I'm a public librarian who works in Teen/Youth services.
I was just putting this out there to see if other librarians out there who are running Dungeons and Dragons programs would like to discuss their respective programs and trade advice etc. I just recently started my D&D library program at the library I have been hired at, but I ran an extremely successful program at my previous library. Now I'm building it from the ground up again.
Currently I have no volunteer Dungeon Masters, but I hope to get some of my teens involved in that capacity over time. I use a combination of Discord and roll20.net to facilitate my sessions (4-6 people weekly) during COVID-19, but in person I had bi-weekly sessions with 20 people in attendance.
I definitely don't get the same energy DMing digitally as I did in person, but it's still great to get to do this for my kids.
I have no real insights for you but I want to thank you for doing this. I worked in a library through most of high school and all of college. I was a RPG player. Why didn't I start a program like this???
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
My local library used to run a game for adults. They don't anymore, for several reasons mostly around player misconduct, but I think there are some ideas to make it work better than it did when we tried it:
Player codes of conduct that you have to sign, to be reviewed and enforced by the DM (and by the library staff should there be a player who feels like it's been violated and the DM didn't care) to protect against harassment, inappropriate content, etc.
Multiple DMs who can meet to workshop sessions and discuss issues. My library only had a single DM if I remember correctly, and he contributed to some of the problems. I don't know if he was experienced or not, but apparently something went wrong and he just kind of left the campaign because of issues, which ended the program. I live in a remote rural area with some deeply religious opposition to D&D still left over from the satanic panic, which means that we don't have the best crop of players/DMs.
I think things work pretty differently with kids and teens. I ran a mixed group with a family who wanted to introduce their kids, and it requires much more patience and flexibility in DMs. Honestly, I don't think D&D, as much as I love 5e, is the best way to get young kids (under 13) into tabletop RPGs. There are plenty of mechanics and systems that require memorization, and I think the kids I played with sometimes found that frustrating, though our campaign worked fine because we took a lot of time for the kids and compromised the experience of the adults at the table (because we were playing for the kids, obviously). More rule light systems might be better. There are several, like Quest or one page systems, that I would recommend for younger kids instead. For science fiction, something like Lasers and Feelings is a good option, and while it seems a little more tailored towards an adult audience thematically, World of Dungeons could be good for fantasy. This also works better for one shots, which could be good if you have a fluctuating audience (e.g. kids that might only be there one week a month) and can be run much more easily if you have a higher than expected turnout and need to split groups.
So to clarify for my program, I run it for anyone grades 6-12.
@SquireZed At this library my average age is around 13-14. While I definitely do have to exercise patience, I haven't found it to be any worse with my kids than it is with most adults in my experience. So far 5E hasn't been an issue once we get past the basics of character creation. That does suck about the issues of rural libraries, I myself grew up in a rural farming community so I empathize with the situation.
@Jeremiah_the_Everwise How has your program been going for adults? What type of issues do you have? So your library has never had an in person program, only this online one?
@Massacar: I think it's going pretty well. We haven't had any real problems like others seem to. It's interesting because the group is almost entirely female, which may explain it? It's a mixture of experienced players and those new to the game. And, yes, we've never had an in-person program before. We've offered programs about how to play, but never tried to run one until now. We pitched the program to bored dads hanging out at home in COVID, but mostly got bored moms instead.
The only trouble I'm running into is having too many people in Roll20. We have six players and that feels like a lot.
@SquireZed: I'd be curious what your code looked like? We have a library code of conduct, which I've just carried over. I didn't think to create a new one for this?
Tech speaking: we play on Roll20, use Google meet for voice, and are running the Mines of Phandelver. We tried Discord, but it was a bridge too far for our members.
See we use Discord for voice (since teens are more familiar with the platform) and roll20 for the grid. I limit my online groups to 6, but I feel as though we've been able to keep it under control. If your players don't already do it, I highly recommend asking them to mute their mics when they aren't actively talking to eachother/you. It cuts down on distractions by a huge amount. I'm running a homebrew campaign for each of my groups personally.
The problem I'm having is how to broaden the program. We're going on a couple of months now and they seem pretty happy to keep playing. I had originally thought I'd run through this adventure, naively, thinking it'd be four parts = four or five weeks. (I was so wrong, still going on part three.) And, then let more people have a chance at it.
I guess I'm asking: how often do you all "restart" to let more people into the game? Or, is it more like, over time natural attrition will set in and you find you have room?
I just picked up the Storm Kings Thunder to try next.
