a string of good rolls.
Ok - they got in the secret way w/ Carp's help, defeated the Nothic, went as far the crypt w/ the skeletons, and then decided to backtrack through the other secret door leading straight to Glasstaff's quarters. One of the players is a rogue and rolled 25 on a stealth check to crack open the door & see what was on the other side, so they were able both to have the element of surprise and plan their approach ahead of time. The other player is a fighter & used his Action Surge ability. Long story short, the rogue kicked open the door, going straight for the staff, and the fighter immediately shot off 2 arrows with his longbow. He wanted to shoot each of Glasstaff's hands in order to keep him alive but prevent him from going for his staff, and he rolled 20+ on both attack rolls, so I felt it was only fair to say he succeeded. He rolled 19 damage between the two shots, leaving Glasstaff with only 3 HP. Given what the book says about Glasstaff being a coward and trying to run away at 8 HP, and not being able to get to his staff, I felt like the only thing I could do was have him immediately surrender! So that's what happened - they bound him up, took him out the same way they came, and skipped out of the manor without ever even running into any Redbrands.
Thanks for any thoughts; I really appreciate it!
Mike
Doesn’t sound broken at all. Sounds like it was fun. Don’t get too caught up in what you expect the players to do because they will always confound you.
My only comments would be to take what you did and decide how you want to handle that stuff consistently in the future. A couple of things jumped out at me that isn’t terribly important, but I might have handled slightly differently:
- I generally don’t allow players to call non lethal damage with a ranged weapon (i seem to recall that’s RAW), but I might alter this to be a type of called shot (see below)
- you should probably figure out consistent rules to apply for a called shot. I’m inferring you decided his roll was good enough and so allowed it, but if players use it a lot you’re going to want to be consistent and you’re going to want a cost for it if it’s going to have a decent benefit. I think I’d apply disadvantage rather than setting a threshold unless it’s just mostly flavour.
- It sounds like you decided the DC for both the called shot and the door check after the fact. Ignore this if that’s just because of how you worded it. I recommend you decide DC’s before the roll. It’s very easy to unintentionally bias things towards what you want to happen or planned for otherwise.
- finally, even though the thief was quiet, I don’t think I would have automatically given a surprise round when they kicked the door in. I might have if they successfully opened the door without being noticed and lined up their shots. I’d likely have given a hard DC check to Glasstaff to avoid a surprise round from a kicked in door.
Most of it seems pretty solid except maybe 2 points.
1: they killed the nothic without making enough noise to alert everyone else? This is an often overlooked part of the dungeon/adventure. The repercussions of making noise.
2: Attacking specific points to restrict other abilities (shooting at the hands). There aren't really any mechanics in 5E for attacking a specific point. But if a player specified it, and I allowed it (which I probably would) I would either increase the AC or have them attack at disadvantage. Think about it. They have a +3 to hit (or whatever). That's to hit ANYWHERE. Torso's maily, because they're the biggest target. So suddenly they want to hit a moving hand? That's going to be a lot harder to do. Not impossible, but harder. So the AC would go up to reflect that.
I think you played it well. My players did a similar thing, when they split up and 2 of them entered through the secret door and grabbed his staff with some good rolls.
They incapacitated him in the process, but stupidly left him tied up and then went and long rested elsewhere expecting him to still be there, while they knew full well there were Bugbears still about (albeit placated ones, in my defence).
Yours sounds pretty good to me, including the good rolls for shooting the hands. It sounds cool to me, so I would also bend the rules to accomodate. As already stated, you can't call a knock-out on a bow shot - if the target drops to 0hp that's it. Having said that, there's nothing stopping a Cleric or someone healing them up afterwards.
My own rules for called shots is To make them as if the section they are calling has 3/4 cover (+5 to AC). If they hit the normal AC vs the call then I allow them the hit as normal, if they make the called shot AC then I give the target an injury (that I decide, not the player)