I don't think they had one for the D&D campaign. I wasn't part of that (I don't work for the library, but I work with someone who works closely with them on programing) and from what I heard they didn't have any sort of contract or rules. I use a code with my players, and it's pretty generic, but it helps if you're doing public groups that might have tensions because people don't know each other.
1. No harassment of other players sexually, verbally, or physically. Interactions between characters should respect the table's comfort levels for themes of violence and sexuality. Harassment, both at and away from the table, is grounds for expulsion.
2. If a player is unable to make a session, they should provide advance notice as soon as possible, preferably at least a day. If a player consistently misses sessions, or misses sessions with no notice frequently, that is grounds for expulsion. Life does happen, and things do come up at the last minute, but respect for the time of everyone at the table is important.
*As a DM, I provide reminders in advance of sessions in group communication channels such as email, Discord, etc., which gives players an extra chance to respond if they have a conflict they forgot about or something came up and it slipped their mind. This is obviously not necessarily applicable if your expectations for the group don't include everyone attending every session. The group my local library ran was like a traditional campaign, so people were not supposed to miss, but for larger groups that's probably not an issue.
3. The table is moderated by the DM. If you have a conflict with another player, involve the DM so that the situation doesn't become a he-said-she-said. Personal issues between players should not become table problems, and the DM has the authority to make judgement calls on what is appropriate for interactions at the table.
4. All players have a right to be part of the story. If a player is being disruptive, or if the DM is not including a player in the storytelling process, it is the responsibility of the DM to resolve the issue. While exact parity is difficult and unlikely, if a player's actions result in a diminished experience for other players, the DM has the duty of rectifying the situation.
*Although most of the rules are focused around players, this also applies to DMs. One of the problems with the campaign at my local library was favoritism- an existing group of players was part of the program, and they were treated much better than newbies. I didn't witness exactly what happened, so I don't know if it was gatekeeping or something more extreme, but apparently it drove several players away, which was when the library decided that it was better if the group didn't meet as part of their programing anymore. DM favoritism is a major issue in groups, particularly with social dynamics and personal relationships.
5. The game is run according to the rules of the system, with the DM making judgement calls in the moment.
*I mostly use this to protect against backstory munchkinism. It also helps the players have the ability to call out DM issues- some of the biggest problems I've had in campaigns I've played and some of the early games I ran are DM decisions that simply ignore mechanics for story, limiting their players' ability to participate meaningfully. If you're running a program that involves multiple DMs, this is a way to get some way for people to respond to a possible abusive or overbearing DM. I have the belief that the mechanics of D&D or any other tabletop game are the point of regulated contact between players and DMs. While ultimate authority does rest with the DM, decisions should be made to respect player experience- particularly in balance between players and the ability to do things in the world the players and DM share.
6. Substance use and impairment detracts from the quality of the table experience, and all players should be sober and prepared for the session.
*I wish I didn't have to have this rule, because among adults I think some amount of minor drinking probably isn't a giant issue, but I've seen and heard about too many games getting destroyed because someone drank too much or experimented with substances before (or sometimes during) the session. It's not fair for the other players and the DM to have to babysit a crying/angry/sleepy/paranoid player's character and deal with the real world consequences of their substances. I assume that most libraries would have policies to protect against that physically, but since online games take place from the comfort of your own home usually, people can be pretty lax about this rule and, while most of the time it's not an issue, when it is an issue it is probably good to have this prepared in advance.
There are a few other rules I use depending on the context- physical tables, online platforms, theater of the mind or battle mapped, etc. However, I think these six rules are good fundamentals for most tables. Obviously, there are others - in Discord games I usually configure the server to limit one channel for rolling, one channel for campaign related posts, and one for general/out of session posts, for example. However, those are more along the line of personal preference than fundamentals of making sure everyone has a good time. Obviously, different player bases might call for some revision, but I think this is pretty much what my code would be if it was truly generic.
I use Discord with Avrae for online games, using Astral for my tabletop (and only for tokens and maps, not character sheets) since it's easy to whip up maps in. I used Roll20 a long time ago, but I haven't kept up to see if it's as convenient as Astral is.
@SquireZed: Thank you. You've given me a lot to think about. I haven't run into these problems yet, but it's good to know they are out there. We have a Library Code of Conduct, that covers some of what you mention. It's worth thinking about adding some more specifics for this sort of game. Thanks again.
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Hello all,
I'm a public librarian who works in Teen/Youth services.
I was just putting this out there to see if other librarians out there who are running Dungeons and Dragons programs would like to discuss their respective programs and trade advice etc. I just recently started my D&D library program at the library I have been hired at, but I ran an extremely successful program at my previous library. Now I'm building it from the ground up again.
Currently I have no volunteer Dungeon Masters, but I hope to get some of my teens involved in that capacity over time. I use a combination of Discord and roll20.net to facilitate my sessions (4-6 people weekly) during COVID-19, but in person I had bi-weekly sessions with 20 people in attendance.
I definitely don't get the same energy DMing digitally as I did in person, but it's still great to get to do this for my kids.
I have no real insights for you but I want to thank you for doing this. I worked in a library through most of high school and all of college. I was a RPG player. Why didn't I start a program like this???
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Hi there,
I'm a public librarian who's been running a game since June, or so.
We're running an adult game, so maybe less useful?
Happy to talk more about it.
Best,
Jeremiah
My local library used to run a game for adults. They don't anymore, for several reasons mostly around player misconduct, but I think there are some ideas to make it work better than it did when we tried it:
Player codes of conduct that you have to sign, to be reviewed and enforced by the DM (and by the library staff should there be a player who feels like it's been violated and the DM didn't care) to protect against harassment, inappropriate content, etc.
Multiple DMs who can meet to workshop sessions and discuss issues. My library only had a single DM if I remember correctly, and he contributed to some of the problems. I don't know if he was experienced or not, but apparently something went wrong and he just kind of left the campaign because of issues, which ended the program. I live in a remote rural area with some deeply religious opposition to D&D still left over from the satanic panic, which means that we don't have the best crop of players/DMs.
I think things work pretty differently with kids and teens. I ran a mixed group with a family who wanted to introduce their kids, and it requires much more patience and flexibility in DMs. Honestly, I don't think D&D, as much as I love 5e, is the best way to get young kids (under 13) into tabletop RPGs. There are plenty of mechanics and systems that require memorization, and I think the kids I played with sometimes found that frustrating, though our campaign worked fine because we took a lot of time for the kids and compromised the experience of the adults at the table (because we were playing for the kids, obviously). More rule light systems might be better. There are several, like Quest or one page systems, that I would recommend for younger kids instead. For science fiction, something like Lasers and Feelings is a good option, and while it seems a little more tailored towards an adult audience thematically, World of Dungeons could be good for fantasy. This also works better for one shots, which could be good if you have a fluctuating audience (e.g. kids that might only be there one week a month) and can be run much more easily if you have a higher than expected turnout and need to split groups.
So to clarify for my program, I run it for anyone grades 6-12.
@SquireZed At this library my average age is around 13-14. While I definitely do have to exercise patience, I haven't found it to be any worse with my kids than it is with most adults in my experience. So far 5E hasn't been an issue once we get past the basics of character creation. That does suck about the issues of rural libraries, I myself grew up in a rural farming community so I empathize with the situation.
@Jeremiah_the_Everwise How has your program been going for adults? What type of issues do you have? So your library has never had an in person program, only this online one?
@Massacar: I think it's going pretty well. We haven't had any real problems like others seem to. It's interesting because the group is almost entirely female, which may explain it? It's a mixture of experienced players and those new to the game. And, yes, we've never had an in-person program before. We've offered programs about how to play, but never tried to run one until now. We pitched the program to bored dads hanging out at home in COVID, but mostly got bored moms instead.
The only trouble I'm running into is having too many people in Roll20. We have six players and that feels like a lot.
@SquireZed: I'd be curious what your code looked like? We have a library code of conduct, which I've just carried over. I didn't think to create a new one for this?
Tech speaking: we play on Roll20, use Google meet for voice, and are running the Mines of Phandelver. We tried Discord, but it was a bridge too far for our members.
See we use Discord for voice (since teens are more familiar with the platform) and roll20 for the grid. I limit my online groups to 6, but I feel as though we've been able to keep it under control. If your players don't already do it, I highly recommend asking them to mute their mics when they aren't actively talking to eachother/you. It cuts down on distractions by a huge amount. I'm running a homebrew campaign for each of my groups personally.
The problem I'm having is how to broaden the program. We're going on a couple of months now and they seem pretty happy to keep playing. I had originally thought I'd run through this adventure, naively, thinking it'd be four parts = four or five weeks. (I was so wrong, still going on part three.) And, then let more people have a chance at it.
I guess I'm asking: how often do you all "restart" to let more people into the game? Or, is it more like, over time natural attrition will set in and you find you have room?
I just picked up the Storm Kings Thunder to try next.
I don't think they had one for the D&D campaign. I wasn't part of that (I don't work for the library, but I work with someone who works closely with them on programing) and from what I heard they didn't have any sort of contract or rules. I use a code with my players, and it's pretty generic, but it helps if you're doing public groups that might have tensions because people don't know each other.
1. No harassment of other players sexually, verbally, or physically. Interactions between characters should respect the table's comfort levels for themes of violence and sexuality. Harassment, both at and away from the table, is grounds for expulsion.
2. If a player is unable to make a session, they should provide advance notice as soon as possible, preferably at least a day. If a player consistently misses sessions, or misses sessions with no notice frequently, that is grounds for expulsion. Life does happen, and things do come up at the last minute, but respect for the time of everyone at the table is important.
*As a DM, I provide reminders in advance of sessions in group communication channels such as email, Discord, etc., which gives players an extra chance to respond if they have a conflict they forgot about or something came up and it slipped their mind. This is obviously not necessarily applicable if your expectations for the group don't include everyone attending every session. The group my local library ran was like a traditional campaign, so people were not supposed to miss, but for larger groups that's probably not an issue.
3. The table is moderated by the DM. If you have a conflict with another player, involve the DM so that the situation doesn't become a he-said-she-said. Personal issues between players should not become table problems, and the DM has the authority to make judgement calls on what is appropriate for interactions at the table.
4. All players have a right to be part of the story. If a player is being disruptive, or if the DM is not including a player in the storytelling process, it is the responsibility of the DM to resolve the issue. While exact parity is difficult and unlikely, if a player's actions result in a diminished experience for other players, the DM has the duty of rectifying the situation.
*Although most of the rules are focused around players, this also applies to DMs. One of the problems with the campaign at my local library was favoritism- an existing group of players was part of the program, and they were treated much better than newbies. I didn't witness exactly what happened, so I don't know if it was gatekeeping or something more extreme, but apparently it drove several players away, which was when the library decided that it was better if the group didn't meet as part of their programing anymore. DM favoritism is a major issue in groups, particularly with social dynamics and personal relationships.
5. The game is run according to the rules of the system, with the DM making judgement calls in the moment.
*I mostly use this to protect against backstory munchkinism. It also helps the players have the ability to call out DM issues- some of the biggest problems I've had in campaigns I've played and some of the early games I ran are DM decisions that simply ignore mechanics for story, limiting their players' ability to participate meaningfully. If you're running a program that involves multiple DMs, this is a way to get some way for people to respond to a possible abusive or overbearing DM. I have the belief that the mechanics of D&D or any other tabletop game are the point of regulated contact between players and DMs. While ultimate authority does rest with the DM, decisions should be made to respect player experience- particularly in balance between players and the ability to do things in the world the players and DM share.
6. Substance use and impairment detracts from the quality of the table experience, and all players should be sober and prepared for the session.
*I wish I didn't have to have this rule, because among adults I think some amount of minor drinking probably isn't a giant issue, but I've seen and heard about too many games getting destroyed because someone drank too much or experimented with substances before (or sometimes during) the session. It's not fair for the other players and the DM to have to babysit a crying/angry/sleepy/paranoid player's character and deal with the real world consequences of their substances. I assume that most libraries would have policies to protect against that physically, but since online games take place from the comfort of your own home usually, people can be pretty lax about this rule and, while most of the time it's not an issue, when it is an issue it is probably good to have this prepared in advance.
There are a few other rules I use depending on the context- physical tables, online platforms, theater of the mind or battle mapped, etc. However, I think these six rules are good fundamentals for most tables. Obviously, there are others - in Discord games I usually configure the server to limit one channel for rolling, one channel for campaign related posts, and one for general/out of session posts, for example. However, those are more along the line of personal preference than fundamentals of making sure everyone has a good time. Obviously, different player bases might call for some revision, but I think this is pretty much what my code would be if it was truly generic.
I use Discord with Avrae for online games, using Astral for my tabletop (and only for tokens and maps, not character sheets) since it's easy to whip up maps in. I used Roll20 a long time ago, but I haven't kept up to see if it's as convenient as Astral is.
@SquireZed: Thank you. You've given me a lot to think about. I haven't run into these problems yet, but it's good to know they are out there. We have a Library Code of Conduct, that covers some of what you mention. It's worth thinking about adding some more specifics for this sort of game. Thanks again.